frustrated with Doctor. Am I rightfullt so? (a bit long, but needhelp!)

He said ok. Never wrote it down or commented on it. He made it sound
like I have no reason to worry. (didn't even try to ask any more
questions abot the matter. When i tried to explain more, he didn't
really seem interested to know more)

Donna wrote:

"Welches" wrote in message
news:rw2rc.50$wm4.49@newsfe3-gui...

Donna wrote in message
...

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
t...


Even so, she has a strong familial history of late-term pregnancy

loss.

So

far, her OB has not addressed her fears, given her anything to watch

out

for, or any support whatsoever. I have real problems with the "one

pregnancy

for free, then we worry" mentality.

It's entirely unclear as to whether the OP has ever *mentioned* any of

her

sister's history and her own subsequent fears to the OB.


She has-and the reason why (placenta insufficiency) and that her aunt had

a

history of still birth at 6 months too.


Ok, I must have missed that. So she brought it up to the OB, who presumably
said ... what? My server has been a little wacky the last day or so. I
must be missing posts.

Donna

Ok, but I do have a list of questions every time & I do ask them. He
just never gives me any significant answers. I don't think "this is
normal" or "you're pregnant" are appropriate answers for anyone.

Hillary Israeli wrote:

In ,
Naomi Pardue wrote:

*Anyways, every single visit, we go there he puts that thing on my belly
*& we listen to the heartbeat. That is all he does. Then he asks me if I
*have any questions and off I go. Sorry, but this is not enough for me, I
*want more interaction and more attention
*
* (especially that this is my
*first child. Everything freaks me out and I am clueless most of the time).
*
*
*Ok. Am I missing something? You say he asks if you have any questions, and
*then you leave. But it sounds to me like you DO have a lot of questions. So,
*when he asks if you have qustions, say "Yes!" and then ask them! If you just
*leave, how is he supposed to know what your concerns are?

It's funny you should mention that Great minds think alike...
because I was thinking -

*Last visit, he told me that now I will start to visit him every 2 weeks.
*I asked him when my next ultrasound is gonna be (I thought one should
*have another ultrasound in the 3rd trimester), he said that therewasn't
*gonna be another one. I tried to transform my disappointment and my

Like at this point, she could have said "you know, I have some questions,
since you always ask me if I have questions. First - why don't I get
another ultrasound? Can you explain? What's the standard in obstetrics
regarding number of ultrasounds, anyway?" and so on. You know. Just start
asking as many questions as you have. As long as you do, you will be
interacting, and he will be giving you attention - right??

I just don't really get what's so upsetting. But maybe it's the guy's
demeanor. Maybe he asks over his shoulder, as he exits the room, "oh, uh,
any questions? no? OK, bye!"

It is not about getting pictures It is also not about seeing how all
fetuses develop, I have the net, books etc for that. It is about how my
child is developing. I know that many believe that just cause my sister
has placenta insufficiency, my mother had her menoause at 38 & my aunt
used to miscarriage at 6 months doesn't mean i will have the same
conditions, but I am sorry I can not help worrying. I may be comforted
if my dr would tell me that I have nothing to worry about, because ....
(medical facts or statistics). BUT him telling me ok (like he is just
taking in info & not even writing it down), or by always acting like I
am offending him for asking questions (which may not be normal for
normal pregnancies) etc is not my idea of a dr doing his job.

As for asking for an ultrasound now, well it is really because I read
every where that drs often do another ultrasound in the 3rd trimester. I
asked the question & got an answer that it is not that common. I am not
asking for anything more than everybody else, but I had to check with
other people about their experiences. Like I said, my friend was getting
sonars done all the time, so it appeared to me that this is a normal
procedure.

Naomi Pardue wrote:

I must admit that the idea of having little baby pics is a very tempting
idea, especially for a first timer. But my idea was that she was seeing
the development of her little girl. She was not totally in the dark.



And neither are you. THere are scores of books out there that describe (and
illustrate) the normal development and growth of a fetus. Since we can assume
that your baby is doing fine, I still don't see why you need to have pictures
of your particular baby. You really WILL get to see her. When she is born.

(It's only been in the past 15-20 years or so that ultrasound has been even
remotely routine in normal pregnancies. Women did just fine without getting
frequent peeks at their developing baby.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

"Donna" wrote in message ...
I hit post too soon. The baby wandered in with an extremely fragrant
diaper, and I had to deal with it at that instant. You know how that is.


