| Suing a school 4 child endangerment & neglect FWD:

geegor, the savior of posting and reading Usenet Kind. Yes another
google error message causes me to post funny. Enjoy

On Mon, 31 May 2004 07:56:22 -0500, "bobb"
wrote:


"Fern5827" wrote in message
...
FWD:
FWD:


Subject: 8 Year Old Recovers
2004 5:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: t


Good thing he took something safe and effective, not like toxic
tylenol.



DEL CITY -- The 8-year-old boy who overdosed on Ritalin is now out
of the
hospital and recovering at home.

Dakota Loflin's mother said the pills were handed to him by the
school
secretary. It was on the last day of school last week when Dakota
ingested
the 25 pills. The secretary had given the boy the bottle to take
home.

Dakota's mother is thankful her son is all right, but she's now
pushing
for
policy changes inside the Mid-Del school district.

Officials with other school districts said they follow a different
procedure.

"The parents are the ones who are supposed to pick up that
medication and
we've had cases where parents didn't pick it up so school nurses
actually
sent letters home to parents to let them know it is there to come
pick it
up," one school administrator said.

Now, the Loflin family plans to sue the school for child
endangerment and
neglect. The Mid-Del district said it's investigating the case.



Now let me see. We have a person claiming to have been a foster
parent, who seems not only oblivious to the contrariness of children
that are diagnosed with a problem (sounds like this boy was NOT good
at judgement BEFORE the incident....or he might not have been on
ritalin) but to the fact that 8 year old often are NOT fully congizant
of drug use details.

We also have a claimed foster parent, apparently forgetting that some
children...as the schools are required to provide on site instruction
in nearly all instances.....may be very limited in both intellectual
development and emotional development.

There is a reason schools want to have a child's medication...and to
then overlook those reasons and hand the child the meds are NOT about
a failure of parental responsibility.

I doubt you were ever a foster parent. That's prescription drug
control 101 in foster parenting classes. No matter the age of the you
must keep the meds locked away. School person badly buggered the
monkey.

Don't know the rest of the story...

I know, but you'll babble the very first thing that comes to your mind
to criticize anyone without offering any other possible
scenarios....you caution that you don't know doesn't excuse you from
vicious little twitterings you do here.

but if this kid had some idea about
taking 25 pills...

He could have done it on a dare, he could have done it out of
ignorance, thinking if one or two made him feel more functional a
bottle full would turn him into a junior einstein able to leap tall
math story problems in a single bound. This is a third grader at
best....kindergarten age 5, first age 6, second age 7, third age 8.

YOu expect a third grader, for whom all we know could be a DD kid, or
borderline, or drug or alcohol effected to make such sophisticated
decisions on his own about medications...when we rountinely feed kids
Pebbles and Bam Bam flavored chewable vitamins?

he would've did it at home to so it seems unreasonable to
hold the school responsible for the behavior of another.

He'd do it at home only if the mother was keeping the meds unlocked. I
hear that mothers of children that are of the usual diagnosis as
Ritalin is frequently Rxd for are cautioned NOT to do that.

All too often the
courts are finding fault and blame where none should exist.

And all to often you say that all to often. Without saying what all to
often actually is.

Interestingly, with all the ritalin now being prescribed and likely in
the hands of school personnel for safekeeping, how many cases have yo
heard of like this? Seems things are going well with the force of law
being respected and used in this country.

It's more often FAILURE to enforce the law that causes the greatest
number of problems...though on the war of Some drugs I'm persuaded
that the law needs changing.

YOu focus on the damndest things, Dug...oh, wait, bobb. And fight your
silly windmills to insist on people's right to endanger their children
without reaction from society or consequences even when they kill or
injure their children. Now it's even when OTHER people do it you
protest.

You apparently have half your brain in your shirt pocket and it's in
the drying right now.

I guess mom didn't do a very good job of parenting ..

Let's assume for the sake of discussion (as you seem more than willing
to do) this mom is parenting a typical..oh say..ADHD kid...you know
the stuff that can't really be diagnosed but the behaviors are
codified as connect to SOME kind of syndrome that is patterned and
hell for all concerned, the child included.

Let's say that parenting such a child is very difficult.

Not only do AD kids, and alcohol effected kids have questionable brain
function, it manefests as POOR DECISION MAKING SKILLS, AND MORE
DANGEROUSLY A COMPLETE DISCONNECT FROM CAUSE TO EFFECT, a good deal if
not all the time.

