Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

Sophie wrote:


I'm not so sure the 2 weeks of R&R is a good idea anyway. I can't imagine
having to get my kids used to dad being gone *again*. I bet tons of
military personnel will go UA/AWOL.


Thats what I keep thinking. If my dh had been offered leave while he was in
afgh. I would have told him to decline it, or else go to europe or something,
but don't come home 15 days only to leave again - it would have been really
disruptive, I think, as much as it would have been great to see him, its hard on
the kids.

cara

Sophie wrote:

Wow, that's SO off. Do you know how many Enlisteds have college
degrees? Believe it or not, some people *choose* to go Enlisted.

My BIL chose to go Enlisted *after* he got his degree.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

user wrote in message .. .
On 5 Nov 2003 16:59:35 GMT, Ignoramus14934 wrote:
In article , Banty wrote:
In article , Ignoramus14934 says...



Well, sure. We have a volunteer military, so they better fight the
wars that they were paid for. Personally, I think that it is not very
smart to join national guard. Especially if you have 7 kids.

So, how much of your opinion is from not thinking it smart to join
when you have a large family, and how much of it is from not
thinking it smart to join *at all*? Did you really mean the second
sentence?

Well, it is pretty irrational to join the national guard, unless you
want long exciting assignments like searching for insurgents in Iraq.


I agree with the above statement.


Ummmm.... you do realize that there are people out there who
believe that they owe service to their country, right?

Hmmm, so whatever prevented them doing the service before they had
kids? Or if the desire to serve their country came upon them only
after they had bred up a large family, whatever prevented them from
doing some form of service to their community that would not involve
the possibility of lengthy assigments away from home? There's plenty
of degraded land that needs rehabilitating, they could spend their
spare time volunteering for an environmental group. Not much pay
involved but if service is owed, then a little bit of free service is
probably just as good as a whole lot of paid service. If the burning
desire is to be of service to the armed forces or in the "war on
terrorism", then they could have raised money for charities to help
deployed soldiers, veterans etc.

"cara" wrote in message
...
Sophie wrote:


I'm not so sure the 2 weeks of R&R is a good idea anyway. I can't
imagine
having to get my kids used to dad being gone *again*. I bet tons of
military personnel will go UA/AWOL.


Thats what I keep thinking. If my dh had been offered leave while he was
in
afgh. I would have told him to decline it, or else go to europe or
something,
but don't come home 15 days only to leave again - it would have been
really
disruptive, I think, as much as it would have been great to see him, its
hard on
the kids.

cara


I think I would have gone to meet him somewhere else, without the kids.

"Circe" wrote in message news:kPfqb.6001$7B2.4200@fed1read04...
"Sophie" wrote in message
...
"Circe" wrote in message
news:Bafqb.5857$7B2.2952@fed1read04...
Oh it's known recruiters fib. We've all heard about the guy who was
joining
the Navy and was told he'd never have to go on a ship eyeroll

I just think we have a serious problem in the way our volunteer military
operates. I have the utmost respect for people who choose to go into the
military, but I also believe that a large majority of people in the
military
wouldn't be there if they had other viable options. The military,
especially
the enlisted forces, is hardly a representative cross-section of the
American population; instead, it's disproportionately made up of people
whose grew up at or near the poverty line.

Wow, that's SO off. Do you know how many Enlisteds have college degrees?

Not nearly as many as in the population at large, I don't think. Don't most
people who have college degrees in the military wind up in the officer
corps, though? (Showing my ignorance here.)

Believe it or not, some people *choose* to go Enlisted.

Oh, I believe. And "low income" was probably the wrong term to use. There's
no question, however, that wealthy are virtually non-existent in the
military population. Minorities are vastly overrepresented (12.5% of all
Americans are black, but 22% of people in the military are black; that's a
pretty stark demographic difference between the American population at large
and the volunteer military population).

