Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses

And we also have many juveniles shifted up to Adult Courts for what formerly
might have been considered pranks.

All part and parcel of the Criminalize the family, and Permit the child to get
away with outrageous behavior.

Schools are increasingly summoning the police. Not so nice to see little
Johnny led out of school in handcuffs, nor for parents to face the legal bills.

Ho hum.......When will folks learn? Courts have ruled repeatedly that fit
parents are presumed to act IN THEIR CHILD'S BEST INTERESTS.


Subject: Arresting Unruly Students
From: (Mr Munyan)
Date: 1/4/2004 6:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:




ARRESTING UNRULY STUDENTS


Greetings:

Now is the time for all good educators to read the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/education/04TOLE.html

If your browser will not allow you to access this site, then the following is a
cut and pasted text version:
__________________________________________________ ____

Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention SARA RIMER, The New York Times
TOLEDO, Ohio (Jan. 3) --

The 14-year-old girl arrived at school here on Oct. 17 wearing a low-cut
midriff top under an unbuttoned sweater. It was a clear violation of the dress
code, and school officials gave her a bowling shirt to put on. She refused.

Her mother came to the school with an oversize T-shirt. She refused to wear
that, too. "It was real ugly," said the girl, whose mother did not want her to
be identified.

It was a standoff. So the city police officer assigned to the school handcuffed
the girl, put her in a police car and took her to the detention center at the
Lucas County juvenile courthouse. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge and
placed in a holding cell for several hours, until her mother, a 34-year-old
vending machine technician, got off work and picked her up.

She was one of more than two dozen students in Toledo who were arrested in
school in October for offenses like being loud and disruptive, cursing at
school officials, shouting at classmates and violating the dress code. They had
all violated the city's safe school ordinance.

In cities and suburbs around the country, schools are increasingly sending
students into the juvenile justice system for the sort of adolescent
misbehavior that used to be handled by school administrators. In Toledo and
many other places, the juvenile detention center has become an extension of the
principal's office.

School officials say they have little choice. "The goal is not to put kids out,
but to maintain classrooms free of disruptions that make it impossible for
teachers to teach and kids to learn," said Jane Bruss, the spokeswoman for the
Toledo public schowho is concerned about the rise in school-related cases.

There were 1,727 such cases in Lucas County in 2002, up from 1,237 in 2000.
Fred Whitman, the court's intake officer, said that only a handful of cases -
perhaps 2 percent - were for serious i by student misconduct cases that should
be handled in the schools.

Although few statistics are available, anecdotal evidence suggests that such
cases are on the rise. "Everybody agreed - no matter what side of the system
they're from - that they are seeing increasing numbers of kids coming to court
for school-based offenses," said Andy Block, who assisted in a 2001 study of
Virginia's juvenile justice system by the American Bar Association's Juvenile
Defender Center. "All the professionals in the court system were very resentful
of this. They felt they were being handed problems and students that the
schools were better equipped to address."

According to an analysis of school arrest data by the Advancement Project, a
civil rights advocacy group in Washington, there were 2,345 juvenile arrests in
2001 in public schools in Miami-Dade County, Fla., nearly three times as many
as in 1999. Sixty percent, the project said, were for "simple assaults" -
fights that did not involve weapons -and "miscellaneous" charges, including
disorderly conduct.

Many of the court cases around the country involve special-education students
whose behavior is often related to their disabilities, Mr. Block and others
say.

In an elementary school in northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8-year-old boy in a
special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for his
behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor, throwing his shoes at the
ceiling and telling a teacher, "Kids rule."

"Teachers and school administrators know now that they can shift these kids
into juvenile court," said Marsha Levick, legal director for the Juvenile Law
Center of Philadelphia, which is representing the boy and has asked that the
charges be dismissed. "The culture has shifted. Juvenile court is seen as an
antidote for all sorts of behavior that in the past resulted in time out or
suspension."
__________________________________________________ ___

Yessiree.

If students can now be arrested for disobeying their dress codes, then they
sure as hell can be arrested for disobeying their uniform policies. As a long
time supporter of mandatory uniform policies, this is some of the best news
I've heard in a long time and certainly a step in the right direction.

Let's be honest. Any student who deliberately disobeys a mandatory school
dress code or uniform policy is guilty of opposition to authority and
insubordination.

Any student who displays such behavior is being disruptive to the school
setting. If a student persists in such behavior after one simple warning, then
that student deserves to be arrested on the spot, handcuffed, and taken to
either a jail or a detention facility. Give them a trial and some time behind
bars if they are found guilty.

The same thing goes for all other school misbehavior too. Any form of chronic
school or classroom disruption, opposition to authority, disrespect to any
school
employee, or any other rule violation should be automatic grounds for the same
consequences as well.

While we're at it, let's slap a hefty fine on the parents too. Maybe if the
parents knew for certain that they will be fined for the misbehavior of their
precious little prima donnas, then maybe they would take more responsibility
for the parenting responsibilities and teach them the sanctity of school
authority.

This may sound harsh, but it's way past time to stop mollycoddling all these
snot nosed punks, who are running roughshod over their schools and classrooms
today, as well as the spineless limp wristed parents who let them to get away
with it.

The sad reality of today is that punishments such as after-school detentions
and ISS assignments very seldom work anymore and are hard to enforce. It's
time to get tough.

I don't think I would have to sing this tune if we still had the paddle as a
standard utility device in every classroom and a nationwide corps of teachers
who had the guts and know how to use it. But we don't.

Therefore, we have to look at some other alternatives. If we are not allowed
to give them a good whipping, then I can't think of a better one than some
mandatory jail time.

If I were President Bush, I would seriously consider placing the Department of
Education under the direct authority of the Department of Justice and invite
Attorney General John Ashcroft to be in charge.

