kindergarten concerns

Our son will be 5 in May, which means in this state (WA), he starts
kindergarten in September and as they use an August 31st cut off, he's
one of the younger children in the year.

State provision is for part time kindergarten, but the local school
district strongly pushes full time kindergarten, unlike neighbouring
ones where there is a lottery for full time places. There is a charge,
but it's very little more than we're paying for preschool anyway, so
it's nothing more than a minor consideration when it comes to decision
making.

All the information we've seen about kindergarten readiness would
indicate he's ready across all the different aspects, however, our local
school is BIG, 600 students. He would be able to ride the bus, we're
just about the last stop on one of the routes, so it's very convenient,
however my anxieties about him riding the bus are too long to list.
Having driven past the school at drop off and pick up time, I don't
really see not riding the bus as an option.

The start time is 8am, which means half day kindergarten finishes at
10.40, which would be very tieing, I would have to stop going to women's
bible study and it would make scheduling other things tricky too. Plus,
he's turned out to be a slow starter in the mornings, he's the kind of
child that takes an hour or so after waking up to be ready for
breakfast. Hence, half day kindergarten at public school isn't looking a
great option.

The school can't say for sure what the classes will be, they say they
started the year with 3 classes full day and all the half day children
in one class, but now have 2 or 3 half day children in each class, so
all the core stuff is squeezed into the morning.

My other concern is his general constitution and energy levels, he's not
a sickly child, who gets ill all the time, but he does seem more fragile
than most and fatigues fairly easily.

Our other option is to have him continue into the kindergarten class at
preschool, it's a 9-11.30 program and it's a small class with one
teacher, I have no doubt at all that it would be fantastic for the
academics, but I'm a little concerned that transitioning to first grade
would be tricky, though I chatted to the teacher on Friday and she says
that she's never had a child find this a problem - I rather suspect the
additional year in age helps. He can stay for lunch up to 3 days a week,
which would give him practice at the longer day.

A big part of me is saying suck it up, stick him in full day
kindergarten, put him on the bus and stop being an over anxious parent.
But an equally big part of me is saying, I'm the one that knows him best
and I have genuine concerns, the kindergarten class at preschool will be
fine (if not better) academically and we have a good relationship with
the teacher, we know if there are any problems they'll be communicated
to us.

I think that, unfortunately, some of the concerns I have may well still
apply in first grade, I'm not sure why the school has grown so big,
other schools in the school district aren't that size even without the
gifted program, and it's the host school for that, making it even
bigger, it's bigger than the smallest high school in the district! It's
a very transient population, there will be kids coming and going all the
time. On the other hand overall, it appears to be a good school
district, all the high schools appeared in the national top 100 list
last year in whichever magazine it was that did it.

So what does everyone else do? Go with the flow and deal with problems
if they appear, or head them off and make alternative arrangements?

Cheers
Anne

Anne Rogers wrote:

A big part of me is saying suck it up, stick him in full day
kindergarten, put him on the bus and stop being an over anxious parent.
But an equally big part of me is saying, I'm the one that knows him best
and I have genuine concerns, the kindergarten class at preschool will be
fine (if not better) academically and we have a good relationship with
the teacher, we know if there are any problems they'll be communicated
to us.

Will the kindergarten class at the preschool fill up? Could
you put him in full day public kindergarten and switch him to the
kindergarten at the preschool if he didn't do well?

I think that, unfortunately, some of the concerns I have may well still
apply in first grade, I'm not sure why the school has grown so big,
other schools in the school district aren't that size even without the
gifted program, and it's the host school for that, making it even
bigger, it's bigger than the smallest high school in the district! It's
a very transient population, there will be kids coming and going all the
time. On the other hand overall, it appears to be a good school
district, all the high schools appeared in the national top 100 list
last year in whichever magazine it was that did it.

Personally, none of that would make me sweat. My kids'
elementary school is bigger than yours, and DS2 started with
half day kindy (8:30-noon, I think) right after an August 14th
birthday, and DD will start full day kindy (8:30-3:20) after
a July 4th birthday next year. We're the last stop on the
bus route, and my kids have all ridden the bus to school starting
from kindy.

So, the only thing that would give me pause would be
the energy level issue, which I think is very legitimate to
consider. Have you asked what the kids do in the afternoon?
It seems like most full day kindy programs have some type of
rest period in the afternoon, and a few even have naptime.
I'd get good information on what they'll be doing in the afternoon
before making a decision. If they're not going full-out the
whole time, it may be just fine for him.

I would have a bias toward getting him started at the
school if your intention is to have him there for first grade.
In kindergarten, all the kids will be new to the school and new
to dealing with all the mechanics of getting through the day in
that school. The teachers will be actively teaching them all
these things, and will be patient with those who take some time
to adjust.

If you wait to send him at first grade, most of the kids
in his class will already be well settled in to the school. There
will be less explicit teaching of how to get around. Although there
shouldn't be, there could be less patience for those who struggle
to adapt. At the very least, those kids will stand out more against
a background of kids who are already comfortable in the school.

I wouldn't say that it's a terrible thing to keep him
in the preschool kindergarten class and send him to the public
school in 1st grade, but I do think there are enough advantages
to starting him in kindy that I'd try to give him that opportunity
unless I thought the odds were against him. Can you get a meeting
with a kindergarten teacher or administrator (perhaps both?) to
discuss what happens in the afternoon, how they deal with kids who
get tired in the second half of the day, what their experiences are
with kids in that situation, and what the options are if things
aren't working out well.

I will admit to a bias to give kids the opportunity
to rise to the occasion. I think one should be ready with
Plan B in case it's too much, and I wouldn't throw them into
the soup if I really *knew* it was too much, but I try to
avoid prejudging them when possible.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:53:51 -0800, Anne Rogers wrote:

Our son will be 5 in May, which means in this state (WA), he starts
kindergarten in September and as they use an August 31st cut off, he's
one of the younger children in the year.

State provision is for part time kindergarten, but the local school
district strongly pushes full time kindergarten, unlike neighbouring
ones where there is a lottery for full time places. There is a charge,
but it's very little more than we're paying for preschool anyway, so
it's nothing more than a minor consideration when it comes to decision
making.

All the information we've seen about kindergarten readiness would
indicate he's ready across all the different aspects, however, our local
school is BIG, 600 students. He would be able to ride the bus, we're
just about the last stop on one of the routes, so it's very convenient,
however my anxieties about him riding the bus are too long to list.
Having driven past the school at drop off and pick up time, I don't
really see not riding the bus as an option.

I really don't think your school is all that big. Comparted to what he's
been to, yea, but not really all that big. DS's school has 1079 students.
His kindergarten had 20 students per class, two classes per track, 4 tracks
= 160 students for kindergarten alone. Three tracks are on at one time, so
we have 120 kindergarteners normally around at once. However, keep in mind
that they usually keep the kindergartenders separate from the other
classes, so it feels much smaller.

I was bussed as a kindergartener from a school that had tons of busses. It
took an hour to get home. No problem form a kid's POV. I simply slept
until it was time to get off. Somehow, I always woke up in time. Your
child will probably like it. As a parent, bussing would not concern me.

From talking to other parents and teachers, it seems that full day
kindergarten just means they have more time to play the second half of the
day. I'd choose that option for the social reasons. DS didn't have much
time to socialize in his kindergarten. It wasl so full of work and recess
didn't last very long.

I would not choose to start DS in first grade. Not the end of the world,
but the social circles have been made. The new kids have to work harder to
fit in and find friends. DD would probably not have a problem with it, but
it would be difficult for DS.

Hi --

If academics are pushed into the morning then afternoon will be when all
the fun and socializing happen, so if that's the case, he should
definitely be there full-day. If academics are throughout the day then
play and socializing will be as well, and he should be there full day...

My older son was also one of those kids who need plenty of rest. He
went from a short nursery school day to full day kindy and LOVED it.
And he didn't turn five until September of kindy.

I'd suggest going for the full-day kindy. You might ask if they have a
rest or quiet period after lunch for the first part of the school year,
but even without that, most kids don't need the rest by the time they're
five. (Really. It surprised me at the time.) Just make sure he gets
to bed on time in the evening

I'm surprised that a May birthday would be at the young end of the
class. You may find that is incorrect, and that he'll be more towards
the center than you think.

Oh, my kids both loved being on the schoolbus. I drove my older child
the first week of school, but put him on the bus after that. My younger
one was on the bus from day one.

I hope these thoughts help,
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Check both kinder options carefully. Here, full-day kindergarten is usually
in place in schools where many of the children struggle, and as a result,
full-day kids tend to get really heavy academics, frequent testing, and
little time to play. Nap time just plain doesn't exist-or, at best, it's a
short time watching an educational video or having a book read aloud after
lunch.

Half-day programs tend to be more developmental (and are mostly through
private schools) and may well offer more time for socialization.

What is pretty common here is to put your summer birthday child into a 1/2
day program at age 5, then to look seriously and decide if they should enter
Kinder or 1st full-day the following year. A lot of parents take the "one
year at private kindergarten, 1/2 day, and one year at public kindergarten,
full-day" option, unless the child is obviously ready for 1st.

I go with the flow and deal with problems if there are any to deal with.
Personally, I think a full day for kindergarteners is a bit much. They are
extremely tired at a half day and I could easily see how a full day would
really wear them out. As far as how many kids go to the school, it's not
that big of a number to me. Our elementary has around 400 kids, but the
lower elementary kids are in another part of the building than the older
kids. My oldest rode the bus when she was in preschool and kindergarten and
I was very fearful of it, but she didn't have any problems what so ever.
They took the little ones off the bus and escorted them to class. It's not
like they just let the little ones figure it out. If your son is fragile,
then he will probably get a lot of illnesses in the beginning, but soon he
will build up his immunities and he will be stronger for it. He probably
needs to toughen up a little bit and school will be the spot for it. First
time moms and sending their little ones to school is hard, but it is harder
for the moms than it is for the kids. Just don't put your anxieties off on
him.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..

Our son will be 5 in May, which means in this state (WA), he starts
kindergarten in September and as they use an August 31st cut off, he's one
of the younger children in the year.

State provision is for part time kindergarten, but the local school
district strongly pushes full time kindergarten, unlike neighbouring ones
where there is a lottery for full time places. There is a charge, but it's
very little more than we're paying for preschool anyway, so it's nothing
more than a minor consideration when it comes to decision making.

All the information we've seen about kindergarten readiness would indicate
he's ready across all the different aspects, however, our local school is
BIG, 600 students. He would be able to ride the bus, we're just about the
last stop on one of the routes, so it's very convenient, however my
anxieties about him riding the bus are too long to list. Having driven
past the school at drop off and pick up time, I don't really see not
riding the bus as an option.

The start time is 8am, which means half day kindergarten finishes at
10.40, which would be very tieing, I would have to stop going to women's
bible study and it would make scheduling other things tricky too. Plus,
he's turned out to be a slow starter in the mornings, he's the kind of
child that takes an hour or so after waking up to be ready for breakfast.
Hence, half day kindergarten at public school isn't looking a great
option.

The school can't say for sure what the classes will be, they say they
started the year with 3 classes full day and all the half day children in
one class, but now have 2 or 3 half day children in each class, so all the
core stuff is squeezed into the morning.

My other concern is his general constitution and energy levels, he's not a
sickly child, who gets ill all the time, but he does seem more fragile
than most and fatigues fairly easily.

Our other option is to have him continue into the kindergarten class at
preschool, it's a 9-11.30 program and it's a small class with one teacher,
I have no doubt at all that it would be fantastic for the academics, but
I'm a little concerned that transitioning to first grade would be tricky,
though I chatted to the teacher on Friday and she says that she's never
had a child find this a problem - I rather suspect the additional year in
age helps. He can stay for lunch up to 3 days a week, which would give him
practice at the longer day.

A big part of me is saying suck it up, stick him in full day kindergarten,
put him on the bus and stop being an over anxious parent. But an equally
big part of me is saying, I'm the one that knows him best and I have
genuine concerns, the kindergarten class at preschool will be fine (if not
better) academically and we have a good relationship with the teacher, we
know if there are any problems they'll be communicated to us.

I think that, unfortunately, some of the concerns I have may well still
apply in first grade, I'm not sure why the school has grown so big, other
schools in the school district aren't that size even without the gifted
program, and it's the host school for that, making it even bigger, it's
bigger than the smallest high school in the district! It's a very
transient population, there will be kids coming and going all the time. On
the other hand overall, it appears to be a good school district, all the
high schools appeared in the national top 100 list last year in whichever
magazine it was that did it.

So what does everyone else do? Go with the flow and deal with problems if
they appear, or head them off and make alternative arrangements?

Cheers
Anne

Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi --

If academics are pushed into the morning then afternoon will be when all
the fun and socializing happen, so if that's the case, he should
definitely be there full-day. If academics are throughout the day then
play and socializing will be as well, and he should be there full day...

My older son was also one of those kids who need plenty of rest. He
went from a short nursery school day to full day kindy and LOVED it.
And he didn't turn five until September of kindy.

I'd suggest going for the full-day kindy. You might ask if they have a
rest or quiet period after lunch for the first part of the school year,
but even without that, most kids don't need the rest by the time they're
five. (Really. It surprised me at the time.) Just make sure he gets
to bed on time in the evening


I would try full-day, too, unless there's a really compelling reason not
to. Personally, I would have preferred half-day, but I don't know of
any private or public kindergartens here that offer half-day. As it
turned out, my kindergartner loves full-day and has even asked if he can
stay in the afterschool program sometimes to play with his friends.

I do think it would be ideal for him to attend kindergarten in the same
school where he'll attend first grade. That won't be true for us, but
the school my son will attend next year doesn't have a kindergarten, so
it was unavoidable. The same principle applies, though - he'll be a new
kid at the same time all the 1st graders are new kids.

Clisby

I'm surprised that a May birthday would be at the young end of the
class. You may find that is incorrect, and that he'll be more towards
the center than you think.

Oh, my kids both loved being on the schoolbus. I drove my older child
the first week of school, but put him on the bus after that. My younger
one was on the bus from day one.

I hope these thoughts help,
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Donna Metler wrote:
Check both kinder options carefully. Here, full-day kindergarten is usually
in place in schools where many of the children struggle, and as a result,
full-day kids tend to get really heavy academics, frequent testing, and
little time to play. Nap time just plain doesn't exist-or, at best, it's a
short time watching an educational video or having a book read aloud after
lunch.

I think these sorts of things can vary hugely by region.
Having a high population of at-risk kids is one motivator for
full-day kindergarten. Another one is a lots of dual-career
families (which may mean lots of families where two incomes
are required to stay afloat, or may mean lots of very affluent
professional families with two high-powered careers). Another
one is lots of pro-education families who believe (rightly or
wrongly) that kids have to get going with the academics to be
competitive. Obviously, it could be a combination of a lot of
factors. In our district, full-day kindy was rolled out gradually,
*starting* with schools with a higher proportion of at-risk
kids, but at this point in time, there are only a couple of
schools left that have part-day kindy (and they're mostly
schools that have facilities issues that have to be addressed
in order to provide full-day kindy), so a full-day kindy
program isn't really an indicator of at-risk students anymore.

The bottom line is that you really do have to check
out what the curriculum/schedule/etc. for full day kindergarten
is like in your particular school. The fact that you said already
that the academics will be mostly just in the morning because some
of the kids will leave mid-day suggests *to me* that odds are
likely that the afternoon isn't likely to be hard core, but
you just really won't know until you check it out.
Also, I think the fact that the school offers, but
doesn't require, full day kindy also suggests that the afternoon
part of the day is considered optional and is not likely to
be focused on the core academics.

Take care,
Ericka

On Feb 2, 6:53 pm, Anne Rogers wrote:

snip

On the other hand overall, it appears to be a good school
district, all the high schools appeared in the national top 100 list
last year in whichever magazine it was that did it.

Newsweek makes such a list, but it is silly, because it is based
solely on the fraction of high school students TAKING Advanced
Placement or similar exams, IGNORING how well they do, as discussed in
an essay on the Irascible Professor web site:

http://irascibleprofessor.com/comments-06-25-07.htm
"We take the total number of Advanced Placement, International
Baccalaureate, or Cambridge tests given at a school in May, and divide
by the number of seniors graduating in May or June." That is the only
data used to determine placement on the list. Performance on each
test was not a factor.

Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 2, 6:53 pm, Anne Rogers wrote:

snip

On the other hand overall, it appears to be a good school
district, all the high schools appeared in the national top 100 list
last year in whichever magazine it was that did it.

Newsweek makes such a list, but it is silly, because it is based
solely on the fraction of high school students TAKING Advanced
Placement or similar exams, IGNORING how well they do, as discussed in
an essay on the Irascible Professor web site:

*ALL* of these sorts of rankings are pretty much bogus.
Ranking the schools based on exam performance is equally fatally
flawed, and has the downside that it creates powerful disincentives
for schools to make advanced courses more widely available. Take
any national school ranking system (high school or college) and you'll
find that the measures they use have some serious drawbacks. If
you are careful to examine the criteria they use, they can be of
some use, but they don't come close to evaluating all the
important things one needs to consider when choosing a school.

Best wishes,
Ericka