The storm hit

Well it is here, what I sensed was happening smacked me right between the eyes
tonight. I had thought all day at work today about what I felt was happening
over the past couple of weeks, my suspicion my daughter was pulling away from
the baby, I thought about the reality of the responses I received from the
babble I left here under "calm before the storm" post.I've watched my daughter
treat her b/f badly and watched her lie to me, him, and Mari about where she
has gone on a couple occasions, she has been pursueingsp.? other boys and not
good boys or age appropriate. I have talked till I am exhausted in mind and
soul with her. She has been asked all the questions she doesn't know what she
is looking for.I asked her today if she regretted her decision to have a baby,
she said she regretted the decision but not Jaime..........I asked her how her
relationship with J is going she said better, I asked her if she still wanted
the baby and she came back at me with yes and I said well I noticed you pulling
away from her, she said she doesn't like how long it takes to feed her, I said
well she's gotta eat .She then made comment about another girl in her class at
school that has a baby about 4-5 months old and she is giving her baby up for
adoption adn how Her words "wrong she felt that was because the baby has bonded
with her in that amount of time, and it just wasn't right." Then J showed up
to the house and the conversation changed to they were gonna get the baby ready
to go to her drs. appt. and off they went Baby in tow to her appt. came home
left the baby with me for about an hour so they could go and fill her
prescriptions and go to report an incident to the police involving them and 3
older boys chasing them the other day in the cars and getting out and beating
on the windows to get at them ? They learned the other boys names and went to
report them. Fine , and they got the lecture on that event too. I was feeling
her out to get answers to what I felt was going on with her pulling away . I
know the stress she has been under is hard , Gayles birthday was Sunday and
that was hard for us both. The case involving my step-son and my daughter has
come to a plea bargain, on our side because after counsiling and a long
conversation with the prosecuting attorney I talked to my daughter and found
she should not be put through the defenses beating during a trial.Emotionally
she is not able to get through this without a very bad end result and the
prosecuter suggested to plea bargain cause she was pretty sure he would take it
cause he was going to state prison if he could not win his case and winning
would be hard due to the evidence. She said there would be a mess to clean up
(my daughter) and I'd be the one to have to pick up the pieces after the trial
..he took the plea bargain and sentencing is coming up.
Back to the storm that is blowing me away even more so than I really
imagined it could be. last night about 9 p.m. my daughter comes in the room
where we are and says mom J is gonna take Jaime for a couple months to his
house.......................I did not expect the reaction I had and still have
within myself...........I am devastated, my heart has snapped, I can not stop
crying and I know she is only going 10 minutes down the road but this hurts
more than I can express in words and why am I so terribly heartbroken about
this ? The amount of emotion and pain that I feel is too intense for me to
deal with right now. We invested our hearts and our support for 13 months
during her pregnancy and for 4 months now with the baby in our home on a daily
basis and this is not easy at all......made excuses for the paternal
grandmothers actions toward them and the baby (she is embarrassed) **** her.
She has a 17 year old special needs son that she does not deal with, he is high
functioning and has been to our house and is the sweetest boy and NO I do not
understand a mother turning her back on any child, but see what she does with
him and my blood boils. This is not the person I want my granddaughter to have
to deal with on a daily basis.I swallow hard because I have no say now do I ?
She wouldn't come to the baby shower , refuses to invest a dime in the baby and
says if her boys didn't have it, she (the baby) don't need it. grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
When the baby has been fussy or not feeling well they called us and have even
just brought her back cause they were tired of dealing with it , and I again do
not want my granddaughter to suffer and I know in my heart of hearts the amount
of love and attention she is used to will not be the same.I have grieved in my
life tremendously and this is as bad as any pain I've felt so far, my heart is
broken , I am in pieces and I don't know how to do this.................I am
scared . I feel myself shutting down, closing,this hurts so bad .

'Kate wrote in message
((( Bev )))

'Kate



yeah, exactly. lots of hugs Bev!

