Am I responsible for daycare on my week with a stay-at-home mom?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I live in Virginia, by the
way. I realize that there will probably be some criticisms of what
I'm doing -- I understand them all. Please consider my question more
than anything though.

I'm employed full-time. My ex delivers newspapers during the night so
that she can be available for my 2 children as well as her 2 new
children. Mine are 9 & 6, in school full-time, so she watches them
for a few minutes before school, a couple of hours after, and all day
in the summer. Her other kids are about 2 & 9 months. I have shared
custody, week on, week off scenario.

My ex and I have come to our own agreement on child support. We have
a divorce decree which has never been updated to reflect that
agreement (yes, yes, I know). Basically, when I attempted to take her
to court to drastically lower child support, she let the flood gates
open and my bleeding heart bit. So, rather than pursuing the drop
from 1100/month to 600/month, I made an agreement with her to lower it
to $950 -- technically paying her $600/month for child support and
$350 for daycare expenses. This year I dropped it another $100 to
$850/month because my son (6) started first grade and requires less of
her time each day.

I hate paying child support when she's making decent money, has a
live-in fiancee who make decent money, and she has no childcare
expenses.

Would the court consider that their mother is already home and
available and feel that I shouldn't have to pay her to watch her own
kids? Or would they say that I'm responsible for my own week, and of
course, my ex would be mad at me for taking her to court, so she would
tell me to find another daycare which would be hard/possibly more
expensive. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I want to get a
good feel for this before I decide whether I should pursue anything.

Might I suggest that you investigate the cost of day care for the amount of
time you would need it before you go forward with another court date? I
don't know about where you are, but where I am, you would have to pay for
the unused weeks as well as the ones you used, because you are paying for a
"spot"--not for the time you actually use. Child care is not an inexpensive
proposition any more.

"Mikey" wrote in message
om...
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I live in Virginia, by the
way. I realize that there will probably be some criticisms of what
I'm doing -- I understand them all. Please consider my question more
than anything though.

I'm employed full-time. My ex delivers newspapers during the night so
that she can be available for my 2 children as well as her 2 new
children. Mine are 9 & 6, in school full-time, so she watches them
for a few minutes before school, a couple of hours after, and all day
in the summer. Her other kids are about 2 & 9 months. I have shared
custody, week on, week off scenario.

My ex and I have come to our own agreement on child support. We have
a divorce decree which has never been updated to reflect that
agreement (yes, yes, I know). Basically, when I attempted to take her
to court to drastically lower child support, she let the flood gates
open and my bleeding heart bit. So, rather than pursuing the drop
from 1100/month to 600/month, I made an agreement with her to lower it
to $950 -- technically paying her $600/month for child support and
$350 for daycare expenses. This year I dropped it another $100 to
$850/month because my son (6) started first grade and requires less of
her time each day.

I hate paying child support when she's making decent money, has a
live-in fiancee who make decent money, and she has no childcare
expenses.

Would the court consider that their mother is already home and
available and feel that I shouldn't have to pay her to watch her own
kids? Or would they say that I'm responsible for my own week, and of
course, my ex would be mad at me for taking her to court, so she would
tell me to find another daycare which would be hard/possibly more
expensive. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I want to get a
good feel for this before I decide whether I should pursue anything.

I agree with T'rama's comments. If you are in Fairfax County, just look at
the cost of SACC for before and after school care, and then Summer SACC.
You can also go to the County web site to look for licensed home care, which
is less expensive.

However, the disruptions of snow days, non school days, and illnesses will
impact your ability to work on those days. You may have more convenience
than you know.

I have to take off work Friday because the "care giver" must take her own
child to the doctor.
--
Tippy

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Might I suggest that you investigate the cost of day care for the amount
of
time you would need it before you go forward with another court date? I
don't know about where you are, but where I am, you would have to pay for
the unused weeks as well as the ones you used, because you are paying for
a
"spot"--not for the time you actually use. Child care is not an
inexpensive
proposition any more.

"Mikey" wrote in message
om...
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I live in Virginia, by the
way. I realize that there will probably be some criticisms of what
I'm doing -- I understand them all. Please consider my question more
than anything though.

I'm employed full-time. My ex delivers newspapers during the night so
that she can be available for my 2 children as well as her 2 new
children. Mine are 9 & 6, in school full-time, so she watches them
for a few minutes before school, a couple of hours after, and all day
in the summer. Her other kids are about 2 & 9 months. I have shared
custody, week on, week off scenario.

