kindergarten concerns

This has been an interesting thread.

Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.

My older boy was the type who tires easily (later discovered a chronic
infection, had the adenoids out, and suddenly had a very energetic child
on my hands). He was only offered 1/2 day kindergarten, but we put him
in daycare for the other 1/2 day for social reasons. He LOVED it. The
morning was strictly academic, the afternoon more play-based, but with
academic content and time to do their homework. (Yup, homework in
kindergarten. What a waste of time ...) He never napped in daycare,
but took advantage of the quiet time after lunch for the first couple of
months.

By the time my younger child entered kindergarten full-day was the only
option. He was a very high-energy youngster. With full-day there was
more social time built in, so instead of being at the desk all the time
there was a lot of time for moving around, for recess, talking over
lunch, and all that good stuff. He loved every second of it.

I think that most kids can adapt to whatever environment they're put
in. I suspect that the child's ability to "handle" a full-day vs. 1/2
day environment is really a red herring for most kids. However, the
social issue is real. I'd put a child into whichever program has more
social time, since that's what makes kids want to go to school. And if
one program pays more attention to social/emotional development, go for
it. That's what kindergarten used to be about, rather than academics,
and I'm more and more convinced that social and emotional skills are
what really NEED to be taught at that age. The academics just come
along for the ride.

My kids are now in 5th and 7th grades, both thriving in school despite
being at the very young end of their respective classes.

Your own mileage may vary, of course :-)
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

(Beth Kevles) wrote:


This has been an interesting thread.

Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.

I had an early November birthday in 1937, and at that time it was
about the last date possible - if my mom had not been induced a week
early, I would have had to wait a year. So I started when I was 4
years and 10 months and turned five in November of that year which was
1942. I graduated in 1955 at age 17. It was a half day
kindergarten, and my mom fought to have me in the morning session
because I still took a nap in the afternoon.

My sister was born in early June and started in 1945 when she was 5
years and 3 months, and should have graduated in 1958 about when she
was having her 18th birthday. But since I had taught her to read,
they skipped her over 1st grade, so she graduated only 2 years after
me when she was having her 17th bday.

I didn't consider keeping my oldest two girls (born in August and
September respectively) out of kindergarten, and both of them started
in the year right after they turned 5 and graduated HS at 17.5. There
was no public kindergarten at the time where we were living, and so
they both started half day at a parochial school which was only in the
morning. Which was good for my oldest one because she was still
taking an afternoon nap like I had at her age.

We moved to a suburb of Philadelphia while DD#2 was in kindergarten
and the only slot they had was afternoon, which was OK for her because
she was not a napper.

DD#3 was born in May and she started - as my sister did - when she was
5+ She did morning kindergarten which was good because she was also a
napping type child. She graduated just after she turned 18

DS born in January, and for the first time I considered keeping a
child back. He could have started when he was 4+ as I did, but I
red-shirted him so he didn't start kindy until he was 5 years and 8
months, and he turned 18 in the middle of his senior year.


My older boy was the type who tires easily (later discovered a chronic
infection, had the adenoids out, and suddenly had a very energetic child
on my hands). He was only offered 1/2 day kindergarten, but we put him
in daycare for the other 1/2 day for social reasons. He LOVED it. The
morning was strictly academic, the afternoon more play-based, but with
academic content and time to do their homework. (Yup, homework in
kindergarten. What a waste of time ...) He never napped in daycare,
but took advantage of the quiet time after lunch for the first couple of
months.

By the time my younger child entered kindergarten full-day was the only
option. He was a very high-energy youngster. With full-day there was
more social time built in, so instead of being at the desk all the time
there was a lot of time for moving around, for recess, talking over
lunch, and all that good stuff. He loved every second of it.

I think that most kids can adapt to whatever environment they're put
in. I suspect that the child's ability to "handle" a full-day vs. 1/2
day environment is really a red herring for most kids. However, the
social issue is real. I'd put a child into whichever program has more
social time, since that's what makes kids want to go to school. And if
one program pays more attention to social/emotional development, go for
it. That's what kindergarten used to be about, rather than academics,
and I'm more and more convinced that social and emotional skills are
what really NEED to be taught at that age. The academics just come
along for the ride.

I had my children in various kinds of pre-school before they went to
kindergarten, mostly because we often lived where there were no
playmates. This was particularly true for the two younger ones,
although of course they also had their older siblings.

The only one of them where we lived that she could go and play on our
street with someone of her age when she was 4 to 6 years of age was
DD#2. When DD#1 was that age, we lived on a dead end street that had
an Army post at the end of it. When DD#3 was that age, we lived on a
state highway, but out in the woods - only one house visible to us in
any direction. And in DS's case, we lived on a dead end street with 4
other houses that ended in the water opposite a Catholic HS.

My kids are now in 5th and 7th grades, both thriving in school despite
being at the very young end of their respective classes.

Your own mileage may vary, of course :-)
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Rosalie B. wrote:
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

This has been an interesting thread.

Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.

I had an early November birthday in 1937, and at that time it was
about the last date possible - if my mom had not been induced a week
early, I would have had to wait a year.

Just what were you induced with? Now, they use oxytocin (pitocin) which
is a hormone that makes the uterus contract.