Lisa

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Well it is here, what I sensed was happening smacked me right between the
eyes
tonight. I had thought all day at work today about what I felt was
happening
over the past couple of weeks, my suspicion my daughter was pulling away
from
the baby, I thought about the reality of the responses I received from the
babble I left here under "calm before the storm" post.I've watched my
daughter
treat her b/f badly and watched her lie to me, him, and Mari about where
she
has gone on a couple occasions, she has been pursueingsp.? other boys
and not
good boys or age appropriate. I have talked till I am exhausted in mind
and
soul with her. She has been asked all the questions she doesn't know what
she
is looking for.I asked her today if she regretted her decision to have a
baby,
she said she regretted the decision but not Jaime..........I asked her how
her
relationship with J is going she said better, I asked her if she still
wanted
the baby and she came back at me with yes and I said well I noticed you
pulling
away from her, she said she doesn't like how long it takes to feed her, I
said
well she's gotta eat .She then made comment about another girl in her
class at
school that has a baby about 4-5 months old and she is giving her baby up
for
adoption adn how Her words "wrong she felt that was because the baby has
bonded
with her in that amount of time, and it just wasn't right." Then J showed
up
to the house and the conversation changed to they were gonna get the baby
ready
to go to her drs. appt. and off they went Baby in tow to her appt. came
home
left the baby with me for about an hour so they could go and fill her
prescriptions and go to report an incident to the police involving them
and 3
older boys chasing them the other day in the cars and getting out and
beating
on the windows to get at them ? They learned the other boys names and went
to
report them. Fine , and they got the lecture on that event too. I was
feeling
her out to get answers to what I felt was going on with her pulling away .
I
know the stress she has been under is hard , Gayles birthday was Sunday
and
that was hard for us both. The case involving my step-son and my daughter
has
come to a plea bargain, on our side because after counsiling and a long
conversation with the prosecuting attorney I talked to my daughter and
found
she should not be put through the defenses beating during a
trial.Emotionally
she is not able to get through this without a very bad end result and the
prosecuter suggested to plea bargain cause she was pretty sure he would
take it
cause he was going to state prison if he could not win his case and
winning
would be hard due to the evidence. She said there would be a mess to clean
up
(my daughter) and I'd be the one to have to pick up the pieces after the
trial
.he took the plea bargain and sentencing is coming up.
Back to the storm that is blowing me away even more so than I really
imagined it could be. last night about 9 p.m. my daughter comes in the
room
where we are and says mom J is gonna take Jaime for a couple months to his
house.......................I did not expect the reaction I had and still
have
within myself...........I am devastated, my heart has snapped, I can not
stop
crying and I know she is only going 10 minutes down the road but this
hurts
more than I can express in words and why am I so terribly heartbroken
about
this ? The amount of emotion and pain that I feel is too intense for me
to
deal with right now. We invested our hearts and our support for 13 months
during her pregnancy and for 4 months now with the baby in our home on a
daily
basis and this is not easy at all......made excuses for the paternal
grandmothers actions toward them and the baby (she is embarrassed) ****
her.
She has a 17 year old special needs son that she does not deal with, he is
high
functioning and has been to our house and is the sweetest boy and NO I do
not
understand a mother turning her back on any child, but see what she does
with
him and my blood boils. This is not the person I want my granddaughter to
have
to deal with on a daily basis.I swallow hard because I have no say now do
I ?
She wouldn't come to the baby shower , refuses to invest a dime in the
baby and
says if her boys didn't have it, she (the baby) don't need it.
grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
When the baby has been fussy or not feeling well they called us and have
even
just brought her back cause they were tired of dealing with it , and I
again do
not want my granddaughter to suffer and I know in my heart of hearts the
amount
of love and attention she is used to will not be the same.I have grieved
in my
life tremendously and this is as bad as any pain I've felt so far, my
heart is
broken , I am in pieces and I don't know how to do this.................I
am
scared . I feel myself shutting down, closing,this hurts so bad .


You know Bev, although I haven't participated much, I have been very
interested reading your posts and the group's responses.