They can be trained to respond by behavioral means, but NOT ACTUALLY
KNOW WHY THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Put them in a situation,
like not on the site where they got the training, and they are free to
and often do anything at all that pops into their head, which they
don't even PROCESS FOR CONTENT...JUST DOOOOOOOOO IT.

I say again. I do NOT BELIEVE YOU WERE EVER A FOSTER PARENT OR IF YOU
WERE YOU HAD VERY VERY FEW KIDS AND THEY HAD TO BE CAREFULLY PICKED BY
THE WORKER SO YOU WOULDN'T GET THEM INTO DANGEROUS SITUATIONS.

Or you had the worse training possible. No doubt greegor got his wish
and became a parent trainer in your state if he couldn't in his own.

the boy didn't follow
instructions

How do YOU know what his instructions were? He may have been told to
collect his pills, one or two (though that number may never have been
mentioned, relying on the school person to follow the instructions on
the bottle...the usual method of handing meds at school), only from
the nice lady and take what was given him.

In fact to the waaaay to often literal minded D or A or
developmentally afflicted kids (and you on occasion I'll bet) he may
have been doing exactly as he had been instructed....puzzled maybe,
but maybe not....just being a good boy and doing as instructed.

For **** sakes man, didn't you ever work with delayed or drug or
alcohol effected kids....or even NON comprimised kids that were
literal minded and came close to danger? THAT WHY CHILDREN HAVE
PARENTS......THEY ARE UNPREDICTABLE FROM TIME TO TIME ON THE
DEVELOPMENTAL PATH TO ADULTHOOD...not that a few adults aren't
totally delayed twits....bobb.

and failed to live up to expectation.

What expectation....that a third grader will not have the capacity to
consistently do as he or she is told, or know why it MIGHT be
dangerou not to, given they practice, as nature intends, NOT doing
some of the things they are told to do?

Can is a great big DUUUUUUH to you?

Now she wants to defer
the failing of her parenting,

Nutball, she was in parentis absentis.....they were in loco. THEY HAD
A 3RD GRADER ON RITALIN UNDER THEIR TOTAL CONTROL And blew it.

I'd not only take their money....the person themselves but find an
alley to drag them into an talk turkey for an active five minutes or
so to remind them NOT to risk my childs life when I am required to
provide education and often public school is the only choice.

and the personal responsibility of her child
to the school. It's outrageous.

Well, it is if you ignore everything I just taught you.

How COULD you be a foster parent? Foster parents deal with this meds a
school thing all the time. Many of the children they care for are
compromised in multiple ways...not just for the psychoactive drug Tx
but for other ailments as well. Proper admin of drugs is a very
serious responsibility.

How would YOU respond if a foster kid of yours was handed his full
medicine bottle without you there ,when it supposed to go hand to hand
directly to you, the kid overdoses and YOU have to explain how YOU let
this happen?

I can hear your wails now......"But but, the school had
instructions....etc."

"I had other children to care for, and it wasn't even tiime for me to
pick him up and he was supposed to be home....blah blah blah..." you'd
be bawling like a baby squealing it wasn't your fault.

Because if YOU could be blamed for that failure, bobb, you'd be an EX
foster parent, and if you had kids of your own you might be visiting
them in another foster home for a few days during an investigation to
see if you had been this sloppy at home leaving powerful meds within
reach of your own children...who might be even younger than this kid.

bobb, I'll be kind. Today I will only call you a boob, bobb. bobb
bobbin' along.

And you think Dug is your knight in shining armor defending you from
nasty ol' straight on tell it like it is Kane. tsk.

He says you contribute things that make people think.

I agree. Think you are blithering twittering idiot.

Oh, and just to keep you properly informed. Ritalin itself effects
judgement. It's a psychoactive as well as a blood thinner. Thinner
blood is differently O2d and can flood the brain making one feel quite
giddy. And doing stupid things.

A slight imablance in dosage....that's why prescriptions from doctors
are necessary...and periodic review...can cause mental confusion.

Yes, hand the kid his meds, by all means. bobb says it's okay and the
mother's fault if he ods.

Yer disgusting. Dug pet.

bobb

Kane

The school was wrong-plain and simple.

Having said that, I've been in the office in the morning when the students
bring in their bottles of meds, breathing machines and vials for them, and
similar things, no parent nearby and hand them to the nurse or secretary.
There is a meds form on file from registration. Some of these kids are as
young as 5. We have no way of knowing if this transfer had been happening in
this way for this child all year or not. If the parent was not themselves
following policy to the letter, but doing what was easy for them, it is hard
to accept blaming the school for following the parent's lead.

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..
The school was wrong-plain and simple.

Having said that, I've been in the office in the morning when the students
bring in their bottles of meds, breathing machines and vials for them, and
similar things, no parent nearby and hand them to the nurse or secretary.
There is a meds form on file from registration. Some of these kids are as
young as 5. We have no way of knowing if this transfer had been happening
in
this way for this child all year or not. If the parent was not themselves
following policy to the letter, but doing what was easy for them, it is
hard
to accept blaming the school for following the parent's lead.


Are you young people so totally unaware that children in past years took
their medications without school intevention. Not that teachers were
unwilling to offer reminders so kids didn't forget but there were no
legalities attached and thus no blame. It remained the child's
responsibility. Of course, we didn't have 5 year old kids shuffled off to
strangers then either.

If mom had to make a trip to school.... so be it. Or perhaps an older
brother or sister... even a nightbor's child. Quit placing undue (legal)
responsibility on others. If you ask a teacher for help...be appreciative
that it is a favor... not an obiligation.

Kids are the parents responsibility... and if the school nurse offers to
help...which they did even before stupid laws were passed... it was
appreciated. Today, we see such help and favors as an entitlement and a
right. Bull...

bobb

"bobb" wrote in message ...
"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..
The school was wrong-plain and simple.

Having said that, I've been in the office in the morning when the students
bring in their bottles of meds, breathing machines and vials for them, and
similar things, no parent nearby and hand them to the nurse or secretary.
There is a meds form on file from registration. Some of these kids are as
young as 5. We have no way of knowing if this transfer had been happening
in
this way for this child all year or not. If the parent was not themselves
following policy to the letter, but doing what was easy for them, it is
hard
to accept blaming the school for following the parent's lead.


Are you young people so totally unaware that children in past years took
their medications without school intevention.

Nonsense. Schools have been involved in the monitoring and
administering supervision of meds and reacting to health concerns
since before I was born, a very long time ago, indeed. Where do you
get this nonsense.

Not that teachers were
unwilling to offer reminders so kids didn't forget but there were no
legalities attached and thus no blame.

Absolute misinformation. I cannot remember a time when there were NOT
school nurses, in larger schools a fulltime staffer, now a roving
district nurse, and there WERE reminders, even to the point of coming
by the classroom to fetch the child or in schools with classroom PA
systesm, by the time I was in highschool, that summoned kids. You're a
caution, bobb.

Between Doug's propagada pieces and your completely out of touch with
reality nonsense this would be a prime laboratory for a college class
on critical thinking errors.

It remained the child's
responsibility.

B.S.

Of course, we didn't have 5 year old kids shuffled off to
strangers then either.

I beg your pardon. At what age did children start school where you
are? I started at five, at the latest 6, and every generation since
did.

If mom had to make a trip to school.... so be it.

Nonsense again. WWII was a perfect example. Most mothers worked not
only in the war effort but in more typically male jobs to replace the
men gone off to war. You are an ignorant ditz.

My own mother was one of those. And school personnel took over, as has
been the practice since, many of those duties you deny.

Or perhaps an older
brother or sister... even a nightbor's child.

BS. Total garbage.

Quit placing undue (legal)
responsibility on others.

"Placing?" No, you are completely wrong. Society placed the
responsibility on the teacher and the schools. In fact they did so
through the legal process.

in loco parentis
PRONUNCIATION: n lk p-rnts
ADVERB: In the position or place of a parent.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin in loc parentis : in, in + loc, ablative of locus,
place + parentis, genitive of parns, parent.

And of course it makes since, given that the parent may not be
locatable and the school cannot be running down the parent everytime
there is a decision to be made.

If you ask a teacher for help...be appreciative
that it is a favor... not an obiligation.

True of that were the case. It isn't asking, it is the law.

You forget that children are children...or we'd pop them out, give
them a ticket to NY and introduction to their new boss, and let them
make their own way after that.

A child cannot be relied upon to make reasoned decisions.

Kids are the parents responsibility...

Nope. Only when the child is in their presence. That is one of my
reasons for supporting and encouraging homeschooling. So the parent
will be present more instead of the state being required to look after
the child.

and if the school nurse offers to
help...which they did even before stupid laws were passed... it was
appreciated.

What makes you think it isn't today? Are you saying that in your days
as a child if a school nurse made an error as serious as failing to
control possession of medications and just handed a bottle over to a
child she wouldn't have been open to suit? Or possible job loss?

Today, we see such help and favors as an entitlement and a
right. Bull...

Yes, you certainly are full of it.

It's not help and favors, it's the law, and executed by paid agents of
the state, school personnel.

bobb

Another babbling rant from the son of Blooming Idiot, by way of Dug.

Kane

"Kane" wrote in message
om...
"bobb" wrote in message
...
"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..
The school was wrong-plain and simple.

Having said that, I've been in the office in the morning when the
students
bring in their bottles of meds, breathing machines and vials for them,
and
similar things, no parent nearby and hand them to the nurse or
secretary.
There is a meds form on file from registration. Some of these kids are
as
young as 5. We have no way of knowing if this transfer had been
happening
in
this way for this child all year or not. If the parent was not
themselves
following policy to the letter, but doing what was easy for them, it
is
hard
to accept blaming the school for following the parent's lead.


Are you young people so totally unaware that children in past years
took
their medications without school intevention.

Nonsense. Schools have been involved in the monitoring and
administering supervision of meds and reacting to health concerns
since before I was born, a very long time ago, indeed. Where do you
get this nonsense.

Nonsense only from your perspective...or which age are you focusing on? The
kids I knew carried and posessed their own medications. If teacher either
doled out medications... or provided reminders... it was as a favor.. .not
an obligation, policy or law. Therein is the biggest difference. We want
teachers to assume, and be held for medical responsibility.. and that is not
right. The law argues otherwise.. but I differ with the law.

Not that teachers were
unwilling to offer reminders so kids didn't forget but there were no
legalities attached and thus no blame.

Absolute misinformation. I cannot remember a time when there were NOT
school nurses, in larger schools a fulltime staffer, now a roving
district nurse, and there WERE reminders, even to the point of coming
by the classroom to fetch the child or in schools with classroom PA
systesm, by the time I was in highschool, that summoned kids. You're a
caution, bobb.

Big city school kid? My schools were so small (just a few rooms) there was
no school nurse and teachers taught more than one grade. Not that you'd
care but our class size was about 43 pupils.


Between Doug's propagada pieces and your completely out of touch with
reality nonsense this would be a prime laboratory for a college class
on critical thinking errors.

Your perception is not my reality.

bobb


It remained the child's
responsibility.

B.S.

Of course, we didn't have 5 year old kids shuffled off to
strangers then either.

I beg your pardon. At what age did children start school where you
are? I started at five, at the latest 6, and every generation since
did.

If mom had to make a trip to school.... so be it.

Nonsense again. WWII was a perfect example. Most mothers worked not
only in the war effort but in more typically male jobs to replace the
men gone off to war. You are an ignorant ditz.

My own mother was one of those. And school personnel took over, as has
been the practice since, many of those duties you deny.

Or perhaps an older
brother or sister... even a nightbor's child.

BS. Total garbage.

Quit placing undue (legal)
responsibility on others.

"Placing?" No, you are completely wrong. Society placed the
responsibility on the teacher and the schools. In fact they did so
through the legal process.

in loco parentis
PRONUNCIATION: n lk p-rnts
ADVERB: In the position or place of a parent.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin in loc parentis : in, in + loc, ablative of locus,
place + parentis, genitive of parns, parent.

And of course it makes since, given that the parent may not be
locatable and the school cannot be running down the parent everytime
there is a decision to be made.

If you ask a teacher for help...be appreciative
that it is a favor... not an obiligation.

True of that were the case. It isn't asking, it is the law.

You forget that children are children...or we'd pop them out, give
them a ticket to NY and introduction to their new boss, and let them
make their own way after that.

A child cannot be relied upon to make reasoned decisions.

Kids are the parents responsibility...

Nope. Only when the child is in their presence. That is one of my
reasons for supporting and encouraging homeschooling. So the parent
will be present more instead of the state being required to look after
the child.

and if the school nurse offers to
help...which they did even before stupid laws were passed... it was
appreciated.

What makes you think it isn't today? Are you saying that in your days
as a child if a school nurse made an error as serious as failing to
control possession of medications and just handed a bottle over to a
child she wouldn't have been open to suit? Or possible job loss?

Today, we see such help and favors as an entitlement and a
right. Bull...

Yes, you certainly are full of it.

It's not help and favors, it's the law, and executed by paid agents of
the state, school personnel.

bobb

Another babbling rant from the son of Blooming Idiot, by way of Dug.

Kane