Texas Schools Felony Fraud numbers of dropouts

Did you see the TV story Oct 17 about the ""model"" schools
in Texas getting high marks through fraudulent reports
of dropouts? And the coverups throughout management?
The guy who exposed it from a few levels down had to
go to the media before it exploded.

They were purposefully omitting names and statistics,
altering statistics, and falsely labeling kids as
having transferred to schools - fabricated LIES.

They discovered it has been endemic, many schools
there have been doing this.

The "best schools in the nation" models are less than
advertized.

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Did you see the TV story Oct 17 about the ""model"" schools
in Texas getting high marks through fraudulent reports
of dropouts? And the coverups throughout management?
The guy who exposed it from a few levels down had to
go to the media before it exploded.

They were purposefully omitting names and statistics,
altering statistics, and falsely labeling kids as
having transferred to schools - fabricated LIES.

They discovered it has been endemic, many schools
there have been doing this.

The "best schools in the nation" models are less than
advertized.

Though many might disagree, I recall another fraud. It's called grading on
a curve. Way back when, when too many kids were failing cuz they couldn't
answer 75% of the test questions correctly. No one stopped to consider that
the teachers weren't teaching. The grade curve made up for teacher
deficiences. I can recall when answering one-half of the test questions
correctly consituted an A. I disputed this with teachers but got
nowhere.Many kids received credit for one-half of the education they
thought they had acheived. The truth came out only when they had to compete
with others and learned, too late, they were so far behind. So much for the
quality of schools and teachers.

bobb

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, bobb wrote:


"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Did you see the TV story Oct 17 about the ""model"" schools
in Texas getting high marks through fraudulent reports
of dropouts? And the coverups throughout management?
The guy who exposed it from a few levels down had to
go to the media before it exploded.

They were purposefully omitting names and statistics,
altering statistics, and falsely labeling kids as
having transferred to schools - fabricated LIES.

They discovered it has been endemic, many schools
there have been doing this.

The "best schools in the nation" models are less than
advertized.

Though many might disagree, I recall another fraud. It's called grading on
a curve. Way back when, when too many kids were failing cuz they couldn't
answer 75% of the test questions correctly. No one stopped to consider that
the teachers weren't teaching. The grade curve made up for teacher
deficiences. I can recall when answering one-half of the test questions
correctly consituted an A. I disputed this with teachers but got
nowhere.Many kids received credit for one-half of the education they
thought they had acheived. The truth came out only when they had to compete
with others and learned, too late, they were so far behind. So much for the
quality of schools and teachers.


It was my experience in h.s. that kids often worked the curve
deliberately. Had nothing to do with the teacher (except he was dumb
enough to fall for the trick). Some time into the scam (this was biology),
my friend Kate and I decided to throw the curve and we got 97% or whatever
on the next test - throwing the curve into a nose dive. The other kids
were very angry but it stopped the nonsense and we were able to
get back to what should have been normal.

Then I went to college and my biology professor fell for the same
crud.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:36 GMT, "bobb" wrote:

Though many might disagree, I recall another fraud. It's called grading on
a curve. Way back when, when too many kids were failing cuz they couldn't
answer 75% of the test questions correctly. No one stopped to consider that
the teachers weren't teaching. The grade curve made up for teacher
deficiences. I can recall when answering one-half of the test questions
correctly consituted an A. I disputed this with teachers but got
nowhere.Many kids received credit for one-half of the education they
thought they had acheived. The truth came out only when they had to compete
with others and learned, too late, they were so far behind. So much for the
quality of schools and teachers.

Bobb, you misunderstand the purpose of curving grades and you also
misunderstand that the facts about it depend on the course and the
depth of the questions.

While a multiple choice test graded this way might be indicative of
poor teaching, it also might be indicative of political pressure from
above to pass students (this does happen and it isn't always the
teaching that is at fault, though it sometimes is).

When a course, however, is taught on a high level and tests are used
as learning devices, often a curve in terms of the grades in the
course is justifiable. My son's honors physics, honors chemistry and
honors math courses were all graded this way. 60% was a B, 80%
was an A. He, however, learned all of these subjects to a much higher
level that any of the kids who earned 90% on tests in the regular
classes because the questions on his tests required him to come up
with new ways to use the knowledge he had gained in the class, not
just to regurgitate facts.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

In article ,
toto wrote:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:36 GMT, "bobb" wrote:

Though many might disagree, I recall another fraud. It's called grading on
a curve. Way back when, when too many kids were failing cuz they couldn't
answer 75% of the test questions correctly. No one stopped to consider that
the teachers weren't teaching. The grade curve made up for teacher
deficiences. I can recall when answering one-half of the test questions
correctly consituted an A. I disputed this with teachers but got
nowhere.Many kids received credit for one-half of the education they
thought they had acheived. The truth came out only when they had to compete
with others and learned, too late, they were so far behind. So much for the
quality of schools and teachers.

Bobb, you misunderstand the purpose of curving grades and you also
misunderstand that the facts about it depend on the course and the
depth of the questions.

While a multiple choice test graded this way might be indicative of
poor teaching, it also might be indicative of political pressure from
above to pass students (this does happen and it isn't always the
teaching that is at fault, though it sometimes is).

When a course, however, is taught on a high level and tests are used
as learning devices, often a curve in terms of the grades in the
course is justifiable. My son's honors physics, honors chemistry and
honors math courses were all graded this way. 60% was a B, 80%
was an A. He, however, learned all of these subjects to a much higher
level that any of the kids who earned 90% on tests in the regular
classes because the questions on his tests required him to come up
with new ways to use the knowledge he had gained in the class, not
just to regurgitate facts.


If a set percentage was always a B, and a different percentage always an
A, then the course was NOT graded on a curve.

If it is graded on a curve, the teacher scores all the tests, and says
the top 5% are A's, the next 10% B's, the next 50% C's (these
percentages are pulled out of the air: different teachers will have
different percentages that the use.) The point is that you don't know
what raw score you have to get to get an A until all the scores are in,
because the teacher "grades on the curve".

There are problems with it -- but there are also problems with a
standard that says some arbitrary percentage is always an A. If, say
100 kids take a class for which they have all met the prerequisites, and
only 1 gets an A while 15 flunk -- then either there was a lousy
teacher, or there was a lousy grading system in place. Not all teachers
seem capable of teaching, and some who teach well seem incapable of
writing a decent test. I see a real problem with different grades
depending upon which teacher you get, right through college: some
teachers grade pretty easy, some grade very tough. Last year my son
took a college chemistry course which had, as a prerequisite, either a
high school chemistry class passed with a C or better, or an intro
college class. Of the 40 or so students who started the class, only 15
finished -- and of those, there was 1 A, a few Bs and C's, and an
astonishing number of F's. The teacher undoubtedly thinks he's a tough
but fair teacher who is weeding out the kids who can't cut it. My son
says he's a jackass who is a crappy teacher and shouldn't be allowed in
a classroom. (For credibility here, I should like to point out that my
son got a B.)

Sometimes I think UC-Santa Cruz has the right answer -- no grades, just
a narrative description of how well the student did and a pass/fail for
every class.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

What I do is, after the test I go through all the responses and find out how
many kids out of all 120 of them missed each question. Any question that
more than half the kids miss, I figure I obviously didn't cover that well
enough and I throw the question out so it's not counted in the total
possible score. Then the next year before I start teaching the unit, I go
back and look at my item analysis from the previous year, and that gives me
a guideline for what to really focus on or teach in a different way.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:36 GMT, "bobb" wrote:

Though many might disagree, I recall another fraud. It's called grading
on
a curve. Way back when, when too many kids were failing cuz they
couldn't
answer 75% of the test questions correctly. No one stopped to consider
that
the teachers weren't teaching. The grade curve made up for teacher
deficiences. I can recall when answering one-half of the test questions
correctly consituted an A. I disputed this with teachers but got
nowhere.Many kids received credit for one-half of the education they
thought they had acheived. The truth came out only when they had to
compete
with others and learned, too late, they were so far behind. So much for
the
quality of schools and teachers.

Bobb, you misunderstand the purpose of curving grades and you also
misunderstand that the facts about it depend on the course and the
depth of the questions.

While a multiple choice test graded this way might be indicative of
poor teaching, it also might be indicative of political pressure from
above to pass students (this does happen and it isn't always the
teaching that is at fault, though it sometimes is).

When a course, however, is taught on a high level and tests are used
as learning devices, often a curve in terms of the grades in the
course is justifiable. My son's honors physics, honors chemistry and
honors math courses were all graded this way. 60% was a B, 80%
was an A. He, however, learned all of these subjects to a much higher
level that any of the kids who earned 90% on tests in the regular
classes because the questions on his tests required him to come up
with new ways to use the knowledge he had gained in the class, not
just to regurgitate facts.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

I'd have to dig out some old report cards (Yeah, I still have them) but a
74% = F... which is a far cry from an A or B. An A was merited only for
those who scored above 95 or 96%.

Sorry, but I cannot, nor will I accept a B for knowing just 60% or the
required material and it certainly doesn't not merit honors... which is
meaningless these days.

Some 90% of Harvard grads acheived honors last year. That unholy practice
was supposed to end this year...and grade are to be more reflective of true
accomplishment ... not status.

Having reviewed, interviewed, many employment applications from 'college'
students I would suggest they are performing at the high school level. High
school graduates barely read or write at the 8th grade level.

A fraud is being perpetrated on many students for once in the work force
they are unable to compete against those who actually made the grade.

I've also learned good students might well come from bad schools... and bad
students might well come from good schools... it's up to the student... even
with bad teachers. Those who slide along doing less than their best harm no
one but themselves.

I will acknowledge that we need better teachers... teachers who can pass
minimum qualifications... not more pay.

bobb


bobb

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:41:15 GMT, "bobb" wrote:

I'd have to dig out some old report cards (Yeah, I still have them) but a
74% = F... which is a far cry from an A or B. An A was merited only for
those who scored above 95 or 96%.

Sorry, but I cannot, nor will I accept a B for knowing just 60% or the
required material and it certainly doesn't not merit honors... which is
meaningless these days.

He knew more than 60% of the material. The point was that the tests
were not geared to spitting back information, but to applying it in
new situations. He aced all the AP tests he took and tutored people
who were validictorians in high school in math when he went off to
college. Their 95s and 100s were useless knowledge because they
could not *do* the math at all. They had learned to plug things into
formulas but they could not apply the knowledge to derive a new
formula and they mostly could not decide which formula to use. He,
otoh, could.

Frankly, he thought he was not smart in high school, given the fact
that those others in his class were exceptional. When he went off
to engineering school, he did a double major with a heavy minor in
4 years while most of those who had those 90s in high school took
5 years to graduale.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:41:15 GMT, "bobb" wrote:

I'd have to dig out some old report cards (Yeah, I still have them) but a
74% = F... which is a far cry from an A or B. An A was merited only for
those who scored above 95 or 96%.

Oh, forgot. I went to school in a small town in Rockland County, New
York. At the time, 60% was a passing grade on the regents exams,
but those of us who took the regents courses in my school rarely
scored less than 80% which was a B. I scored quite high on the SATs
too. I was a merit semi-finalist, so the grades of 80 must have been
pretty good at that time.

The fact is that grades and what they mean is subjective. And not
only that, but it depends on what the test is like and how it is
scored.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

: The fact is that grades and what they mean is subjective. And not
: only that, but it depends on what the test is like and how it is
: scored.

YES, that is so true. Who the heck decided that 90% and up should be an A?
And that below 60% was an F?

I used to teach AP Chemistry at a high school in the Denver area. It was
very difficult to teach, mainly because the test was so stacked against the
kids. There was just waaaay too much material on it, no way anybody could
actually achieve what would be considered an "A". The multiple choice
section was first, and usually that part was so demoralizing, kids just gave
up after that because they'd finish that and **know** that they had bombed
it. What they couldn't accept was that if they even got *half* of the
multiple choice questions right, then chances were they actually *passed*
that section. These were kids who were used to getting straight A's, so for
them to get finished with a *multiple choice* test and know that they
*might* have gotten half of them right, usually meant they'd completely give
up on the second part.

During the year leading up to the AP exam, I gave many tests on which the
*highest* score in the class was 50%. All tests were comprehensive, so it
only got worse throughout the year. Of course I curved these tests; the
point was to get kids used to scoring *that low* and still "passing" because
that is the reality of the AP exam. Starting second semester, my exams
followed the AP exam format, so they could get used to how the actual test
was set up. But I don't think they ever did get used to getting half of the
problems *wrong.*
--
ColoradoSkiBum