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Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridation finally?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 22nd 04, 07:50 PM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridation finally?

Fluoridation has been rendered ILLEGAL in most of Europe... See below.

I'm hoping we can do the same here in America.


Assumption: THOR common law is common law in all 50 states...

CAN **THOR** HAMMER FLUORIDATION FINALLY?

Simple THOR question below.


Involuntary mass fluoride ion chemotherapy ("fluoridation") is OBVIOUS mass
battery under THOR - even if it "works" to prevent cavities - though I
suspect it does not - at least not very well....

Mass battery against children is mass child abuse.

Perhaps my SINGLE suspected child abuse report (augmented by Peter
Glickman's video of The Great Fluoride Debate) will do the trick in Pinellas
County? See below.


CAN FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL CHARLIE CRIST END FLUORIDATION IN FLORIDA?

I think so.

See the very end of this post...


CALIFORNIA EPA to end fluoridation in California?


THOR is California common law. Hopefully, some municipalities in America
can end fluoridation before Prof. Connett's 1st Citizens Conference on
Fluoride at the end of this month...

For conference details,

See The Disneyland DA and The Fluoride Deception...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2629

(More on the Disneyland DA below.)





THOR

The California Supreme Court wrote in its THOR decision [1993]:

"The common law has long recognized this principle: A physician who
performs any medical procedure without the patient's consent commits a
battery irrespective of the skill or care used." [Daniel Thor v. The
Superior Court of Solano County 93 C.D.O.S. 5658 at 5659]

Since battery of a child is child abuse.

A SIMPLE THOR QUESTION: Should fluoridation without consent be reported as
suspected child abuse in California - even if fluoridation is good medical
care?

YES - under THOR common law even good medical care is a battery when consent
is not obtained.

Fluoridation may NOT be good medical care...

NOTE TO READERS UNFAMILIAR WITH FLUORIDATION: Fluoridation is mass
involuntary low dose fluoride ion chemotherapy to prevent cavities (dental
caries). It is performed by elected officials via a medical procedure which
usually involves injecting toxic waste (hydrofluorosilicic acid) into a
municipality's drinking water - over the protests of those who do not give
their consent...

CDC FRAUD?

Environmental chemist Prof. Paul Connett recently wrote to the St.
Petersburg Times:

"[T]he CDC...claimed the drop in tooth decay (from the 1960s to the 1990s)
was related to the percentage of the population drinking fluoridated
water...World Health Organization figures that showed these same or greater
declines were occurring in most nonfluoridated countries, thus suggesting
that the CDC authors were either incompetent or fraudulent."
http://stpetetimes.com/2004/07/09/Ta...icize_fl.shtml

As noted above, in Europe most countries have rendered the practice of
fluoridation illegal. "Rendered illegal" is the phraseology used by 2000
Nobel Laureate in Physiology and Medicine Dr. Arvid Carlsson. See The
Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson [NY: Seven Stories 2004:241]

In 2000, a British study found that fluoride studies aren't high quality but
15% of cavities may be prevented by fluoridation. [The Fluoride Deception.
2004:xix]

In the UK, polls reportedly show that 80% - 97% of the people in the major
population centers oppose
fluoridation. (per George Glasser via Jane Jones, Campaign Director,
National Pure Water Association)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fluoride/message/1109

Our Environmental Protection Agency/EPA maximum permissible fluoride level
is 4ppm.

How did EPA arrive at 4ppm?

When EPA tried to force South Carolina to bring its fluoride level down to
EPA's previous maximum permissible level of 2.3ppm, South Carolina sued - so
EPA simply raised the maximum permissible level to 4ppm! [The Fluoride
Deception. 2004:346]

1500 EPA scientists, engineers and lawyers protested - but to no avail.

WEIRD FACT: EPA supports fluoridation - but 1500 EPA scientists, engineers
and lawyers do not...

Also, there is a CANCER risk that EPA tried to cover-up...

Dr. J. William Hirzy, one of the EPA scientists opposed to fluoridation
writes; "EPA fired the Office of Drinking Water's chief toxicologist, Dr.
William Marcus...for refusing to remain silent on the cancer risk issue (9).
The judge who heard the lawsuit...[found]...that EPA fired him over his
fluoride work and not for the phony reason put forward by EPA management at
his dismissal. Dr. Marcus won his lawsuit and is again at work at EPA..."
http://www.fluoridealert.org/hp-epa.htm

In 1993, our own National Academy of Sciences finally admitted that
fluoridation at HALF of EPA's permissible level can cause "crippling
skeletal fluorosis." [Fluoride Deception. 2004:221]

FLUORIDE NEUROTOXIC? Dr. Phyllis Mullenix found out that atom bomb
toxicologist Harold Hodge suspected fluoride to be a neurotoxin years before
she proved it was - and her boss - Jack Hein - apparently lied to about
whether he (Hein) knew. [The Fluoride Deception. 2004:28]

Dr. Mullenix, who will speak at Dr. Connett's 1st Citizen's Conference on
Fluoride at the end of the month (see Disneyland DA URL above), made an
awful discovery - and was ignored by the NIH National Institute of Dental
Research.

Obviously, the fluoride deception should end immediately.

Per the California Supreme Court's THOR decision - even if fluoride is good
medical care (which it likely is not) - it is mass battery - mass child
abuse - because people oppose it/did not give their consent.

ASSUMPTION: The California Supreme Court's THOR common law is similar to
common law in all 50 states.

Evidence that THOR common law is similar to Florida common law?

A BIZARRE FLORIDA CASE...