And there's little doubt that you don't see very many kids of top level
politicians enlisting in the military these days. My point is that, without
a draft to put *all* young people, including the children of the folks who
choose how to exercise military power, the people at the top are not putting
their own sons and daughters in the line of fire by sending the country into
war.
--
While I agree that politicians might make different decisions if their
own sons and daughters were at risk (of course, we have a
commander-in-
chief who has invited people to attack his own troops, so go figure),
the rich have always been able to buy their way out of danger. During
the
Vietnam years, many (wealthier) students had college deferrments and
I have no doubt that people today would think of some way out of their
obligations if there were a compulsory service. The dirty work has
always
been done disproportionately by those with fewer resources and I am
not aware
that we have any culture that feels you owe something. Nonetheless,
there are plenty of middle and upper middle class kids who are joining
the military -- at least before 9-11 changed everything. There are
good
benefits and the economy is not good.

I have sympathy for the mother who is deserting BUT plenty of other
people
who have been called up are undergoing hardships as well. (My
practical
side wonders what on earth a couple with 7 children were thinking with
both of them in the military.) I am under the impression that she
could make an appeal in a true hardship case. If she goes AWOL,
though, then she will
have to deal with the lifelong consequences of a dishonorable
discharge
and/or prosecution.

Lynne

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Nevermind
says...

What's happening in the
guard now (that is, so many being sent overseas) is unprecedented,
AFAIK. However, for the past few years, we have seen that the world
has changed, and noone should voluntarily enlist in any of the armed
services unless they *expect* to go to war. And noone should ever have
joined any of the armed forces unless they were 100% ready to go. I
have always thought that two married people with kids should not be
allowed to both be in the service. Not sure how a policy could be
devised to effect that restriction, but it should, somehow.

It's always been a matter of odds. The *purpose* of the guard and those
monthly
weekends and yearly weeks in training pointed to - now what on earth do
you
THINK that was about?!

Perhaps it's because I grew up in a military family with a father who is a
veteran of three wars, but this odds-betting "I didn't mean to do war"
begging-off about guard deployments is just mind-boggling.

A colleague I work with every day, a man in his 30s with three girls,
joined the
Army National Guard. He came back from basic and armoured training and
reported
again to work on September 10, 2001. Guess what came in a phone call
the next
evening.

Banty (ya think he just thought he was playing soldiers-and-tanks...I
don't
think so)

I was reading a dance forum. In the "Ask a Parent" section a dancer told
of talking to an army recruiter at the mall with her single mother friend.
The recruiter told them if they joined the reserves they would never get
sent anywhere. She was attempting to clarify with the parents if he meant
both of them, or just the single mother. I suspect there are more than
a couple of people who get pulled in by misleading recruiters and don't
know how to get out before they are committed. However, since the
original story talks of both parents being in the military, I'm guessing
she knew exactly what she was getting into. She may not have known
that her backup plan would backfire into losing custody of some of
her kids.

"Ignoramus909" wrote in message
...
In article , Sophie wrote:
Thats what I keep thinking. If my dh had been offered leave while he
was
in
afgh. I would have told him to decline it, or else go to europe or
something,
but don't come home 15 days only to leave again - it would have been
really
disruptive, I think, as much as it would have been great to see him,
its
hard on
the kids.

I think I would have gone to meet him somewhere else, without the kids.

I just cannot believe that I hear this.

With all due respect...

What if your husband, whom you suggested to decline visiting your
kids, gets killed? You and the kids will live *forever* knowing that
they missed an opportunity to see their dad for the last time.


You've obviously never had the pleasure of raising kids while your spouse
was at war. You have no reasonable idea of how it affects your children or
yourself. If my husband was offered leave during his last 11 month
deployment, I, like Sophie, would have told him to go hang out in Italy and
tried to get there to visit him without the kids. By a certain point in a
deployment your kids get past the major upheaval, and its usually pretty far
into the deployment. Seeing Daddy or Mommy again is just going to confuse
young kids and prolong adjustment periods. Homecomings aren't all fun when
a military person comes home. There's a whole lot of adjustment that goes
on. From kids having one parent who disciplines, to spouses becoming super
independent. Two weeks isn't nearly long enough to go through all the
phases of homecoming adjustment and I wonder how many couples are spending
all their time fighting, getting divorced, dealing with upset kids... etc.




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In article ,
"Denise" wrote:

"Ignoramus909" wrote in message
...
In article , Sophie wrote:
Thats what I keep thinking. If my dh had been offered leave while he
was
in
afgh. I would have told him to decline it, or else go to europe or
something,
but don't come home 15 days only to leave again - it would have been
really
disruptive, I think, as much as it would have been great to see him,
its
hard on
the kids.