Yup. I do indeed!


"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
om...

I disagree. Doctors are our employees. If they aren't meeting our
needs, emotional or otherwise, then it's time to find a new one.

Employees, maybe. Certainly that's a better analogy than "god", but I
suppose I think of mine more as colleagues. All of us are interested in
working together to make sure my baby is healthy.

The reason I think of them as employees, is that the final
decision-mkaer regarding my body is me. If I'm pregnant, then the
final decision-makers regarding the baby are myself and my husband.
Doctors, and other health-care professions are people that I pay to
give me good advice. So if a doctor gives me information, and I
follow that advice, and something goes wrong, then I actually share
some of the responsibility for it going wrong, because ultimately I
went along with the doctor's advice.

I first started feeling this way when my father had cancer. He didn't
want to be told his "chances" and told his oncologist that. He was
worried that it would just get him down, and everything we had read
suggested that the right attitude in fighting cancer was key (people
who actively fought the cancer tended to live longer, and had a higher
cure rate). His doctor ignored his wishes, and told him anyway. He
also made it clear that he had little faith in the "mental" aspects of
fighting cancer, and wasn't supportive of Dad's using mental-health
professionals for guided imagery and stuff like that. Eventually, when
Dad was in the depths of chemo and radiation, he fired his doctor, and
picked the doctor in the practice who was known to be the most
friendly toward working hand-in-hand with psychologists. Then a few
years later, I was in a class where the discussion turned to
breastcancer, and one of the women said "I don't care about bedside
manner; just get me the best doctor there is." And I realized that
she was wrong. The best doctor is one who is a great technician, but
ALSO someone who could work on the patient, not just the tumor. I
didn't talk about it with her, but I bet if she is uncomfortable with
her hypothetical doctor, and she's facing a potentially
life-threatening situation, she won't get the care she needs.

So when it comes down to it, we've got to be comfortable with our
doctors. And if your doctor isn't friendly and caring enough for the
individual, then it's time to get another doctor.

I don't think our positions are that divergent. I certainly don't
disagree with anything you're saying.

Maybe so. I think she might have unreasonable expectations of what
prenatal "maintenance-type" care is going to be (pee on a stick, get
blood pressure checked, check fundal height, ask a few questions then
send you on your way), and that might just be due to ignorance. But
expecting better bedside manner (if that's what she needs) isn't
unreasonable. She might have to shop around until she finds one she
likes. Every year, when she needed her well-woman physical, she went
to a different OBGYN until she found one she liked. She's been going
to him for 20 years now.

An example: two months ago, my ultrasound showed a marginal placenta
previa. I talked with my OB about it, and he gave me some information.
Then I went home and did some research, which agreed pretty much with the
OBs take on things. But I wanted additional reassurance that everything was
still going to be ok. Rather than calling my OB and asking him to reiterate
that everything was going to be ok, I posted here, and got a number of
different responses from people, confirming what I was told, and reassuring
me. Which was exactly what I was hoping to hear. Does that anecdote make
my perspective any clearer?

Certainly. Your doctor gave you an appropriate level of care, and you
are comfortable with it. I think the OP had an unreasonable
expectation of the regular care. But if she needs a more reassuring
doctor, then there's no reason she can't find one. They do exist.

I also feel she might be more comfortable with a midwife. My
appointments were for 30 minutes minimum, and they gave me that whole
time to answer questions, and make me feel better.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
om...

The reason I think of them as employees, is that the final
decision-mkaer regarding my body is me. If I'm pregnant, then the
final decision-makers regarding the baby are myself and my husband.
Doctors, and other health-care professions are people that I pay to
give me good advice. So if a doctor gives me information, and I
follow that advice, and something goes wrong, then I actually share
some of the responsibility for it going wrong, because ultimately I
went along with the doctor's advice.

An in my terribly humble opinion, you have *exactly* the right attitude.
So whether you call it a Boss/Employee relationship, or I call it a
collegial relationship, I think we're talking about exactly the same thing.
Tomayto/tomahto.


