Breastfeeding rates and advertising

"T Flynn" wrote in message
...
On 24 May 2006, Caledonia wrote:

I never mastered NIP, and basically never did it. For me, there was
also something about exposing my body (hey, I'll sporadically wear
walking shorts in the summer -- but that's about it) that I wasn't
comfortable with -- likewise, I'm not comfortable with the social kiss,
or the out-of-nowhere hug. So as an alternate data point, maybe women
don't NIP because they just don't want to expose themselves (call it
what you will -- unduly hung-up, recovering from being verly oogled as
a young woman, or just plain fuddy-duddy).

I rarely/barely ever nursed in public. I occasionally nursed at a
rear-facing seat in the library computer lab -- there was virtually no way
anyone could see anything -- or I'd wedge myself into a back little corner
away from anyone else. But even this wasn't until after she was like 3
months old. Maybe it's the whole Advanced Maternal Age thing, but I was
barely able to leave the house until she was 3-4 months old.


In stark contrast almost, I don't give a toss where I feed the baby. I used
to be a very very private individual I'd say in the fuddy-duddy camp, and
still am in many ways, but when it comes to feeding I just frankly don't
care. If baby needs fed, then so be it. If someone gets a view of something
they shouldn't then tough. Don't get me wrong, I'm discrete, but I just
don't care if someone gets a glimpse of something they shouldn't. I'm not
some militant breastfeeding fanatic looking for a fight, if baby needs fed
and I'm out, then baby gets fed, and I still go out as normal. Planes,
trains, automobiles, anywhere I don't care, not done a bus yet though,
cafes, restuarants, theatre, shopping centres ... anywhere. I've never had
any funny looks, but then again, I've not looked for any and wouldn't care
if they did, they shouldn't be being nosey. Strangley enough, I feel more
uncomfortable feeding in front of family members that I don't see very
often, yet strangers I don't care about.

If some sad git gets their jollies from catching a glimpse of my 39 year old
"fed 3 kids boobs" then good luck to 'em.

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
hmm, where I live it doesn't seem to be initiating breastfeeding that is a
problem, even in my very local area where rates at all ages are lower than
the rest of the city, but still better than an equivalent area in a
different location. The problem generally seems to be carrying on, I was
shocked a couple of weeks ago when I popped into our local new mums group
and all the people who were there were formula feeding, but I know that
almost all of them breastfeed for 2-4 months, maybe more.

I know that there is a huge drop off between birth and 6 weeks, which I
can understand, it generally seems to be to do with difficulties and
tiredness and the way to change that is improving support, but after 2 or
so months those initial problems should be over, yet vast swathes of
people seem to stop after that point. When I've talked to people the most
common answer is along the lines of they've had enough, which I suppose
says something about the way you see your body, but I'm not sure it's
sexual, more ownership.

I'm in the UK too.

It's strange isn't it. I think there's such a big drive to get women to
breastfeed, that they don't concentrate enough on what to do after the
initial first few months. I think there's a whole heap of things that come
into play to stop breastfeeding after the first few months.

One thing I find quite strange is what "weaning means". I remember with my
first kid, friends of mine were discussing weaning, and it seemed to mean to
them starting solids ***AND*** transferring from breastfeeding to bottle
feeding formula at 4 months. How bizarre. I know when I fed my first, I had
no particular idea of how long to feed for, but I was reading this newsgroup
at the time, so got various ideas that it went longer than 4-6 months. As
someone else stated around here, I also breastfeed cause I'm lazy. It's just
such an easy thing to do (I did have loads of problems with my first, but
got past them). I remember them having big discussions (we were at a baby
massage class) about dropping breast feeds to replace with a bottle feed.
Crikey I couldn't be bothered.

I think there are a whole heap of factors involved as to why women stop
breastfeeding early. I've always felt that various options aren't put
forward enough to women, especially those who return to work. With my 1st
and 2nd, I returned to work full time when the babies were around 6.5 months
old. In each case they got formula when away from me, and I fed them whenver
they were with me (with the 2nd child I worked from home 2 days a week and 3
days in the office, so she got more "of the good stuff"). By the time the
babies were 6 months old, I couldn't pump more than an 1oz in a session. If
anyone asked and I told them, they most likely to say something like "didn't
know you could do that", to which I would respond "course you can, the body
adjusts and supplies milk when required."

I think there is very little information around about what to do if you
return to work and what options there are. I'd imaging that pumping would
put people off (it does me, as it's a lot of work and I couldn't pump much
.... oohh for the first few weeks when 8 oz would just pour out of the boobs
via the pump into the bottle), but there are other options such as combined
formula and breast milk.