He's already doing a hell of a job keeping our terrorists in line, and I think
he can do likewise with the snot nosed punks who are terrorizing our public
schools. Then I would expand his budget and let him hire as many assistants he
needs to do the job.

The bottom line is that it's high time to enlist the assistance of our federal
government and local law enforcement agencies to bring back order and
discipline back to our nation's public schools.

Very Sincerely,

Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.

BTW, I can already anticipate L's stereotyped response to such a posting.

She asks ridiculous baiting questions such as "Do you support paddling,
whipping, etc. of children."

Her only response. Predictable...

And she's a teacher??

Wait and see or gather and surmise.

chuckle

Article for NY Times reveals:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 1/6/2004 9:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

And we also have many juveniles shifted up to Adult Courts for what formerly
might have been considered pranks.

All part and parcel of the Criminalize the family, and Permit the child to
get
away with outrageous behavior.

Schools are increasingly summoning the police. Not so nice to see little
Johnny led out of school in handcuffs, nor for parents to face the legal
bills.

Ho hum.......When will folks learn? Courts have ruled repeatedly that fit
parents are presumed to act IN THEIR CHILD'S BEST INTERESTS.


Subject: Arresting Unruly Students
From: (Mr Munyan)
Date: 1/4/2004 6:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:




ARRESTING UNRULY STUDENTS


Greetings:

Now is the time for all good educators to read the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/education/04TOLE.html

If your browser will not allow you to access this site, then the following is
a
cut and pasted text version:
_________________________________________________ _____

Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention SARA RIMER, The New York Times
TOLEDO, Ohio (Jan. 3) --

The 14-year-old girl arrived at school here on Oct. 17 wearing a low-cut
midriff top under an unbuttoned sweater. It was a clear violation of the
dress
code, and school officials gave her a bowling shirt to put on. She refused.

Her mother came to the school with an oversize T-shirt. She refused to wear
that, too. "It was real ugly," said the girl, whose mother did not want her
to
be identified.

It was a standoff. So the city police officer assigned to the school
handcuffed
the girl, put her in a police car and took her to the detention center at the
Lucas County juvenile courthouse. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge and
placed in a holding cell for several hours, until her mother, a 34-year-old
vending machine technician, got off work and picked her up.

She was one of more than two dozen students in Toledo who were arrested in
school in October for offenses like being loud and disruptive, cursing at
school officials, shouting at classmates and violating the dress code. They
had
all violated the city's safe school ordinance.

In cities and suburbs around the country, schools are increasingly sending
students into the juvenile justice system for the sort of adolescent
misbehavior that used to be handled by school administrators. In Toledo and
many other places, the juvenile detention center has become an extension of
the
principal's office.

School officials say they have little choice. "The goal is not to put kids
out,
but to maintain classrooms free of disruptions that make it impossible for
teachers to teach and kids to learn," said Jane Bruss, the spokeswoman for
the
Toledo public schowho is concerned about the rise in school-related cases.

There were 1,727 such cases in Lucas County in 2002, up from 1,237 in 2000.
Fred Whitman, the court's intake officer, said that only a handful of cases -
perhaps 2 percent - were for serious i by student misconduct cases that
should
be handled in the schools.

Although few statistics are available, anecdotal evidence suggests that such
cases are on the rise. "Everybody agreed - no matter what side of the system
they're from - that they are seeing increasing numbers of kids coming to
court
for school-based offenses," said Andy Block, who assisted in a 2001 study of
Virginia's juvenile justice system by the American Bar Association's Juvenile
Defender Center. "All the professionals in the court system were very
resentful
of this. They felt they were being handed problems and students that the
schools were better equipped to address."

According to an analysis of school arrest data by the Advancement Project, a
civil rights advocacy group in Washington, there were 2,345 juvenile arrests
in
2001 in public schools in Miami-Dade County, Fla., nearly three times as many
as in 1999. Sixty percent, the project said, were for "simple assaults" -
fights that did not involve weapons -and "miscellaneous" charges, including
disorderly conduct.

Many of the court cases around the country involve special-education students
whose behavior is often related to their disabilities, Mr. Block and others
say.

In an elementary school in northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8-year-old boy in a
special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for his
behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor, throwing his shoes at
the
ceiling and telling a teacher, "Kids rule."

"Teachers and school administrators know now that they can shift these kids
into juvenile court," said Marsha Levick, legal director for the Juvenile Law
Center of Philadelphia, which is representing the boy and has asked that the
charges be dismissed. "The culture has shifted. Juvenile court is seen as an
antidote for all sorts of behavior that in the past resulted in time out or
suspension."
_________________________________________________ ____

Yessiree.

If students can now be arrested for disobeying their dress codes, then they
sure as hell can be arrested for disobeying their uniform policies. As a
long
time supporter of mandatory uniform policies, this is some of the best news
I've heard in a long time and certainly a step in the right direction.

Let's be honest. Any student who deliberately disobeys a mandatory school
dress code or uniform policy is guilty of opposition to authority and
insubordination.

Any student who displays such behavior is being disruptive to the school
setting. If a student persists in such behavior after one simple warning,
then
that student deserves to be arrested on the spot, handcuffed, and taken to
either a jail or a detention facility. Give them a trial and some time
behind
bars if they are found guilty.

The same thing goes for all other school misbehavior too. Any form of
chronic
school or classroom disruption, opposition to authority, disrespect to any
school
employee, or any other rule violation should be automatic grounds for the
same
consequences as well.

While we're at it, let's slap a hefty fine on the parents too. Maybe if the
parents knew for certain that they will be fined for the misbehavior of their
precious little prima donnas, then maybe they would take more responsibility
for the parenting responsibilities and teach them the sanctity of school
authority.

