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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
PREGNANT WOMEN: YOUR BABY'S UMBILICAL CORD
Everyone knows that babies breathe through their umbilical cords until they start breathing with their lungs. Read the gruesome umbilical cord pinching (baby asphyxiation) experiment of George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG below. Do not let the OB immediately clamp your baby's cord. Let it stop pulsating first. RETIRED OB PROPOSES CHILD ABUSE TO EXPOSE CHILD ABUSE... PROPOSES ASPHYXIATING BABY - DENYING BABY USE OF ITS OWN BLOOD How can George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG know that pinching the cord between thumb and finger to produce fetal heart rate deceleration "indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" is of no significance?! George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG advises a GRUESOME experiment: "[Immediately after delivery t]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm and the cord vein between thumb and umbilicus will empty completely into the child. If the child does not breathe or cry, the heart rate will remain low, and the color will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.) Eventually, the normal child will gasp and start breathing due to high CO2 levels; the heart rate will increase, the color may improve, but the pallor will persist. "Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to...[do this]...for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb. Watch the cord vein distend while the child receives the placental transfusion. When breathing starts, the pallid, purple child will turn a ruddy pink, the deep, prolonged FHR deceleration will rapidly recover, and in a minute or two the Apgar score will be 10+. This ruddy-pink, squirming, bawling child with an intact cord has a normal blood volume. "On the other hand...[some midwives and obstetricians]...following the ACOG and trial lawyers' protocol, B138, may immediately doubly clamp and cut the cord (distal to the compressing thumb) and send a sample to the lab for cord blood gases; this child will be pale, somewhat slow to respond, and may have some retraction respiration - this "normal" child is missing a large portion of its normal blood volume. "In each scenario, a deep, long, [fetal heart rate/FHR] deceleration "indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" will be recorded on the monitor strip. In the first scenario, the effects are temporary, completely reversed and OF NO SIGNIFICANCE; in the second, one may have to wait until the child is in grade school to prove that the prolonged hypovolemia and subsequent anemia did not affect the integrity, growth and development of the child's brain.... http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm (emphasis added) BIZARRE! Again, how can George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG know that producing fetal heart rate deceleration "indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" is of no significance?! Crime is RAMPANT in obstetrics! PREGNANT WOMEN: Just before OBs clamp umbilical cords they knowingly clamp BIRTH CANALS - up to 30%. For simple PROOF - and simple instructions on how to OPEN your birth canal the "extra" up to 30%... It's mass spinal manipulation child abuse. MDs and MBs are violently pushing on tiny spines (with oxytocin) - and gruesomely pulling (with hands, forceps, vacuums) - with birth canals senselessly closed up to 30%. Some babies die, some babies get paralyzed - most "just" have their spines gruesomely wrenched. All spinal manipulation is gruesome with the birth canal closed. See: I ain't no Semmelweis, but... http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591 Immediately after this mass spinal manipulation child abuse, MDs and MBs subject babies to MORE child abuse - asphyxiation sufficient to cause brain damage via immediate cord clamping. MY THANKS TO... My thanks to Kelly Moscarello for sharing her home birth story (poor little Bella!) and for urging me to again look at George the OB's remarkable essay quoted above. My thanks also to Canadian Grandma Donna Young for introducing George the OB's website - I wish I had read that essay more closely a long time ago. Donna has a petition: www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/102580814 Oddly, missing from Donna's petition is the simple expedient of calling upon MDs and MBs and midwives to simply report immediate cord clamping as child abuse. SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORTS are in order from George the OB and any other MDs/MBs reading. MDs and MBs COUNT. MDs and MBs reporting immediate cord clamping (asphyxiation sufficient to cause brain damage) as child abuse will finally get the attention of DAs and attorney generals. MDs and MBs are true cultural authorities - unlike this DC who is accused of "just wanting to get back at" organized medicine. I just want mass child abuse by MDs and MBs to stop. My focus has been stopping the mass (sometimes fatal) birth-canal-closing SPINAL MANIPULATION child abuse by MDs and MBs mentioned above. See again: I ain't no Semmelweis, but... http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591 My new focus includes stopping MDs and MBs from causing asphyxiation sufficient to cause brain damage via immediate cord clamping. I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs and MBs. MDs and MBs are just academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental meatgrinder - medical school. Step One is affording babies the protection of child abuse laws designed to IMMEDIATELY protect them from harm. "TERROR AND SUFFERING" George the OB closes his essay: "To end this dilemma and the medico-legal terror and suffering, patients should demand, and practicing obstetricians should provide, an informed consent document stating that the newborn's cord will not be clamped until all pulsations have ceased and until the child is breathing and pink, and that resuscitation, if needed, will be done with the placental circulation intact. A scalp or heel blood sample at birth to confirm oxygenation status is just as valid as a cord blood sample. The practicing obstetricians may thus be able to restore some semblance of dignity and respect to their profession by discarding and ignoring the advice of their tort counselors, academic peers, publishers and sub-specialists. The scarcity of injured newborns and empty NICU's may have a very negative impact on various parties; the abundance of healthy babies will be welcome news to everyone else....My letters published in the Green Journal, June 2001, asking ACOG to provide an informed consent document for B138 remain unanswered, as do formal complaints regarding B138 to ACOG and the AMA. These parties have remained silent, and they have the right to remain silent; their silence speaks louder than words. ACOG's report on cerebral palsy is either a colossal error or a grotesque attempt to cover." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm George, OB criminals don't respond well to reasoning and logic. If they did, they would have stopped closing birth canals immediately after I exposed the crime. See again: I ain't no Semmelweis, but... http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591 CALL THE SHERIFF GEORGE If we saw men in white coats strangling people on the street - we would call 911 - the sheriff. WHY aren't we calling 911/the sheriff to stop men in white coats from strangling BABIES in hospitals? REPORT GEORGE. Urge other MDs and MBs to report. Keep reporting until OBs stop causing asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage. You might also report the grisly spectacle of OBs knowingly closing birth canals up to 30%. See again: I ain't no Semmelweis, but... http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591 Do it NOW George. (Immediate suspected child abuse reports are the law in nearly every jurisdiction in North America.) FIRST report child abuse - THEN keep writing essays imploring OB criminals to stop their crime - and be sure and encourage other OBs to join you in reporting - and reporting REGULARLY - until the OB crime stops. I don't think you should be advising child abuse to help expose child abuse though... I don't think you can know that pinching the cord between thumb and finger to produce fetal heart rate deceleration "indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" is of no significance... Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
Todd Gastaldo writes:
Everyone knows that babies breathe through their umbilical cords until they start breathing with their lungs. Unborn babies don't breathe at all. They receive oxygen from the mother's respiration. Do not let the OB immediately clamp your baby's cord. Why not? It has ceased to be useful for providing the baby with oxygen long before it is born. A newborn baby need only inhale to begin oxygenating itself, and that's exactly what it will do as soon as it has a chance. The umbilical cord is not needed. It has been severed from the connections with the mother much earlier. Communication between the baby's body and the mother's body through the cord begins to shut down as the process of delivery starts. Additionally, neonatess are extremely resistant to anoxia, no doubt because this resistance helps them to get through delivery, during which they may be deprived of oxygen for significant periods. The argument about blood volume seems reasonable enough, but Baby doesn't need the cord to breathe. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
In misc.kids.pregnancy Mxsmanic wrote:
: Todd Gastaldo writes: : Everyone knows that babies breathe through their umbilical cords until they : start breathing with their lungs. : Unborn babies don't breathe at all. They receive oxygen from the : mother's respiration. A fine point indeed. :-) I think Todd is using the word "breathe" colloquially to mean "receive oxygen." Of course you couldn't know that! :-) : Do not let the OB immediately clamp your baby's cord. : Why not? Hmm. We could get off topic very fast with a question like that. You already mention blood volume below. Iron stores is another. I am just pointing out that just because you disagree with Todd's comments about oxygen doesn't mean there aren't other reasons for delayed clamping. : It has ceased to be useful for providing the baby with oxygen : long before it is born. I don't know where you get that!! Cites!! In the case of my children, the placenta did not detach from the uterus until weel after they were born. I would question this conclusion. : A newborn baby need only inhale to begin oxygenating itself, and that's : exactly what it will do as soon as it has a chance. Well, approximately. In most case, what you say is true, but in the case of my first son, there was several minutes before he started breathing on his own. : The umbilical cord : is not needed. It has been severed from the connections with the mother : much earlier. Communication between the baby's body and the mother's : body through the cord begins to shut down as the process of delivery : starts. There are two points to be made here... 1. Often it is not the case that the placenta detaches immediately. 2. There is some time involved in the circulation of the umbilical bloot INTO the baby (where it stays after the baby is born). This is oxygenated blood that can provide additional oxygen to the baby. (although I would hazard not a great deal) : Additionally, neonatess are extremely resistant to anoxia, no doubt : because this resistance helps them to get through delivery, during which : they may be deprived of oxygen for significant periods. Define significant period. 6 minutes often equals brain damage, 10 minutes death. These numbers are highly variable and are only approximate, but they also probably represent the maximum possible. Admittedly, the oxygen in the cord probably represents only a fraction of a minute, but it might be the fraction that makes a difference in a particular instance. : The argument about blood volume seems reasonable enough, but Baby : doesn't need the cord to breathe. I agree that blood volume is a more important factor overall, and would argue that iron stores is also. You may think that Todd did not argue his point very well, but that is no reason to claim a protocol (delayed clamping) is not beneficial just because he did not pick what most people recognize as the biggest risk factors. Larry |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
Larry McMahan writes:
A fine point indeed. Not nearly as fine a point as any argument about clamping the cord. Hmm. We could get off topic very fast with a question like that. You already mention blood volume below. Iron stores is another. Iron is needed mostly for blood; the baby doesn't need extra iron if there's no blood to go with it. I am just pointing out that just because you disagree with Todd's comments about oxygen doesn't mean there aren't other reasons for delayed clamping. The whole discussion is rather like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In the absence of careful double-blind studies, there's no way to know whether early clamping is bad or good, or even if it makes any difference at all. I don't know where you get that!! Cites!! The first step of the delivery process is to begin shutting down connections between mother and child. Indeed, it's air hunger that stimulates the baby to take its first breath. If the supply of oxygen from Mom were intact, the baby would have no inclination to use its own lungs at birth. In the case of my children, the placenta did not detach from the uterus until weel after they were born. I would question this conclusion. It doesn't have to detach. It's already inoperative for exchange of nutrients and breathing gases. Well, approximately. In most case, what you say is true, but in the case of my first son, there was several minutes before he started breathing on his own. Your first son doesn't establish a general rule. All babies go through some degree of anoxia for some number of minutes when they are delivered; that's what triggers their own breathing (the rise in CO2 that accompanies the fall in oxygen as the placental route for breathing gases shuts down). There are two points to be made here... 1. Often it is not the case that the placenta detaches immediately. "Detaches" isn't the same as "stops working." 2. There is some time involved in the circulation of the umbilical bloot INTO the baby (where it stays after the baby is born). This is oxygenated blood that can provide additional oxygen to the baby. (although I would hazard not a great deal) Very little. And I'm not sure why you think the blood is particularly oxgenated, any more than the blood in the baby itself. Define significant period. Several minutes with varying degrees of anoxia. This is what stimulates breathing. A baby is disinclined to breathe as long as it is getting oxygen; the lack of oxygen (or more precisely the rise in CO2) is what starts it breathing on its own. You may think that Todd did not argue his point very well, but that is no reason to claim a protocol (delayed clamping) is not beneficial just because he did not pick what most people recognize as the biggest risk factors. I think that none of this really matters. Clamping or not clamping isn't going to have any significant effect on Baby. Human beings are not that delicate, and in any case the cord is essentially non-functional by the time the doctor can get to it to clamp it. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
Mxsmanic wrote in message . ..
snip In the absence of careful double-blind studies, there's no way to know whether early clamping is bad or good, or even if it makes any difference at all. snip Clamping or not clamping isn't going to have any significant effect on Baby. Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter? You can't have it both ways. If, as you say, no suitable studies of the question exist, then both you AND Todd (and anyone else either) are just articulating your opinions, with no more empirical evidence for the one position than the other, and while you may find your version more plausible, that is waaaay insufficient basis to conclude that you are definitely correct. Pat, wearing researcher hat for a moment edd July 21 |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
P Harris writes:
Mxsmanic wrote in message . .. snip In the absence of careful double-blind studies, there's no way to know whether early clamping is bad or good, or even if it makes any difference at all. snip Clamping or not clamping isn't going to have any significant effect on Baby. Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter? You can't have it both ways. If, as you say, no suitable studies of the question exist, then both you AND Todd (and anyone else either) are just articulating your opinions, with no more empirical evidence for the one position than the other, and while you may find your version more plausible, that is waaaay insufficient basis to conclude that you are definitely correct. Pat, wearing researcher hat for a moment edd July 21 -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
P Harris writes:
Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter? I'm not sure where you see the confident assertion. I was merely expressing an opinion. In the absence of evidence in one direction or the other, I see no reason to blithely assume that clamping the cord makes any difference. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
In misc.kids.pregnancy Mxsmanic wrote:
: P Harris writes: : Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the : absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether : early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs : later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter? : I'm not sure where you see the confident assertion. I was merely : expressing an opinion. In the absence of evidence in one direction or : the other, I see no reason to blithely assume that clamping the cord : makes any difference. : -- : Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. I'd look up the studies on Medscape, but you're too opinionated to be worth the effort. Larry |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
Larry McMahan writes:
I'd look up the studies on Medscape, but you're too opinionated to be worth the effort. Then why do you mention them? There are no double-blind, controlled studies on Medscape, or anywhere else. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... Larry McMahan writes: I'd look up the studies on Medscape, but you're too opinionated to be worth the effort. Then why do you mention them? There are no double-blind, controlled studies on Medscape, or anywhere else. If this is the case, then it's foolish to assume that immediate clamping of the cord has no ill effects, and to *do* it as a matter of routine. It is true, in many species, that the mother will chew the cord shortly after birth. However in many cases, the cord breaks spontaneously when the mother lurches to her feet. In no other species that I know of is birth attended by a third party who severs the cord, or certainly not immediately. One cannot ever do a proper study on the effects on any given individual child - the child is either clamped immediately, or not. We cannot see how the child might have fared if the other had been done. Better, I think, to err on the side of caution: allow the cord to remain until it clearly ceases to function. If not when the placenta comes away from the uterine wall, then at least when the cord stops pulsing. --angela |
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