Women also seem to want to be released from the "burden of feeding". My SIL
stopped at 6 months, cause she was "finished", had "done her bit" so to say.
Maybe people want to return to drinking or socialising, again though,
drinking can be done if women know to avoid feeding for x amount of time or
pump and dump. Maybe she'd got the impression that's how long you breastfeed
for. Maybe that's what HER mum did. Who knows.

Again recently, I was at a baby class thingy and one women mentioned she'd
like someone to come to discuss weaning as she didn't want to breastfeed her
kid forever (kid currently 7/8 months). Maybe it's just me, but weaning is
about introducing solids, what you do about the milk side of things is
separate is it not ?


I also find that what more general support there is can often be
unhelpful, I have a friend who is bfing her 10 month old, she is a very
atypical breastfeeder, very low level of education, unmarried, smoker etc.
yet I've never heard any of the workers at any of the groups we go to
encourage her to carry on to a year, she's not even clear what she wants
herself, but she's definitely not beeing given the message that carrying
on is the best for both of them and if I dare to say so I get people
disagreeing, not mums, but people who are paid and trained to be
supporting families.


I think as I've said above, totally agree. I think Health Visitors and
midwives get lost at around the 4/5/6 month mark and don't have any advice
to offer for after that time. Which is clearly wrong ! Again, with my first,
I just bumbled along without support from professionals. As said, reading
this group gave me ideas about how long I should continue for (I stopped
feeding her when she was around 17 months). Should also say that my mum and
eldest sister breastfed so there's was lots of family role models although
they mostly had stopped breastfeeding by the 12 month mark.

I don't see any point asking any HV or midwife about what to do with my 3rd
child as I don't believe they'll be able to add anything. I intend to return
to work part time with this one, and she'll be 10.5 months by then so I'm
sort of thinking of just letting her get water/juice when I'm away and
feeding her the rest of the time myself.

I also think part of the problem is lack of knowledge or the "loss of
collective wisdom". Given that we are in a situation where many women have
not breastfed over a number of generations, then there is a loss of family
knowledge (and role models) and a loss of general community knowledge. WHO
DO you ask in your local community if you've got a problem ? Probably your
HV or midwife ... so it will all depend on THEIR knowedge.

I think the web address for this group should be in the literature for
breastfeeding support. On-line communities like this have the ability to
replace the lost "collective wisdom" of old.

I have a whole rant brewing about the midwife who was the "breastfeeding
midwife" when I have DD3 in hospital. But DD3 has just woken for her
midnight milk fest, so I'm off.

I wish I was going to be living in this area longer as I would love to get
involved with evaluating how breastfeeding rates have changed since
various initiatives have started and also look at what other things we
could do.

The only way that I think formula adverts do make a difference is that I
feel that the general belief is that it is impossible to never feed a baby
formula.

Anne

I think there are a whole heap of factors involved as to why women stop
breastfeeding early. I've always felt that various options aren't put
forward enough to women, especially those who return to work. With my 1st
and 2nd, I returned to work full time when the babies were around 6.5
months old. In each case they got formula when away from me, and I fed
them whenver they were with me (with the 2nd child I worked from home 2
days a week and 3 days in the office, so she got more "of the good
stuff"). By the time the babies were 6 months old, I couldn't pump more
than an 1oz in a session. If anyone asked and I told them, they most
likely to say something like "didn't know you could do that", to which I
would respond "course you can, the body adjusts and supplies milk when
required."

correction. DD1 i worked 2 days at home, 3 in the office. With DD2, i worked
mostly from home.

T Flynn wrote:

I think much of it has to do with how people see parenthood. You've got
baby pods, you've got car seat systems with basket handles, you've got
nurseries across the house from the "master bedroom", you've got all these
newfangled gadgets to separate the kid from the physical contact with
parents, and it's just an extension to think breastfeeding is an
inconvenience. I just want to hold pregnant women by the shoulders and say
"Many babies don't sleep through the night for their first year. Babies
want to be held because it's GOOD FOR THEM. Babies are not manipulative
or spoiled if you give them what they need. Now go to the dentist."

Awesome!
--
Cheri Stryker
mom to DS1 - almost 7!, and DS2 - 3 months

Happy Hunter wrote:


If some sad git gets their jollies from catching a glimpse of my 39 year old
"fed 3 kids boobs" then good luck to 'em.

hee hee. I'm gonna keep that as my nursing mantra.
--
Cheri Stryker
mom to DS1 - almost 7!, and DS2 - almost 3 months

"Happy Hunter" wrote and I snipped:

Women also seem to want to be released from the "burden of feeding". My
SIL stopped at 6 months, cause she was "finished", had "done her bit" so
to say. Maybe people want to return to drinking or socialising, again
though, drinking can be done if women know to avoid feeding for x amount
of time or pump and dump. Maybe she'd got the impression that's how long
you breastfeed for. Maybe that's what HER mum did. Who knows.

