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Loafing step-daughter



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 18th 06, 11:45 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
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Default Loafing step-daughter


"Melissa" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:


Actually, "we" believe in kicking the father out of the home; and the


more

we can keep him away from his children the more money the mother gets


paid.

SO and I have been on both sides of the child support issue now. The
idea that anyone can life high off the hog on a child support check is
laughable.



Non sequitur. My point was that this is now the American way. What I

said
above is true.



Well no actually. You're incorrect. Generally support isn't based on
how much time you have with the kid, except maybe in a joint custody
situation.


What did you think I was referring to?

And again, it's not really a large amount of money when you
compare it to what the monthly costs for a kid are. The idea that women
kick fathers out of the house in order to cash in is just silly.


Remove the cash incentive and then see how many women kick fathers out of
the house.

M



  #2  
Old January 19th 06, 01:42 AM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default Loafing step-daughter

Chris wrote:



Remove the cash incentive and then see how many women kick fathers out of
the house.



Chris, are you currently paying anyone child support? I'd like to know
how you became such an expert.
M
  #3  
Old January 19th 06, 04:00 AM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default Loafing step-daughter


"Melissa" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:



Remove the cash incentive and then see how many women kick fathers out

of
the house.



Chris, are you currently paying anyone child support? I'd like to know
how you became such an expert.


If you don't like what Chris is saying a little research on your part might
influence your thinking. A good source to back up Chris' comment is the
research and writings of Dr. Margaret F. Brinig, who is a family law
professor and Ph.D..D in economics. Her most famous writing is called "These
Boots Are Made For Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers Are Women."

She found that there are two significant motivators that drive women's
desire to kick men out of the house. First, the virtually guaranteed
ability to gain primary custody of children is an emotional motivator which
provides women with emotional stability once the man is gone. And second,
to predictability of CS awards is a financial motivator which provides women
with financial security once the man is gone.

While Chris only referred to the "cash incentive" the combination of
financial and emotional incentives drives women's behavior when they discard
men from their lives.


  #4  
Old January 19th 06, 10:35 AM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
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Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation


Bob Whiteside wrote:
She found that there are two significant motivators that drive women's
desire to kick men out of the house. First, the virtually guaranteed
ability to gain primary custody of children is an emotional motivator which
provides women with emotional stability once the man is gone. And second,
to predictability of CS awards is a financial motivator which provides women
with financial security once the man is gone.

Sheesh. And to think I left my husband because he was a lying abusive
cross-dresser. That my sister left her husband because he gambled away
everything they had including their house and children's future. That
another sister left hers because after 25 years of public intimidation
and humiliation, she realised she didn't have to put up with it.

I guess we sisters should have read Dr. Margaret F. Brinig first,
because none of us receives child support - we each have three
children, we each have independent careers, we support our own
families, and we receive diddly-squat from our ex's. (And yes, the ex's
all spend regular time with the children, at least two nights a week,
and in all cases it's the children's decision how much time they spend
with each parent). And we're happy enough with the arrangements.

On the other hand, my new partner pays $3K a month to his ex-wife, who
literally stole the children away to another state overnight, and he
gets to see them all of 4 weeks a year (but only if he barely eats, so
he can afford the airfares). The $3K is based on (apparently) "what is
costs to keep 3 children of that age." Jesus! That's more than most
familes *earn* in a month!!

It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.

I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.

Cathryn.

  #5  
Old January 19th 06, 06:29 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation


"cathryn" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob Whiteside wrote:
She found that there are two significant motivators that drive women's
desire to kick men out of the house. First, the virtually guaranteed
ability to gain primary custody of children is an emotional motivator

which
provides women with emotional stability once the man is gone. And

second,
to predictability of CS awards is a financial motivator which provides

women
with financial security once the man is gone.

Sheesh. And to think I left my husband because he was a lying abusive
cross-dresser. That my sister left her husband because he gambled away
everything they had including their house and children's future. That
another sister left hers because after 25 years of public intimidation
and humiliation, she realised she didn't have to put up with it.