In 2001, Jesus F. Quiles sued the City of Boynton Beach, Florida for
performing the medical procedure of injecting the toxic waste
hydrofluorosilicic acid into his water ("fluoridating" city water)...

Quiles lost the trial and appealed.

The 4th District Court of Appeal of the State of Florida LIED for the City
of Boynton Beach:

"The introduction of fluoride into the city's water is not a 'medical
procedure'...[T]he city...is not seeking to introduce the
mineral directly into Quiles's bloodstream...[T]he city's
fluoridation...stops with Quiles's water faucet. The city is NOT compelling
him to drink it....[The city IS though compelling Quiles to - TG^^^] filter
it, boil it, distill it, mix it with purifying spirits, or purchase bottled
drinking water."

QUILES v. THE CITY OF BOYNTON BEACH
CASE NO. 4D01-71
Opinion filed November 21, 2001 (emphases added)
http://www.4dca.org/Nov2001/11-21-01/4D01-71.pdf

^^^NOTE: The Court wrote "He is free to filter it" - but the city is
obviously COMPELLING Quiles to PAY to filter his water (or boil it or
distill it or...)

The Court also wrote:

"...[F]reedom to choose not to ingest fluoride remains intact."

Nope. The City of Boynton Beach gave its residents the "free"dom to choose
to PAY EXTRA to choose not to ingest fluoride - and the Florida appeals
court went along with the gag and LIED: Cities and counties in Florida are
not intending to put fluoride in bloodstreams^^^ - they are fluoridating
FAUCETS - not people.

The Florida Supreme Court rubberstamped the obvious fraud.

^^^Note: BLOODSTREAMS... CDC has changed its tune... CDC now indicates that
fluoride acts TOPICALLY. While ingesting fluoride (to get it into the
bloodstream) is said to "enhance" saliva to topically bathe teeth -
bloodstream fluoride endangers children's enamel. Bloodstream bad - topical
good - esp. good for poor children without dentists (goes the CDC gag) -
which is why opponents like Dr. Hardy Limeback of Canada say if we must
fluoridate teeth we should do it by giving out fluoridated toothpaste at
food banks. If fluoride is in toothpaste, people can easily CHOOSE to use
it - or reject it. It works best topically anyway. See The Fluoride
Deception 2004:xx.

Regarding CDC's "poor children without dentists" gag...

See DOH! Is CDC's Homer Simpson creating violent kids? (Read Westendorf -
and Masters and Coplan)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2657


For full text of the Florida QUILES decision - and the Florida Supreme Court
rubberstamping it...

See Florida Fluoride Is For Faucets - Not People!
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2667


Again quoting the California Supreme Court's THOR decision [1993]:

"The common law has long recognized this principle: A physician who
performs any medical procedure without the patient's consent commits a
battery irrespective of the skill or care used." [Daniel Thor v. The
Superior Court of Solano County 93 C.D.O.S. 5658 at 5659]

In California, battery of a child is child abuse.

KEY POINT: Anyone MAY report child abuse by calling or emailing the sheriff
or Child Protective Services - but health care professionals MUST report -
if they so much as SUSPECT child abuse.

California DCs are mandatory suspected child abuse reporters part of whose
stated MISSION is "freedom of choice in health care."

Fluoridation is involuntary mass chemotherapy!

WHY are California DCs silent?

(Why are DC members of the Pinellas County Chiropractic Society silent?)

NOTE TO ANY MANDATORY REPORTERS WHO MAY BE READING (chiropractic physicians
or otherwise): I am NOT asking whether you think reporting suspected child
abuse would do any good.

NOT ONE state suspected child abuse reporting law states that mandatory
reports are not to be filed if the reporter thinks the report wouldn't do
any good. Indeed *failure* to report suspected child abuse is a crime.

In California, if a mandatory reporter so much as SUSPECTS child abuse, an
IMMEDIATE telephone report to the sheriff or Child Protective Services is
mandated. See Calif. Penal Code Section 11165 et seq.

CCA members in Orange County, California have a professional link to the
DA - to the very person who can ACT TO STOP CHILD ABUSE...

Disneyland DA Tony Rackauckas' campaign manager was "chiropractic" attorney
Michael J. Schroeder - former chairman of the California Republican Party.

Disneyland DA Rackauckas might eventually heed DC reports and stop the
injection of toxic waste into Disneyland drinking water...

Disneyland DA's spokeswoman is deputy DA Susan Kang Schroeder, the wife of
Schroeder.

See ACLU to end fluoridation?
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2661


I've made MULTIPLE telephone (well, email) reports to Disneyland DA Tony
Rackauckas...

(I'm cc'ing him *this* report - via .)

To my knowledge I am the only person reporting fluoridation as the mass
child battery - mass child abuse - that it is.

I've also made email reports to Pinellas County, Florida Sheriff Everett
Rice.

Specifically, I named Pinellas County public officials Pick Talley and John
Heilman, MD...

I think my report to Sheriff Rice was mentioned in the St. Petersburg Times.

I LIKE that Pick Talley reportedly advised Pinellas County commissioners to
wait!

More on this below.



PETER GLICKMAN SILENT...

ATTENTION Peter Glickman, president of Pinellas Citizens for Safe Water
)

Peter,

Do you suspect child abuse?

If you don't suspect child abuse, do you think people who DO suspect child
abuse should report?

NOTE #1: I'm asking in the THOR context above where even if a medical
procedure is good, failure to obtain consent is still a battery. I'm
assuming that Florida shares California's THOR common law sentiment.

NOTE #2: I am NOT asking if you think reporting suspected child abuse would
do any good, since, as noted above, it is illegal for mandatory reporters to
FAIL to report suspected child abuse.