I first started feeling this way when my father had cancer. He didn't
want to be told his "chances" and told his oncologist that. He was
worried that it would just get him down, and everything we had read
suggested that the right attitude in fighting cancer was key (people
who actively fought the cancer tended to live longer, and had a higher
cure rate). His doctor ignored his wishes, and told him anyway. He
also made it clear that he had little faith in the "mental" aspects of
fighting cancer, and wasn't supportive of Dad's using mental-health
professionals for guided imagery and stuff like that. Eventually, when
Dad was in the depths of chemo and radiation, he fired his doctor, and
picked the doctor in the practice who was known to be the most
friendly toward working hand-in-hand with psychologists.

Excellent choices your dad made. I get very frustrated with MDs who cannot
tolerate a partnership with their patients. In your father's situation, I'd
do the same thing.

Then a few
years later, I was in a class where the discussion turned to
breastcancer, and one of the women said "I don't care about bedside
manner; just get me the best doctor there is." And I realized that
she was wrong. The best doctor is one who is a great technician, but
ALSO someone who could work on the patient, not just the tumor. I
didn't talk about it with her, but I bet if she is uncomfortable with
her hypothetical doctor, and she's facing a potentially
life-threatening situation, she won't get the care she needs.

Well, I see your point, certainly. I don't see this as an either/or choice,
however. There isn't just ONE excellent doctor. Once can select a
physician whose interpersonal style is compatible, without (necessarily)
choosing a poor scientist. (For example, I interviewed three different
obstetrical groups, for example, before choosing the one I have. All have
excellent reputations and outcomes, but the group I have now, of the 9 OBs,
7 seem to have personality types which mesh with mine. In general, there is
more than one "best" MD in town. )



So when it comes down to it, we've got to be comfortable with our
doctors. And if your doctor isn't friendly and caring enough for the
individual, then it's time to get another doctor.

No argument there.

snippity

I think the OP had an unreasonable
expectation of the regular care. But if she needs a more reassuring
doctor, then there's no reason she can't find one. They do exist.

Agreed, completely. Well... let me add a caveat... I think she can
probably shop around to find a *more* touchy-feely obstetrician (or
midwife!), but if she decides to stay within the formal medical
establishment (meaning an OB), she may have to adjust her expectations a
bit.


I also feel she might be more comfortable with a midwife. My
appointments were for 30 minutes minimum, and they gave me that whole
time to answer questions, and make me feel better.

I think a midwife would be an excellent way for the OP to get the
interaction she needs. I hope she'll consider one.

Donna

"zolw" wrote in message
news:GQ9rc.74$ny.92981@attbi_s53...
Ok, but I do have a list of questions every time & I do ask them. He
just never gives me any significant answers. I don't think "this is
normal" or "you're pregnant" are appropriate answers for anyone.


May I ask what kinds of questions you are asking? Because "This is normal.
You're pregnant." is often the appropriate answer, if the questions are "Why
am I peeing all the time?" "Why am I throwing up constantly?" "Why does my
back ache/nose feel stuffy/husband drive me crazy?"

I don't want to minimize your feelings, at all, at all. When I interviewed
OBs before my first pregnancy, I disqualified one group because they were a
little too hands off for me. So I do appreciate your feelings. But there
is a difference between being blown off (which does happen, and is
inexcusable), and just being answered with a non-alarmist response.

What happens when you follow up his response with "But *WHY* is this
happening? I know it's normal, but can you explain it to me?"

Donna

"zolw" wrote in message
news:RY9rc.87063$iF6.7441454@attbi_s02...
It is not about getting pictures It is also not about seeing how all
fetuses develop, I have the net, books etc for that. It is about how my
child is developing. I know that many believe that just cause my sister
has placenta insufficiency, my mother had her menoause at 38 & my aunt
used to miscarriage at 6 months doesn't mean i will have the same
conditions, but I am sorry I can not help worrying. I may be comforted
if my dr would tell me that I have nothing to worry about, because ....
(medical facts or statistics). BUT him telling me ok (like he is just
taking in info & not even writing it down), or by always acting like I
am offending him for asking questions (which may not be normal for
normal pregnancies) etc is not my idea of a dr doing his job.

It seems to me that you need to find another practicioner. Whether you
are being unrealistic, or he is being dismissive is, I think, at this point,
immaterial. You're not having your needs met, and you should.

At any rate, you now know one of the things you need to search out in your
next caregiver.