Over the years, we've had very young mothers come in that are so struggling
to make it on their own and are completely overwhelmed and broke. Always
always always, these young ladies have been told to consider returning home
to their families if the support is there.

So this is the first time that we have the mother that has been exactly what
we would hope those other young girls would find within their families.
That would be you It kinda confuses me some of the advice that has been
offered up, but, that could just be me.

Anyways. Now that you've had some time I hope that you've remembered that,
yes, you do indeed have the right to an opinion where your daughter is
making such major decisions about your granddaughter. This whole adoption
thing does not sound to me at all like an option. Sending the baby to her
father's house for "a couple months" is ridiculous as well. Tap dancing
with your daughter is only making things worse.

First. Are you aware of the recent literature with respect to
anti-depressants and teenagers? I don't recall if your daughter is still
taking medication or not, but if she is then it would be timely to revisit
current treatment with her doctor.

Second. Who's to say what a conventional family is anymore? The
unconventional is now conventional, so to speak. Stand up, raise your right
foot. Kay, now put it down. See that? You just put your foot down. Now,
make it clear to all exactly what you think.

For example,,,,what the **** is the point in the other family taking the
baby for a couple months?

For example...just because your daughter has had a baby, doesn't mean she
gets to do grown up stuff, it only means she has grown up responsibilities.
Tap dancing around it only exacerbates and enables.

And for goodness sake!!! Will you stop blaming yourself for everything?
Geez. It sure hasn't taught your daughter to take responsibility for
herself. Why should she? Everything seems to be your fault according to
you. **** that. Not every decision needs to be derived from some deep
rooted self analysis. Not every decision needs to be open for debate
either. It is absolutely OK to make a decision because it's , you know,
what you think.

I sure I have a point in all this, maybe you can find it.

Good luck Bev,,,
Lisa

WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Well it is here, what I sensed was happening smacked me right between
the eyes
tonight. I had thought all day at work today about what I felt was
happening
over the past couple of weeks, my suspicion my daughter was pulling away
from
the baby, I thought about the reality of the responses I received from
the
babble I left here under "calm before the storm" post.I've watched my
daughter
treat her b/f badly and watched her lie to me, him, and Mari about where
she
has gone on a couple occasions, she has been pursueingsp.? other boys
and not
good boys or age appropriate. I have talked till I am exhausted in mind
and
soul with her. She has been asked all the questions she doesn't know
what she
is looking for.I asked her today if she regretted her decision to have a
baby,
she said she regretted the decision but not Jaime..........I asked her
how her
relationship with J is going she said better, I asked her if she still
wanted
the baby and she came back at me with yes and I said well I noticed you
pulling
away from her, she said she doesn't like how long it takes to feed her,
I said
well she's gotta eat .She then made comment about another girl in her
class at
school that has a baby about 4-5 months old and she is giving her baby
up for
adoption adn how Her words "wrong she felt that was because the baby has
bonded
with her in that amount of time, and it just wasn't right." Then J
showed up
to the house and the conversation changed to they were gonna get the
baby ready
to go to her drs. appt. and off they went Baby in tow to her appt. came
home
left the baby with me for about an hour so they could go and fill her
prescriptions and go to report an incident to the police involving them
and 3
older boys chasing them the other day in the cars and getting out and
beating
on the windows to get at them ? They learned the other boys names and
went to
report them. Fine , and they got the lecture on that event too. I was
feeling
her out to get answers to what I felt was going on with her pulling away
.. I
know the stress she has been under is hard , Gayles birthday was Sunday
and
that was hard for us both. The case involving my step-son and my
daughter has
come to a plea bargain, on our side because after counsiling and a long
conversation with the prosecuting attorney I talked to my daughter and
found
she should not be put through the defenses beating during a
trial.Emotionally
she is not able to get through this without a very bad end result and
the
prosecuter suggested to plea bargain cause she was pretty sure he would
take it
cause he was going to state prison if he could not win his case and
winning
would be hard due to the evidence. She said there would be a mess to
clean up
(my daughter) and I'd be the one to have to pick up the pieces after the
trial
.he took the plea bargain and sentencing is coming up.
Back to the storm that is blowing me away even more so than I
really
imagined it could be. last night about 9 p.m. my daughter comes in the
room
where we are and says mom J is gonna take Jaime for a couple months to
his
house.......................I did not expect the reaction I had and
still have
within myself...........I am devastated, my heart has snapped, I can not
stop
crying and I know she is only going 10 minutes down the road but this
hurts
more than I can express in words and why am I so terribly heartbroken
about
this ? The amount of emotion and pain that I feel is too intense for me
to
deal with right now. We invested our hearts and our support for 13
months
during her pregnancy and for 4 months now with the baby in our home on a
daily
basis and this is not easy at all......made excuses for the paternal
grandmothers actions toward them and the baby (she is embarrassed) ****
her.
She has a 17 year old special needs son that she does not deal with, he
is high
functioning and has been to our house and is the sweetest boy and NO I
do not
understand a mother turning her back on any child, but see what she does
with
him and my blood boils. This is not the person I want my granddaughter
to have
to deal with on a daily basis.I swallow hard because I have no say now
do I ?
She wouldn't come to the baby shower , refuses to invest a dime in the
baby and
says if her boys didn't have it, she (the baby) don't need it.
grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
When the baby has been fussy or not feeling well they called us and have
even
just brought her back cause they were tired of dealing with it , and I
again do
not want my granddaughter to suffer and I know in my heart of hearts the
amount
of love and attention she is used to will not be the same.I have grieved
in my
life tremendously and this is as bad as any pain I've felt so far, my
heart is
broken , I am in pieces and I don't know how to do
this.................I am
scared . I feel myself shutting down, closing,this hurts so bad .