NOTE #3: By the same logic, people who are not mandatory reporters and who
suspect child abuse should be ENCOURAGED to report - not discouraged via
silence of a leader...which is one of the reasons I am again making a public
query - this time also to the Pinellas Fluoride discussion list...

REGARDLESS whether you suspect child abuse, would you (as I have been
asking) see to it that Pinellas County Sheriff gets a copy of the video of
The Great Fluoride Debate?

I was glad to donate the $100 dollars - and - as I've noted - I want to pay
for the video and its delivery to the sheriff.

Whoever delivers it, could you ask them to get a receipt from the sheriff's
office?

Thanks,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


Copied to these people at The St. Petersburg Times...







St. Petersburg Times staff writer Michael Sandler apparently reported my
suspected child abuse report:

"[An opponent] filed a complaint with the Sheriff's Office on Wednesday,
suggesting [Pinellas County public officials] Talley
and Heilman should be charged with 'child abuse.'"
http://stpetetimes.com/2004/07/09/Ta...icize_fl.shtml

St. Petersburg Times staff writer Michael forgot to report that I said I
don't want Talley or Heilman punished - I just want municipalities to stop
injecting toxic waste into drinking water..

See Chemically beating children: Dr. Gastaldo's SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORT
to Pinellas County Sheriff Everett Rice...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2646

St. Petersburg Times Reporter Michael, would you follow-up and do a story on
Sheriff Rice's intentions? I was assured that he would read and consider my
suspected child abuse report. I'm hoping he'll view the video mentioned
herein before making his decision as to whether to take whatever action is
necessary to stop the injection of toxic waste into Pinellas County drinking
water.


Copied also to:

Tampa Tribune
http://tampatrib.com/opinion/lettertotheeditor.htm

P.O. Box 191, Tampa, FL 33601-4005

Tampa Bay Newspapers
http://www.tbnweekly.com/services/ed...ms/letters.php
faxed to 397-5900

10621 117th Drive N., Largo, FL 33773


Channel 38 TV WB News
Phone: 813-369-9238
Fax: 813-367-9240


Channel 8 TV News
WFLA-TV
P.O. Box 1410
Tampa, FL 33601
Phone: (813) 221-5788


Channel 13 Fox TV News


WMNF-FM radio
fax: 813-238-1802
phone: 813-238-8001



George Glasser (currently in UK):
email:

Website:
www.gtigerclaw.bigstep.com

Jane Jones, Campaign Director, National Pure Water Association
email:
Website:
www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk

I'm cc'ing the Pinellas County Fluoride Yahoo Discussion Group...

The Pinellas County Fluoride Discussion Group is "intentionally NOT listed
in the Yahoo Group Directory to avoid getting members from outside the local
area."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fluoride/

My apologies to the Group for being outside the local area - but Peter
Glickman, president of Pinellas Citizens for Safe Water has been entirely
silent about the obvious mass child abuse that (to my knowledge) - is so far
failing to report - and he is apparently also failing to encourage others to
report - if they suspect child abuse.

FLUORIDATION "TOTALLY CRIMINAL"...

Dr. Hardy Limeback of the University of Toronto in Canada who used to be a
fluoride promoter but now is a fluoride protester says fluoridation is
"totally criminal." (See The Fluoride
Deception by Christopher Bryson [2004:225].)

Dr. Limeback is quoted:

"'I did not realize the toxicity of
fluoride...I had taken the word of the public health dentists, the public
health physicians, the USPHS, the USCDC, the ADA, the CDA [Canadian Dental
Association] that fluoride was safe and effective without actually
investigating it myself.'" [Limeback quoted in Bryson 2004:xix])

This is EXACTLY what Pinellas County (and other) experts are doing - but
Pick Talley and John Heilman, MD - after being told of the toxicity - are
ignoring it and recommending fluoridation - which I why I reported them for
child abuse.

(Again, Pick Talley reportedly advised Pinellas County commissioners to wait
on fluoridation. See below.)

I don't want the two men punished - or the Pinellas County commissioner - I
just want the mass child abuse to stop. Local experts everywhere have GOT
to stop taking the words of "experts" who are parroting and promoting the
"put it in the water and call it 'product'" legal strategy of toxic fluoride
air polluters.

Dr. Paul Connett says fluoridation is causing "unnecessary harm" to
"millions"...
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

Unnecessary harm to children is child abuse.

Please excuse my indelicate language here but...

It seems very odd to me that anti-fluoridation folks are buying a book (The
Fluoride Deception) where a prominent dentist says fluoridation is "totally
criminal" - yet when I mention it is child abuse and should be reported
immediately in accord with the law - it is as if I farted in church!

WHY is Peter silent?

Confucius say: Man who fart in church end up sitting in own pew.

Here I sit in my own pew - as perfectly good child protection statutes go
unused - as municipalities force children to DRINK "pew" - TOXIC "pew."

Frankly, I'm amazed.

Peter, at the very least, please deliver a copy of the video to Sheriff
Rice.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


PS Good news! Thomas Nocera, a Pinellas County resident has communicated
via email with Peter Glickman and will talk to him about the reporting of
fluoridation as suspected child abuse. (I'm paraphrasing.)

ATTY DOUG BALOG... Thomas will be talking with Attorney Doug Balog, the
attorney whose QUILES analysis I disagreed with...

See Florida Fluoride Is For Faucets - Not People!
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2667

Thomas also writes:

"I also found the toll free number to file a complaint with [Florida
Attorney General] Charlie Crist's office in Tallahassee. I was surprised to
learn that I was the first one to complain of the way fluoridation was being
handled in Pinellas County and I made the complaint of a fraud being
perpetrated."

