Ability grouping

Nevermind wrote in :

I know this will be a very unscientific survey, but I'm curious about
how common Erika's school's grouping system (see below) is these days.
Our school doesn't officially do ability grouping -- there is *no*
expectation that the work the kids're doing in reading or math will be
pegged to their individual ability at all, only to their age. It's
one-size-fits-all unless the teacher wants to differentiate on her
own.

How about your kids' elementary schools?

I had understood that ability grouping had become rare in U.S.
elementary schools, but if I'm wrong about that, then our school
district's system is much more vulnerable to criticism and parental
agitation for change.
[snip]

I was astounded by how unusual ability grouping is in the states. Over
here, my kids' schools (they've been to two) both had some kind of ability
grouping for both maths and English for 6yo upwards. The groups are very
fluid. Basically the children have three different places in the classrooms
where they sit: their maths table, their literacy table and their normal
table. The whole class covers the same subject at the same time, but the
expectations are different.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

In article ,
Penny Gaines wrote:

Nevermind wrote in :

I know this will be a very unscientific survey, but I'm curious about
how common Erika's school's grouping system (see below) is these days.
Our school doesn't officially do ability grouping -- there is *no*
expectation that the work the kids're doing in reading or math will be
pegged to their individual ability at all, only to their age. It's
one-size-fits-all unless the teacher wants to differentiate on her
own.

How about your kids' elementary schools?

I had understood that ability grouping had become rare in U.S.
elementary schools, but if I'm wrong about that, then our school
district's system is much more vulnerable to criticism and parental
agitation for change.
[snip]

I was astounded by how unusual ability grouping is in the states. Over
here, my kids' schools (they've been to two) both had some kind of ability
grouping for both maths and English for 6yo upwards. The groups are very
fluid. Basically the children have three different places in the classrooms
where they sit: their maths table, their literacy table and their normal
table. The whole class covers the same subject at the same time, but the
expectations are different.

there is oodles of research that shows that in the US at least very
early tracking often was based on characteristics like color,
cleanliness, manners, and what the older sibling's reputation was --
which resulted in very young children being permanently tracked into low
achievement -- once they are in a setting where expectations are low, it
is very hard to dig out -- even a very bright child might end up falling
very far short of their potential

Jenn wrote
there is oodles of research that shows that in the US at least very
early tracking often was based on characteristics like color,
cleanliness, manners, and what the older sibling's reputation was --
which resulted in very young children being permanently tracked into low
achievement -- once they are in a setting where expectations are low, it
is very hard to dig out -- even a very bright child might end up falling
very far short of their potential

Tracking sounds similar to but is crucially different from ability
grouping. Ability grouping incorporates flexibility. Kids are in a
group for reading, for math, etc., not for everything, and they can
move among groups as their educational needs change or as teachers
see something in them.

I really don't see how classrooms with 1 teacher and 20 and more kids
who share nothing but their age can pretend to be educating all the
kids when they're not ability grouping at all. Fact is, many districts
have gotten out of the "educating all the kids" business and into the
"providing good test scores" business. In the latter, if you already
know the stuff you'll be tested on, your education is over for the
year.

Nevermind wrote in :

Jenn wrote
there is oodles of research that shows that in the US at least very
early tracking often was based on characteristics like color,
cleanliness, manners, and what the older sibling's reputation was --
which resulted in very young children being permanently tracked into low
achievement -- once they are in a setting where expectations are low, it
is very hard to dig out -- even a very bright child might end up falling
very far short of their potential

Tracking sounds similar to but is crucially different from ability
grouping. Ability grouping incorporates flexibility. Kids are in a
group for reading, for math, etc., not for everything, and they can
move among groups as their educational needs change or as teachers
see something in them.
[snip]

Yes, in my kids school there is one class for each age group, so the
different ability groups are still in the same classroom, with the
same teacher. You can be in the top maths group, and the bottom
English group.

I can't see how you can have a functioning educational system for the
youngest children if it doesn't take account of their different abilities
when they start school. Over here, most children start formal schooling
in the year of their fifth birthday: and depending on the school there
may be one intake, or up to three in the year. That is some schools have
all children starting in September, and at other schools some children
might start at Christmas or Easter. So some children start school a few
days after their fourth birthday, in a class with children who are nearly
5yo.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Nevermind wrote:

Jenn wrote

there is oodles of research that shows that in the US at least very
early tracking often was based on characteristics like color,
cleanliness, manners, and what the older sibling's reputation was --
which resulted in very young children being permanently tracked into low
achievement -- once they are in a setting where expectations are low, it
is very hard to dig out -- even a very bright child might end up falling
very far short of their potential

Tracking sounds similar to but is crucially different from ability
grouping. Ability grouping incorporates flexibility. Kids are in a
group for reading, for math, etc., not for everything, and they can
move among groups as their educational needs change or as teachers
see something in them.