I guess we sisters should have read Dr. Margaret F. Brinig first,
because none of us receives child support - we each have three
children, we each have independent careers, we support our own
families, and we receive diddly-squat from our ex's. (And yes, the ex's
all spend regular time with the children, at least two nights a week,
and in all cases it's the children's decision how much time they spend
with each parent). And we're happy enough with the arrangements.


Not to mention that the three of you are a fair representation of the
majority, correct?
And should your child say one day "well mom, I think I want to spend 100% of
the time with dad", your response will be "that's great child, whatever you
decide".


On the other hand, my new partner pays $3K a month to his ex-wife, who
literally stole the children away to another state overnight, and he
gets to see them all of 4 weeks a year (but only if he barely eats, so
he can afford the airfares). The $3K is based on (apparently) "what is
costs to keep 3 children of that age." Jesus! That's more than most
familes *earn* in a month!!

It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.


Of course it is. We all know that women have no knowledge of the existence
of the custody time percentage scale reflecting the amount of cash they are
awarded; thus it is nothing more than a lucky coincidence that they get paid
more money to keep dad away from the children.


I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.

Cathryn.



  #6  
Old January 19th 06, 06:48 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation


"cathryn" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob Whiteside wrote:
She found that there are two significant motivators that drive women's
desire to kick men out of the house. First, the virtually guaranteed
ability to gain primary custody of children is an emotional motivator
which
provides women with emotional stability once the man is gone. And
second,
to predictability of CS awards is a financial motivator which provides
women
with financial security once the man is gone.

Sheesh. And to think I left my husband because he was a lying abusive
cross-dresser. That my sister left her husband because he gambled away
everything they had including their house and children's future. That
another sister left hers because after 25 years of public intimidation
and humiliation, she realised she didn't have to put up with it.

I guess we sisters should have read Dr. Margaret F. Brinig first,
because none of us receives child support - we each have three
children, we each have independent careers, we support our own
families, and we receive diddly-squat from our ex's. (And yes, the ex's
all spend regular time with the children, at least two nights a week,
and in all cases it's the children's decision how much time they spend
with each parent). And we're happy enough with the arrangements.

On the other hand, my new partner pays $3K a month to his ex-wife, who
literally stole the children away to another state overnight, and he
gets to see them all of 4 weeks a year (but only if he barely eats, so
he can afford the airfares). The $3K is based on (apparently) "what is
costs to keep 3 children of that age." Jesus! That's more than most
familes *earn* in a month!!

It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.


Actually, your comment is the stupid one. Personal anecedotes DO NOT equal
facts.

The fact is there ARE generalites that apply, you are simply to ignorant
to comprehend them

http://www.gocrc.com/research/custpolicies.html

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/divrates.php




I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.

Cathryn.



  #7  
Old January 19th 06, 08:19 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation


"cathryn" wrote in message
oups.com...


It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.

I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.


A good start would be to understand there is a big difference between the
financial (CS) and emotional (custody) incentives that encourage divorces to
occur and a list of reasons why people divorce. The ease of no-fault
divorce coupled with the incentives to divorce make even the most minor of
issues to become reasons to end a marriage.

Since women statistically initiate divorces about 85% of the time, it is
important to understand the reasons women give for ending their marriages.
The top 5 reasons Dr. Sanford Braver found in his research include: 1.)
Gradual growing apart, losing a sense of closeness, 2.) Serious differences
in lifestyle and/or values, 3.) Not feeling loved or appreciated by spouse,
4.) Spouse not able or willing to meet major needs, and 5.) Emotional
problems of the spouse.

I guess you could classify a cross dresser as being included in emotional
problems of the spouse. Gambling problems that lose everything would most
likely fit into the 9th listed reason - spouse not reliable. Long term
humiliation would most likely fit into the 8th listed reason - frequently
felt put down or belittled by spouse.

But the fact remains, all of the top reasons women list for initiating
divorce are touchy-feely reasons that reflect women's mental perceptions of
the marriage relationship and have nothing to do with specific, defined
negative behavior by their husbands.