BRAVO!

About Attorney General Crist and that toll free number...

"...On his first day in office, January 7, 2003, Crist launched Florida's
first-ever hotline designed exclusively to address complaints of fraud...."
http://myfloridalegal.com/ag

Florida Attorney General Crist offers citizens ANOTHER way for Floridians to
protest this obviously illegal practice of medicine by "local public
officials":

"[If you believe your]...local public officials are breaking the law or
engaging in unethical behavior....You may take your concerns to your
region's State Attorney for alleged illegal behavior. These officials have
the authority to prosecute criminal wrongdoing. A list of the State
Attorneys can be found at
http://www.fpaa.state.fl.us/Circuit/circuitlist.asp. Ethical complaints
about public officials are the responsibility of The Florida Commission on
Ethics. The Commission can be reached at 850-488-7864 or on the web at
http://www.ethics.state.fl.us/ "
http://myfloridalegal.com/questions#question10

IS PICK TALLEY ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS?

Dr. Paul Connett mentioned Pick when he wrote in the July 21, 2004 St
Petersburg Times that Pinellas County local public officials "rushed" to
inject toxic waste into Pinellas County drinking water based upon
"out-of-date reviews" - "Instead of waiting for the National Research
Council to report on its latest review of this literature, as recommended by
Pinellas County Utilities Director Pick Talley..."
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/21/Ne...argument.shtml

GO PICK! (Note: Pinellas Commissioner Barbara Sheen Todd voted AGAINST
fluoridation.)

Further regarding Pick...

Clay Tanner just wrote:

"The most recent published statement by Pick Talley identifies the
NSF as a governmental agency that endorses fluoridation. It is not
a governmental agency. It is actually, NSF International...[and]...one of
NSF's major backers and supporters is Lucier - the same Limited Liability
Company that is supplying hydrofluorosilic acid to Pinellas County
and many other communities throughout America. So with the NSF we
have self regulation - and a case of the fox guarding the hen house!"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fluoride/message/1148

Maybe Pick said "non-governmental" and he was just misquoted; but why would
Pick fail to note that hydrofluorosilicic acid peddlars at Lucier support
NSF?

And that video of the Pinellas County Commission - I do not recall Pick
reminding commissioners that he had advised them to wait.

Pick was there supporting the fluoridation cheerleading of Pinellas County
Health Department's John Heilman, MD - or so it seemed to me.

Again, I don't want anyone punished - I just want cities and counties to
stop injecting toxic waste into drinking water.

If Pinellas County stopped - other counties in Florida would be encouraged
to stop.

The State of Florida could lead America away from forcing children to drink
toxic waste.

That would be so cool!

Florida Attorney General CHARLIE CRIST could do it.

Copied to:

Florida State Attorney Curtis A. Golden (Pensacola) and

Florida State Attorney Bernie McCabe (Clearwater) via

Florida State Attorney Barry Krisher (West Palm Beach)


FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL CHARLIE CRIST: The 4th Circuit's Quiles decision
(see above) in effect ruled that fluoride is not a medical procedure and
that it is not intended for bloodstreams but rather for FAUCETS - not
people. This is an obvious JUDICIAL FRAUD - probably a lame attempt to get
around THOR-like common law in Florida.

I note that in three Florida counties (Broward, Hillsborough and Manatee)
the attorneys in your Children's Legal Services Division are "charged with
the responsibility of litigating child abuse" in cases where children have
been "long-time sufferers of abuse..."
http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/...3?OpenDocument

Many counties in Florida are long-time injectors of toxic waste into
children's drinking water over the protests of parents.

If THOR common law applies in Florida, obvious mass battery - obvious child
abuse - is occurring.

Please litigate immediately.

Thanks for reading everyone.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


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  #2  
Old July 23rd 04, 03:41 AM
Wendy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridationfinally?

So Todd, are you saying that when my pediatrician recommended "Nursery
Water" which is fluoridated, to mix formula with, she was actually
trying to "kill" or "abuse" my child? And if this is so, why are you the
only one who knows about it? Honestly, I have never heard that fluoride
is bad. She recommended it to protect his teeth.

Wendy

  #3  
Old July 23rd 04, 04:36 PM
Em
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridationfinally?

"Wendy" wrote in message
So Todd, are you saying that when my pediatrician recommended "Nursery
Water" which is fluoridated, to mix formula with, she was actually
trying to "kill" or "abuse" my child? And if this is so, why are you

the
only one who knows about it? Honestly, I have never heard that

fluoride
is bad. She recommended it to protect his teeth.


While I don't purport to know why Todd has decided to switch his focus
to fluoride, there is a lot of information available recently that
fluoride can be very damaging (particularly ingested fluoride--vs. a
topical application). There is information available from conventional
and unconventional sources.

I am far from an expert about fluoride and don't have a strong opinion
about it, I just wanted to let you know that it isn't only Todd that
feels that way and that, yes, many would consider your doctor's advice
to be inappropriate. Even the AAP only recommends fluoride
supplementation if the water supply is very low in fluoride and they do
not recommend fluoride supplements at *all* for a baby under 6 months
old.

--
Em
mama to L-baby, 10 months old


  #4  
Old July 23rd 04, 10:35 PM
Melania
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridation finally?

(Wendy) wrote in message ...
So Todd, are you saying that when my pediatrician recommended "Nursery
Water" which is fluoridated, to mix formula with, she was actually
trying to "kill" or "abuse" my child? And if this is so, why are you the
only one who knows about it? Honestly, I have never heard that fluoride
is bad. She recommended it to protect his teeth.

