A Good Man

"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...
Being a "real man" is a feminist code word for a man to be a obey them as
a
loyal indentured servant without question.

I always thought it meant agreeing with whatever a woman says even though
you know better - as in - "Honey, everyone knows that washing machines eat
men's socks." Because if a man presses a woman to own up to personal
responsibility the response will be a total breakdown of communication - as
in - "If you don't like the way I do the laundry, do it yourself."

It's like being a landlord and allowing prospective tenants to tell you what
you should include in a "furnished apartment". If you do that, a "furnished
apartment" will suddenly include a big-screen TV and home theater, a
well-stocked pantry and liquor cabinet, closets full of designer clothes, etc.

A furnished apartment is what it is - if you don't like, don't rent it : )

Mel Gamble

On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:

Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into
something
which acts more like a girl.

Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
women as being "wrong".

Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?

Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho.

*************************************
Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
*************************************
I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found
in a
lot of women.

Obsessed with sex.

Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?

These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a
very
small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly.

Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?

We leer at women,

Which harms who???

demean them by
focusing
on their body parts,

Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.

and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them.

???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???

And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents.

And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women.
AND
women are also it's customers.

I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said.

Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women
to
pick from.

"So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.

But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?

He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister.

Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
respectfully...

That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,

Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...

and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving,
and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
................

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may
be
better than HER reality.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,

Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
bitchin' about???? : )

not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting

Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
************************************************ **************************
******
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
************************************************ **************************
******
... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.


A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
order - served on him while he's away at work.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.

Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the
phrase
"knowledge is power".

He takes a strong interest in
his children

...if allowed...

and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs.

If allowed...otherwise he just pays.

They are always a number one priority in his life.

Whether they are *IN* his life or not.

But is being
a
good man really possible?

Only so long a woman allows it.

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.

That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow
us
to become...or not.

And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Dream on amigo.

Mel Gamble

It's like being a landlord and allowing prospective tenants to tell you what
you should include in a "furnished apartment". If you do that, a "furnished
apartment" will suddenly include a big-screen TV and home theater, a
well-stocked pantry and liquor cabinet, closets full of designer clothes, etc.

A furnished apartment is what it is - if you don't like, don't rent it : )

Mel Gamble

On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:

Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into
something
which acts more like a girl.

Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
women as being "wrong".

Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?

Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho.

*************************************
Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
*************************************
I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found
in a
lot of women.

Obsessed with sex.

Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?

These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a
very
small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly.

Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?

We leer at women,

Which harms who???

demean them by
focusing
on their body parts,

Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.

and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them.

???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???

And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents.

And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women.
AND
women are also it's customers.

I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said.

Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women
to
pick from.

"So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.

But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?

He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister.

Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
respectfully...

That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,

Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...

and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving,
and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
................

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may
be
better than HER reality.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,

Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
bitchin' about???? : )

not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting

Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
************************************************ **************************
******
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
************************************************ **************************
******
... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.


A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
order - served on him while he's away at work.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.

Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the
phrase
"knowledge is power".

He takes a strong interest in
his children

...if allowed...

and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs.

If allowed...otherwise he just pays.

They are always a number one priority in his life.

Whether they are *IN* his life or not.

But is being
a
good man really possible?

Only so long a woman allows it.

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.

That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow
us
to become...or not.

And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Dream on amigo.

Mel Gamble

Of course some men behave badley, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me how
I should behave.

-Drew

"chillin'" wrote in message
om...
Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
focusing
on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.

A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
a
good man really possible?

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Of course some men behave badley, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me how
I should behave.

-Drew

"chillin'" wrote in message
om...
Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
focusing
on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.

A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
a
good man really possible?

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Reminds me of a comic strip joke I saw years ago. It showed a woman
getting ready to go out to a night club. She put on fake eyelashes,
lots of make-up, put on hair extensions, put her double-D cup bra to
hold her breast implants, and so on. Her female room-mate enters and
asks her what she is doing. She responds that she is going out to
find herself a REAL man. :-P

Me wrote in message tnews.com...

Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.

Reminds me of a comic strip joke I saw years ago. It showed a woman
getting ready to go out to a night club. She put on fake eyelashes,
lots of make-up, put on hair extensions, put her double-D cup bra to
hold her breast implants, and so on. Her female room-mate enters and
asks her what she is doing. She responds that she is going out to
find herself a REAL man. :-P

Me wrote in message tnews.com...

Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.

"Father Drew" wrote in message
news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men and
women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a "girlie"
calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't like
he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female that
exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while I'm
around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.

Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist. You
guys are nothing more than just other people.

I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks == that is for both
men and women too.


I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to
be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
how
I should behave.

LOL - I hope so!



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***



-Drew

"chillin'" wrote in message
om...
Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
focusing
on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.

A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
a
good man really possible?

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

"Father Drew" wrote in message
news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men and
women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a "girlie"
calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't like
he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female that
exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while I'm
around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.

Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist. You
guys are nothing more than just other people.

I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks == that is for both
men and women too.


I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to
be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
how
I should behave.

LOL - I hope so!



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***



-Drew

"chillin'" wrote in message
om...
Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
focusing
on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.

A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
a
good man really possible?

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Tracy wrote in message
et...
"Father Drew" wrote in message
news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's
a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men
and
women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
"girlie"
calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't
like
he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
that
exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while
I'm
around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.

Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist.
You
guys are nothing more than just other people.

I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks == that is for
both
men and women too.


I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe
to
be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
how
I should behave.

LOL - I hope so!



Tracy


But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts to
pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you consider
that natural or unnatural? I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
isn't the place for that discussion. lol

T