Epiphyseal injury and weightlifting

On Dec 9, 12:09 am, John Hanson wrote:


So are you saying that kids shouldn't be playing football, basketball,
track and field, baseball, etc.?

Did I mention football, basketball, track and field, and baseball?

When it comes to growing bodies in particular, we're talking about
proper dosage of the right stuff.

The Hitler Youth were big on marching and hiking. Guess what?
Germany had a whole generation of flat-footed soldiers as a result.
Correlation of causation?

The real question is, why bother? WRT weight-lifting, it's not the
kind of sport that requires early devotion. Whereas the teenage years
are the only years for height gains, there's another decade or two or
three thereafter for lean muscle mass. So what's the rush? Most
girls don't care about muscles, anyway: they care about popularity.

I've posted here many times about my
teenage powerlifting years and my 3 brothers that never powerlifted
nor did they really do any weight training. We are all within 3
inches in height and I'm not the shortest. And, I was squatting 405
at 165 at the age of 17 with just a belt. If anything were to stunt
growth, I would think that would do it.

And George Burns smoked cigars into his nineties. You can always find
an exception.

Now, another interesting thing about this subject was posited by my
good dive buddy in Florida, Curtis. He was wondering what effects
excess nitrogen had on epiphyseal plates in teenagers and children who
weren't finished growing. PADI (as well as a number of other scuba
certification agencies) will not allow divers under the age of 14 to
dive below 40 feet. I had always thought it was due to reasons other
than gas physiology and its affects on children.

Now that's very interesting! I'd not known about that at all. I
wonder...!

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...
The real question is, why bother? WRT weight-lifting, it's not the
kind of sport that requires early devotion. Whereas the teenage years
are the only years for height gains, there's another decade or two or
three thereafter for lean muscle mass. So what's the rush? Most
girls don't care about muscles, anyway: they care about popularity.

Most girls (high school age) don't know what they care about and, if you
have any clue about what you're doing, all of the old axioms about what
girls want go flying straight out the window within about 15 minutes of them
meeting you.

In high school, I was 6' tall and weighed in the 200 -225 pound range. I
swam so I was reasonably thin for my size, but I had (have) a large frame so
I always looked fat. None of the women in school cared one iota what I
looked like. I wasn't a football player (the sport of choice in my area for
hte girls who liked athletes. I wasn't in the "cool group" because I
thought most of those people were douche bags. I was in band (with all of
the associated stigmas). I was in numerous academic clubs (Academic
challenge, honors group, academic decathlon, even the math and spelling
teams). Still, I knew how to talk to women (girls at the time) so that none
of that mattered and I could find a date pretty much any time I wanted one
with pretty much any girl I wanted to go out with (whether she already had a
boyfriend or not).

Then I went to college and experienced the same thing for the first month or
so I was in college. Then, I met my future wife and all that nonsense
stopped.

Now, I've been happily married for nearly 8 years with naught more than a
dirty thought about other women.

On Dec 10, 12:22 pm, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


Most girls (high school age) don't know what they care about and, if you
have any clue about what you're doing, all of the old axioms about what
girls want go flying straight out the window within about 15 minutes of them
meeting you.

True; I was just referring to the weird misconception teenage boys
have about what interests a girl. I suspect such mistaken assumptions
constitute a main motivation for boys taking up weights.

In high school, I was 6' tall and weighed in the 200 -225 pound range. I
swam so I was reasonably thin for my size, but I had (have) a large frame so
I always looked fat. None of the women in school cared one iota what I
looked like. I wasn't a football player (the sport of choice in my area for
hte girls who liked athletes. I wasn't in the "cool group" because I
thought most of those people were douche bags. I was in band (with all of
the associated stigmas). I was in numerous academic clubs (Academic
challenge, honors group, academic decathlon, even the math and spelling
teams). Still, I knew how to talk to women (girls at the time) so that none
of that mattered and I could find a date pretty much any time I wanted one
with pretty much any girl I wanted to go out with (whether she already had a
boyfriend or not).

Yes, a "winner" can live anywhere under any circumstances. Me, I was
almost like you, except I was in a very strict church at the time and
so "girls" weren't among my hobbies, exactly. I was, moreover, a nerd
trapped in an athlete's body, so aside from "intellectual" girls who
liked nerds anyway and especially loved one with a good physique, I
don't think I might have had much success with most girls...though,
curiously enough, the most beautiful girl was into me -- blonde hair,
green eyes, peach-white skin...but, other issues aside, I was
ambivalent about dating black girls at the time. Yes, she was black,
one of the blacks who could totally pass as a white person, and that
kind of freaked me out, I think. I mean, I was a good Chinese boy!
=d

Then I went to college and experienced the same thing for the first month or
so I was in college. Then, I met my future wife and all that nonsense
stopped.