Wendy


I would normally never enter into a discussion like this, since people
are so polarized and unlikely to change their opinion, but I find the
idea of equating fluoridation and the beating of children so utterly
repellent that I have to put in my two cents' worth:

My first encounter with anyone being against fluoride in the drinking
water was when I watched "Dr. Strangelove" (1964), when the unhinged
"US Air Force General Jack D. Ripper (Sterling Hayden) plans to start
a nuclear war with the Soviet Union in order to stop what he believes
to be a fearful Communist conspiracy to put fluoride in the water
supply, thereby threatening our "precious bodily fluids"." (summary
from Wikipedia). So, the debate about fluoridation has been kicking
around for a long time. I agreed with the filmmakers that it seemed
like a paranoid thing to be worried about, so you know my position on
the issue, going in.

Where I was born and grew up the water was fluoridated, and we all
*knew* the water was fluoridated. I knew nobody who disagreed with the
practice. Anyone in dentistry who has seen my teeth out here in
Vancouver, where the water is not fluoridated, has remarked on the
strength and cavity-free nature of them - and then asked where I was
from!

If a community, like the one I grew up in, overwhelmingly supports
fluoridation, it can hardly be considered to be administered without
the public's consent. On top of that, every medical procedure
performed on a child is without his/her consent, since they aren't
capable of giving it. That's the parent or guardian's job. Is the
parent abusing the child every time a medical procedure is required,
since the child can't give consent? Of course not.

I suppose that people who are opposed to fluoridation are also opposed
to other chemicals that are put in tap water, in order to make it
safer for drinking (again, in Vancouver, where the water is not
treated, GI illness is common in the populace after heavy rains - and
it's a rainy place). The solution, for many, is home filtration, or
purchasing water . . . easy if you have the money. As is the case
around the world, the people who can afford the clean water get it,
and the poorer people don't. I actually heard someone remark that
selling filters to people in Bangladesh was a better idea than trying
to put in a purification plant. When it was pointed out that most
people would not be able to afford a filter, he actually said, "no
money, no water." Sometimes, adding trace amounts of chemicals that
have negative effects in large doses outweighs the alternative, if it
means cleaner drinking water for all.

People certainly have the right to choose what enters their bodies,
the good and the bad. Sometimes, living in a society with millions of
other people means that logistically the society rather than the
individual must make that choice. If that makes people upset, I
suppose they can try to change the way the entire society thinks. Or
they can take steps to remove (or add) the bad (or good) substance
from/to their family's diet. This is the case both with people who use
reverse osmosis filters to take contaminants (including fluoride) out
of the treated tap water, and with the parents here in Vancouver who
give their children fluoride drops in order to counter what they
consider to be negligence on the part of the city.

It's a complicated issue, and one that people end up feeling strongly
about be they pro or con. But it doesn't help the con camp's position
to accuse the fluoridators (probably not a word!) of mass child
beating.

JMO,
Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
TTC #2
  #5  
Old July 24th 04, 02:31 AM
Wendy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridationfinally?

I actually have no position pro or con about fluoride whatsoever. The
reason fluoridated water was recommended is we were using bottled
drinking water and she said water with fluoride would be better for his
teeth. I have noticed that Todd makes a lot of really inflammatory
statements regarding many issues, mainly so we will all read his posts,
I imagine. Not all are without value, by the way. I just find it hard to
believe that all OBs are evil psychos that are either forcing women's
birth canals shut or wrenching on their baby's spines.

Wendy

  #6  
Old July 24th 04, 03:23 AM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dr. Strangelove and fluoridation

DR. STRANGELOVE AND FLUORIDATION See below.

I wrote:

Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridation finally?
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2668

Wendy and Melania responded.

My replies are interspersed #####

Wendy wrote:

So Todd, are you saying that when my pediatrician recommended "Nursery
Water" which is fluoridated, to mix formula with, she was actually
trying to "kill" or "abuse" my child?


##### No Wendy I am not saying that.

#### I am though calling attention to the California Supreme Court's THOR
decision which indicates that medical procedures performed without patient
consent constitute battery

##### The many people who oppose involuntary fluoride ion chemotherapy
("fluoridation") are not giving consent - so fluoridation is battery under
THOR - and battery against these people's children is child abuse.

##### Under THOR, fluoridation without consent is mass child abuse - even
if fluoridation is good for children (which I highly doubt).

And if this is so, why are you the
only one who knows about it?


##### I am not the only one who knows. People at the highest levels knew -
and kept their mouths shut. Read The Fluoride Deception by Christopher
Bryson [NY: Seven Stories 2004]

Honestly, I have never heard that fluoride
is bad. She recommended it to protect his teeth.


##### MOST people have heard only good things about fluoride. It's called
The Fluoride Deception. I urge everyone to read the book which exposes it.

##### Melania wrote:


I would normally never enter into a discussion like this, since people
are so polarized and unlikely to change their opinion,


##### I think a lot of people are starting to change their opinion now that
The Fluoride Deception has been exposed by Christopher Bryson.


but I find the
idea of equating fluoridation and the beating of children so utterly
repellent that I have to put in my two cents' worth:


##### Here are my two cents...

#### Physically beating a child is known to produce external bruises and
sometimes terrible injuries inside the body...

#### CHEMICALLY beating a child (fluoridation) RATHER QUICKLY increases the
frequency of staining/mottling of tooth enamel (dental fluorosis), an
outward sign of terrible things happening inside the body.

#### I find the chemical beating of children so utterly repellent that I
repeat what I said in my post:

CDC FRAUD?

