The big measles lie

"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal. (Feb 3, 2010 Fox News)
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/w...k-blaxill.html

http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before vaccination
in 1968!

john wrote:
"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal. (Feb 3, 2010 Fox News)
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/w...k-blaxill.html

http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before vaccination
in 1968!

So some children are still dying from measles. And, some children are
also have life-problems from measles encephalopathy, like hearing loss.
And that's ok with you. Got it.

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:45:48 -0000, "john" wrote:


http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before vaccination
in 1968!

As usual you torture figures to suit your preconceptions. There were
two factors which influenced infectious disease decline. Social
(including better hygiene, living and nutrition) and vaccination.

Prior to the two World Wars the former were the predominant influence
on most infectious diseases. However, after the end of the war the
rate of decline slowed and, in the case of measles, by 1954 had
stopped and for the next 12 years remained steady at about 75 deaths
per year.

The next decline only took place after the introduction of measles
vaccination and between 1968 and 1989 dropped to about 1-3. Since
then it has stayed at that level.

"dr_jeff" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of
the MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal. (Feb 3, 2010 Fox News)
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/w...k-blaxill.html

http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before
vaccination in 1968!

So some children are still dying from measles. And, some children are also
have life-problems from measles encephalopathy, like hearing loss. And
that's ok with you. Got it.

use vitamin C if you actually cared about that
http://www.whale.to/a/levy_h.html
and arren't we forgetting about vaccine derived encephalopathy?
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/encephalomyelitis.html
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/encephalitis.htm

"Dr. Levy shows that many viral diseases such as polio, hepatitis, and
encephalitis have been consistently cured by high doses of vitamin C given
intravenously.....outlines the evidence that many potent toxins are
completely neutralized by a prompt and vigorous dosing of vitamin C, even
though current medicine offers little or no other effective treatments for
them. Dr. Levy cites literature that shows vitamin C can completely reverse
and clinically cure advanced poisonings from agents such as tetanus toxin,
mushroom toxin, barbiturates, snakebite venom, and heavy metals like lead,
to name only a few. Because of this toxin-neutralizing ability, Dr. Levy
further notes that the scientific evidence supports vitamin C as being an
ideal agent for treating many of the infectious diseases that also produce
very potent toxins, such as diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (whooping
cough)."---Book review 2002
"Six cases of virus encephalitis were treated and cured with vitamin C
injections. Two cases were associated with virus pneumonia; one followed
chickenpox, one mumps, one measles and one a combination of measles and
mumps. In the case that followed the measles-mumps complex, definite
evidence was found to confirm the belief that massive, frequent injections
are necessary in treating virus infections with vitamin C............A lad
of 12 years had generalized headache a week after having mumps, this
followed by malaise, and in 12 hours a lethargic state and a fever of 105°.
Admitted to hospital he was given 2000 mg. of vitamin C then, and 1000 mg.
every two hours. Following the third injection he. was sitting up in bed,
laughing, talking, begging for food and completely without pain........Of
mumps, 33 cases were treated with ascorbic acid. When vitamin C was given at
the peak of the infection the fever was gone within 24 hours, the pain
within 36 hours, the swelling in 48 to 72 hours. Two cases were complicated
with orchitis. A young man of 23 years developed bilateral orchitis one
Friday morning, by seven o'clock that night he was in severe pain, had a
fever of 105° and was nursing testicles the size of tennis balls. Vitamin C
was started at this time - 1000 mg. every two hours, intravenously. The pain
began to subside following the first injection and ceased in 12 hours. There
was no fever after 36 hours. The patient was out of bed feeling his old self
after 60 hours...........A second boy, aged 11, was allowed to develop mumps
to the point of maximum swelling without any therapy, then given vitamin C,
1000 mg. intramuscularly, every two to four hours. This lad was entirely
well in 48 hours."--Dr Klenner The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other
Virus Diseases with Vitamin C Fred R. Klenner, M.D. 1949



as for hearing loss

[March 2007] PARENTS FIGHT TO PROVE GIRL LEFT DEAF BY MMR VACCINE

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/deafness.htm

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:45:48 -0000, "john" wrote:


http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before
vaccination
in 1968!

As usual you torture figures to suit your preconceptions. There were
two factors which influenced infectious disease decline. Social
(including better hygiene, living and nutrition) and vaccination.

so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
vaccination.