This may sound harsh, but it's way past time to stop mollycoddling all these
snot nosed punks, who are running roughshod over their schools and classrooms
today, as well as the spineless limp wristed parents who let them to get away
with it.

The sad reality of today is that punishments such as after-school detentions
and ISS assignments very seldom work anymore and are hard to enforce. It's
time to get tough.

I don't think I would have to sing this tune if we still had the paddle as a
standard utility device in every classroom and a nationwide corps of teachers
who had the guts and know how to use it. But we don't.

Therefore, we have to look at some other alternatives. If we are not
allowed
to give them a good whipping, then I can't think of a better one than some
mandatory jail time.

If I were President Bush, I would seriously consider placing the Department
of
Education under the direct authority of the Department of Justice and invite
Attorney General John Ashcroft to be in charge.

He's already doing a hell of a job keeping our terrorists in line, and I
think
he can do likewise with the snot nosed punks who are terrorizing our public
schools. Then I would expand his budget and let him hire as many assistants
he
needs to do the job.

The bottom line is that it's high time to enlist the assistance of our
federal
government and local law enforcement agencies to bring back order and
discipline back to our nation's public schools.

Very Sincerely,

Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.

(Fern5827) wrote in message ...
BTW, I can already anticipate L's stereotyped response to such a posting.

Why would "L" respond at all?

It's OT in this ng.

She asks ridiculous baiting questions such as "Do you support paddling,
whipping, etc. of children."

I'll go her one better. I KNOW you support paddling and whipping of
children, so I needn't ask. You've posted it here, and you are now
doing it again with your silly game in hopes to stave off the
inevitable....YOU being exposed for the filthy child and family hating
**** you are.


Her only response. Predictable...

Her "only response?" I don't think so.

And she's a teacher??

Wait and see or gather and surmise.

chuckle

Nice try Tarragon, but you won't get out of being responsible for who
and what you a a vicious, nasty, thoughtless, stupid pile of filth.

What you seem to forget when you post something such as this to aps is
that your cohorts have posted many times that 90% or more of parents
spank. Where do you think these angry out of control teens come from
anyway?

My kids, and those of hundreds of families I know that don't use CP
never had such problems with their children.

It's you spanking yahoos that produce these children. And your only
solution: CP.

Kane



Article for NY Times reveals:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 1/6/2004 9:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

And we also have many juveniles shifted up to Adult Courts for what formerly
might have been considered pranks.

All part and parcel of the Criminalize the family, and Permit the child to
get
away with outrageous behavior.

Schools are increasingly summoning the police. Not so nice to see little
Johnny led out of school in handcuffs, nor for parents to face the legal
bills.

Ho hum.......When will folks learn? Courts have ruled repeatedly that fit
parents are presumed to act IN THEIR CHILD'S BEST INTERESTS.


Subject: Arresting Unruly Students
From: (Mr Munyan)
Date: 1/4/2004 6:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:




ARRESTING UNRULY STUDENTS


Greetings:

Now is the time for all good educators to read the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/education/04TOLE.html

If your browser will not allow you to access this site, then the following is
a
cut and pasted text version:
_________________________________________________ _____

Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention SARA RIMER, The New York Times
TOLEDO, Ohio (Jan. 3) --

The 14-year-old girl arrived at school here on Oct. 17 wearing a low-cut
midriff top under an unbuttoned sweater. It was a clear violation of the
dress
code, and school officials gave her a bowling shirt to put on. She refused.

Her mother came to the school with an oversize T-shirt. She refused to wear
that, too. "It was real ugly," said the girl, whose mother did not want her
to
be identified.

It was a standoff. So the city police officer assigned to the school
handcuffed
the girl, put her in a police car and took her to the detention center at the
Lucas County juvenile courthouse. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge and
placed in a holding cell for several hours, until her mother, a 34-year-old
vending machine technician, got off work and picked her up.

She was one of more than two dozen students in Toledo who were arrested in
school in October for offenses like being loud and disruptive, cursing at
school officials, shouting at classmates and violating the dress code. They
had
all violated the city's safe school ordinance.

In cities and suburbs around the country, schools are increasingly sending
students into the juvenile justice system for the sort of adolescent
misbehavior that used to be handled by school administrators. In Toledo and
many other places, the juvenile detention center has become an extension of
the
principal's office.

School officials say they have little choice. "The goal is not to put kids
out,
but to maintain classrooms free of disruptions that make it impossible for
teachers to teach and kids to learn," said Jane Bruss, the spokeswoman for
the
Toledo public schowho is concerned about the rise in school-related cases.

There were 1,727 such cases in Lucas County in 2002, up from 1,237 in 2000.
Fred Whitman, the court's intake officer, said that only a handful of cases -
perhaps 2 percent - were for serious i by student misconduct cases that
should
be handled in the schools.

Although few statistics are available, anecdotal evidence suggests that such
cases are on the rise. "Everybody agreed - no matter what side of the system
they're from - that they are seeing increasing numbers of kids coming to
court
for school-based offenses," said Andy Block, who assisted in a 2001 study of
Virginia's juvenile justice system by the American Bar Association's Juvenile
Defender Center. "All the professionals in the court system were very
resentful
of this. They felt they were being handed problems and students that the
schools were better equipped to address."

According to an analysis of school arrest data by the Advancement Project, a
civil rights advocacy group in Washington, there were 2,345 juvenile arrests
in
2001 in public schools in Miami-Dade County, Fla., nearly three times as many
as in 1999. Sixty percent, the project said, were for "simple assaults" -
fights that did not involve weapons -and "miscellaneous" charges, including
disorderly conduct.

Many of the court cases around the country involve special-education students
whose behavior is often related to their disabilities, Mr. Block and others
say.

In an elementary school in northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8-year-old boy in a
special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for his
behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor, throwing his shoes at
the
ceiling and telling a teacher, "Kids rule."