Now, I've been happily married for nearly 8 years with naught more than a
dirty thought about other women.

Whoa -- how does that happen???

My problem now -- after the aforementioned confusions of teenage angst
-- is "deciding" on a girl to "settle down" with...there are so many
hot chicks in NYC, it's absolutely incredible, no matter how sexy my
girlfriend of the moment may be, she's bound to have a sister, friend,
roommate, co-worker -- or mother! (Or daughter!!) -- who's strikingly
more beautiful than her! Heck, even some random chick who stands next
to her at the bus stop will turn out to be sexier than she is!! So I
simply can't decide which one to pursue for keeps...I'm suffering from
a kind of "paralysis of analysis," except it's not the more typical
intellectual kind, but a "physical" sort....

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 12:22 pm, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


Most girls (high school age) don't know what they care about and, if you
have any clue about what you're doing, all of the old axioms about what
girls want go flying straight out the window within about 15 minutes of
them
meeting you.

True; I was just referring to the weird misconception teenage boys
have about what interests a girl. I suspect such mistaken assumptions
constitute a main motivation for boys taking up weights.

In my home town, weight lifting was merely a means to make you a better
football player.

I'm sure that a few guys thought they could get a chick by bulking up and
spent a good deal of their time in said pursuit, but they usually struck out
with the hottest chicks (and generally even the not so hot chicks) and had
to be content with whatever mongrel they could stir up.


In high school, I was 6' tall and weighed in the 200 -225 pound range.
I
swam so I was reasonably thin for my size, but I had (have) a large
frame so
I always looked fat. None of the women in school cared one iota what I
looked like. I wasn't a football player (the sport of choice in my area
for
hte girls who liked athletes. I wasn't in the "cool group" because I
thought most of those people were douche bags. I was in band (with all
of
the associated stigmas). I was in numerous academic clubs (Academic
challenge, honors group, academic decathlon, even the math and spelling
teams). Still, I knew how to talk to women (girls at the time) so that
none
of that mattered and I could find a date pretty much any time I wanted
one
with pretty much any girl I wanted to go out with (whether she already
had a
boyfriend or not).

Yes, a "winner" can live anywhere under any circumstances. Me, I was
almost like you, except I was in a very strict church at the time and
so "girls" weren't among my hobbies, exactly. I was, moreover, a nerd
trapped in an athlete's body,

I was a nerd trapped in a large framed body. I wouldn't by any means
classify it as "athletic," although when I talked to people on the internet
I always described myself as having a swimmer's body. After all, I was a
swimmer, so how could I not have a swimmer's body? I had the classic
Swimmer V, broad shoulders tapering to narrow ankles... but I had (and still
have) a not so classic lump in the middle.

so aside from "intellectual" girls who
liked nerds anyway and especially loved one with a good physique, I
don't think I might have had much success with most girls...

You sell yourself short. Like I said, high-school chicks didn't have any
idea what they wanted. Pretty much any chick who would give me the time of
day ended up thinking that I was exactly her type by the time I was done. I
taught a few of my closest friends the tactics I used. They worked nearly
as well for them as they worked for me. I will say though that it might not
be a good idea to be seen on a date with the quarterback's girlfriend even
if she is super hot.

though,
curiously enough, the most beautiful girl was into me -- blonde hair,
green eyes, peach-white skin...but, other issues aside, I was
ambivalent about dating black girls at the time. Yes, she was black,
one of the blacks who could totally pass as a white person, and that
kind of freaked me out, I think. I mean, I was a good Chinese boy!
=d

Black, white, asian, hispanic... I didn't really care as long as they were
nice people and easy on the eyes. None of them seemed to care much what
race I was either.

The black girls seemed to be the hardest to win over though.


Then I went to college and experienced the same thing for the first
month or
so I was in college. Then, I met my future wife and all that nonsense
stopped.

Now, I've been happily married for nearly 8 years with naught more than
a
dirty thought about other women.

Whoa -- how does that happen???

Hey, I'm still a guy. Just because I got married it doesn't mean that my
eyes stopped working or that my appreciation for the female form became
entirely fixated on my wife. I'm a butt guy (meaning I especially enjoy a
woman with a nice rear end) and whenever I see a good one, I can't help but
think a dirty thought.

It doesn't matter where I get my appetite though, as long as I go home for
dinner.