They are quite different, though of course people
(and schools) sometimes use the terms incorrectly and
claim to be doing one when they're really doing the other ;-)


I really don't see how classrooms with 1 teacher and 20 and more kids
who share nothing but their age can pretend to be educating all the
kids when they're not ability grouping at all. Fact is, many districts
have gotten out of the "educating all the kids" business and into the
"providing good test scores" business. In the latter, if you already
know the stuff you'll be tested on, your education is over for the
year.


True, but there is an alternative to ability grouping,
which is to address each child as an individual. This can
be done, though it's challenging.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article ,
says...
That's interesting, since my nephew in Fairfield, CT public schools is
profoundly gifted, and the district is paying for a teacher to come
and work with him on advanced math. It's a pull out program. They
still haven't quite solved the English/Language Arts piece, since it
involves driving him over to the high school.
He's had a great experience, and they have accomodated him in ways I
would not have expected.

MY suspicion is administrators often make up these sorts of things,
"It's a state law that..." either out of true ignorance, or because
they don't WANT to do the extra work.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00) Zachary Mitchell
Theona Alexis (06/03/03) (01/12/94, fostered 09/05/01 - 07/23/03)

(Nevermind) wrote in message . com...

I know this will be a very unscientific survey, but I'm curious about
how common Erika's school's grouping system (see below) is these days.
Our school doesn't officially do ability grouping -- there is *no*
expectation that the work the kids're doing in reading or math will be
pegged to their individual ability at all, only to their age. It's
one-size-fits-all unless the teacher wants to differentiate on her
own.

To *not* group by ability is institutional abuse.

I had understood that ability grouping had become rare in U.S.
elementary schools, but if I'm wrong about that, then our school
district's system is much more vulnerable to criticism and parental
agitation for change.

Trust me, it's rare.

On 5 Nov 2003 12:36:39 -0800, (Roger Dodger)
wrote:

(Nevermind) wrote in message . com...

I know this will be a very unscientific survey, but I'm curious about
how common Erika's school's grouping system (see below) is these days.
Our school doesn't officially do ability grouping -- there is *no*
expectation that the work the kids're doing in reading or math will be
pegged to their individual ability at all, only to their age. It's
one-size-fits-all unless the teacher wants to differentiate on her
own.

To *not* group by ability is institutional abuse.

I had understood that ability grouping had become rare in U.S.
elementary schools, but if I'm wrong about that, then our school
district's system is much more vulnerable to criticism and parental
agitation for change.

Trust me, it's rare.

No, I don't trust you... Cite some statistics that show this. Every
school my own children went to grouped by ability for reading and
many did for math as well as early as kindergarten and 1st grade.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

toto wrote in message . ..
On 5 Nov 2003 12:36:39 -0800, (Roger Dodger)
wrote:

I had understood that ability grouping had become rare in U.S.
elementary schools, but if I'm wrong about that, then our school
district's system is much more vulnerable to criticism and parental
agitation for change.

Trust me, it's rare.

No, I don't trust you... Cite some statistics that show this. Every
school my own children went to grouped by ability for reading and
many did for math as well as early as kindergarten and 1st grade.

Cite some statistic to show the contrary. Every school that I went
to, except high school in a limited capacity, did not group by ability.

In article , Roger Dodger
says...

toto wrote in message
...
On 5 Nov 2003 12:36:39 -0800, (Roger Dodger)
wrote:

I had understood that ability grouping had become rare in U.S.
elementary schools, but if I'm wrong about that, then our school
district's system is much more vulnerable to criticism and parental
agitation for change.

Trust me, it's rare.

No, I don't trust you... Cite some statistics that show this. Every
school my own children went to grouped by ability for reading and
many did for math as well as early as kindergarten and 1st grade.

Cite some statistic to show the contrary. Every school that I went
to, except high school in a limited capacity, did not group by ability.

Perhaps if they had, they would have gotten to the part where you would learn
that the burden of proof is on you to back up your contention.

Banty