Preparing sibling for birth process?

On Apr 21, 6:53�am, NL wrote:


Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.

I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single
mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you
meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one
who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's
just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples.

--Helen

On Apr 20, 3:45*pm, agsf_57 wrote:

It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend
their days watching Oprah and go shopping.

You are trolling. There do exist lazy women and lazy men, but that is
an insulting generalization.

In article , NL says...

Jamie Clark schrieb:
"NL" wrote in message
...
agsf_57 schrieb:
On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote:
snip
And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother
in
America huh.

Banty
Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's
you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their
life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary
toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet.
You go girl!

Regards...

Have you ever heard the term widow?

Not agreeing with the troll, but technically speaking, you are not an unwed
single mother. You're a widow.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.
It's just that somehow in most peoples minds single mothers are the root
of all evil and we must be... weeded out. And also, something must be
really wrong with us because we didn't manage to hang on to the father
of our child(ren). And we're really the ones to blame for the children
not growing up in a happy family. Well, I left because I was beaten,
kicked and verbally abused. I don't think that's a healthy
relationship/family to grow up in. I think being a single parent family
is much more healthy than a family where abuse happens regularly. But of
course I'm cheating my child out of a wonderful relationship with his
other parent... sure.

Or, that *most* by far, people do not demonize single mothers, any more than
they demonize divorced people anymore, being as just about everyone knows people
who are single mothers by many various paths (which include things, like -
adoption as a single person) amongst their sisters, daughters, coworkers,
neighbors.

We have politicians pointing to their upbringing by single mothers, by golly. I
think their polsters would have alerted them to this pervasive revulsion against
single moms!



And can we now please stop feeding the troll?

cu
nicole

Yes, please. I blocked him ages ago, so only see the troll feeding posts,
not the original. I wish everyone would.

I did, too. But this just really struck me as something to speak up about..

Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with.
He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on
some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to
contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does
represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with.

Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D

Banty

schrieb:
On Apr 21, 6:53�am, NL wrote:

Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.

I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single
mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you
meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one
who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's
just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples.

I don't see anything wrong with that either, it's just that it's not the
majority of women waking up one day thinking "Hey, raising kids on my
own, that's what I want to do with my life".
Most single parents I know were in relationships that didn't work out.
And I think a relationship that's over should not be continued "for the
sake of the children" because children do not benefit from living in an
environment where the parents resent being together. (not that I think
the fights going on after divorce/split ups are beneficial either, but
that's different story).

cu
nicole

Banty schrieb:

Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with.
He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on
some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to
contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does
represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with.

See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****.

Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D

see above :-P (Sorry, I could so not resist that one...)

cu
nicole

"NL" wrote in message
...
Banty schrieb:

Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree
with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the
ballpark on
some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good
ideas to
contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and
does
represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with.

See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****.

I agree. That's why I consider him a troll -- he's trolling the groups
looking to stir things up. It would be like if I went out and hung around on
Alt.Support.Childfree and talked on an on about my kids, and how everyone
should have kids and those who don't are immature, selfish and
self-centered.

Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D

see above :-P (Sorry, I could so not resist that one...)

cu
nicole


--

Jamie Clark

In article , Jamie Clark says...

"NL" wrote in message
...
Banty schrieb:

Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree
with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the
ballpark on
some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good
ideas to
contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and
does
represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with.

See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****.

I agree. That's why I consider him a troll -- he's trolling the groups
looking to stir things up. It would be like if I went out and hung around on
Alt.Support.Childfree and talked on an on about my kids, and how everyone
should have kids and those who don't are immature, selfish and
self-centered.

I understand your point - it's just that that's a bad example. Just about
everyone aside from the believers in the canon of groupthink aren't welcome
there anymore (lest they hear about being a 'breeder-pleaser'). Thats not who
we are. Thank your local diety.

If he stirs **** (and whatever else he likes to do in the toilet to think single
mothers have been toilet-ized LOL) - whatever. He is actually contributing,
too.

Banty

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:28:16 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote:

To lounge around the house while our wives work
is not something we would cater to. I personally couldn't do it.

This view of what women do when they are at home with young children
is part of the problem.

Anyone at home with young children has a lot to do and mostly not
housework. After the children are in school, btw, it still is not
lounging about that is happening.

Besides that it sounds like you are very limited in your own creative
activities. Work doesn't have to be compensated to be meaningful.
I might be artistic enough to paint or sculpt. I could be inventing
machines even if they never get marketed.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote:

On Apr 19, 7:00 pm, toto wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote:

That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers
than to sit down with the child and help her grow.

For most of human history, children were raised by the *tribe* rather
than by their individual mothers alone. Human families were extended
families and grandmothers, grandfathers, aunts, uncles and other
relatives helped to rear the children. It is really only in recent
times in the West that the nuclear family has become the *ideal.*

In the Kibbutzim in Isreal, communal child rearing is not seen as
inimical to strong family ties.

Underlying these child rearing practices is a different view of
children and childhood. In tribal and communal societies, the child
is views as a full participant in the life of the community from
birth.

--
Dorothy

That's nice and all, but you have to acknowledge that the two
societies are different. In these tribes, the entire tribes were
working together to survive and prosper. Each member had a role to
play in order to better the tribe. Also, I am sure that even in those
tribes, the mother of the child would prefer to be with their
offspring than to relinquish the parental duties and joys onto other
tribal members.

Regards...

You have obviously never asked a tribal woman what they might or might
not prefer. You think that Western civilization's view of parenting
is the only view and that others *must* prefer this emotionally when
it is simply not true.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

In article , toto says...

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote:

On Apr 19, 7:00 pm, toto wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote:

That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers
than to sit down with the child and help her grow.

For most of human history, children were raised by the *tribe* rather
than by their individual mothers alone. Human families were extended
families and grandmothers, grandfathers, aunts, uncles and other
relatives helped to rear the children. It is really only in recent
times in the West that the nuclear family has become the *ideal.*

In the Kibbutzim in Isreal, communal child rearing is not seen as
inimical to strong family ties.

Underlying these child rearing practices is a different view of
children and childhood. In tribal and communal societies, the child
is views as a full participant in the life of the community from
birth.

--
Dorothy

That's nice and all, but you have to acknowledge that the two
societies are different. In these tribes, the entire tribes were
working together to survive and prosper. Each member had a role to
play in order to better the tribe. Also, I am sure that even in those
tribes, the mother of the child would prefer to be with their
offspring than to relinquish the parental duties and joys onto other
tribal members.

Regards...

You have obviously never asked a tribal woman what they might or might
not prefer. You think that Western civilization's view of parenting
is the only view and that others *must* prefer this emotionally when
it is simply not true.



For one thing - looking at this from what he thinks women should want POV, said
tribal woman gets to play with the babies after hers are older.

I don't know where folks get these ideas. It's the USian isolated nuclear
family thing. And the over-worn unthought cliche's about it. Like this thing
about childcare providers being strangers.

Banty