The storm hit

"Paul Fritz" wrote in message
...



WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



We did kind of call this one at the beginning, did we not? None of this
surprised me, I just decided that I already said my share, voiced my
opinion, and there is no need to repeat myself. Now what I mean?

Subject: The storm hit
From: oaway (Joelle)
Date: 4/21/2004 8:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, when I read this first of all, I thought "Oh geesh Paul, knock it
off, you aren't helping."

Then I read all the rationalizing, nonsense and I have to agree.

And no, it's not because you've decided not to take the advice about
adoption,
that's a hard decision - but because you never really considered anything
anybody said about it. You want to teach your daughter a lesson. No that's
crap. You don't even care about your daughter. You've become attached to
that
baby for your own self, your own comfort, your own self affirmation and you
can't let go because of your unhealthy attachment. Sick sick sick.

God help your family, you sure as hell aren't going to let anybody else.

Finsihed here because it's just breaking my heart and there's not a damn
thing
I can do about it.

Yeah I am done too, you are wrong and that about does it.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Subject: The storm hit
From: oaway (Joelle)
Date: 4/21/2004 8:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, when I read this first of all, I thought "Oh geesh Paul,
knock it
off, you aren't helping."

Then I read all the rationalizing, nonsense and I have to agree.

And no, it's not because you've decided not to take the advice about
adoption,
that's a hard decision - but because you never really considered
anything
anybody said about it. You want to teach your daughter a lesson. No
that's
crap. You don't even care about your daughter. You've become attached
to
that
baby for your own self, your own comfort, your own self affirmation and
you
can't let go because of your unhealthy attachment. Sick sick sick.

God help your family, you sure as hell aren't going to let anybody
else.

Finsihed here because it's just breaking my heart and there's not a
damn
thing
I can do about it.

Yeah I am done too, you are wrong and that about does it.

i.e. srcew the kid....it's all about me


Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Lisa" wrote in message
. ..

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Well it is here, what I sensed was happening smacked me right between
the
eyes
tonight. I had thought all day at work today about what I felt was
happening
over the past couple of weeks, my suspicion my daughter was pulling away
from
the baby, I thought about the reality of the responses I received from
the
babble I left here under "calm before the storm" post.I've watched my
daughter
treat her b/f badly and watched her lie to me, him, and Mari about where
she
has gone on a couple occasions, she has been pursueingsp.? other boys
and not
good boys or age appropriate. I have talked till I am exhausted in mind
and
soul with her. She has been asked all the questions she doesn't know
what
she
is looking for.I asked her today if she regretted her decision to have a
baby,
she said she regretted the decision but not Jaime..........I asked her
how
her
relationship with J is going she said better, I asked her if she still
wanted
the baby and she came back at me with yes and I said well I noticed you
pulling
away from her, she said she doesn't like how long it takes to feed her,
I
said
well she's gotta eat .She then made comment about another girl in her
class at
school that has a baby about 4-5 months old and she is giving her baby
up
for
adoption adn how Her words "wrong she felt that was because the baby has
bonded
with her in that amount of time, and it just wasn't right." Then J
showed
up
to the house and the conversation changed to they were gonna get the
baby
ready
to go to her drs. appt. and off they went Baby in tow to her appt. came
home
left the baby with me for about an hour so they could go and fill her
prescriptions and go to report an incident to the police involving them
and 3
older boys chasing them the other day in the cars and getting out and
beating
on the windows to get at them ? They learned the other boys names and
went
to
report them. Fine , and they got the lecture on that event too. I was
feeling
her out to get answers to what I felt was going on with her pulling away
..
I
know the stress she has been under is hard , Gayles birthday was Sunday
and
that was hard for us both. The case involving my step-son and my
daughter
has
come to a plea bargain, on our side because after counsiling and a long
conversation with the prosecuting attorney I talked to my daughter and
found
she should not be put through the defenses beating during a
trial.Emotionally
she is not able to get through this without a very bad end result and
the
prosecuter suggested to plea bargain cause she was pretty sure he would
take it
cause he was going to state prison if he could not win his case and
winning
would be hard due to the evidence. She said there would be a mess to
clean
up
(my daughter) and I'd be the one to have to pick up the pieces after the
trial
.he took the plea bargain and sentencing is coming up.
Back to the storm that is blowing me away even more so than I
really
imagined it could be. last night about 9 p.m. my daughter comes in the
room
where we are and says mom J is gonna take Jaime for a couple months to
his
house.......................I did not expect the reaction I had and
still
have
within myself...........I am devastated, my heart has snapped, I can not
stop
crying and I know she is only going 10 minutes down the road but this
hurts
more than I can express in words and why am I so terribly heartbroken
about
this ? The amount of emotion and pain that I feel is too intense for me
to
deal with right now. We invested our hearts and our support for 13
months
during her pregnancy and for 4 months now with the baby in our home on a
daily
basis and this is not easy at all......made excuses for the paternal
grandmothers actions toward them and the baby (she is embarrassed) ****
her.
She has a 17 year old special needs son that she does not deal with, he
is
high
functioning and has been to our house and is the sweetest boy and NO I
do
not
understand a mother turning her back on any child, but see what she does
with
him and my blood boils. This is not the person I want my granddaughter
to
have
to deal with on a daily basis.I swallow hard because I have no say now
do
I ?
She wouldn't come to the baby shower , refuses to invest a dime in the
baby and
says if her boys didn't have it, she (the baby) don't need it.
grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
When the baby has been fussy or not feeling well they called us and have
even
just brought her back cause they were tired of dealing with it , and I
again do
not want my granddaughter to suffer and I know in my heart of hearts the
amount
of love and attention she is used to will not be the same.I have grieved
in my
life tremendously and this is as bad as any pain I've felt so far, my
heart is
broken , I am in pieces and I don't know how to do
this.................I
am
scared . I feel myself shutting down, closing,this hurts so bad .


You know Bev, although I haven't participated much, I have been very
interested reading your posts and the group's responses.

Over the years, we've had very young mothers come in that are so
struggling
to make it on their own and are completely overwhelmed and broke. Always
always always, these young ladies have been told to consider returning
home
to their families if the support is there.

So this is the first time that we have the mother that has been exactly
what
we would hope those other young girls would find within their families.
That would be you It kinda confuses me some of the advice that has
been
offered up, but, that could just be me.

Anyways. Now that you've had some time I hope that you've remembered
that,
yes, you do indeed have the right to an opinion where your daughter is
making such major decisions about your granddaughter. This whole adoption
thing does not sound to me at all like an option. Sending the baby to her
father's house for "a couple months" is ridiculous as well. Tap dancing
with your daughter is only making things worse.

First. Are you aware of the recent literature with respect to
anti-depressants and teenagers? I don't recall if your daughter is still
taking medication or not, but if she is then it would be timely to revisit
current treatment with her doctor.

Second. Who's to say what a conventional family is anymore? The
unconventional is now conventional, so to speak. Stand up, raise your
right
foot. Kay, now put it down. See that? You just put your foot down.
Now,
make it clear to all exactly what you think.

For example,,,,what the **** is the point in the other family taking the
baby for a couple months?

For example...just because your daughter has had a baby, doesn't mean she
gets to do grown up stuff, it only means she has grown up
responsibilities.
Tap dancing around it only exacerbates and enables.

And for goodness sake!!! Will you stop blaming yourself for everything?
Geez. It sure hasn't taught your daughter to take responsibility for
herself. Why should she? Everything seems to be your fault according to
you. **** that. Not every decision needs to be derived from some deep
rooted self analysis. Not every decision needs to be open for debate
either. It is absolutely OK to make a decision because it's , you know,
what you think.

I sure I have a point in all this, maybe you can find it.

Good luck Bev,,,
Lisa

Subject: The storm hit
From: "Lisa"
Date: 4/20/2004 9:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


You know Bev, although I haven't participated much, I have been very
interested reading your posts and the group's responses.

Lisa, I meant to reply to you much sooner, things got a bit busy here .

Over the years, we've had very young mothers come in that are so struggling
to make it on their own and are completely overwhelmed and broke. Always
always always, these young ladies have been told to consider returning home
to their families if the support is there.

I would agree, Family support is what is best, if at all possible.

So this is the first time that we have the mother that has been exactly what
we would hope those other young girls would find within their families.
That would be you

Thank you , it is good to hear words of encouragement at a time you are doing
the best you can to do the right thing for your family.


It kinda confuses me some of the advice that has been
offered up, but, that could just be me.

No, I don't think it is "just you" it'd be me as well , I am confused or I
guess I should say was confused............ I figured most out, I am not a very
likeable person here, I am different, not traditional, and I made mistakes that
I admitted to. Some feel I deserve to lose my daughter and family , maybe cut
my wrists and die for my sins. Oh Well , to each thier own opinion, you know
what "they" say, we all have one, me too ! giggle

Anyways. Now that you've had some time I hope that you've remembered that,
yes, you do indeed have the right to an opinion where your daughter is
making such major decisions about your granddaughter.

Yes, I did figure it out, I have a lot of say, right now, it is my job to help
my daughter cope with her emotions and decisions , now that we know there is a
medical influence in what has been going on. Postpartum Depression.

This whole adoption
thing does not sound to me at all like an option.

It is not when the parents of the baby do not want to do it. It was never *my*
decision to make. Or anyone elses for that matter..........

Sending the baby to her
father's house for "a couple months" is ridiculous as well. Tap dancing
with your daughter is only making things worse.

I feel the same way, and I did not understand what was going on with my
daughter, up until a couple weeks ago , she was functioning as normal. We have
had a schedule for everyone doing their share to take care of the baby and our
own responsibilities as well such as work and school. This wasn't making any
sense to me and threw me for an emotional ride . Came in and shared for some
input and well as much as I am aware my short comings over the past few years
have infected my family with the dysfunction virus, I didn't expect it to be
the reason my daughter was slipping outta line. I will continue to fight the
virus and do as best I can to see my daughter through this depression and back
on track. I know she is trying her best. As I am doing my best today.

First. Are you aware of the recent literature with respect to
anti-depressants and teenagers? I don't recall if your daughter is still
taking medication or not, but if she is then it would be timely to revisit
current treatment with her doctor.

Yes , we took a look at that and the Pdoc says she has been on it for
more than a year . Prozac, and it made a world of difference for the better for
my daughter ........he increased it 10 mg. and if there is no change in her
depression we will look at other options.

Second. Who's to say what a conventional family is anymore? The
unconventional is now conventional, so to speak. Stand up, raise your right
foot. Kay, now put it down. See that? You just put your foot down. Now,
make it clear to all exactly what you think.

You're right, and Let me agree that we have not been a conventional family
for over 16 years . Why should we try and be anything different than what we
are? When my partner died my oldest who was 19 or 20 years old wrote a eulogy
of what she felt growing up in our family, I will post it here , Why? you ask?
because it says something loud and clear to the ignorant.This is how my
daughter that grew up from the age of 6 years old within this *family* made me
even more sure I did not destroy my children with the way my family was built.
People that treated us badly for years came up to me that day and apologised
for being so shallow minded. I am proud of the young woman my daughter has
become. I haven't always been a f*ck up mom. I have been human though.

For example,,,,what the **** is the point in the other family taking the
baby for a couple months?

For example...just because your daughter has had a baby, doesn't mean she
gets to do grown up stuff, it only means she has grown up responsibilities.
Tap dancing around it only exacerbates and enables.

Agree with you again, I am still the mom in this house ! She may have had
a baby but untill she is on her own and taking care of the baby fully on her
own which she cannot do till she is at least 18, I am it. I make the important
decisions about *MY* daughter. She does respect that, couple years ago I had NO
control of her, my fault yes, I'd punish she would say f you and out the door
she went. Today she may still mumble some unpleasant words but she stays in and
obeys me .This is a very big improvement. I have suceeded in some repair and
improved some of what I lost. I am still effective.
And for goodness sake!!! Will you stop blaming yourself for everything?
Geez. It sure hasn't taught your daughter to take responsibility for
herself. Why should she? Everything seems to be your fault according to
you. **** that. Not every decision needs to be derived from some deep
rooted self analysis. Not every decision needs to be open for debate
either. It is absolutely OK to make a decision because it's , you know,
what you think.

By now you should have an idea why I have blamed myself for a lot and
that is why part of this treatment I received here has not thrown me too deep.
I did cause some of the mess, I surely would change it if I had it to do all
over but I don't and this is why I live as best I can in today and have been
doing my best to make the difference in my future as well as my childrens and
now grandchilds . I can't live in the past and I try to be honest and open and
not make the same mistakes . Hopefully I have learned well what I should'nt do
when it gets rough , I think I have.

I sure I have a point in all this, maybe you can find it.

The point I got was that you truelly give a **** lisa you looked at more
than how awful a parent I must be and I thank you for not feeling the need to
go "there" . You looked at what I am doing today to make a difference in my
daughters life and not how I screwed her life up in the past , you wished me
luck knowing I am trying and you even suggested the medication possibly being a
factor in my daughters change. You have supported in a compassionate way , not
that the tough approach is always a bad thing but really there were some way
out there comments made that really are for nothing more than to hate.

Good luck Bev,,,

Thank you ! Bev
Lisa

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
Thank you ! Bev


Ta.

I came across a few really great words of wisdom this weekend just past.

Keep discussions in the present. Learn from the past, forgive and then move
along.