I think I would have gone to meet him somewhere else, without the kids.

I just cannot believe that I hear this.

With all due respect...

What if your husband, whom you suggested to decline visiting your
kids, gets killed? You and the kids will live *forever* knowing that
they missed an opportunity to see their dad for the last time.


You've obviously never had the pleasure of raising kids while your spouse
was at war. You have no reasonable idea of how it affects your children or
yourself. If my husband was offered leave during his last 11 month
deployment, I, like Sophie, would have told him to go hang out in Italy and
tried to get there to visit him without the kids. By a certain point in a
deployment your kids get past the major upheaval, and its usually pretty far
into the deployment. Seeing Daddy or Mommy again is just going to confuse
young kids and prolong adjustment periods. Homecomings aren't all fun when
a military person comes home. There's a whole lot of adjustment that goes
on. From kids having one parent who disciplines, to spouses becoming super
independent. Two weeks isn't nearly long enough to go through all the
phases of homecoming adjustment and I wonder how many couples are spending
all their time fighting, getting divorced, dealing with upset kids... etc.



I am in nowhere near this situation, but think I'm beginning to
understand your position. DH has spent quite a lot of time out of the
country since last April, trips ranging from 3 weeks to 6-1/2 weeks,
with up to two weeks off between trips. My kids are older (17 and 21),
but in some ways I think this would have been easier if he just had one
really long trip of several months. His time at home isn't enough to
settle into a new routine, but it is enough to disrupt the old one!

Fortunately, I THINK his next trip home will be for over a month.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Ignoramus909" wrote in
How would the kids feel if their dad was killed but later they learn
that the mom arranged that they could not see him on his last leave
from Iraq.


Hopefully they would understand I did it for their own mental being. Given
the situation they've grown up in, I'm sure they would accept it.






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"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Denise" wrote:

"Ignoramus909" wrote in message
...
In article , Sophie wrote:
Thats what I keep thinking. If my dh had been offered leave while
he
was
in
afgh. I would have told him to decline it, or else go to europe or
something,
but don't come home 15 days only to leave again - it would have
been
really
disruptive, I think, as much as it would have been great to see
him,
its
hard on
the kids.

I think I would have gone to meet him somewhere else, without the
kids.

I just cannot believe that I hear this.

With all due respect...

What if your husband, whom you suggested to decline visiting your
kids, gets killed? You and the kids will live *forever* knowing that
they missed an opportunity to see their dad for the last time.


You've obviously never had the pleasure of raising kids while your
spouse
was at war. You have no reasonable idea of how it affects your children
or
yourself. If my husband was offered leave during his last 11 month
deployment, I, like Sophie, would have told him to go hang out in Italy
and
tried to get there to visit him without the kids. By a certain point in
a
deployment your kids get past the major upheaval, and its usually pretty
far
into the deployment. Seeing Daddy or Mommy again is just going to
confuse
young kids and prolong adjustment periods. Homecomings aren't all fun
when
a military person comes home. There's a whole lot of adjustment that
goes
on. From kids having one parent who disciplines, to spouses becoming
super
independent. Two weeks isn't nearly long enough to go through all the
phases of homecoming adjustment and I wonder how many couples are
spending
all their time fighting, getting divorced, dealing with upset kids...
etc.



I am in nowhere near this situation, but think I'm beginning to
understand your position. DH has spent quite a lot of time out of the
country since last April, trips ranging from 3 weeks to 6-1/2 weeks,
with up to two weeks off between trips. My kids are older (17 and 21),
but in some ways I think this would have been easier if he just had one
really long trip of several months. His time at home isn't enough to
settle into a new routine, but it is enough to disrupt the old one!

Fortunately, I THINK his next trip home will be for over a month.



My husband is Navy, so he spends a lot of months before a long deployment
doing this 1 week jaunts here, home for a week, gone for 3, home for one
gone for four... etc leading up to the big one (which this time was almost a
year), all of my friends and I agree that it would be much better to do just
one long deployment as opposed to the work ups.




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