"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.


Prior to the two World Wars the former were the predominant influence
on most infectious diseases. However, after the end of the war the
rate of decline slowed and, in the case of measles, by 1954 had
stopped and for the next 12 years remained steady at about 75 deaths
per year.

The next decline only took place after the introduction of measles
vaccination and between 1968 and 1989 dropped to about 1-3. Since
then it has stayed at that level.

I know the stats, have a look at the graph
http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html

as you seem to be deluded about the part vaccination played

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0000, "john" wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote
so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
vaccination.

"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.

He appears to have said nothing of the sort. Having improved public
health to a point where further health returns (for infectious
diseases) were no longer happening the later improvement is clearly
down to vaccination as the figures you kindly provided show. There is
nothing in his statement which is either untrue or inconsistent with
that fact.

The next decline only took place after the introduction of measles
vaccination and between 1968 and 1989 dropped to about 1-3. Since
then it has stayed at that level.

I know the stats, have a look at the graph

The graph and figures you derived it from clearly supports what I have
said. It is not my fault you have chosen a scale which hides the
effect you don't want people to see.

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0000, "john" wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote
so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
vaccination.

"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.

He appears to have said nothing of the sort. Having improved public
health to a point where further health returns (for infectious
diseases) were no longer happening the later improvement is clearly
down to vaccination as the figures you kindly provided show. There is
nothing in his statement which is either untrue or inconsistent with
that fact.

Peter, the main reason measles *deaths* plummeted after WWII was the
availability of antibiotics to treat pneumonia, a common complication of
measles. The rate of measles encephalitis wasn't affected, so most of
the deaths were then due to this complication, as were the many cases of
brain damage resulting in blindness, etc. IIRC, before the measles
vaccine, measles encephalitis was the most common cause of blindness in
children.

John likes to distort statistics by focusing on deaths rather than
incidence. Better supportive care (e.g. iron lungs for polio) and
antibiotics can reduce the *death* rate but not the incidence of a
disease. Death isn't the only undesirable outcome.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0000, "john" wrote:


"Peter Parry" wrote
so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
vaccination.

"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of
the
MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.

He appears to have said nothing of the sort.

he did actually, look at the video.

You can't see the truth as it would bust your pharma reality

wrote in message
.. .


Peter, the main reason measles *deaths* plummeted after WWII was the
availability of antibiotics to treat pneumonia, a common complication of
measles. The rate of measles encephalitis wasn't affected, so most of
the deaths were then due to this complication, as were the many cases of
brain damage resulting in blindness, etc. IIRC, before the measles
vaccine, measles encephalitis was the most common cause of blindness in
children.

John likes to distort statistics by focusing on deaths rather than
incidence. Better supportive care (e.g. iron lungs for polio) and
antibiotics can reduce the *death* rate but not the incidence of a
disease. Death isn't the only undesirable outcome.

I focus on deaths as that is the only statistic required to be kept by law,
all the otehr ones, incidence etc can be manipulated to suit, and were, now
measles has to be diagnosed by lab

and deaths would be tied to morbidity I would have thought

they concentrate on incidence as they control reporting on that, and the
only reason anyone cared about incidence was due to the death rate

and anyway, naturopaths in 1860 never lost a case of measles

also 50% plus deaths were due to chemotherapy

these quotes show the real story http://www.whale.to/m/quotes19.html

either way, as you say, vaccination played a minute part at best (in reality
nil), contrary to what parents are sold, as this propagndist said--100%

john wrote:
"dr_jeff" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
"It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of
the MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal. (Feb 3, 2010 Fox News)
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/w...k-blaxill.html

http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before
vaccination in 1968!
So some children are still dying from measles. And, some children are also
have life-problems from measles encephalopathy, like hearing loss. And
that's ok with you. Got it.

use vitamin C if you actually cared about that
http://www.whale.to/a/levy_h.html
and arren't we forgetting about vaccine derived encephalopathy?
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/encephalomyelitis.html
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/encephalitis.htm

"Dr. Levy shows that many viral diseases such as polio, hepatitis, and
encephalitis have been consistently cured by high doses of vitamin C given
intravenously

And this work was published in what journals?

Jeff