"Teachers and school administrators know now that they can shift these kids
into juvenile court," said Marsha Levick, legal director for the Juvenile Law
Center of Philadelphia, which is representing the boy and has asked that the
charges be dismissed. "The culture has shifted. Juvenile court is seen as an
antidote for all sorts of behavior that in the past resulted in time out or
suspension."
_________________________________________________ ____

Yessiree.

If students can now be arrested for disobeying their dress codes, then they
sure as hell can be arrested for disobeying their uniform policies. As a
long
time supporter of mandatory uniform policies, this is some of the best news
I've heard in a long time and certainly a step in the right direction.

Let's be honest. Any student who deliberately disobeys a mandatory school
dress code or uniform policy is guilty of opposition to authority and
insubordination.

Any student who displays such behavior is being disruptive to the school
setting. If a student persists in such behavior after one simple warning,
then
that student deserves to be arrested on the spot, handcuffed, and taken to
either a jail or a detention facility. Give them a trial and some time
behind
bars if they are found guilty.

The same thing goes for all other school misbehavior too. Any form of
chronic
school or classroom disruption, opposition to authority, disrespect to any
school
employee, or any other rule violation should be automatic grounds for the
same
consequences as well.

While we're at it, let's slap a hefty fine on the parents too. Maybe if the
parents knew for certain that they will be fined for the misbehavior of their
precious little prima donnas, then maybe they would take more responsibility
for the parenting responsibilities and teach them the sanctity of school
authority.

This may sound harsh, but it's way past time to stop mollycoddling all these
snot nosed punks, who are running roughshod over their schools and classrooms
today, as well as the spineless limp wristed parents who let them to get away
with it.

The sad reality of today is that punishments such as after-school detentions
and ISS assignments very seldom work anymore and are hard to enforce. It's
time to get tough.

I don't think I would have to sing this tune if we still had the paddle as a
standard utility device in every classroom and a nationwide corps of teachers
who had the guts and know how to use it. But we don't.

Therefore, we have to look at some other alternatives. If we are not
allowed
to give them a good whipping, then I can't think of a better one than some
mandatory jail time.

If I were President Bush, I would seriously consider placing the Department
of
Education under the direct authority of the Department of Justice and invite
Attorney General John Ashcroft to be in charge.

He's already doing a hell of a job keeping our terrorists in line, and I
think
he can do likewise with the snot nosed punks who are terrorizing our public
schools. Then I would expand his budget and let him hire as many assistants
he
needs to do the job.

The bottom line is that it's high time to enlist the assistance of our
federal
government and local law enforcement agencies to bring back order and
discipline back to our nation's public schools.

Very Sincerely,

Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.

Kane has some problems with violent, abusive verbiage, impulse control, and
anger management.

You just proved my case. Thank you for the public airing of your hostile,
harassing remarks.

Kane has many enemies on many NG's:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Kane)
Date: 1/6/2004 10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(Fern5827) wrote in message
...
BTW, I can already anticipate L's stereotyped response to such a posting.

Why would "L" respond at all?

It's OT in this ng.

She asks ridiculous baiting questions such as "Do you support paddling,
whipping, etc. of children."

I'll go her one better. I KNOW you support paddling and whipping of
children, so I needn't ask. You've posted it here, and you are now
doing it again with your silly game in hopes to stave off the
inevitable....YOU being exposed for the filthy child and family hating
**** you are.


Her only response. Predictable...

Her "only response?" I don't think so.

And she's a teacher??

Wait and see or gather and surmise.

chuckle

Nice try Tarragon, but you won't get out of being responsible for who
and what you a a vicious, nasty, thoughtless, stupid pile of filth.

What you seem to forget when you post something such as this to aps is
that your cohorts have posted many times that 90% or more of parents
spank. Where do you think these angry out of control teens come from
anyway?

My kids, and those of hundreds of families I know that don't use CP
never had such problems with their children.

It's you spanking yahoos that produce these children. And your only
solution: CP.

Kane



Article for NY Times reveals:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 1/6/2004 9:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

And we also have many juveniles shifted up to Adult Courts for what
formerly
might have been considered pranks.

All part and parcel of the Criminalize the family, and Permit the child to
get
away with outrageous behavior.

Schools are increasingly summoning the police. Not so nice to see little
Johnny led out of school in handcuffs, nor for parents to face the legal
bills.

Ho hum.......When will folks learn? Courts have ruled repeatedly that fit
parents are presumed to act IN THEIR CHILD'S BEST INTERESTS.


Subject: Arresting Unruly Students
From: (Mr Munyan)
Date: 1/4/2004 6:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:




ARRESTING UNRULY STUDENTS


Greetings:

Now is the time for all good educators to read the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/education/04TOLE.html

If your browser will not allow you to access this site, then the following
is
a
cut and pasted text version:
_________________________________________________ _____

Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention SARA RIMER, The New York
Times
TOLEDO, Ohio (Jan. 3) --

The 14-year-old girl arrived at school here on Oct. 17 wearing a low-cut
midriff top under an unbuttoned sweater. It was a clear violation of the
dress
code, and school officials gave her a bowling shirt to put on. She
refused.

Her mother came to the school with an oversize T-shirt. She refused to
wear
that, too. "It was real ugly," said the girl, whose mother did not want
her
to
be identified.

It was a standoff. So the city police officer assigned to the school
handcuffed
the girl, put her in a police car and took her to the detention center at
the
Lucas County juvenile courthouse. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge
and
placed in a holding cell for several hours, until her mother, a
34-year-old
vending machine technician, got off work and picked her up.

She was one of more than two dozen students in Toledo who were arrested in
school in October for offenses like being loud and disruptive, cursing at
school officials, shouting at classmates and violating the dress code.
They
had
all violated the city's safe school ordinance.