My problem now -- after the aforementioned confusions of teenage angst
-- is "deciding" on a girl to "settle down" with...there are so many
hot chicks in NYC, it's absolutely incredible, no matter how sexy my
girlfriend of the moment may be, she's bound to have a sister, friend,
roommate, co-worker -- or mother! (Or daughter!!) -- who's strikingly
more beautiful than her! Heck, even some random chick who stands next
to her at the bus stop will turn out to be sexier than she is!! So I
simply can't decide which one to pursue for keeps...I'm suffering from
a kind of "paralysis of analysis," except it's not the more typical
intellectual kind, but a "physical" sort....

My wife isn't the hottest chick ever. She's not even the hottest chick I
dated. She is the best fit for me though, and she's reasonably high on the
hot chart as well.

On Dec 10, 3:08 pm, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


In my home town, weight lifting was merely a means to make you a better
football player.

Ah, sounds like you had a nice wholesome upbringing. Here in NYC, I
think weights are just another opportunity for kids to "pose," for the
lamers to try to act like they're "all that."

I'm sure that a few guys thought they could get a chick by bulking up and
spent a good deal of their time in said pursuit, but they usually struck out
with the hottest chicks (and generally even the not so hot chicks) and had
to be content with whatever mongrel they could stir up.

My talent was art, actually, so I never got into impressing girls with
muscles or stylish clothes. Main thing, though, was the very strict
church I was attending at the time. I think that was probably the
biggest thing, aside from any self-confidence issues and whatnot.

I was a nerd trapped in a large framed body. I wouldn't by any means
classify it as "athletic," although when I talked to people on the internet
I always described myself as having a swimmer's body. After all, I was a
swimmer, so how could I not have a swimmer's body? I had the classic
Swimmer V, broad shoulders tapering to narrow ankles... but I had (and still
have) a not so classic lump in the middle.

Hehe, a "seal"...nowadays, with the hip-hop ethos in teen culture, I
seem to see lots of hot chicks (in the hip-hop sense, anyway, of big
butts) with chubby, even downright fat, boys....

You sell yourself short. Like I said, high-school chicks didn't have any
idea what they wanted. Pretty much any chick who would give me the time of
day ended up thinking that I was exactly her type by the time I was done. I
taught a few of my closest friends the tactics I used. They worked nearly
as well for them as they worked for me. I will say though that it might not
be a good idea to be seen on a date with the quarterback's girlfriend even
if she is super hot.

After I "rejected" that white-looking black girl -- Kareema's her
name, she was going to be Mayor of NYC -- when she sent a mutual
friend over to ascertain my intentions, she wound up going out with a
guy from the track team. I was also on the track team, but I'd not
ever won a race, while this guy, Mike, could be counted on to win a
few heats.

He was a black guy. She was a white-looking black girl and really the
prettiest in the whole school, 'cause she was not only blonde-haired
and green-eyed but she had big breasts and big buttocks but a small,
pinched waist! I'm sure he was happy as ham in honey, while I was
there wondering, geez, why did she have to be black?!?! LOL....

Black, white, asian, hispanic... I didn't really care as long as they were
nice people and easy on the eyes. None of them seemed to care much what
race I was either.

Well, no one actually mentions these things -- except in lockerrooms,
maybe! -- but in my case, she was the most beautiful girl in the
school, but it just freaked me out that she was white-looking but
really black! Another thing, she put her hand on my lap during gym
class once...that boldness felt too "manly" for me, at the time, LOL,
I think I may even have been creeped out by it...sigh!!

The black girls seemed to be the hardest to win over though.

Funny, my experience has been that the black girls are the easiest! I
don't think any one of them was a virgin since like middle school, and
they were almost always just real down-to-earth, very few "princess"
types at all. They knew if you liked them, they knew if they liked
you, and they knew what two people who liked one another did. Simple
as that.

Hey, I'm still a guy. Just because I got married it doesn't mean that my
eyes stopped working or that my appreciation for the female form became
entirely fixated on my wife. I'm a butt guy (meaning I especially enjoy a
woman with a nice rear end) and whenever I see a good one, I can't help but
think a dirty thought.

Well, I guess it's just a matter of discipline, then. Me, I guess I
have an "artist's temperament" and it kills me to think that I'm
"trapped" or "tied down" and can't just go after what I want at the
moment...infantile, yes, but I hate suppressing my desires....

It doesn't matter where I get my appetite though, as long as I go home for
dinner.

Yeah, but your appetite is whetted by steak and you have to go home
for soy burgers...again....

My wife isn't the hottest chick ever. She's not even the hottest chick I
dated. She is the best fit for me though, and she's reasonably high on the
hot chart as well.

Well, congrats. Nothing as admirable as a marriage that endures, I
think. Of all the great intellectual achievements of the species,
marriage has got to be one of them.

I still wish we were in one of them sex-everywhere matriarchies of
old, though....