Great points in your post, but this one stood out because it's really a
myth. You can have a drink when you're breastfeeding and not wait long or
pump and dump. Such a very little alcohol gets into your milk that it's
less than what would be in cough syrup. So if your baby is old enough to
get some OTC meds like that, don't worry about having a drink.

I'm curious..... Is this a new nickname for you? Who did you used to be?

HTH,
-Patty, mom of 1+2

Liz wrote:
Don't want to sound negative, but I wonder if the promotion of breastfeeding
itself isn't also a factor. To be honest, I haven't been bombarded with ads
for formula (I can't recollect having seen any); I've been much more
bombarded with recommendations to breastfeed. It's being promoted as not
only best for baby, but such a wonderful bonding experience, as if it's the
most wonderful thing you could ever experience. I wonder if people are
disappointed in the reality, and therefore give up. It can be uncomfortable,
you can get mastitis, you can't wear your favourite dresses, your breasts
can be painfully full in the morning, etc. Perhaps the promotion of
breastfeeding just needs to be a bit more realistic - and so does the
support for those who do continue. BTW I haven't given up myself, and intend
to continue for at least a year, for two reasons: because it's best for my
baby, and because formula, bottles, sterilising, heating etc just seems so
much trouble.

Everything she said applies to me (except ds has a couple of bottles in
the day at nursery). I had a lot of trouble bf'ing in the beginning and
I was heartily sick of reading the booklets that just said 'if it hurts
you are doing it wrong'. How unhelpful!!!!!!
Since reading this ng and meeting other new mums, it seems a lot more
mums have problems than is portrayed. I can see lots of scenarios (I
know of at least one mum) who just gave up because they just thought
they couldn't do it properly. They knew full well formula wasn't the
best option but just couldn't solve their problems so gave up. I think
it is insulting to women to say if they are told of the problems then
it might put them off - I'd rather know that it is *normal* to have
problems *and that they CAN be overcome* rather than feel a failure for
not having the baby perfectly latched and feeding within a milisecond
of it's birth.

Jeni

In stark contrast almost, I don't give a toss where I feed the baby. I
used to be a very very private individual I'd say in the fuddy-duddy camp,

me too, but it's interesting to see how motherhood can change you, yesterday
I went to the doctors, a friend took me as DH is away and I can't drive at
the moment, usually she would have stayed in the waiting room but because of
a couple of things I needed to discuss I wanted some support, but that meant
she was their whilst I dealt with another issue, a rash on my back, I didn't
even think twice about whipping my top off at the doctors request in front
of her. Before having children I wouldn't have even done that in front of my
mother.

Anne

Everything she said applies to me (except ds has a couple of bottles in
the day at nursery). I had a lot of trouble bf'ing in the beginning and
I was heartily sick of reading the booklets that just said 'if it hurts
you are doing it wrong'. How unhelpful!!!!!!


I have to agree, all the literature that is thrust at you in the UK is not
the most helpful, it comes from a variety of agencies, but none are uniquely
breastfeeding agencies, but health promotion, that kind of thing.

I was helping on a breastfeeding stand and a local event a couple of
weekends ago, the material they had there was actually very good, it was all
cartoon style pictures and fully mentioned all the pain issues, there was an
info sheet on sore nipples, assuming that the latch was already correct.
There was also a couple of leaflets, breastfeeding for dads and
breastfeeding for grandmothers. Really useful stuff, but not widely
available. I don't know why the stuff that everyone gets is so poor when
there is good info available.

Anne

Maybe it's just me, but weaning is about introducing solids, what you do
about the milk side of things is separate is it not ?

that's a very UK meaning of the word, if you look up weaning in a dictionary
it is about a mammal no longer having it's mothers milk, not about when
other foods are introduced. It's come up many times on here when UK mothers
have been confused by what others have said and non UK mothers have been
totally confused by our use of the word weaning.

Personally I've stopped using the word at all, but I do agree very much that
a lot of people seem to want to switch it all over together, so starting
solids seems to mark the start of the end of breastfeeding, whereas a more
normal pattern is that breastfeeding and eating solids is something that
goes on a lot longer than exclusively breastfeeding.

Anne