Environmental chemist Prof. Paul Connett recently wrote to the St.
Petersburg Times:

"[T]he CDC...claimed the drop in tooth decay (from the 1960s to the 1990s)
was related to the percentage of the population drinking fluoridated
water...World Health Organization figures that showed these same or greater
declines were occurring in most nonfluoridated countries, thus suggesting
that the CDC authors were either incompetent or fraudulent."
http://stpetetimes.com/2004/07/09/Ta...icize_fl.shtml

.....in Europe most countries have rendered the practice of
fluoridation illegal. "Rendered illegal" is the phraseology used by 2000
Nobel Laureate in Physiology and Medicine Dr. Arvid Carlsson. See The
Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson [NY: Seven Stories 2004:241]

In 2000, a British study found that fluoride studies aren't high quality but
15% of cavities may be prevented by fluoridation. [The Fluoride Deception.
2004:xix]

In the UK, polls reportedly show that 80% - 97% of the people in the major
population centers oppose
fluoridation. (per George Glasser via Jane Jones, Campaign Director,
National Pure Water Association)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fluoride/message/1109

Our Environmental Protection Agency/EPA maximum permissible fluoride level
is 4ppm.

How did EPA arrive at 4ppm?

When EPA tried to force South Carolina to bring its fluoride level down to
EPA's previous maximum permissible level of 2.3ppm, South Carolina sued - so
EPA simply raised the maximum permissible level to 4ppm! [The Fluoride
Deception. 2004:346]

1500 EPA scientists, engineers and lawyers protested - but to no avail.

WEIRD FACT: EPA supports fluoridation - but 1500 EPA scientists, engineers
and lawyers do not...

Also, there is a CANCER risk that EPA tried to cover-up...

Dr. J. William Hirzy, one of the EPA scientists opposed to fluoridation
writes; "EPA fired the Office of Drinking Water's chief toxicologist, Dr.
William Marcus...for refusing to remain silent on the cancer risk issue (9).
The judge who heard the lawsuit...[found]...that EPA fired him over his
fluoride work and not for the phony reason put forward by EPA management at
his dismissal. Dr. Marcus won his lawsuit and is again at work at EPA..."
http://www.fluoridealert.org/hp-epa.htm

In 1993, our own National Academy of Sciences finally admitted that
fluoridation at HALF of EPA's permissible level can cause "crippling
skeletal fluorosis." [Fluoride Deception. 2004:221]

FLUORIDE NEUROTOXIC? Dr. Phyllis Mullenix found out that atom bomb
toxicologist Harold Hodge suspected fluoride to be a neurotoxin years before
she proved it was - and her boss - Jack Hein - apparently lied to about
whether he (Hein) knew. [The Fluoride Deception. 2004:28]

Dr. Mullenix, who will speak at Dr. Connett's 1st Citizen's Conference on
Fluoride at the end of the month (see Disneyland DA URL above), made an
awful discovery - and was ignored by the NIH National Institute of Dental
Research.

Obviously, the fluoride deception should end immediately.

Per the California Supreme Court's THOR decision - even if fluoride is good
medical care (which it likely is not) - it is mass battery - mass child
abuse - because people oppose it/did not give their consent.

##### Melania continues - with "Dr. Strangelove"...

My first encounter with anyone being against fluoride in the drinking
water was when I watched "Dr. Strangelove" (1964), when the unhinged
"US Air Force General Jack D. Ripper (Sterling Hayden) plans to start
a nuclear war with the Soviet Union in order to stop what he believes
to be a fearful Communist conspiracy to put fluoride in the water
supply, thereby threatening our "precious bodily fluids"." (summary
from Wikipedia). So, the debate about fluoridation has been kicking
around for a long time. I agreed with the filmmakers that it seemed
like a paranoid thing to be worried about, so you know my position on
the issue, going in.


##### REGARDING DR. STRANGELOVE...

##### Christopher Bryson writes in The Fluoride Deception [2004:xviii]:

"Nile Southern, the son of Dr. Strangelove's screenwriter, Terry Southern,
remarks that the news that U.S military and industrial interests - not
Communists - promoted water fluoridation is 'just shocking...Terry and
Stanley [Kubrick] would have been horrified by it.'"

Where I was born and grew up the water was fluoridated, and we all
*knew* the water was fluoridated. I knew nobody who disagreed with the
practice. Anyone in dentistry who has seen my teeth out here in
Vancouver, where the water is not fluoridated, has remarked on the
strength and cavity-free nature of them - and then asked where I was
from!


#### Fluoridation may prevent 15% of cavities - best estimate from a recent
British look at the literature. See The Fluoride Deception and "CDC FRAUD"
above.

#### In some fluoridated areas, 50% of children have stained/mottled teeth -
and who knows what else going on inside - THEY won't know til many years
later...

If a community, like the one I grew up in, overwhelmingly supports
fluoridation, it can hardly be considered to be administered without
the public's consent.


##### If 100% support fluoridation, I agree that it is not a battery under
THOR.

##### Most European countries have rendered fluoridation illegal. Which
community here in the US supports fluoridation 100%? Have they all been
informed about The Fluoride Deception?

On top of that, every medical procedure
performed on a child is without his/her consent, since they aren't
capable of giving it. That's the parent or guardian's job. Is the
parent abusing the child every time a medical procedure is required,
since the child can't give consent? Of course not.


##### If the medical procedure is required, the parent MUST consent. That's
the problem - parents aren't consenting to fluoridation - thus their
children are being abused - even if fluoridation is good medicine - which I
highly doubt after reading The Fluoride Deception.

I suppose that people who are opposed to fluoridation are also opposed
to other chemicals that are put in tap water, in order to make it
safer for drinking (again, in Vancouver, where the water is not
treated, GI illness is common in the populace after heavy rains - and
it's a rainy place).


##### Water is plenty safe without fluoride - which is NOT injected to make
water safer...

The solution, for many, is home filtration, or
purchasing water . . . easy if you have the money. As is the case
around the world, the people who can afford the clean water get it,
and the poorer people don't. I actually heard someone remark that
selling filters to people in Bangladesh was a better idea than trying
to put in a purification plant. When it was pointed out that most
people would not be able to afford a filter, he actually said, "no
money, no water." Sometimes, adding trace amounts of chemicals that
have negative effects in large doses outweighs the alternative, if it
means cleaner drinking water for all.


#### Clean water is not the issue with fluoridation.

People certainly have the right to choose what enters their bodies,
the good and the bad.


#### Not true here in the US. People here in Oregon who choose to smoke
marijuana for medical purposes are still fighting with the feds I think...

Sometimes, living in a society with millions of
other people means that logistically the society rather than the
individual must make that choice.


##### Good point. A weird vaccination societal behavior. Society is
choosing to let MDs promote vaccinations by endangering vaccinated
children - i.e. - by threatening those parents who seek vaccination
exemptions that only their children will be sent home during disease
outbreaks. Parents must eventually be informed that ALL children must go
home (be protected) during disease outbreaks because many vaccinated
children were not immunized by their vaccinations. MDs have GOT to stop
promoting their vaccinations by endangering vaccinated children. But I
digress....

If that makes people upset, I
suppose they can try to change the way the entire society thinks.


##### Christopher Bryson summarizes some HEROIC work by scientists and
non-scientists alike in exposing The Fluoride Deception.

Or
they can take steps to remove (or add) the bad (or good) substance
from/to their family's diet. This is the case both with people who use
reverse osmosis filters to take contaminants (including fluoride) out
of the treated tap water, and with the parents here in Vancouver who
give their children fluoride drops in order to counter what they
consider to be negligence on the part of the city.


##### A Florida court wrote that fluoridation is not a medical procedure and
that the City of Boynton Beach, Florida did not intend that added fluoride
should enter bloodstreams!

##### See again "Chemically beating children" URL above.

It's a complicated issue, and one that people end up feeling strongly
about be they pro or con. But it doesn't help the con camp's position
to accuse the fluoridators (probably not a word!) of mass child
beating.


##### But fluoridation IS mass child beating - CHEMICAL mass child beating.
See above.

##### Under THOR, fluoridation without consent is a battery - a beating -
even if fluoride is good for children - which I doubt.

##### Thanks for reading,

##### Sincerely,

##### Todd

##### Dr. Gastaldo



JMO,
Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
TTC #2



  #7  
Old July 24th 04, 03:49 AM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Irish Infant Formula Fluoride Funny (sordidly funny)


"Wendy" wrote in message
...
I actually have no position pro or con about fluoride whatsoever. The
reason fluoridated water was recommended is we were using bottled
drinking water and she said water with fluoride would be better for his
teeth.


##### Wendy, I hope you'll consider reading The Fluoride Deception by
Christopher Bryson [NY: Seven Stories 2004]

See Dr. Strangelove and fluoridation
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2670

##### IRISH INFANT FORMULA FLUORIDE FUNNY (sordidly funny)


##### Michael Connett writes at www.fluoridealert.org:

When Ireland's Minister of Health convened "The Fluoridation Forum" to
review Ireland's mandatory fluoridation policy, the Forum asked the Food and
Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) to conduct a risk assessment on fluoride.
In the FSAI's initial risk assessment, they concluded:

"The scientific committee agrees that the precautionary principle should
apply and recommends that infant formula should not be reconstituted with
fluoridated tap water."

The FSAI's Scientific Committee voted unanimously (with 9 out of 15
committee members present) to adopt this recommendation at its October 3,
2001 meeting. Soon thereafter, on October 18, 2001, the FSAI's Wayne
Anderson presented the FSAI's conclusions to the Minister's Fluoridation
Forum.

However, in the week following Anderson's presentation to the Forum, some of
the 6 FSAI's Committee members who were not present at the October 3rd vote,
began calling for a retraction and re-examination of the report's
conclusions.

Thus, despite the fact that the Committee vote adopting the report was
unanimous, the FSAI retracted the report, stating that there were "some
errors and that it didn't necessarily take account of all of the science
that was there."

However, another potential reason why the FSAI may have retracted the
report, became quite evident at a July 10, 2003 parliamentary hearing in
Dublin.

At the hearing, it was revealed that Ireland's leading fluoridation
promoter, Dr. Joe Mullen (who was also a member of the Fluoridation Forum)
believed that the FSAI's initial conclusion may have meant the end to water
fluoridation in Ireland.

According to Dr. Mullen's testimony:

"I think it would probably have meant a serious re-evaluation, it probably
would have meant the end of water fluoridation and at the very least a
serious re-appraisal of it."


http://www.fluoridealert.org/science-watch/9.htm



I have noticed that Todd makes a lot of really inflammatory
statements regarding many issues, mainly so we will all read his posts,
I imagine.


##### My statements are mostly graphic - because OBs aren't telling women
what they are doing to them.

Not all are without value, by the way. I just find it hard to
believe that all OBs are evil psychos that are either forcing women's
birth canals shut or wrenching on their baby's spines.

Wendy


#### OBs *are* forcing birth canals closed up to 30% - and they are KEEPING
birth canals closed up to 30% when shoulders get stuck - as they "wrench on"
babies's spines - with birth canals closed up to 30%.