In cities and suburbs around the country, schools are increasingly sending
students into the juvenile justice system for the sort of adolescent
misbehavior that used to be handled by school administrators. In Toledo
and
many other places, the juvenile detention center has become an extension
of
the
principal's office.

School officials say they have little choice. "The goal is not to put kids
out,
but to maintain classrooms free of disruptions that make it impossible for
teachers to teach and kids to learn," said Jane Bruss, the spokeswoman for
the
Toledo public schowho is concerned about the rise in school-related cases.

There were 1,727 such cases in Lucas County in 2002, up from 1,237 in
2000.
Fred Whitman, the court's intake officer, said that only a handful of
cases -
perhaps 2 percent - were for serious i by student misconduct cases that
should
be handled in the schools.

Although few statistics are available, anecdotal evidence suggests that
such
cases are on the rise. "Everybody agreed - no matter what side of the
system
they're from - that they are seeing increasing numbers of kids coming to
court
for school-based offenses," said Andy Block, who assisted in a 2001 study
of
Virginia's juvenile justice system by the American Bar Association's
Juvenile
Defender Center. "All the professionals in the court system were very
resentful
of this. They felt they were being handed problems and students that the
schools were better equipped to address."

According to an analysis of school arrest data by the Advancement Project,
a
civil rights advocacy group in Washington, there were 2,345 juvenile
arrests
in
2001 in public schools in Miami-Dade County, Fla., nearly three times as
many
as in 1999. Sixty percent, the project said, were for "simple assaults" -
fights that did not involve weapons -and "miscellaneous" charges,
including
disorderly conduct.

Many of the court cases around the country involve special-education
students
whose behavior is often related to their disabilities, Mr. Block and
others
say.

In an elementary school in northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8-year-old boy in
a
special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for
his
behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor, throwing his shoes at
the
ceiling and telling a teacher, "Kids rule."

"Teachers and school administrators know now that they can shift these
kids
into juvenile court," said Marsha Levick, legal director for the Juvenile
Law
Center of Philadelphia, which is representing the boy and has asked that
the
charges be dismissed. "The culture has shifted. Juvenile court is seen as
an
antidote for all sorts of behavior that in the past resulted in time out
or
suspension."
_________________________________________________ ____

Yessiree.

If students can now be arrested for disobeying their dress codes, then
they
sure as hell can be arrested for disobeying their uniform policies. As a
long
time supporter of mandatory uniform policies, this is some of the best
news
I've heard in a long time and certainly a step in the right direction.

Let's be honest. Any student who deliberately disobeys a mandatory school
dress code or uniform policy is guilty of opposition to authority and
insubordination.

Any student who displays such behavior is being disruptive to the school
setting. If a student persists in such behavior after one simple warning,
then
that student deserves to be arrested on the spot, handcuffed, and taken to
either a jail or a detention facility. Give them a trial and some time
behind
bars if they are found guilty.

The same thing goes for all other school misbehavior too. Any form of
chronic
school or classroom disruption, opposition to authority, disrespect to any
school
employee, or any other rule violation should be automatic grounds for the
same
consequences as well.

While we're at it, let's slap a hefty fine on the parents too. Maybe if
the
parents knew for certain that they will be fined for the misbehavior of
their
precious little prima donnas, then maybe they would take more
responsibility
for the parenting responsibilities and teach them the sanctity of school
authority.

This may sound harsh, but it's way past time to stop mollycoddling all
these
snot nosed punks, who are running roughshod over their schools and
classrooms
today, as well as the spineless limp wristed parents who let them to get
away
with it.

The sad reality of today is that punishments such as after-school
detentions
and ISS assignments very seldom work anymore and are hard to enforce.
It's
time to get tough.

I don't think I would have to sing this tune if we still had the paddle as
a
standard utility device in every classroom and a nationwide corps of
teachers
who had the guts and know how to use it. But we don't.

Therefore, we have to look at some other alternatives. If we are not
allowed
to give them a good whipping, then I can't think of a better one than some
mandatory jail time.

If I were President Bush, I would seriously consider placing the
Department
of
Education under the direct authority of the Department of Justice and
invite
Attorney General John Ashcroft to be in charge.

He's already doing a hell of a job keeping our terrorists in line, and I
think
he can do likewise with the snot nosed punks who are terrorizing our
public
schools. Then I would expand his budget and let him hire as many
assistants
he
needs to do the job.

The bottom line is that it's high time to enlist the assistance of our
federal
government and local law enforcement agencies to bring back order and
discipline back to our nation's public schools.

Very Sincerely,

Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.

He is also a "never-spanked" boy! ;-) It is useful to have him argue
for the anti-spanking zealotS' side.

Doan

On 7 Jan 2004, Fern5827 wrote:

Kane has some problems with violent, abusive verbiage, impulse control, and
anger management.

You just proved my case. Thank you for the public airing of your hostile,
harassing remarks.

Kane has many enemies on many NG's:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Kane)
Date: 1/6/2004 10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(Fern5827) wrote in message
...
BTW, I can already anticipate L's stereotyped response to such a posting.

Why would "L" respond at all?

It's OT in this ng.

She asks ridiculous baiting questions such as "Do you support paddling,
whipping, etc. of children."

I'll go her one better. I KNOW you support paddling and whipping of
children, so I needn't ask. You've posted it here, and you are now
doing it again with your silly game in hopes to stave off the
inevitable....YOU being exposed for the filthy child and family hating
**** you are.


Her only response. Predictable...

Her "only response?" I don't think so.

And she's a teacher??

Wait and see or gather and surmise.

chuckle

Nice try Tarragon, but you won't get out of being responsible for who
and what you a a vicious, nasty, thoughtless, stupid pile of filth.

What you seem to forget when you post something such as this to aps is
that your cohorts have posted many times that 90% or more of parents
spank. Where do you think these angry out of control teens come from
anyway?

My kids, and those of hundreds of families I know that don't use CP
never had such problems with their children.

It's you spanking yahoos that produce these children. And your only
solution: CP.

Kane



Article for NY Times reveals:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 1/6/2004 9:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

And we also have many juveniles shifted up to Adult Courts for what
formerly
might have been considered pranks.

All part and parcel of the Criminalize the family, and Permit the child to
get
away with outrageous behavior.

Schools are increasingly summoning the police. Not so nice to see little
Johnny led out of school in handcuffs, nor for parents to face the legal
bills.

Ho hum.......When will folks learn? Courts have ruled repeatedly that fit
parents are presumed to act IN THEIR CHILD'S BEST INTERESTS.


Subject: Arresting Unruly Students
From: (Mr Munyan)
Date: 1/4/2004 6:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:




ARRESTING UNRULY STUDENTS


Greetings:

Now is the time for all good educators to read the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/education/04TOLE.html

If your browser will not allow you to access this site, then the following
is
a
cut and pasted text version:
_________________________________________________ _____

Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention SARA RIMER, The New York
Times
TOLEDO, Ohio (Jan. 3) --

The 14-year-old girl arrived at school here on Oct. 17 wearing a low-cut
midriff top under an unbuttoned sweater. It was a clear violation of the
dress
code, and school officials gave her a bowling shirt to put on. She
refused.

Her mother came to the school with an oversize T-shirt. She refused to
wear
that, too. "It was real ugly," said the girl, whose mother did not want
her
to
be identified.

It was a standoff. So the city police officer assigned to the school
handcuffed
the girl, put her in a police car and took her to the detention center at
the
Lucas County juvenile courthouse. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge
and
placed in a holding cell for several hours, until her mother, a
34-year-old
vending machine technician, got off work and picked her up.

She was one of more than two dozen students in Toledo who were arrested in
school in October for offenses like being loud and disruptive, cursing at
school officials, shouting at classmates and violating the dress code.
They
had
all violated the city's safe school ordinance.

In cities and suburbs around the country, schools are increasingly sending
students into the juvenile justice system for the sort of adolescent
misbehavior that used to be handled by school administrators. In Toledo
and
many other places, the juvenile detention center has become an extension
of
the
principal's office.

School officials say they have little choice. "The goal is not to put kids
out,
but to maintain classrooms free of disruptions that make it impossible for
teachers to teach and kids to learn," said Jane Bruss, the spokeswoman for
the
Toledo public schowho is concerned about the rise in school-related cases.

There were 1,727 such cases in Lucas County in 2002, up from 1,237 in
2000.
Fred Whitman, the court's intake officer, said that only a handful of
cases -
perhaps 2 percent - were for serious i by student misconduct cases that
should
be handled in the schools.

Although few statistics are available, anecdotal evidence suggests that
such
cases are on the rise. "Everybody agreed - no matter what side of the
system
they're from - that they are seeing increasing numbers of kids coming to
court
for school-based offenses," said Andy Block, who assisted in a 2001 study
of
Virginia's juvenile justice system by the American Bar Association's
Juvenile
Defender Center. "All the professionals in the court system were very
resentful
of this. They felt they were being handed problems and students that the
schools were better equipped to address."

According to an analysis of school arrest data by the Advancement Project,
a
civil rights advocacy group in Washington, there were 2,345 juvenile
arrests
in
2001 in public schools in Miami-Dade County, Fla., nearly three times as
many
as in 1999. Sixty percent, the project said, were for "simple assaults" -
fights that did not involve weapons -and "miscellaneous" charges,
including
disorderly conduct.

Many of the court cases around the country involve special-education
students
whose behavior is often related to their disabilities, Mr. Block and
others
say.

In an elementary school in northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8-year-old boy in
a
special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for
his
behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor, throwing his shoes at
the
ceiling and telling a teacher, "Kids rule."

"Teachers and school administrators know now that they can shift these
kids
into juvenile court," said Marsha Levick, legal director for the Juvenile
Law
Center of Philadelphia, which is representing the boy and has asked that
the
charges be dismissed. "The culture has shifted. Juvenile court is seen as
an
antidote for all sorts of behavior that in the past resulted in time out
or
suspension."
_________________________________________________ ____

Yessiree.

If students can now be arrested for disobeying their dress codes, then
they
sure as hell can be arrested for disobeying their uniform policies. As a
long
time supporter of mandatory uniform policies, this is some of the best
news
I've heard in a long time and certainly a step in the right direction.

Let's be honest. Any student who deliberately disobeys a mandatory school
dress code or uniform policy is guilty of opposition to authority and
insubordination.

Any student who displays such behavior is being disruptive to the school
setting. If a student persists in such behavior after one simple warning,
then
that student deserves to be arrested on the spot, handcuffed, and taken to
either a jail or a detention facility. Give them a trial and some time
behind
bars if they are found guilty.

The same thing goes for all other school misbehavior too. Any form of
chronic
school or classroom disruption, opposition to authority, disrespect to any
school
employee, or any other rule violation should be automatic grounds for the
same
consequences as well.

While we're at it, let's slap a hefty fine on the parents too. Maybe if
the
parents knew for certain that they will be fined for the misbehavior of
their
precious little prima donnas, then maybe they would take more
responsibility
for the parenting responsibilities and teach them the sanctity of school
authority.

This may sound harsh, but it's way past time to stop mollycoddling all
these
snot nosed punks, who are running roughshod over their schools and
classrooms
today, as well as the spineless limp wristed parents who let them to get
away
with it.

The sad reality of today is that punishments such as after-school
detentions
and ISS assignments very seldom work anymore and are hard to enforce.
It's
time to get tough.