It just surprises me that they were able to induce back then. That was
like before WWII.

Just curious. I don't really expect you to know. I mean, you weren't
even born yet. ;-)

Jeff

Jeff wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

This has been an interesting thread.

Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.

I had an early November birthday in 1937, and at that time it was
about the last date possible - if my mom had not been induced a week
early, I would have had to wait a year.

Just what were you induced with? Now, they use oxytocin (pitocin) which
is a hormone that makes the uterus contract.

It just surprises me that they were able to induce back then. That was
like before WWII.

LOL

Just curious. I don't really expect you to know. I mean, you weren't
even born yet. ;-)

Jeff

Right. I don't know what they used then. My mom fell in the driveway
(she said she turned her ankle and didn't faint but they didn't
believe her and stuck her in the hospital because they thought she had
pre-eclampsia).

I do have a baby book where it is probably written down, but it isn't
where I usually put it in the bookcase. I also have her diary of the
time where she wrote that she didn't know how 'mama' (her grandmother
who had 9 children) stood it (i.e. the pain at birth). When the nurse
asked her what she was going to call me, she answered "You can call
her cat-face for all I care".

Rosalie B. wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

This has been an interesting thread.

Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.
I had an early November birthday in 1937, and at that time it was
about the last date possible - if my mom had not been induced a week
early, I would have had to wait a year.
Just what were you induced with? Now, they use oxytocin (pitocin) which
is a hormone that makes the uterus contract.

It just surprises me that they were able to induce back then. That was
like before WWII.

LOL
Just curious. I don't really expect you to know. I mean, you weren't
even born yet. ;-)

Jeff

Right. I don't know what they used then. My mom fell in the driveway
(she said she turned her ankle and didn't faint but they didn't
believe her and stuck her in the hospital because they thought she had
pre-eclampsia).

I do have a baby book where it is probably written down, but it isn't
where I usually put it in the bookcase. I also have her diary of the
time where she wrote that she didn't know how 'mama' (her grandmother
who had 9 children) stood it (i.e. the pain at birth). When the nurse
asked her what she was going to call me, she answered "You can call
her cat-face for all I care".

Gee, I popped out of my mom very fast. And, my father went to the bar
afterwards. He had several Manhattans, but I suspect after the first,
there a lot of added water.

He hasn't stopped drinking since.

Jeff

On Feb 10, 10:15�am, Jeff wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote:
(Beth Kevles) wrote:

This has been an interesting thread. �

Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). �Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.

I had an early November birthday in 1937, and at that time it was
about the last date possible - if my mom had not been induced a week
early, I would have had to wait a year.

Just what were you induced with? Now, they use oxytocin (pitocin) which
is a hormone that makes the uterus contract.

It just surprises me that they were able to induce back then. That was
like before WWII.

Just curious. I don't really expect you to know. I mean, you weren't
even born yet. ;-)

Jeff

"Oxytocin was the first of the reproductive hormones to be isolated
from its organ of storage. In 1906 Sir Henry Dale mentioned that an
extract of ox pituitary gland caused contraction of the feline uterus.
An additional property of the posterior lobe, increased milk flow in
lactating goats, was reported a few years later. By the end of the
1920s glandular preparations of oxytocin (pitocin) had reached the
marketplace for induction of labor."

http://uwyo.edu/wjm/repro/classica.htm


There are also various mechanical ways of inducing labor -- I remember
one method (which depends on the cervix already being somewhat
dilated) involves inserting a balloon into the cervix and slowly
filling it with saline or something. I forget what it's called.

Aren't you glad you asked? :-)

--Helen

wrote:
On Feb 10, 10:15�am, Jeff wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote:
(Beth Kevles) wrote:
This has been an interesting thread. �
Both of my boys have late-summer birthdays (August and September). �Both
started kindergarten the fall they turned 5, since it was clearly time
for them to have more academic instruction than they got in nursery
school.
I had an early November birthday in 1937, and at that time it was
about the last date possible - if my mom had not been induced a week
early, I would have had to wait a year.
Just what were you induced with? Now, they use oxytocin (pitocin) which
is a hormone that makes the uterus contract.

It just surprises me that they were able to induce back then. That was
like before WWII.

Just curious. I don't really expect you to know. I mean, you weren't
even born yet. ;-)

Jeff

"Oxytocin was the first of the reproductive hormones to be isolated
from its organ of storage. In 1906 Sir Henry Dale mentioned that an
extract of ox pituitary gland caused contraction of the feline uterus.
An additional property of the posterior lobe, increased milk flow in
lactating goats, was reported a few years later. By the end of the
1920s glandular preparations of oxytocin (pitocin) had reached the
marketplace for induction of labor."

http://uwyo.edu/wjm/repro/classica.htm


There are also various mechanical ways of inducing labor -- I remember
one method (which depends on the cervix already being somewhat
dilated) involves inserting a balloon into the cervix and slowly
filling it with saline or something. I forget what it's called.

Aren't you glad you asked? :-)

--Helen

Yeah, I am. Quite interesting. never knew why it was called oxytocin or
pitocin (because it came from the pituitary). Now I know.

Thanks.

Jeff