The Question

Where the difficulty lies in The Question, how does one clearly and
accurately measure that point where safe "spanking" (as spanking
parents claim) ends and dangerous abuse and risk of harm begin, is
this:

While I and others in this ng have posted reams of information on the
harms of the use of CP, AND even more on how one can go about
parenting successfully without CP, and even without punishment and
humiliation, the pro CP side hasn't been able to come up with more
than a few crackpot nutcase offerings on either the efficacy and
safety of using CP or of parenting WITH pain and humiliation.

This is why Doan is stuck.

The Cargo Cult thinking is overwhelming on the side of the pro CP
folks. The "it's been around for thousands of years" (which can't be
proven of course) coupled with the diatribe parenting methods of
people like James Dobson, and NO answer to the challenge to come up
with anything that can defend the admonishion that parent's must spank
to discipline, is shown to be a crock by the very attempts they make
to point out the harms of NOT spanking: teens run amok, spoiled
children, children harming themselves.

Any close examination of these issues fails on the very facts they
present: that 90+% of families already use CP.

It's not rocket science folks. If you want children that do well in
life, that have a better chance of psychological health, and if you
wish to enjoy a life with your children that is happy and productive
give the alternatives to CP a try.

And of course, as Doan says, make up your own mind...but I add: make
sure you are well informed...not just reacting to how you were raised
or how OTHERS might choose to raise their children.

Here's a page of folks that found out...some the hard way...but seem
to be very happy with the results of giving up spanking:

http://sandradodd.com/spanking

plus more on not spanking...

http://www.stopspanking.com/

http://www.wethechildren.com/

http://www.stophitting.com/

http://www.religioustolerance.org/spanking.htm
(both sides of the issue)

Major Organizations Favoring the Abolition of Corporal Punishment
More than 40 national organizations favor abolition of corporal
punishment. Here are just a few:
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Assoc. for Counseling & Development
American Bar Association
American Humanist Association
American Medical Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
Association of Junior Leagues
Council for Exceptional Children
National Association of Elementary School Principals
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)
National Association of State Boards of Education
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Social Workers
National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse
National Education Association
National Mental Health Association
National Association of School Nurses (NASN)

Finally: Can you say YOU wouldn't injure your child by the use of
Corporal Punishment?

Why risk at all?

Kane

Kane, you barf bag, maybe everybody's just BORED with you?

What is really annoying to him probably is that he vainly posts to Misc kids,
and no one responds.

Crashing, foul-mouthed bore.

Greg writes:

From: (Greg Hanson)
Date: 1/9/2004 7:16 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Kane, you barf bag, maybe everybody's just BORED with you?


Amen. Doan has always advanced arguments with reasoned references to current
psychological studies.

(Fern5827) wrote in message ...
What is really annoying to him probably is that he vainly posts to Misc kids,
and no one responds.

Crashing, foul-mouthed bore.

Greg writes:

From: (Greg Hanson)
Date: 1/9/2004 7:16 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Kane, you barf bag, maybe everybody's just BORED with you?


Amen. Doan has always advanced arguments with reasoned references to current
psychological studies.

Yeah, those "I DARE YOU, I DOUBLE DARE YOU" are impressing us with his
erudite approach to debate.

He also is a wizard at answering simple questions with
exactitude...like "reasonable person standard." R R R R R

That wouldn't even pass as the answer to "how do you know what art
is?"

Yeah, yah got a real catch their, Purslane, a real catch.

More intellect than a Three Story Fallen Watermelon.

You are a batch of stumblebums, the lot of yah.

You make fools of yourselves on a daily basis. No, some do it hourly,
such as you.

Give us some more of your non-attributed, URL free referranced, biased
media, phony balogna anti CPS crusader bull**** will yah. My Dogwood
tree needs a good rich Compost application and you are just the
ticket.

Kane