Maybe if you were not so self centered and selfish things would be
different.........but it is all about 'you'

"Lisa" wrote in message
. ..

'Kate wrote in message
((( Bev )))

'Kate



yeah, exactly. lots of hugs Bev!

Lisa


Bull......what she needs is a kick in the ass. She is so selfish and self
centered see can't see all the damage she has done and is doing.

On 20 Apr 2004 06:48:06 GMT,
(Bebelestrnge0721) wrote:


I am scared . I feel myself shutting down, closing,this hurts so bad .

Hi, Bebe. I wish I had something helpful to say, but all I have to
offer is empathy. Some of what you've been through is familiar to me,
and some is different from my life, but I sure recognise the feelings
of grief and being torn and trying to meet many different needs at
once while holding onto your sanity. That rush of sorrow that comes
sometimes - it's probably part of what keeps us together.

I have friends, a couple, whose middle daughter was raped at 15. Her
child was the result of that rape, and she too kept the baby. She went
on to have some very, very challenging times, as teen rape survivors
are often inclined to do. Her parents have been raising the little
girl, who's now finishing kindergarten, while her mother sort
of...went through things. Recovery, sorting herself out, and all that
that can entail. Now she (the child's mother) is coming together
again....gradually she's healing, and doing well. It's taken time, but
she's now with her parents (the baby's grandparents) and together,
they're parenting the little girl. I expect that as time goes on, the
grandparents (who are still mid forties) age, and the mom matures,
there'll be a gradual shifting of responsibility. Because the family
is all mutually very supportive, that can work. The little girl is
healthy and happy and bonded to all three. She's been well parented by
the grandparents, from whom the mother, by living all together with
them, is now learning excellent parenting skills herself.

I tell you that so you will know that as hard as things are, I *have*
seen a healthy child come from such difficult times, and I thought it
might help to hear that. I also want you to know that I understand how
hard it is to parent a daughter after assault or molestation, and how
frustrating and heartbreaking it is when your child develops such
serious difficulties that all the skill in the world doesn't seem to
make it possible to prevent. Lots of people make assumptions that if
your child has real problems, it's due to your parenting style, and
that can get really old, can't it? Hell, dyslexia alone, or sexual
assault alone, or loss of a significant adult alone, can cause major
challenges during adolesence. Your daughter and mine have withstood
all three.