I don't think I would have to sing this tune if we still had the paddle as
a
standard utility device in every classroom and a nationwide corps of
teachers
who had the guts and know how to use it. But we don't.

Therefore, we have to look at some other alternatives. If we are not
allowed
to give them a good whipping, then I can't think of a better one than some
mandatory jail time.

If I were President Bush, I would seriously consider placing the
Department
of
Education under the direct authority of the Department of Justice and
invite
Attorney General John Ashcroft to be in charge.

He's already doing a hell of a job keeping our terrorists in line, and I
think
he can do likewise with the snot nosed punks who are terrorizing our
public
schools. Then I would expand his budget and let him hire as many
assistants
he
needs to do the job.

The bottom line is that it's high time to enlist the assistance of our
federal
government and local law enforcement agencies to bring back order and
discipline back to our nation's public schools.

Very Sincerely,

Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.

(Fern5827) wrote in message ...
Kane has some problems with violent, abusive verbiage, impulse control, and
anger management.

Kane has no such problems. He uses the language and this forum to
expose evil.

YOU and those like you: Gigolos that torture children and rip them
away from their mother then sit idly by interfering with any attempts
by the mother to get her child returned; Plantlife that hate children
and loving families so much It argues in favor of beatings by family's
church; Lying advocates of abusive thoughtless child beating under the
guise of neutrality.

You just proved my case. Thank you for the public airing of your hostile,
harassing remarks.

I have that. And I do that. I'm am HAPPY, OVERJOYED in fact that you
recognize it. Now you just have to tell the truth about YOU, Yew.

Kane has many enemies on many NG's:

I relish them nearly as much as I do my friends and supporters.

"So, are you going to respond to my statement:

What you seem to forget when you post something such as this to aps is
that your cohorts have posted many times that 90% or more of parents
spank. Where do you think these angry out of control teens come from
anyway?

My kids, and those of hundreds of families I know that don't use CP
never had such problems with their children.

It's you spanking yahoos that produce these children. And your only
solution: CP."

So Silage, what is YOUR solution?

What you accuse (with no comment actually made by L at all) another of
claiming you support?

Well, tell us....do you NOT support spanking as a parenting skill?

And if so how is it that there are all these angry out of control
teens?

90% of them have to have been spanked, or are you prepared to prove
that only the unspanked children were the acting out teens?

R R R R

You are a sorry Wilted bunch of Weeds, the lot of you.

Kane


Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Kane)
Date: 1/6/2004 10:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(Fern5827) wrote in message
...
BTW, I can already anticipate L's stereotyped response to such a posting.

Why would "L" respond at all?

It's OT in this ng.

She asks ridiculous baiting questions such as "Do you support paddling,
whipping, etc. of children."

I'll go her one better. I KNOW you support paddling and whipping of
children, so I needn't ask. You've posted it here, and you are now
doing it again with your silly game in hopes to stave off the
inevitable....YOU being exposed for the filthy child and family hating
**** you are.


Her only response. Predictable...

Her "only response?" I don't think so.

And she's a teacher??

Wait and see or gather and surmise.

chuckle

Nice try Tarragon, but you won't get out of being responsible for who
and what you a a vicious, nasty, thoughtless, stupid pile of filth.

What you seem to forget when you post something such as this to aps is
that your cohorts have posted many times that 90% or more of parents
spank. Where do you think these angry out of control teens come from
anyway?

My kids, and those of hundreds of families I know that don't use CP
never had such problems with their children.

It's you spanking yahoos that produce these children. And your only
solution: CP.

Kane



Article for NY Times reveals:

Subject: Students increasingly being arrested for school offenses
From: (Fern5827)
Date: 1/6/2004 9:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

And we also have many juveniles shifted up to Adult Courts for what
formerly
might have been considered pranks.

All part and parcel of the Criminalize the family, and Permit the child to
get
away with outrageous behavior.

Schools are increasingly summoning the police. Not so nice to see little
Johnny led out of school in handcuffs, nor for parents to face the legal
bills.

Ho hum.......When will folks learn? Courts have ruled repeatedly that fit
parents are presumed to act IN THEIR CHILD'S BEST INTERESTS.


Subject: Arresting Unruly Students
From: (Mr Munyan)
Date: 1/4/2004 6:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:




ARRESTING UNRULY STUDENTS


Greetings:

Now is the time for all good educators to read the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/education/04TOLE.html

If your browser will not allow you to access this site, then the following
is
a
cut and pasted text version:
_________________________________________________ _____

Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention SARA RIMER, The New York
Times
TOLEDO, Ohio (Jan. 3) --

The 14-year-old girl arrived at school here on Oct. 17 wearing a low-cut
midriff top under an unbuttoned sweater. It was a clear violation of the
dress
code, and school officials gave her a bowling shirt to put on. She
refused.

Her mother came to the school with an oversize T-shirt. She refused to
wear
that, too. "It was real ugly," said the girl, whose mother did not want
her
to
be identified.

It was a standoff. So the city police officer assigned to the school
handcuffed
the girl, put her in a police car and took her to the detention center at
the
Lucas County juvenile courthouse. She was booked on a misdemeanor charge
and
placed in a holding cell for several hours, until her mother, a
34-year-old
vending machine technician, got off work and picked her up.

She was one of more than two dozen students in Toledo who were arrested in
school in October for offenses like being loud and disruptive, cursing at
school officials, shouting at classmates and violating the dress code.
They
had
all violated the city's safe school ordinance.

In cities and suburbs around the country, schools are increasingly sending
students into the juvenile justice system for the sort of adolescent
misbehavior that used to be handled by school administrators. In Toledo
and
many other places, the juvenile detention center has become an extension
of
the
principal's office.