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 3:08 pm, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


In my home town, weight lifting was merely a means to make you a better
football player.

Ah, sounds like you had a nice wholesome upbringing. Here in NYC, I
think weights are just another opportunity for kids to "pose," for the
lamers to try to act like they're "all that."

Have you seen the movie "Friday Night Lights"?

The school involved is Permian High School in Odessa, TX. I graduated in
1995.

On Dec 10, 9:34 pm, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


The school involved is Permian High School in Odessa, TX. I graduated in
1995.


I read the book, then saw the movie. The book gets preachy about its
liberalism -- too much liberal commentary on the action -- whereas the
movie was more like a TV movie. The TV series got a good review from
slate.com, but I haven't watch TV since high school....

Yeah, teen culture is what it is...there's also a documentary called
"Go Tigers!" about a football town in Michigan somewhere...I love it
when a fat kid says, "this town sucks, I'm getting out of here" in
reference to all the football mania....

Anyway, I don't think weight-lifting is big on the high school scene.
I think it's mainly tied into football, like you mentioned previously.

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 9:34 pm, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


The school involved is Permian High School in Odessa, TX. I graduated
in
1995.


I read the book, then saw the movie. The book gets preachy about its
liberalism -- too much liberal commentary on the action -- whereas the
movie was more like a TV movie. The TV series got a good review from
slate.com, but I haven't watch TV since high school....

To be honest, the movie sugarcoated things. The town (at the time) was much
more involved than even the movie suggested and the pressure to succeed was
greater than portrayed. For Sale signs in the coaches lawn were the nice
part of how the coaches were treated when they lost. It's a sad commentary
and I'm not proud that it was that way, but you lay in the bed you made.

I only watched one episode of the TV series. I was not the least bit
impressed and while it was obviously trying to portray the Permian program,
it did a very poor job of it.

On Dec 11, 10:50 am, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


To be honest, the movie sugarcoated things. The town (at the time) was much
more involved than even the movie suggested and the pressure to succeed was
greater than portrayed. For Sale signs in the coaches lawn were the nice
part of how the coaches were treated when they lost. It's a sad commentary
and I'm not proud that it was that way, but you lay in the bed you made.

Ayup, the book had all those details. The movie was just lame, trying
to be melodramatic about the "nothing" they were showing on-screen
(over-acting and over-staging). Unfortunately, the book's author
couldn't refrain from devoting at least A WHOLE CHAPTER to belaboring
the obvious, talking about how bad racism was, etc. It was like a
commercial message every so often from the ACLU or something (aside
from that one whole chapter, numerous digressions were made,
especially towards the middle and latter parts of the book)! Way
weird.

I only watched one episode of the TV series. I was not the least bit
impressed and while it was obviously trying to portray the Permian program,
it did a very poor job of it.

How was weight-lifting integrated into the football program, exactly?
Like, how many times a week did they lift, how long, exactly what did
they do?

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...
On Dec 11, 10:50 am, "Chris Guynn" wrote:


To be honest, the movie sugarcoated things. The town (at the time) was
much
more involved than even the movie suggested and the pressure to succeed
was
greater than portrayed. For Sale signs in the coaches lawn were the
nice
part of how the coaches were treated when they lost. It's a sad
commentary
and I'm not proud that it was that way, but you lay in the bed you made.

Ayup, the book had all those details. The movie was just lame, trying
to be melodramatic about the "nothing" they were showing on-screen
(over-acting and over-staging). Unfortunately, the book's author
couldn't refrain from devoting at least A WHOLE CHAPTER to belaboring
the obvious, talking about how bad racism was, etc. It was like a
commercial message every so often from the ACLU or something (aside
from that one whole chapter, numerous digressions were made,
especially towards the middle and latter parts of the book)! Way
weird.

I only watched one episode of the TV series. I was not the least bit
impressed and while it was obviously trying to portray the Permian
program,
it did a very poor job of it.

How was weight-lifting integrated into the football program, exactly?
Like, how many times a week did they lift, how long, exactly what did
they do?

I wasn't a football player, so I can't say for sure, but as I recall, they
were in the weight room no less than three mornings per week (supervised).
They were "encouraged" to supplement their supervised weight training with
additional (unsupervised) sessions on the other two mornings and
occasionally in the afternoons.

There are rules in place that prohibit the coaches from working with the
kids more than a certain number of hours per week, so they had the kids do
much of their weightlifting on the kids' time. Obviously, there was someone
watching the whole process, but that person wasn't supposed to do more than
keep the kids from hurting themselves by doing the exercises improperly.

I'd say that the first string varsity guys probably spent no less than 8
hours a week in strength and conditioning exercises of one form or another.