  #8  
Old January 19th 06, 09:39 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation

In article . net, Bob Whiteside
says...


"cathryn" wrote in message
roups.com...


It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.

I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.


A good start would be to understand there is a big difference between the
financial (CS) and emotional (custody) incentives that encourage divorces to
occur and a list of reasons why people divorce. The ease of no-fault
divorce coupled with the incentives to divorce make even the most minor of
issues to become reasons to end a marriage.

Since women statistically initiate divorces about 85% of the time, it is
important to understand the reasons women give for ending their marriages.
The top 5 reasons Dr. Sanford Braver found in his research include: 1.)
Gradual growing apart, losing a sense of closeness, 2.) Serious differences
in lifestyle and/or values, 3.) Not feeling loved or appreciated by spouse,
4.) Spouse not able or willing to meet major needs, and 5.) Emotional
problems of the spouse.

I guess you could classify a cross dresser as being included in emotional
problems of the spouse. Gambling problems that lose everything would most
likely fit into the 9th listed reason - spouse not reliable. Long term
humiliation would most likely fit into the 8th listed reason - frequently
felt put down or belittled by spouse.

But the fact remains, all of the top reasons women list for initiating
divorce are touchy-feely reasons that reflect women's mental perceptions of
the marriage relationship and have nothing to do with specific, defined
negative behavior by their husbands.


So, number four, for example, would be a matter of 'mental perception'? If she
dint' meet *his* needs, would it be viewed the same? That's a pretty broad
category.

In 'Chris's' case, his wife may well be met with a dilemma of helping her
daughter vs. staying married. But Chris has stated he won't divorce. So that
leaves the resolution of the dilemma to - her. So, forced into a choice like
that, *she'd* end up in the "initiated divorce" stat. But, I'd submit that
"initiated divorce" is quite a different thing from "destroyed marriage". And
that isn't such an uncommon thing.

Banty




  #9  
Old January 19th 06, 10:31 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article . net, Bob

Whiteside
says...


"cathryn" wrote in message
roups.com...


It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.

I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.


A good start would be to understand there is a big difference between the
financial (CS) and emotional (custody) incentives that encourage divorces

to
occur and a list of reasons why people divorce. The ease of no-fault
divorce coupled with the incentives to divorce make even the most minor

of
issues to become reasons to end a marriage.

Since women statistically initiate divorces about 85% of the time, it is
important to understand the reasons women give for ending their

marriages.
The top 5 reasons Dr. Sanford Braver found in his research include: 1.)
Gradual growing apart, losing a sense of closeness, 2.) Serious

differences
in lifestyle and/or values, 3.) Not feeling loved or appreciated by

spouse,
4.) Spouse not able or willing to meet major needs, and 5.) Emotional
problems of the spouse.

I guess you could classify a cross dresser as being included in emotional
problems of the spouse. Gambling problems that lose everything would

most
likely fit into the 9th listed reason - spouse not reliable. Long term
humiliation would most likely fit into the 8th listed reason - frequently
felt put down or belittled by spouse.

But the fact remains, all of the top reasons women list for initiating
divorce are touchy-feely reasons that reflect women's mental perceptions

of
the marriage relationship and have nothing to do with specific, defined
negative behavior by their husbands.


So, number four, for example, would be a matter of 'mental perception'?

If she
dint' meet *his* needs, would it be viewed the same? That's a pretty

broad
category.


Men who initiate divorce cite "spouse not able to meet mjors needs" as the
4th most important factor. So the "needs" issue is identically perceived by
both men and women. The difference is women cite the "needs" issue as being
very important in 41% of divorces while men cite it as very important in 32%
of divorces they initiate.


In 'Chris's' case, his wife may well be met with a dilemma of helping her
daughter vs. staying married. But Chris has stated he won't divorce.

So that
leaves the resolution of the dilemma to - her. So, forced into a choice

like
that, *she'd* end up in the "initiated divorce" stat. But, I'd submit

that
"initiated divorce" is quite a different thing from "destroyed marriage".

And
that isn't such an uncommon thing.