Hang in there, Bev. There are no real answers, but you know that
already. All there is is giving it your all, and when you're too tired
and sad and fed up to go on, doing it anyway. That, and faith - in
your future, in hers, in everyone's strength, in whatever belief
system you hold. That's all you can do, and you're doing it.

Be well.

Cele

Subject: The storm hit
From: Cele
Date: 4/21/2004 2:07 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 20 Apr 2004 06:48:06 GMT,
(Bebelestrnge0721) wrote:


I am scared . I feel myself shutting down, closing,this hurts so bad .

Hi, Bebe. I wish I had something helpful to say, but all I have to
offer is empathy. Some of what you've been through is familiar to me,
and some is different from my life, but I sure recognise the feelings
of grief and being torn and trying to meet many different needs at
once while holding onto your sanity. That rush of sorrow that comes
sometimes - it's probably part of what keeps us together.

I have friends, a couple, whose middle daughter was raped at 15. Her
child was the result of that rape, and she too kept the baby. She went
on to have some very, very challenging times, as teen rape survivors
are often inclined to do. Her parents have been raising the little
girl, who's now finishing kindergarten, while her mother sort
of...went through things. Recovery, sorting herself out, and all that
that can entail. Now she (the child's mother) is coming together
again....gradually she's healing, and doing well. It's taken time, but
she's now with her parents (the baby's grandparents) and together,
they're parenting the little girl. I expect that as time goes on, the
grandparents (who are still mid forties) age, and the mom matures,
there'll be a gradual shifting of responsibility. Because the family
is all mutually very supportive, that can work. The little girl is
healthy and happy and bonded to all three. She's been well parented by
the grandparents, from whom the mother, by living all together with
them, is now learning excellent parenting skills herself.

I tell you that so you will know that as hard as things are, I *have*
seen a healthy child come from such difficult times, and I thought it
might help to hear that. I also want you to know that I understand how
hard it is to parent a daughter after assault or molestation, and how
frustrating and heartbreaking it is when your child develops such
serious difficulties that all the skill in the world doesn't seem to
make it possible to prevent. Lots of people make assumptions that if
your child has real problems, it's due to your parenting style, and
that can get really old, can't it? Hell, dyslexia alone, or sexual
assault alone, or loss of a significant adult alone, can cause major
challenges during adolesence. Your daughter and mine have withstood
all three.

Hang in there, Bev. There are no real answers, but you know that
already. All there is is giving it your all, and when you're too tired
and sad and fed up to go on, doing it anyway. That, and faith - in
your future, in hers, in everyone's strength, in whatever belief
system you hold. That's all you can do, and you're doing it.

Be well.