My ex and I have come to our own agreement on child support. We have
a divorce decree which has never been updated to reflect that
agreement (yes, yes, I know). Basically, when I attempted to take her
to court to drastically lower child support, she let the flood gates
open and my bleeding heart bit. So, rather than pursuing the drop
from 1100/month to 600/month, I made an agreement with her to lower it
to $950 -- technically paying her $600/month for child support and
$350 for daycare expenses. This year I dropped it another $100 to
$850/month because my son (6) started first grade and requires less of
her time each day.

I hate paying child support when she's making decent money, has a
live-in fiancee who make decent money, and she has no childcare
expenses.

Would the court consider that their mother is already home and
available and feel that I shouldn't have to pay her to watch her own
kids? Or would they say that I'm responsible for my own week, and of
course, my ex would be mad at me for taking her to court, so she would
tell me to find another daycare which would be hard/possibly more
expensive. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I want to get a
good feel for this before I decide whether I should pursue anything.

The advise you have received thus far is worth taking note of. You would be
on the losing end of the stick if you tried to go to court over this issue.
Either the courts would not view your actual time with your kids as a week
on, week off, hence increasing your obligation for support - or you would be
forced to find your own child care. Speaking from experience I have paid
anything from $200/month to $450/month on child care per child while being a
single mother of both school aged and pre-school aged children. The only
advantage of paying child care, and I speak from experience, is that you can
claim the child care expenses on your taxes versus child support cannot be
claimed.

I highly suggest you speak to an attorney, a tax account, and local daycares
before moving forward with your plan to go to court over this issue.

Other than that - both you and your ex are using each other in other means
and I view your situation as sad for your kids. Your kids are not
commodities to trade back and fourth for money, but assets in your lives.
Ones that will be there as you grow older. They will give you many years of
happiness, smiles, tears, and enjoyment.

Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

"Mikey" wrote in message
om...
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I live in Virginia, by the
way. I realize that there will probably be some criticisms of what
I'm doing -- I understand them all. Please consider my question more
than anything though.

I'm employed full-time. My ex delivers newspapers during the night so
that she can be available for my 2 children as well as her 2 new
children. Mine are 9 & 6, in school full-time, so she watches them
for a few minutes before school, a couple of hours after, and all day
in the summer. Her other kids are about 2 & 9 months. I have shared
custody, week on, week off scenario.

My ex and I have come to our own agreement on child support. We have
a divorce decree which has never been updated to reflect that
agreement (yes, yes, I know). Basically, when I attempted to take her
to court to drastically lower child support, she let the flood gates
open and my bleeding heart bit. So, rather than pursuing the drop
from 1100/month to 600/month, I made an agreement with her to lower it
to $950 -- technically paying her $600/month for child support and
$350 for daycare expenses. This year I dropped it another $100 to
$850/month because my son (6) started first grade and requires less of
her time each day.

I hate paying child support when she's making decent money, has a
live-in fiancee who make decent money, and she has no childcare
expenses.

Would the court consider that their mother is already home and
available and feel that I shouldn't have to pay her to watch her own
kids? Or would they say that I'm responsible for my own week, and of
course, my ex would be mad at me for taking her to court, so she would
tell me to find another daycare which would be hard/possibly more
expensive. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I want to get a
good feel for this before I decide whether I should pursue anything.

"Tracy" wrote in message news:IXVkd.497213$mD.117865@attbi_s02...
The advise you have received thus far is worth taking note of. You would be
on the losing end of the stick if you tried to go to court over this issue.
Either the courts would not view your actual time with your kids as a week
on, week off, hence increasing your obligation for support - or you would be
forced to find your own child care. Speaking from experience I have paid
anything from $200/month to $450/month on child care per child while being a
single mother of both school aged and pre-school aged children. The only
advantage of paying child care, and I speak from experience, is that you can
claim the child care expenses on your taxes versus child support cannot be
claimed.

I highly suggest you speak to an attorney, a tax account, and local daycares
before moving forward with your plan to go to court over this issue.

Other than that - both you and your ex are using each other in other means
and I view your situation as sad for your kids. Your kids are not
commodities to trade back and fourth for money, but assets in your lives.
Ones that will be there as you grow older. They will give you many years of
happiness, smiles, tears, and enjoyment.

Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/



All good advice. I agree with everything, although I suppose my
question was a little more to: would the court feel that the mother is
already home during the day, and therefore should be available to
watch her own children without any cost to me? I'm not really saying
that I believe that they would, but I'm simply curious.

Also, I'm really not sure what makes you believe that my kids are
being treated as commodities, or that the situation is sad for them.
I mean, I'm sure that many divorce situations are like that, but I
just don't understand how you manifest that judgment on this situation
based on my question. Is it because I don't agree with having to pay
more child support than necessary? I have shared custody. I pay for
my own clothes, half of all shared expenses, etc, etc. Why does my ex
deserve a cent over that?