Donna

zolw wrote:

As for asking for an ultrasound now, well it is really because I read
every where that drs often do another ultrasound in the 3rd trimester. I
asked the question & got an answer that it is not that common. I am not
asking for anything more than everybody else, but I had to check with
other people about their experiences. Like I said, my friend was getting
sonars done all the time, so it appeared to me that this is a normal
procedure.

While you can find some who do them more frequently,
frequent u/s are not common in normal pregnancies. The
official position of the ACOG is that routine u/s is
not indicated at all (i.e., the primary professional body
of obstetricians and gynecologists in the US says that
you shouldn't have *ANY* ultrasounds unless there is a
medical indication for them, which there isn't in a
normal pregnancy). The Cochrane Group (one of the premiere
evidence based medicine research groups in the world)
lists routine u/s in pregnancy as a treatment with no
proven benefit.

Best wishes,
Ericka

zolw wrote:

Ok, but I do have a list of questions every time & I do ask them. He
just never gives me any significant answers. I don't think "this is
normal" or "you're pregnant" are appropriate answers for anyone.

While I can see how they might seem abrupt, why
are they inappropriate? There are a lot of weird and
annoying things that *are*, in fact, normal (or at least
common) in pregnancy and there just isn't anything to
be done about it. Why would further discussion be
warranted? What kinds of questions is he giving those
responses to?

Best wishes,
Ericka

I am not sure why everyone is still stuck on the ultra sound issue. I
have already explained that it seemed to me that most drs give 2
ultrasounds. Now that I know they don't I do not want another
ultrasound. I just want to be certain that my child is alright.

I just want to make sure that my sister's problems do not repeat. & I am
sure unless he is a fortune teller or has some magic abilities, external
examination is not accurate.

I also feel that so far into my pregnancy it will actually be
inconvenient for me to start shopping for another dr. Especially that
there is no guarante that the next dr I see won't be exactly the same
way. I will probably have to put up with what I believe to be not proper
care giving. I do not care if he is an OB or a midwife, there is ABC
treating other people. He can not always treat me like he is doing me a
favor. Actually he gets paid much more than his service deserves & he
should have the decency to treat his patients better. I am not asking
him to sit there & hug me or comfort me but he can smile every now &
then, he can listen to me when i have questions (instead he gives me
those patronising looks. I even caught myself sometimes apologizing for
having questions, which is real sad).

I thought about this whole issue & I do not believe that I have any
unrealistic needs or expectations. Maybe here in the US drs think that
they can treat patients like dummies, but where I come from drs are
obligated to treat you well & give you some emotional support, as
wellas, explain if you ask for explanations. It is not unrealistic.

I never said I wanted more tests, if they were unneccessary. I had to
tell you all the tests I had, so that you readers have a better image &
then you can just tell me if it's normal or not. BUT I need my dr to
tell me things. When I ask him about any plans (that are not within the
time between an appointment & the next) he does not feel the urgency to
answer them. He just says that when the time comes he will discuss it
with me. Yeah, I must admit that some questions were way too much into
the future, but there is nothing called too early.

For example, when i asked him about contraceptions after I have the baby
(I thought that if I put a loop ( no idea what these are called in the
US) then it would be done right after delivery). I hadn't even mentioned
to him what kind of contraception i had in mind & he just said that I
will come back 6 weeks after delivery & discuss it. Why couldn't we
discuss it then? Why can't I have ideas & options now, so that 6 weeks
after my delivery i would have a certainty of what I want? When i tried
to take it further, he just frowned (or maybe he just has a problem with
his facial impressions & gestures) at me & said that I am impatient.




Ericka Kammerer wrote:

zolw wrote:

As for asking for an ultrasound now, well it is really because I read
every where that drs often do another ultrasound in the 3rd trimester.
I asked the question & got an answer that it is not that common. I am
not asking for anything more than everybody else, but I had to check
with other people about their experiences. Like I said, my friend was
getting sonars done all the time, so it appeared to me that this is a
normal procedure.


While you can find some who do them more frequently,
frequent u/s are not common in normal pregnancies. The
official position of the ACOG is that routine u/s is
not indicated at all (i.e., the primary professional body
of obstetricians and gynecologists in the US says that
you shouldn't have *ANY* ultrasounds unless there is a
medical indication for them, which there isn't in a
normal pregnancy). The Cochrane Group (one of the premiere
evidence based medicine research groups in the world)
lists routine u/s in pregnancy as a treatment with no
proven benefit.

Best wishes,
Ericka