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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 26th 03, 03:15 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

H Schinske wrote:

Sue ) wrote:


Well imo, you are essentially telling your daughter that rules don't matter,
school doesn't matter and that she can stay home at any whim. What is she
going to do in the real adult world when she has a job? Stay home because
she feels like it.


And what are you telling your child when you say that school is important to
stay in even when you are not learning anything? I think that is a message that
is being put across to way too many bright kids, and one reason why so many
people don't have the guts to leave dead-end jobs or work to make their lives
more interesting.



Wellll.....yes and no. I agree wholeheartedly that
it's important to teach *all* children (and particularly
bright children) to be creative and make changes to make
their lives better. On the other hand, it is even more
important with bright kids to teach them to look for
acceptable ways to do that. It's important they don't
just decide they're so above and beyond everyone else
that the rules don't apply to them and they can do whatever
they damn well please (a thought process it's easy for
bright kids to fall into). They need to be taught to
know and understand the rules and to think of win-win
solutions and ways to get what they need that respect
the process and other people when they have a legitimate
need to work outside an established process.
A child who needs enriching activity should get
it, but not at the expense of undue burdens on others
when there are (or should be) other alternatives. I
was lucky to have a lot of accommodations, many quite
creative, from elementary teachers when I needed
enriching activities, but we always worked out a way
to do it that didn't create unnecessary hardships.
Now and again one may run into an unreasonable teacher
who isn't willing to be flexible at all, and then
maybe one has to work harder to find something
acceptable, but often teachers are *quite* willing to
help if only a reasonable approach can be found.
It seems to me that bright kids, in particular,
can be held to a high standard of being *creative*
and *respectful* in their efforts to get what they
need. If they're so bright, surely they can figure
that out--and those problem-solving skills will go a
long way toward helping them get what they need the
rest of their life, rather than just quitting when
the going gets boring! I'm not suggesting that
bright kids should be abandoned to figure it all out
on their own, or that if they can't come up with
a workable idea they should just be left bored and
underserved, or that they should be expected to deal
successfully with unreasonable adults. I'm just saying
that insisting on respect for rules and processes and
other people's time and energy *isn't* the same thing
as saying one has to do that mindlessly and accept the
status quo. There is usually a middle ground somewhere
for those with the patience, diplomacy, and tenacity to
find it--and gifted kids need to learn those skills
because they'll be using them *all* their lives to get
along in the real world.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #42  
Old October 26th 03, 03:25 PM
Sue
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Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

dragonlady wrote in message
Several years ago, my daughter became severely ill with hepatitis.
Obviously, she was going to miss a lot of school. What I wanted was
support for homebound teachers for her classes, and, since we lived
across the street from the school, I wanted her to be able to return to
classes part time when she was strong enough first for Chemistry and
when she could handle two classes a day for Spanish -- the two classes
where actually being there mattered most. I spent several weeks getting
a run around from the school (the principal wanted me to withdraw her
from school all together and put her in independent study until she was
strong enough to come back full time). Then i got the expected call
from the county health department that does the contact tracing for Hep.
B. She asked if there was anything I needed. I described the situation
with the school, and she said she'd take care of it. Within less than
five hours, I had a call from the school giving us exactly what I'd been
asking for!

I am not an uneducated person, and I knew that what I was asking for was

legal and appropriate -- I just hadn't had the clout to pull the right
strings. Frankly, that makes me very angry on behalf of the kids whose
parents don't know their legal entitlements and never hook up with
someone who can help them.

meh


Since Allison has a chronic medical condition and was hospitalized for eight
weeks in 2001, I didn't have any problems what so ever on getting her needs
met. All it took was the doctor faxing over a request to get a modified
schedule, then came the testing and then shortly after that came the POHI
label. Now as it stands, if she is absent a consecutive 5 days due to
illness, she automatically gets home-bound schooling at home or at the
hospital if she is admitted. Some districts you have to pull teeth to get
anything done and others are more willing. I happened to be one of the lucky
ones in that my school's district is very willing to help. Also, I think it
helps that the school knows me and our family very well. I volunteer a lot
of my time to the school and I am a board member on the PTA.

--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...


  #43  
Old October 26th 03, 04:54 PM
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Sue wrote:


I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't
think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I
understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into
one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't
participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that
they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other
kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child
that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't
know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just
biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently.



I certainly won't contest your impression of your
district, as I have no experience of it. We have a similar
program (center based GT program), however, and it is *totally*
different. The kids are delightful, very well behaved, and
highly supportive of the school and school programs--not to
mention that their parents are some of the most highly
active in the whole school, and their efforts benefit the
*whole* school, not just the center based GT part. I'll
agree that the label is unfortunate, though I'm not
sure what the program ought to be called.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #44  
Old October 26th 03, 05:08 PM
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
Wellll.....yes and no. I agree wholeheartedly that
it's important to teach *all* children (and particularly
bright children) to be creative and make changes to make
their lives better. On the other hand, it is even more
important with bright kids to teach them to look for
acceptable ways to do that. It's important they don't
just decide they're so above and beyond everyone else
that the rules don't apply to them and they can do whatever
they damn well please (a thought process it's easy for
bright kids to fall into). They need to be taught to
know and understand the rules and to think of win-win
solutions and ways to get what they need that respect
the process and other people when they have a legitimate
need to work outside an established process.
A child who needs enriching activity should get
it, but not at the expense of undue burdens on others
when there are (or should be) other alternatives. I
was lucky to have a lot of accommodations, many quite
creative, from elementary teachers when I needed
enriching activities, but we always worked out a way
to do it that didn't create unnecessary hardships.
Now and again one may run into an unreasonable teacher
who isn't willing to be flexible at all, and then
maybe one has to work harder to find something
acceptable, but often teachers are *quite* willing to
help if only a reasonable approach can be found.
It seems to me that bright kids, in particular,
can be held to a high standard of being *creative*
and *respectful* in their efforts to get what they
need. If they're so bright, surely they can figure
that out--and those problem-solving skills will go a
long way toward helping them get what they need the
rest of their life, rather than just quitting when
the going gets boring! I'm not suggesting that
bright kids should be abandoned to figure it all out
on their own, or that if they can't come up with
a workable idea they should just be left bored and
underserved, or that they should be expected to deal
successfully with unreasonable adults. I'm just saying
that insisting on respect for rules and processes and
other people's time and energy *isn't* the same thing
as saying one has to do that mindlessly and accept the
status quo. There is usually a middle ground somewhere
for those with the patience, diplomacy, and tenacity to
find it--and gifted kids need to learn those skills
because they'll be using them *all* their lives to get
along in the real world.

Best wishes,
Ericka


You are able to articulate in writing better than I can, but I agree with
you. I wasn't saying at all that the child should be just left to be bored
and yes accommdations should be made, but not at the expense of taking away
the teacher's time from the other students. Rules should be followed, not
blindly, but they should be followed if one is going to be in that
envoirnment. Like I said before, if the OP is not happy with what she is
getting, then she needs to make changes. If I wasn't happy with something at
the school and let me tell you I have been, I see to that it is changed or a
compromise is made.

I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't
think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I
understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into
one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't
participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that
they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other
kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child
that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't
know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just
biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...



  #45  
Old October 26th 03, 05:56 PM
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

In article , Sue says...



You are able to articulate in writing better than I can, but I agree with
you. I wasn't saying at all that the child should be just left to be bored
and yes accommdations should be made, but not at the expense of taking away
the teacher's time from the other students. Rules should be followed, not
blindly, but they should be followed if one is going to be in that
envoirnment. Like I said before, if the OP is not happy with what she is
getting, then she needs to make changes. If I wasn't happy with something at
the school and let me tell you I have been, I see to that it is changed or a
compromise is made.


I just started following thsi thread, but Ericka, and you and others have
expressed my opinion on it already.


I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I don't
think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I
understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into
one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they don't
participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that
they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other
kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child
that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't
know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just
biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently.


This is one of the reasons why I have mixed feelings about tracking.

I had the experience of moving from one state to another, but actually having
must of my cohort move with me. When I ws in junior high, my father's SAC
squadron was transferred from Texas to New Hampshire, and many of the kids I
knew transferred into the Portsmouth, NH school district with me.

Texas didnt' track, New Hampshire did; we were all tested, and I was put on the
math/science accelerated track. The social pressure was definitely on to not
socialize with kids on lower tracks. Local kids hadn't socialized with them for
some time, but for the Air Force kids it came as something of a shock.

Another thing they which was well-intentioned but just added to the accelerated
kids' feelings of superiority is that they put us with the special education
kids (including some retarded adults) for home ec and shop. (This was back when
girls all took home ec and boys all took shop and never the twain did meet, but
anyhow..) This was supposed to teach us patience, understanding, and humility,
but it just came off as we're not only the smartest, but we're the only ones who
are socially sensititve enough to work with the special ed kids.

Banty

  #46  
Old October 26th 03, 06:03 PM
Denise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?


"Sue" wrote in message
news:UpSdncR1O6okbAaiRVn-

I don't have a very high opinion of the brighter kids. It's not that I

don't
think they are or that they deserve a different teaching method and I
understand that they do exist, but at our school they are segregated into
one part of the school, they don't socialize with the other kids, they

don't
participate in any of the school functions and they are made to feel that
they are superior. Even the name of the program is insulting to the other
kids. It is called the Talented and Gifted program. Well imo, every child
that attends that school is talented and gifted in some way. And I don't
know why it is, but they are usually the worst behaved kids. This is just
biased in my district and perhaps other districts handle it differently.
--


I was in the TAG program in elementary school. We weren't just segregated
into a different part of the building, we went to a completly different
school. At first, we were bussed out for part of the day, and eventually we
just went to a seperate school. It had a huge impact on my social life.
None of the kids in my neighborhood would talk to me, I missed all the
birthday parties, school functions, etc. If I had it to do over again, I'd
stay in the regular program. If anything every happens where any of my kids
are tested for a TAG program, they won't be segregated like that. It was
horrible.

Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...







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  #47  
Old October 26th 03, 06:14 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Sue wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message

We have a similar program (center based GT program)


What does GT stand for?



Same as yours, but backwards--Gifted & Talented ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #48  
Old October 26th 03, 06:17 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Rosalie B. wrote:


Ericka Kammerer wrote:


I certainly won't contest your impression of your
district, as I have no experience of it. We have a similar
program (center based GT program), however, and it is *totally*
different. The kids are delightful, very well behaved, and
highly supportive of the school and school programs--not to
mention that their parents are some of the most highly
active in the whole school, and their efforts benefit the
*whole* school, not just the center based GT part. I'll
agree that the label is unfortunate, though I'm not
sure what the program ought to be called.


I think your perspective as a parent is somewhat skewed by the
participation of the G&T parents. Parents and teachers do make a big
difference to the individual programs.


Oh, absolutely, though it's not just the parents.
The program here is set up in a particular way, and the
principal and other administrators at the particular
school handle it in a particular way, and all of that
works together along with parents, teachers, and students
to make it an effective program. That's not to say it's
perfect, because it obviously isn't. I'm just saying
that the notion of a center based GT program isn't the
problem per se.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #49  
Old October 26th 03, 06:22 PM
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
We have a similar program (center based GT program)


What does GT stand for?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...


  #50  
Old October 26th 03, 06:27 PM
Sue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Denise wrote in message
I was in the TAG program in elementary school. We weren't just
segregated into a different part of the building, we went to a completly
different school. At first, we were bussed out for part of the day, and
eventually we just went to a seperate school. It had a huge impact on my
social life. None of the kids in my neighborhood would talk to me, I
missed all the birthday parties, school functions, etc. If I had it to do

over again, I'd stay in the regular program. If anything every happens
where any of my kids are tested for a TAG program, they won't be segregated
like that. It was horrible.



Our TAG started out in a different school, but then due to money problems
they re-entered them into our school and consolidated them. Like I said, the
way they are handling it in our school, these kids don't want to socialize
with the other kids and will go out of their way to not play with the rest
of the kids. They don't participate in any of the school functions, nor do
the parents take an active part in the school at all. I am sure other places
handle it much better than our district and my opinions are based totally on
how our district handles it.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...


 




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