Wow! The old bad husband/dad image, he made me do it, outdated thinking
that women throw out when they are reluctant to accept responsibility for
their own actions. Chris will have to comment on his own case, but it
sounds like he took his marriage vows a lot more seriously than his wife
did.

Look at the list of top 5 reasons women divorce again. There is nothing
there to substantiate the old fault based reasons for divorce like violence,
abuse, drugs, alcohol, extramarital affairs, etc. I think everyone would
agree those would be issues that "destroyed a marriage." But the research
indicates the old fault based reasons are not cited that often by women for
initiating a divorce.




  #10  
Old January 19th 06, 10:52 PM posted to alt.support.step-parents,alt.support.marriage,alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's a complex and usually no-win situation

In article , Bob Whiteside
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article . net, Bob

Whiteside
says...


"cathryn" wrote in message
roups.com...


It's a complex situation, there's no black and white, and there's no
generalities you can apply. Suggesting that "women kick men out for the
cash incentives" is ill-informed and quite frankly, a bit stupid.

I don't know what the magic answer is (I don't think there is one), but
certainly allocating blame (either universally to her, or universally
to him) is not going to resolve anything and help anyone.

A good start would be to understand there is a big difference between the
financial (CS) and emotional (custody) incentives that encourage divorces

to
occur and a list of reasons why people divorce. The ease of no-fault
divorce coupled with the incentives to divorce make even the most minor

of
issues to become reasons to end a marriage.

Since women statistically initiate divorces about 85% of the time, it is
important to understand the reasons women give for ending their

marriages.
The top 5 reasons Dr. Sanford Braver found in his research include: 1.)
Gradual growing apart, losing a sense of closeness, 2.) Serious

differences
in lifestyle and/or values, 3.) Not feeling loved or appreciated by

spouse,
4.) Spouse not able or willing to meet major needs, and 5.) Emotional
problems of the spouse.

I guess you could classify a cross dresser as being included in emotional
problems of the spouse. Gambling problems that lose everything would

most
likely fit into the 9th listed reason - spouse not reliable. Long term
humiliation would most likely fit into the 8th listed reason - frequently
felt put down or belittled by spouse.

But the fact remains, all of the top reasons women list for initiating
divorce are touchy-feely reasons that reflect women's mental perceptions

of
the marriage relationship and have nothing to do with specific, defined
negative behavior by their husbands.


So, number four, for example, would be a matter of 'mental perception'?

If she
dint' meet *his* needs, would it be viewed the same? That's a pretty

broad
category.


Men who initiate divorce cite "spouse not able to meet mjors needs" as the
4th most important factor. So the "needs" issue is identically perceived by
both men and women. The difference is women cite the "needs" issue as being
very important in 41% of divorces while men cite it as very important in 32%
of divorces they initiate.


In 'Chris's' case, his wife may well be met with a dilemma of helping her
daughter vs. staying married. But Chris has stated he won't divorce.

So that
leaves the resolution of the dilemma to - her. So, forced into a choice

like
that, *she'd* end up in the "initiated divorce" stat. But, I'd submit

that
"initiated divorce" is quite a different thing from "destroyed marriage".

And
that isn't such an uncommon thing.


Wow! The old bad husband/dad image, he made me do it, outdated thinking
that women throw out when they are reluctant to accept responsibility for
their own actions. Chris will have to comment on his own case, but it
sounds like he took his marriage vows a lot more seriously than his wife
did.

Look at the list of top 5 reasons women divorce again. There is nothing
there to substantiate the old fault based reasons for divorce like violence,
abuse, drugs, alcohol, extramarital affairs, etc. I think everyone would
agree those would be issues that "destroyed a marriage." But the research
indicates the old fault based reasons are not cited that often by women for
initiating a divorce.


Wow. (How did old bad dad get into this?) What's outdated.

If someone is backed into a corner where they have to choose between, say, child
and marriage, but the spouse who made that demand won't divorce, it's a matter
of limited recourse.

I think the wife-initiated stats for divorce reflect that, if for one gender
there is less power within the marriage, more often the only 'out' is out.

Banty

 




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