School officials say they have little choice. "The goal is not to put kids
out,
but to maintain classrooms free of disruptions that make it impossible for
teachers to teach and kids to learn," said Jane Bruss, the spokeswoman for
the
Toledo public schowho is concerned about the rise in school-related cases.

There were 1,727 such cases in Lucas County in 2002, up from 1,237 in
2000.
Fred Whitman, the court's intake officer, said that only a handful of
cases -
perhaps 2 percent - were for serious i by student misconduct cases that
should
be handled in the schools.

Although few statistics are available, anecdotal evidence suggests that
such
cases are on the rise. "Everybody agreed - no matter what side of the
system
they're from - that they are seeing increasing numbers of kids coming to
court
for school-based offenses," said Andy Block, who assisted in a 2001 study
of
Virginia's juvenile justice system by the American Bar Association's
Juvenile
Defender Center. "All the professionals in the court system were very
resentful
of this. They felt they were being handed problems and students that the
schools were better equipped to address."

According to an analysis of school arrest data by the Advancement Project,
a
civil rights advocacy group in Washington, there were 2,345 juvenile
arrests
in
2001 in public schools in Miami-Dade County, Fla., nearly three times as
many
as in 1999. Sixty percent, the project said, were for "simple assaults" -
fights that did not involve weapons -and "miscellaneous" charges,
including
disorderly conduct.

Many of the court cases around the country involve special-education
students
whose behavior is often related to their disabilities, Mr. Block and
others
say.

In an elementary school in northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8-year-old boy in
a
special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for
his
behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor, throwing his shoes at
the
ceiling and telling a teacher, "Kids rule."

"Teachers and school administrators know now that they can shift these
kids
into juvenile court," said Marsha Levick, legal director for the Juvenile
Law
Center of Philadelphia, which is representing the boy and has asked that
the
charges be dismissed. "The culture has shifted. Juvenile court is seen as
an
antidote for all sorts of behavior that in the past resulted in time out
or
suspension."
_________________________________________________ ____

Yessiree.

If students can now be arrested for disobeying their dress codes, then
they
sure as hell can be arrested for disobeying their uniform policies. As a
long
time supporter of mandatory uniform policies, this is some of the best
news
I've heard in a long time and certainly a step in the right direction.

Let's be honest. Any student who deliberately disobeys a mandatory school
dress code or uniform policy is guilty of opposition to authority and
insubordination.

Any student who displays such behavior is being disruptive to the school
setting. If a student persists in such behavior after one simple warning,
then
that student deserves to be arrested on the spot, handcuffed, and taken to
either a jail or a detention facility. Give them a trial and some time
behind
bars if they are found guilty.

The same thing goes for all other school misbehavior too. Any form of
chronic
school or classroom disruption, opposition to authority, disrespect to any
school
employee, or any other rule violation should be automatic grounds for the
same
consequences as well.

While we're at it, let's slap a hefty fine on the parents too. Maybe if
the
parents knew for certain that they will be fined for the misbehavior of
their
precious little prima donnas, then maybe they would take more
responsibility
for the parenting responsibilities and teach them the sanctity of school
authority.

This may sound harsh, but it's way past time to stop mollycoddling all
these
snot nosed punks, who are running roughshod over their schools and
classrooms
today, as well as the spineless limp wristed parents who let them to get
away
with it.

The sad reality of today is that punishments such as after-school
detentions
and ISS assignments very seldom work anymore and are hard to enforce.
It's
time to get tough.

I don't think I would have to sing this tune if we still had the paddle as
a
standard utility device in every classroom and a nationwide corps of
teachers
who had the guts and know how to use it. But we don't.

Therefore, we have to look at some other alternatives. If we are not
allowed
to give them a good whipping, then I can't think of a better one than some
mandatory jail time.

If I were President Bush, I would seriously consider placing the
Department
of
Education under the direct authority of the Department of Justice and
invite
Attorney General John Ashcroft to be in charge.

He's already doing a hell of a job keeping our terrorists in line, and I
think
he can do likewise with the snot nosed punks who are terrorizing our
public
schools. Then I would expand his budget and let him hire as many
assistants
he
needs to do the job.

The bottom line is that it's high time to enlist the assistance of our
federal
government and local law enforcement agencies to bring back order and
discipline back to our nation's public schools.

Very Sincerely,

Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.

He's useful as a foil and as an example of how NOT to behave.

He's been played very well.

(Kane) wrote in message om...
(Fern5827) wrote in message:

Nothing of any substance beyond the usual Sap Flowing through Its
little Cambium Layer.

To which, noting that It didn't respond to the respose to Its claim of
children being so out of control I posted the following:

"So, are you going to respond to my statement:

What you seem to forget when you post something such as this to aps is
that your cohorts have posted many times that 90% or more of parents
spank. Where do you think these angry out of control teens come from
anyway?

My kids, and those of hundreds of families I know that don't use CP
never had such problems with their children.

It's you spanking yahoos that produce these children. And your only
solution: CP."

So Silage, what is YOUR solution?

What you accuse (with no comment actually made by L at all) another of
claiming you support?

Well, tell us....do you NOT support spanking as a parenting skill?

And if so how is it that there are all these angry out of control
teens?

90% of them have to have been spanked, or are you prepared to prove
that only the unspanked children were the acting out teens?

R R R R

You are a sorry Wilted bunch of Weeds, the lot of you.


So there you have it folks, yet another cornered Weasel Vine...just
like the Doananator. Tsk.

When they can't answer a simple question or refute a claim they run or
dance or dodge or grew a new Leaf or two....chuckle

You'd think their parents would have taught them not to do that
publically, wouldn't you?

Put that back in your pants, Fred the Plant. You are embarrassing
yourself.

The Doananator is obviously too young and too often spanked to know
what he is doing so we'll just have to be patient with him...for a
time....R R R RR

Stoneman