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#141
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
"NL" wrote in message ... Banty schrieb: snip I've summed it up as - the hardest thing about being a single parent is that it's all up to oneself. The aspect of the situation that makes it doable is - - that it's all up to oneself. YES! That's exactly it. I have a coworker with a wife with a new baby, and she's calling him to come home 'early' (in our industry, read "actually leaving for home at 5:00 pm") to help her out. He's stressing over all the work-life tradoffs that causes and her idea of that vs. his idea of that. I had to make tradeoffs to be sure, but I didn't have the hassles, negotiation, and resentments over which ones were made. Yep. My best (female) friend complains about her husband a lot. He's working longer and longer hours, he's not really participating in the family, he does a lot of stupid stuff (like putting ink stampings on his freshly bathed kids... didn't go down well as the next day was a big family gathering and the girls were _covered_ in AIRMAIL stampings...), I honestly wouldn't have a problem with DH if he did this. He might have a problem with me If I did it, but I don't because I know he'd have a problem with it. What I do think of as harder is negotiations with teachers/offices/etc. when they see me as a single mum of two you can see them mentally putting me into the "totally overwhelmed, unable to deal" drawer. So my son acting out at school is because I'm the worst parent on the planet and not because of his sensory/speech problems or because his class is too large (28 kids, 18 of which are boys, please imaging the noise level and now think about how that's working for a kid who's unable to filter out background noise). When I turn up with my best (male) friend they talk to me differently, and I can get my points across differently than I can when I go alone. But I'm not sure if that's because a) he's male and the teachers are women (one main teacher one who's nearly a teacher*) b) because he's a potential witness to unfairness or c) because then it's 2 "vs." 2. The dynamics are always different for men vs. women, sometimes in a very subtle way. You can see the difference when a room full of women are chatting about and a man enters. I would have to say it's because he's male (the teachers being women or male wouldn't change the fact that the dynamics would be different for a man vs. woman) AND a witness AND 2 vs. 1. |
#142
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 23, 4:00Â*pm, "
wrote: On Apr 23, 4:28�am, Chookie wrote: Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. �My Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother. � Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. �Grandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always say I had three loving parents. �But even with that support, being a single parent was terribly hard on my Mum. �To walk into such a difficult life *voluntarily* boggles my mind. But leaving a marriage, or being widowed, are in themselves terribly stressful situations, leaving one with lots of emotional baggage. Do you really think the "emotional baggage" of the wife and children are the same when the father (a) dies in an accident (b) *chooses* to abandon his family Obviously, in situation (b), there can be deep and justified feelings of betrayal. Choosing to have a child as a single mother does *not* involve any of those stresses. Not there can't be plenty of others, of course. But if *all* one had to worry about were the logistics, and if everything looked reasonably well aligned (finances, health, etc.) before one made the leap, it seems to me that it wouldn't necessarily be a terribly tough life. I would agree with you that you'd be increasing the *risk* of facing a tough life, but arguably taking on far less risk than many people who start babies with dicey partners and in terrible financial situations. Then don't do either! A woman should not have a child on her own *or* with a "dicey" partner. Men should not father children with women they are not committed to. Once upon a time, the vast majority of Americans followed these simple rules. Here are some statistics from "The Underclass Revisited", by Charles Murray http://www.aei.org/publications/pubI...pub_detail.asp . 'The black ratio. At the first checkpoint in the Eisenhower years, 20 percent of black children were born out of wedlock.[15] Or to put it in a more positive way, 80 percent of black children were born to married parents. When the Great Society began at our second checkpoint, 1964, the deterioration was still mild, with the percentage growing to 25 percent. Then the roof fell in on the black family. By the third checkpoint in 1982, illegitimacy had become the norm, with 58 percent of all black children born out of wedlock. By the fourth checkpoint, 1997, the black illegitimacy ratio in 1997 was 69 percent, down from its high of 70 percent in 1994. To my knowledge, to have more than two-thirds of a new generation of children born to unmarried women is unprecedented for any large subpopulation of any culture, ancient or modern. The white ratio. The white illegitimacy ratio was vanishingly small when Eisenhower was in office--less than 2 percent in 1954. It almost doubled between then and the second checkpoint in 1964, passing 3 percent, but the large proportional growth simply reflected the small baseline. But the increases added up, and by the time the underclass was discovered at our third checkpoint in 1982, 12 percent of white children were born to unmarried mothers. Between 1982 and the final checkpoint in 1997, the increase in white illegitimacy got serious, more than doubling again. This time, the large proportional increase could not be passed off as a function of a small baseline. As of 1997, 26 percent of white children were born to unmarried women, a figure comparable to the black ratio in the mid 1960s. To some extent this reflects a growing Latino population, mostly white, that has a higher illegitimacy ratio than non-Latino whites. But even if we restrict the calculation to non-Latino whites, 22 percent of all white births in 1997 were to unmarried women.' |
#143
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article ,
Beliavsky says... On Apr 23, 4:00=C2=A0pm, " wrote: On Apr 23, 4:28=EF=BF=BDam, Chookie wro= te: Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. = =EF=BF=BDMy Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother.= =EF=BF=BD Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. =EF=BF=BDGrandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always = say I had three loving parents. =EF=BF=BDBut even with that support, being a singl= e parent was terribly hard on my Mum. =EF=BF=BDTo walk into such a difficult life *vo= luntarily* boggles my mind. But leaving a marriage, or being widowed, are in themselves terribly stressful situations, leaving one with lots of emotional baggage. Do you really think the "emotional baggage" of the wife and children are the same when the father (a) dies in an accident (b) *chooses* to abandon his family Obviously, in situation (b), there can be deep and justified feelings of betrayal. They're not the same, but you seem to greatly undercount grief. Choosing to have a child as a single mother does *not* involve any of those stresses. Not there can't be plenty of others, of course. But if *all* one had to worry about were the logistics, and if everything looked reasonably well aligned (finances, health, etc.) before one made the leap, it seems to me that it wouldn't necessarily be a terribly tough life. I would agree with you that you'd be increasing the *risk* of facing a tough life, but arguably taking on far less risk than many people who start babies with dicey partners and in terrible financial situations. Then don't do either! A woman should not have a child on her own *or* with a "dicey" partner. Men should not father children with women they are not committed to. What an ideal. Once upon a time, ...the appropriate fairy tale opening to this paragraph... the vast majority of Americans followed these simple rules. Here are some statistics from "The Underclass Revisited", by Charles Murray http://www.aei.org/publications/pub= ID.14891/pub_detail.asp Oh gosh Charles Murray - the champion of research driven by anticipated conclusion. Lets just say he's a controversial choice of source. What the practices were in the past don't necessarily have bearing on what is right or what is workable. There were great costs to those statistics - shotgun weddings, babies purported to be born to the mothers of teenaged daughters, babies left to die unrecorded (all of which are in those statistics). They also dont account for the very common practice (still recognized in many states as "common law marriages") of forming families without formal marriage being recognized as defacto. The great sigma lead to blind adoptions. Banty |
#144
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
Banty wrote:
SNIP I think you're right both about over-idealization of marriage and that hassles, negotiations (at least, the resentments should be minimized) are normal parts of people living together. When I point to the energy and attention a marriage needs that I don't have to deal with, I don't mean to denigrate marriage. There are advantages with marriage that go with that. SNIP Banty Just snuck in... These sound like my words a few years ago. It took ages for me to understand that it wasn't marraige that I had found hard....it was him... he was hard.. |
#145
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
toypup wrote:
" wrote in message ... But leaving a marriage, or being widowed, are in themselves terribly stressful situations, leaving one with lots of emotional baggage. Choosing to have a child as a single mother does *not* involve any of those stresses. Not there can't be plenty of others, of course. But if *all* one had to worry about were the logistics, and if everything looked reasonably well aligned (finances, health, etc.) before one made the leap, it seems to me that it wouldn't necessarily be a terribly tough life. I would agree with you that you'd be increasing the *risk* of facing a tough life, but arguably taking on far less risk than many people who start babies with dicey partners and in terrible financial situations. I would agree with you, if you are comparing two less ideal situations (poor parents vs. good single parent). I would venture that two good parents is preferable, if it can be done, which is why it's important to try and choose a good partner. Sometimes, it's impossible to know someone is a poor partner, but other times, I really wonder what they were thinking. Rose cloloured glasses numb the grey matter I think. |
#146
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
Banty wrote:
In article , Beliavsky says... On Apr 23, 4:00=C2=A0pm, " wrote: On Apr 23, 4:28=EF=BF=BDam, Chookie wro= te: Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. = =EF=BF=BDMy Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother.= =EF=BF=BD Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. =EF=BF=BDGrandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always = say I had three loving parents. =EF=BF=BDBut even with that support, being a singl= e parent was terribly hard on my Mum. =EF=BF=BDTo walk into such a difficult life *vo= luntarily* boggles my mind. But leaving a marriage, or being widowed, are in themselves terribly stressful situations, leaving one with lots of emotional baggage. Do you really think the "emotional baggage" of the wife and children are the same when the father (a) dies in an accident (b) *chooses* to abandon his family Obviously, in situation (b), there can be deep and justified feelings of betrayal. They're not the same, but you seem to greatly undercount grief. Choosing to have a child as a single mother does *not* involve any of those stresses. Not there can't be plenty of others, of course. But if *all* one had to worry about were the logistics, and if everything looked reasonably well aligned (finances, health, etc.) before one made the leap, it seems to me that it wouldn't necessarily be a terribly tough life. I would agree with you that you'd be increasing the *risk* of facing a tough life, but arguably taking on far less risk than many people who start babies with dicey partners and in terrible financial situations. Then don't do either! A woman should not have a child on her own *or* with a "dicey" partner. Men should not father children with women they are not committed to. What an ideal. It is and its not hard to do. Once upon a time, ..the appropriate fairy tale opening to this paragraph... the vast majority of Americans followed these simple rules. Here are some statistics from "The Underclass Revisited", by Charles Murray http://www.aei.org/publications/pub= ID.14891/pub_detail.asp Oh gosh Charles Murray - the champion of research driven by anticipated conclusion. Lets just say he's a controversial choice of source. What the practices were in the past don't necessarily have bearing on what is right or what is workable. There were great costs to those statistics - shotgun weddings, babies purported to be born to the mothers of teenaged daughters, babies left to die unrecorded (all of which are in those statistics). They also dont account for the very common practice (still recognized in many states as "common law marriages") of forming families without formal marriage being recognized as defacto. The great sigma lead to blind adoptions. Banty |
#147
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 23, 3:53 pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Beliavsky says... On Apr 23, 9:39=A0am, Banty wrote: In article .= com, Wow, Chookie and I agree on something . One caveat, though. Although I think married couples should be given preference over unmarried couples and single people in adoption, if there are not enough such couples to adopt the children available, single people should be considered. A single woman who has the resources, financial and otherwise, to provide a good home for a child who would otherwise be in an institution or in foster care should be applauded for doing so, IMO. How odd. Wouldn't the children with more needs, need two legally committed adults in their household to deal with the difficulties, and more resources than those who don't? Not necessarily. Sure, having two committed and loving parents is better than having one. However, having one is way, way, *way* better than having none, and what these children actually need above all is a relationship with one loving, committed parent. If a two-parent family is available, great. But if there isn't, and if there is a single person happy to adopt the child and able to cope, then the child should go to that person rather than linger on in an institution or impermanent foster care setting in the hope that the Perfect Family (tm) *might* come along at some indeterminate time in the future. What a child in that situation needs is stability and a proper attachment *now*, not a two-parent ideal sometime/never. Yes, but they are probably considered less desirable adoptees by most people, and standards may need to be relaxed a little to get them adopted, but not to the extent that the children would be better off in an orphanage. So this is not about the children, but rather about prospective parents, and only married ones. Huh? Not following that at all. All the best, Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com |
#148
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
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#149
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 24, 6:00Â*am, Beliavsky wrote:
On Apr 23, 4:00Â*pm, " wrote: On Apr 23, 4:28�am, Chookie wrote: Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. �My Mum left Dad when we were small and took us to live with her widowed mother. � Grandma dyed her hair and went to work until Mum was fit enough to work herself. �Grandma was the SAHP for the next X years -- I always say I had three loving parents. �But even with that support, being a single parent was terribly hard on my Mum. �To walk into such a difficult life *voluntarily* boggles my mind. But leaving a marriage, or being widowed, are in themselves terribly stressful situations, leaving one with lots of emotional baggage. Do you really think the "emotional baggage" of the wife and children are the same when the father (a) dies in an accident (b) *chooses* to abandon his family Obviously, in situation (b), there can be deep and justified feelings of betrayal. *scratching head* Who the heck said they were the same? I said they were both terribly stressful situations. You wanna argue that being widowed ISN'T? --Helen |
#150
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OT sleep deprived...(was: Preparing sibling for birth process?)
Areba schrieb:
snip Just snuck in... These sound like my words a few years ago. It took ages for me to understand that it wasn't marraige that I had found hard....it was him... he was hard.. Seriously, the mind boggles at all that can be interpreted into this sentence. Especially this sleep deprived mind right here ;-) cu nicole |
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