"Mikey" wrote in message
m...
"Tracy" wrote in message
news:IXVkd.497213$mD.117865@attbi_s02...
The advise you have received thus far is worth taking note of. You
would be
on the losing end of the stick if you tried to go to court over this
issue.
Either the courts would not view your actual time with your kids as a
week
on, week off, hence increasing your obligation for support - or you
would be
forced to find your own child care. Speaking from experience I have
paid
anything from $200/month to $450/month on child care per child while
being a
single mother of both school aged and pre-school aged children. The
only
advantage of paying child care, and I speak from experience, is that you
can
claim the child care expenses on your taxes versus child support cannot
be
claimed.

I highly suggest you speak to an attorney, a tax account, and local
daycares
before moving forward with your plan to go to court over this issue.

Other than that - both you and your ex are using each other in other
means
and I view your situation as sad for your kids. Your kids are not
commodities to trade back and fourth for money, but assets in your
lives.
Ones that will be there as you grow older. They will give you many
years of
happiness, smiles, tears, and enjoyment.

Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/



All good advice. I agree with everything, although I suppose my
question was a little more to: would the court feel that the mother is
already home during the day, and therefore should be available to
watch her own children without any cost to me? I'm not really saying
that I believe that they would, but I'm simply curious.

Also, I'm really not sure what makes you believe that my kids are
being treated as commodities, or that the situation is sad for them.
I mean, I'm sure that many divorce situations are like that, but I
just don't understand how you manifest that judgment on this situation
based on my question. Is it because I don't agree with having to pay
more child support than necessary? I have shared custody. I pay for
my own clothes, half of all shared expenses, etc, etc. Why does my ex
deserve a cent over that?

I didn't say your ex deserves anything more than she already receives. You
are using your ex as a babysitter, and your ex is treating you as if she is
a babysitter to your kids. If you didn't treat your kids as a bargaining
tool in connection with childcare and cost associated with it, then it
wouldn't be an issue. Honestly, both you and your ex-wife is doing this.
It isn't just you, and it isn't just her. Think about it this way - if you
had the kids in your care during your time and your ex-wife wasn't
"babysitting" them, then you would be paying for it on your own. This whole
issue wouldn't be an issue, because it would be very clear who was
responsible when and for what. The "what" is cost as well as other things.

Currently my youngest son's father is supposed to pay for healthcare for our
son. Part of the agreement for him paying a much lower amount in support is
due to the agreement that he would cover 100% of the healthcare related
costs. The cost include healthcare insurance and any bills not covered by
the insurance. At one time I was employed by an employer where healthcare
insurance was free for me and my family (only kids at the time). I
approached my son's father and told him it was silly for him to pay for
something I could receive for free. Therefore he dropped the insurance on
my son I he was covered through mine. On top of that I paid 100% of the
costs not covered by insurance. Instead of expecting my son's father to pay
more in child support, I let it go. It was not in the best interest of my
son to pursue an increase in support over healthcare costs. Even after I
changed employers and now pay for what was once free, I still don't see it
to be beneficial to my son it I pursued something which is not worth going
after. Before you jump the gun - what I gave up was anything between $150 -
$500 per month extra in support due to our combined incomes.

With the above in mind - is going after child support, and dealing with all
the headaches involved, really in the best interest of my son? To me the
answer is 'no'. The relationship I have with his father, and the
relationship they have between them, is a much higher priority than money.
How does this relate to your situation? Two words - Be Fair.

Go check on what it would cost you to provide child care for your kids
before changing any agreements you have in place with your ex. Make sure
you are being fair to all, because if you aren't then it is not in the best
interest of your children. It will only cause problems. This does not mean
I support you paying extra in child support, nor do I agree that she should
expect you to pay her for babysitting her own kids, but what I'm saying is
that you have a previous agreement in place - don't rock the boat over
money - it is the relationship with your kids that sits on the edge of that
boat. Is that relationship worth giving up over money?


Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

"Tracy" wrote in message news:s1amd.409578$D%.370248@attbi_s51...

I didn't say your ex deserves anything more than she already receives. You
are using your ex as a babysitter, and your ex is treating you as if she is
a babysitter to your kids. If you didn't treat your kids as a bargaining
tool in connection with childcare and cost associated with it, then it
wouldn't be an issue. Honestly, both you and your ex-wife is doing this.
It isn't just you, and it isn't just her. Think about it this way - if you
had the kids in your care during your time and your ex-wife wasn't
"babysitting" them, then you would be paying for it on your own. This whole
issue wouldn't be an issue, because it would be very clear who was
responsible when and for what. The "what" is cost as well as other things.

Currently my youngest son's father is supposed to pay for healthcare for our
son. Part of the agreement for him paying a much lower amount in support is
due to the agreement that he would cover 100% of the healthcare related
costs. The cost include healthcare insurance and any bills not covered by
the insurance. At one time I was employed by an employer where healthcare
insurance was free for me and my family (only kids at the time). I
approached my son's father and told him it was silly for him to pay for
something I could receive for free. Therefore he dropped the insurance on
my son I he was covered through mine. On top of that I paid 100% of the
costs not covered by insurance. Instead of expecting my son's father to pay
more in child support, I let it go. It was not in the best interest of my
son to pursue an increase in support over healthcare costs. Even after I
changed employers and now pay for what was once free, I still don't see it
to be beneficial to my son it I pursued something which is not worth going
after. Before you jump the gun - what I gave up was anything between $150 -
$500 per month extra in support due to our combined incomes.

With the above in mind - is going after child support, and dealing with all
the headaches involved, really in the best interest of my son? To me the
answer is 'no'. The relationship I have with his father, and the
relationship they have between them, is a much higher priority than money.
How does this relate to your situation? Two words - Be Fair.

Go check on what it would cost you to provide child care for your kids
before changing any agreements you have in place with your ex. Make sure
you are being fair to all, because if you aren't then it is not in the best
interest of your children. It will only cause problems. This does not mean
I support you paying extra in child support, nor do I agree that she should
expect you to pay her for babysitting her own kids, but what I'm saying is
that you have a previous agreement in place - don't rock the boat over
money - it is the relationship with your kids that sits on the edge of that
boat. Is that relationship worth giving up over money?


Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/


I understand what you're saying, and you're definitely right. The
fact is, I'd probably have a hard time finding daycare any cheaper
than what I pay her. Although, I could probably shuffle my schedule
on weeks that I have them so that no daycare was necessary anyways.
To be honest, most of my question stems from other people constantly
asking why I pay my ex to watch her own kids. My answer, at least in
the context of your post, is that for the most part, I'm trying to
avoid fighting, and I'm trying to be fair. I always have. I just
wanted other people's opinion, and possibly any court precendence on
the situation, to justify the decision in my own mind.

So, given that that question is pretty much answered, how about
clarifying what exactly, if anything, child support pays for. I mean,
should I expect to pay half of everything else also, or does child
support cover some stuff (school field trips, school lunches,
something?)? My take is that it's basically just free money for the
ex to use at her house for any purpose she sees fit. Just curious
though.

Ya' know, I understand all of this "be fair to the kids" stuff, as in,
pay child support so that both houses have roughly the same lifestyle.
I still can't help but hate it though. I mean, how about this for
being fair to the kids, how about their mother grows some ambition and
does something with her life to give them a decent lifestyle? Why is
it that because I had ambition and that I make good money because of
it that I have to give some of that money to her because she doesn't
make much?

In article , Mikey says...
............................

Ya' know, I understand all of this "be fair to the kids" stuff, as in,
pay child support so that both houses have roughly the same lifestyle.
====
That isn't the position of the state. The state (excepting a few--PA is one) is
not concerned with equality of the separate homes. The NCP is expected to have a
substantial decline in lifestyle so that the CP's lifestyle (NOT the childrens')
is commensurate with a two-earner family--As though the divorce never occured.
====
====

Gini wrote in message ...
In article , Mikey says...
...........................

Ya' know, I understand all of this "be fair to the kids" stuff, as in,
pay child support so that both houses have roughly the same lifestyle.
====
That isn't the position of the state. The state (excepting a few--PA is one) is
not concerned with equality of the separate homes. The NCP is expected to have a
substantial decline in lifestyle so that the CP's lifestyle (NOT the childrens')
is commensurate with a two-earner family--As though the divorce never occured.
====
====


Wow, why not just poor salt in the wound. I'd rather they at least
explain it as what's best for the kids, not the CP. Why should the CP
get squat, that's what alimony is for, if it's found to be needed and
justified.

Gini wrote:
: In article , Mikey says...
: ...........................
:
:Ya' know, I understand all of this "be fair to the kids" stuff, as in,
:pay child support so that both houses have roughly the same lifestyle.
: ====
: That isn't the position of the state. The state (excepting a few--PA is one) is
: not concerned with equality of the separate homes. The NCP is expected to have a
: substantial decline in lifestyle so that the CP's lifestyle (NOT the childrens')
: is commensurate with a two-earner family--As though the divorce never occured.

The problem is that with this practice, *two* homes need to be financed vs.
one. That significantly causes the NCP's living standard and the CP's
standard to rise.

(paying $1.2K/month CS)

b.