#### I suspect OBs are committing this massive crime because stopping it
would be tantamount to admitting it.

#### For simple PROOF are closing birth canals - and simple instructions on
how women can allow their
birth canals to OPEN their birth canals the "extra" up to 30%...

See I ain't no Semmelweis, but...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591

#### Thanks for reading.

#### Sincerely,

#### Todd

#### Dr. Gastaldo


  #8  
Old July 24th 04, 04:25 AM
Wendy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Irish Infant Formula Fluoride Funny (sordidly funny)

Thank you for your reply, but I still think it sounds a bit exaggerated.

Wendy

  #9  
Old July 24th 04, 05:19 AM
Todd Gastaldo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breasts, fluoride - and the Boston Strangler

BREASTS, FLUORIDE - AND THE BOSTON STRANGLER

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Thank you for your reply, but I still think it sounds a bit exaggerated.

Wendy


Wendy,

If you perceive any errors in what I write, please call them to my
attention.

Look again at the Irish flip-flop regarding reconstituting infant formula
with fluoridated water (see below)...

I know it sounds a bit exaggerated but...

According to Dr. Phyllis Mullenix...

If the Irish hadn't flip-flopped it could have meant an end to fluoridation
in Ireland - or at least a serious reappraisal.

If enough people were to read The Fluoride Deception, fluoridation would end
tomorrow.

I don't think I'm exaggerating - not a bit.

Sincerely,

Todd

PS One of the most incredible parts of The Fluoride Deception is when Dr.
Mullenix discovers that she had been sharing a lab with a "monster" from the
US atomic bomb project. It was like "being in a movie theater, sharing
popcorn with the Boston Strangler," she said...

At the risk of sounding like I am exaggerating a bit...

The Fluoride Deception relates water fluoridation to the US atomic bomb
project during WWII.

I don't know if I would reconstitute baby formula with fluoridated water...

Michael Connett's dad - Prof. Paul Connett - recently pointed out that
breasts filter out fluoride...

So babies probably shouldn't get fluoride supplements - but - of course - do
what your doctor recommends.


MICHAEL CONNETT wrote:

the Food and
Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) to conduct a risk assessment on fluoride.
In the FSAI's initial risk assessment, they concluded:

"The scientific committee agrees that the precautionary principle should
apply and recommends that infant formula should not be reconstituted with
fluoridated tap water."

The FSAI's Scientific Committee voted unanimously (with 9 out of 15
committee members present) to adopt this recommendation at its October 3,
2001 meeting. Soon thereafter, on October 18, 2001, the FSAI's Wayne
Anderson presented the FSAI's conclusions to the Minister's Fluoridation
Forum.

However, in the week following Anderson's presentation to the Forum, some of
the 6 FSAI's Committee members who were not present at the October 3rd vote,
began calling for a retraction and re-examination of the report's
conclusions.

Thus, despite the fact that the Committee vote adopting the report was
unanimous, the FSAI retracted the report, stating that there were "some
errors and that it didn't necessarily take account of all of the science
that was there."

However, another potential reason why the FSAI may have retracted the
report, became quite evident at a July 10, 2003 parliamentary hearing in
Dublin.

At the hearing, it was revealed that Ireland's leading fluoridation
promoter, Dr. Joe Mullen (who was also a member of the Fluoridation Forum)
believed that the FSAI's initial conclusion may have meant the end to water
fluoridation in Ireland.

According to Dr. Mullen's testimony:

"I think it would probably have meant a serious re-evaluation, it probably
would have meant the end of water fluoridation and at the very least a
serious re-appraisal of it."


http://www.fluoridealert.org/science-watch/9.htm



  #10  
Old July 24th 04, 07:38 AM
jitney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chemically beating children: THOR to hammer fluoridation finally?

(Wendy) wrote in message ...
I actually have no position pro or con about fluoride whatsoever. The
reason fluoridated water was recommended is we were using bottled
drinking water and she said water with fluoride would be better for his
teeth. I have noticed that Todd makes a lot of really inflammatory
statements regarding many issues, mainly so we will all read his posts,
I imagine. Not all are without value, by the way. I just find it hard to
believe that all OBs are evil psychos that are either forcing women's
birth canals shut or wrenching on their baby's spines.

Wendy


There is a lot of inflammatory rhetoric on both sides of this issue. I
will start by saying that I think the claims of the dental profession
are true and I support the topical application of fluoride treatments,
including toothpaste, to the teeth of children and adults.
From the perspective of being a chemical engineer and industrial
hygenist, however, I oppose any treatment which involves the bodily
ingestion of the fluoride ion. The same chemical mechanism that
increases the acid resistance of teeth,
namely the ion exchange wherein calcium carbonate becomes calcium
fluoride, can happen, and does happen in bones as well as teeth.
Particularly in children and fetuses, whose bones are undergoing rapid
calcification, this can lead to distortions in bone formation
chemistry. Many of the effects are unknown because they have not been
studied. It has not been studied because the disbursement process for
gov't research funds is heavily politicised, and no funds have been
forthcoming for this kind of research, largely because of the
opposition of the dental professionals in the National Institutes of
Health.
But there are distinct warning signs from credible sources. Why is
sodium fluoride listed with the EPA as a pesticide? Read the back of a
tube of Crest toothpaste, particularly what it says about keeping out
of the reach of children and contacting a poison control center if
more than is usually used for brushing is ingested. Are the scientists
at Proctor&Gamble a bunch of conspiracy wingnuts? Name calling from
both sides of the debate has prevented rational analysis of this issue
for several decades. Let us hope that someday a real scientific
approach to this issue will shed some light on it, from more than just
a dental perspective, one that considers fluoride's effect upon the
whole body, not just the teeth.-Jitney
 




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