Cele


Cele, Now I had stopped crying earlier today.............My tears now are of
the understanding and support you have given me in this post. I knew when I
posted here from the start what I was in for, I thought my skin was tougher .
You have covered all the most important issues for myself and daughter in one
swoop of understanding. Thank you, I needed to know someone got it , that
someone understood the whole picture, did not persecute me for what I have
invested my heart in. There are no perfect families , I am trying to do the
best with what I was taught and the adult person I have become through
experience.I do believe my granddaughter will survive me, my daughters illness
( which is not severe mental illness) she has to work harder than the rest of
us have to , to maintain her emotions and behaviors.The Soc Sec
Phsyciatristsp. ? that examined her declared her Bi-polar and also saw her in
shackles and hand cuffs straight from juvenile detention which was about 2
years ago. She wasn't a criminal she was a child, my child, that could not
control her rage and anger after her step mothers death she was 14 years old
and tried like hell to help herself, she took the meds we forced her to take,
she cried out and no one would listen. I do and I don't have mixed feelings
about how the incident that put her in the system went. She was in an emotional
support class for a reason , she went off as emotionally disturbed people do
and she was restrained by a teacher that in my opinion didn't know how to do
her job, she got hit by a flying object as she was trying to control a raging
youth. She pressed charges of assualt and battery ? The point is I am torn
because it did not seem appropriate given the situation but it probably saved
my daughters life . the restrictions and lesson learned by being in lockup ,on
probation and the threat of losing her freedom clicked very well in her screwed
up head.That began a series of learning events for us both and we began to
heal. My daughter is still not exactly *right* but she is not a danger to
herself or others anymore. I have better parental control over her actions than
I ever had my entire life, because I was and fight still the "softy syndrome"
LOL! This has been a struggle and I do take offense to the negative ," give up
and remove the baby club" in this group.
Then there is my friend Paul.........I divorced one like him and the hair on my
neck stands up when I deal with him. I'm gonna just divorce him too and let it
be
We had a family meeting, Our family me, Mari ,Jimmy and Sara,(Jaime was
present and had no clue ) we as a united front will be continuing to support
one another through all this , Jaime is I am so glad to say staying here and we
are working on my daughters continued healing , I have all the tools at my
finger tips on this, all the agencies there are to assist us have been in place
before , have supported us and will continue to. Anyone that is in fear for the
babies well being can relax.........the state has been watching over us for
three years now and they have'nt declared us a lousy family and not worthy of
compassion and support yet, they haven't taken the children and jailed me for
abuse and I am betting you that if my sexuality and trouble with alcohol 2
years ago wasn't enough to bring the house down then , I think this won't tear
down the walls of our home either.
Thank you Cele from that real deep part of my heart that you understand
((((Cele)))
Bev

WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, when I read this first of all, I thought "Oh geesh Paul, knock it
off, you aren't helping."

Then I read all the rationalizing, nonsense and I have to agree.

And no, it's not because you've decided not to take the advice about adoption,
that's a hard decision - but because you never really considered anything
anybody said about it. You want to teach your daughter a lesson. No that's
crap. You don't even care about your daughter. You've become attached to that
baby for your own self, your own comfort, your own self affirmation and you
can't let go because of your unhealthy attachment. Sick sick sick.

God help your family, you sure as hell aren't going to let anybody else.

Finsihed here because it's just breaking my heart and there's not a damn thing
I can do about it.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

On 21 Apr 2004 12:37:43 GMT, oaway (Joelle) wrote:

WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, when I read this first of all, I thought "Oh geesh Paul, knock it
off, you aren't helping."

Then I read all the rationalizing, nonsense and I have to agree.

And no, it's not because you've decided not to take the advice about adoption,
that's a hard decision - but because you never really considered anything
anybody said about it. You want to teach your daughter a lesson. No that's
crap. You don't even care about your daughter. You've become attached to that
baby for your own self, your own comfort, your own self affirmation and you
can't let go because of your unhealthy attachment. Sick sick sick.

God help your family, you sure as hell aren't going to let anybody else.

Finsihed here because it's just breaking my heart and there's not a damn thing
I can do about it.

I agree 100%. That baby is in the wrong home. My heart goes out to all
the children in this situation.

lm

"Joelle" wrote in message
...

WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, when I read this first of all, I thought "Oh geesh Paul, knock
it
off, you aren't helping."

Then I read all the rationalizing, nonsense and I have to agree.

And no, it's not because you've decided not to take the advice about
adoption,
that's a hard decision - but because you never really considered anything
anybody said about it. You want to teach your daughter a lesson. No
that's
crap. You don't even care about your daughter. You've become attached to
that
baby for your own self, your own comfort, your own self affirmation and
you
can't let go because of your unhealthy attachment. Sick sick sick.

God help your family, you sure as hell aren't going to let anybody else.

Finsihed here because it's just breaking my heart and there's not a damn
thing
I can do about it.

I've seen that since day one of her postings, and ignored her for the most
part, especially after her off the wall accusations about being
anti-homosexual.......(which BTW I had no idea until she brought the issue
up) Every one of her posts have been about 'her' not about what is best
for the child.......and it is obvious from the results of her own child
raising that she IS NOT what is best for the infant.



Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle