FL police taser 6yo principal's office in Miami

On 12 Nov 2004 13:35:33 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

Subject: Cops taser 6 y.o. boy armed with piece of glass

I presume you are pleased, Fern, that the police found a way to safely
stop this child and prevent his possible suicide. Especially since no
one else was hurt or killed.

By the way, any sharp edged object that happens to hit and cut an
artery, and they are quite reachable on various parts of the body,
could easily kill the victim in a matter of minutes....as few as five.
It's quite easy to do this. Even a six year old can do it.

Amazing that an officer, after tasing the boy, stepped right in where
he could have easily been cut himself, and even kept the boy from
being injured from falling. Damn brave officers, as well as
intelligent and resourceful.

Can you think of a way, not already tried and failed with this child,
that would have worked as well with no injuries to anyone, not even
the child?


By the way. A 50,000 volt shock is not lethal, not even to a small
dog. It's not the voltage that kills or injures. Look up "Amps" or
"Amperage" and "voltage."

Here's a note from an electrical safety site:
"
International safety regulations specify that human beings can only be
exposed for a very short period of time:

to an amperage of 30mA
and to a voltage that is smaller than 42V
"
You'd think then that 50,000 volts would be dangerous, wouldn't you.

But, the coeficient for heat...the real danger, is in the amps.
Wattage is the biggie... how many watts can you body take before
injury?

From a taser info website Q&A:
"
ISN'T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a
25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry day
without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is
determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source that
produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is
dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout the
body indefinitely. By contrast, the ADVANCED TASER power supply
consists of 8 AA alkaline 1.5-Volt batteries capable of supplying 26
Watts of electrical power for a few seconds.
"

Here's a site that charts the effectiveness and dangers from force
options employed by police. Notice where Taser's rank for risk? Yet
they are highly effective:

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eleases/84086/
"
Note that the TASER non-lethal weapon significantly reduced the number
of injuries to both officers and suspects – to zero in both cases.
From a purely quantitative point of view, it is clear that the TASER
system represents a lower risk of injury for both the officer and the
suspect than more prevalent blunt impact techniques such as flashlight
strikes, punches, and baton strikes.
"

Imagine grabbing a child who has already cut himself, and threated to
cut others, gyrating and struggling...think of the danger to him and
to those trying to subdue him. This boy obviously wasn't going to be
talked out of his behavior, and leaving him alone and unobserved isn't
an option with someone that's already cut themselves.

Thank goodness those cops had a taser handy, and the knowledge to use
it. The boy, wonderfully, is still alive.

Too bad, for you, isn't it that he wasn't injured to dead, so that you
could and your cronies gloat some more about "the state," and the
horrible things it does.

As for this being posted in the spanking ng...well, there was no
Corporal Punishment involved here. And holding or even hitting a
child, if one can find a way to apply that meets the criteria, to save
his or her life or injury, or the life and injury to others is
acceptable under law.

What way, if any, did you see this as applying to the debate on
spanking?

And finally:

I'm curious about the parenthesis portion of the poster's name below
whose post you lifted and reposted. Doesn't it seem odd? It appears to
be libelous. Do you approve of libelous statements such as this?

Kane

From: (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend)
Date: 11/12/2004 12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2896941

Nov. 11, 2004, 8:29PM

MIAMI -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his
principal's
office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to
hurt himself, officials said today.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on
Oct.
20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture
frame
in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard
back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer
arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his
hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his
own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed him
to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for
psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him
from
hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami
Herald.

The case was under review.


DESCRIPTORS; DCF, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, ATTENTION SEEKING BEHAVIOR,
CPS, CHILD
PROTECTIVE

What a cowardly cop. Cannot even disarm a six year old.. I bet he's
secretly the laughing stock of the department.. hahaha. Don't care the the
six year old had a six in knife or even a box cutter... the big cop (unless
it was a woman) should been able to out manuver and over-power a sex year
old. I just can't keep from laughing. I've disarmed grown men and women
with knives, boiling water, baseball bats.. and yeh... guns. Worse I ever
got was a broken thumb.

I'm still upset that the cops didn't enter columbine as well. A pansey crew
without their ticket books that's sure.

bobb

More on this (and yet another) case below.
Sherman.

Associated Press

November 13, 2004, 12:18 PM EST


MIAMI -- Police have acknowledged using a stun gun to immobilize a
12-year-old girl just weeks after an officer jolted a first-grader with
50,000 volts.

Police Director Bobby Parker defended the decision to use a Taser on the
6-year-old boy last month because he was threatening to injure himself with
a shard of glass. But Parker said Friday that he could not defend the
decision to shock the fleeing girl, who was skipping school and apparently
drunk.

According to the incident report, officer William Nelson responded to a
complaint that children were swimming in a pool, drinking alcohol and
smoking cigars on the morning of Nov. 5.

Nelson said he noticed the girl was intoxicated and was walking her to his
car to take her back to school when she ran away through a parking lot.

Nelson, 38, said he chased her and yelled several times for her to stop
before firing the Taser when she began to run into traffic. The electric
probes hit the girl in the neck and lower back, immobilizing her.

Nelson said he fired "for my safety along with (the girl's) safety."
Paramedics treated the girl, who went home with her mother.

Parker said department policy permits officers to use the Taser to apprehend
someone, but he said he expected his officers to use better judgment,
especially when police had no plans to arrest the girl.

The first incident had already exposed the department to more criticism for
its use of Tasers, which it has begun distributing in greater numbers to
officers.

The 6-year-old boy was shocked on Oct. 20 in the principal's office at
Kelsey Pharr Elementary School. Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the
child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass,
holding a security guard back.

The boy had cut himself under his eye and on his hand when officers arrived.

"The police could have handled this better," said the boy's mother, Kathy
Rojas. "They did not have to shoot him."

Parker said that, in light of the disclosure of the second incident, the
department will review its policy.

"Sherman" wrote in message
news
More on this (and yet another) case below.
Sherman.

Associated Press

November 13, 2004, 12:18 PM EST


MIAMI -- Police have acknowledged using a stun gun to immobilize a
12-year-old girl just weeks after an officer jolted a first-grader with
50,000 volts.

Police Director Bobby Parker defended the decision to use a Taser on the
6-year-old boy last month because he was threatening to injure himself
with
a shard of glass. But Parker said Friday that he could not defend the
decision to shock the fleeing girl, who was skipping school and apparently
drunk.

According to the incident report, officer William Nelson responded to a
complaint that children were swimming in a pool, drinking alcohol and
smoking cigars on the morning of Nov. 5.

Nelson said he noticed the girl was intoxicated and was walking her to his
car to take her back to school when she ran away through a parking lot.

Nelson, 38, said he chased her and yelled several times for her to stop
before firing the Taser when she began to run into traffic. The electric
probes hit the girl in the neck and lower back, immobilizing her.

Nelson said he fired "for my safety along with (the girl's) safety."
Paramedics treated the girl, who went home with her mother.

Parker said department policy permits officers to use the Taser to
apprehend
someone, but he said he expected his officers to use better judgment,
especially when police had no plans to arrest the girl.

The first incident had already exposed the department to more criticism
for
its use of Tasers, which it has begun distributing in greater numbers to
officers.

The 6-year-old boy was shocked on Oct. 20 in the principal's office at
Kelsey Pharr Elementary School. Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the
child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass,
holding a security guard back.

The boy had cut himself under his eye and on his hand when officers
arrived.

"The police could have handled this better," said the boy's mother, Kathy
Rojas. "They did not have to shoot him."

Parker said that, in light of the disclosure of the second incident, the
department will review its policy.

Just yesterday, the news reported that the department involved in the 6 year
old boy did not see the necessity of using the stun gun. There is more to
come, I'm sure. I'm hoping for a few dismissals

bobb

I am happy that the boy, nor anyone else, was hurt, however, I do think this
was excessive force.


"kane" wrote in message
om...
On 12 Nov 2004 13:35:33 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

Subject: Cops taser 6 y.o. boy armed with piece of glass

I presume you are pleased, Fern, that the police found a way to safely
stop this child and prevent his possible suicide. Especially since no
one else was hurt or killed.

By the way, any sharp edged object that happens to hit and cut an
artery, and they are quite reachable on various parts of the body,
could easily kill the victim in a matter of minutes....as few as five.
It's quite easy to do this. Even a six year old can do it.

Amazing that an officer, after tasing the boy, stepped right in where
he could have easily been cut himself, and even kept the boy from
being injured from falling. Damn brave officers, as well as
intelligent and resourceful.

Can you think of a way, not already tried and failed with this child,
that would have worked as well with no injuries to anyone, not even
the child?


By the way. A 50,000 volt shock is not lethal, not even to a small
dog. It's not the voltage that kills or injures. Look up "Amps" or
"Amperage" and "voltage."

Here's a note from an electrical safety site:
"
International safety regulations specify that human beings can only be
exposed for a very short period of time:

to an amperage of 30mA
and to a voltage that is smaller than 42V
"
You'd think then that 50,000 volts would be dangerous, wouldn't you.

But, the coeficient for heat...the real danger, is in the amps.
Wattage is the biggie... how many watts can you body take before
injury?

From a taser info website Q&A:
"
ISN'T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a
25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry day
without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is
determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source that
produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is
dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout the
body indefinitely. By contrast, the ADVANCED TASER power supply
consists of 8 AA alkaline 1.5-Volt batteries capable of supplying 26
Watts of electrical power for a few seconds.
"

Here's a site that charts the effectiveness and dangers from force
options employed by police. Notice where Taser's rank for risk? Yet
they are highly effective:

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eleases/84086/
"
Note that the TASER non-lethal weapon significantly reduced the number
of injuries to both officers and suspects - to zero in both cases.
From a purely quantitative point of view, it is clear that the TASER
system represents a lower risk of injury for both the officer and the
suspect than more prevalent blunt impact techniques such as flashlight
strikes, punches, and baton strikes.
"

Imagine grabbing a child who has already cut himself, and threated to
cut others, gyrating and struggling...think of the danger to him and
to those trying to subdue him. This boy obviously wasn't going to be
talked out of his behavior, and leaving him alone and unobserved isn't
an option with someone that's already cut themselves.

Thank goodness those cops had a taser handy, and the knowledge to use
it. The boy, wonderfully, is still alive.

Too bad, for you, isn't it that he wasn't injured to dead, so that you
could and your cronies gloat some more about "the state," and the
horrible things it does.

As for this being posted in the spanking ng...well, there was no
Corporal Punishment involved here. And holding or even hitting a
child, if one can find a way to apply that meets the criteria, to save
his or her life or injury, or the life and injury to others is
acceptable under law.

What way, if any, did you see this as applying to the debate on
spanking?

And finally:

I'm curious about the parenthesis portion of the poster's name below
whose post you lifted and reposted. Doesn't it seem odd? It appears to
be libelous. Do you approve of libelous statements such as this?

Kane

From: (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend)
Date: 11/12/2004 12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2896941

Nov. 11, 2004, 8:29PM

MIAMI -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his
principal's
office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to
hurt himself, officials said today.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on
Oct.
20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture
frame
in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard
back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer
arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his
hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his
own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed him
to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for
psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him
from
hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami
Herald.

The case was under review.


DESCRIPTORS; DCF, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, ATTENTION SEEKING BEHAVIOR,
CPS, CHILD
PROTECTIVE

"bobb" bob@somewhere wrote in message ...
"Sherman" wrote in message
news
More on this (and yet another) case below.
Sherman.

Associated Press

November 13, 2004, 12:18 PM EST


MIAMI -- Police have acknowledged using a stun gun to immobilize a
12-year-old girl just weeks after an officer jolted a first-grader with
50,000 volts.

Police Director Bobby Parker defended the decision to use a Taser on the
6-year-old boy last month because he was threatening to injure himself
with
a shard of glass. But Parker said Friday that he could not defend the
decision to shock the fleeing girl, who was skipping school and apparently
drunk.

According to the incident report, officer William Nelson responded to a
complaint that children were swimming in a pool, drinking alcohol and
smoking cigars on the morning of Nov. 5.

Nelson said he noticed the girl was intoxicated and was walking her to his
car to take her back to school when she ran away through a parking lot.

Nelson, 38, said he chased her and yelled several times for her to stop
before firing the Taser when she began to run into traffic. The electric
probes hit the girl in the neck and lower back, immobilizing her.

Nelson said he fired "for my safety along with (the girl's) safety."
Paramedics treated the girl, who went home with her mother.

Parker said department policy permits officers to use the Taser to
apprehend
someone, but he said he expected his officers to use better judgment,
especially when police had no plans to arrest the girl.

The first incident had already exposed the department to more criticism
for
its use of Tasers, which it has begun distributing in greater numbers to
officers.

The 6-year-old boy was shocked on Oct. 20 in the principal's office at
Kelsey Pharr Elementary School. Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the
child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass,
holding a security guard back.

The boy had cut himself under his eye and on his hand when officers
arrived.

"The police could have handled this better," said the boy's mother, Kathy
Rojas. "They did not have to shoot him."

Parker said that, in light of the disclosure of the second incident, the
department will review its policy.

Just yesterday, the news reported that the department involved in the 6 year
old boy did not see the necessity of using the stun gun. There is more to
come, I'm sure. I'm hoping for a few dismissals

And who would you want dismissed of the cop hadn't used the taser and
the girl managed to continue her run, drunk, into traffic and get
killed? He wasn't, apparently, planning on arresting her, but
returning her to school. What do you think he decided to use the taser
for...to punish her?

You all know so much without being there. By the way, a 50,000volt
charge is nothing compared to a 5,000 lb auto mobile going 35 miles
perhour. One you'll get up from and dust yourself off and walk away.
The other?

Yer passle of hate has gotcha, bobber the swift. If I was drunk and
about to run into traffic and cop hit me with it and saved my life I'd
damn sure be on his or her doorstep the next day apologizing for the
trauma I cause him or her.

And thanking him or her profusely. Probably would get a card every
year from me on the anniversary of saving my life..."One more year,"
it would read, "because of your forethought and dedication to your
job."

Or I could just be dead...had the cop responded to pressure from know
nothings such as you as being more important than my life.

I hope the family of that 12 year old drunk girl appreciate what he
did for them and her. 12 year olds can be stupid enough without
wandering about drunk. They do not believe they can die.

bobb

Kane

WitchWirsen wrote:
I am happy that the boy, nor anyone else, was hurt, however, I do think this
was excessive force.


"kane" wrote in message
om...

On 12 Nov 2004 13:35:33 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:


Subject: Cops taser 6 y.o. boy armed with piece of glass

I presume you are pleased, Fern, that the police found a way to safely
stop this child and prevent his possible suicide. Especially since no
one else was hurt or killed.

By the way, any sharp edged object that happens to hit and cut an
artery, and they are quite reachable on various parts of the body,
could easily kill the victim in a matter of minutes....as few as five.
It's quite easy to do this. Even a six year old can do it.

Amazing that an officer, after tasing the boy, stepped right in where
he could have easily been cut himself, and even kept the boy from
being injured from falling. Damn brave officers, as well as
intelligent and resourceful.

Can you think of a way, not already tried and failed with this child,
that would have worked as well with no injuries to anyone, not even
the child?


By the way. A 50,000 volt shock is not lethal, not even to a small
dog. It's not the voltage that kills or injures. Look up "Amps" or
"Amperage" and "voltage."

Here's a note from an electrical safety site:
"
International safety regulations specify that human beings can only be
exposed for a very short period of time:

to an amperage of 30mA
and to a voltage that is smaller than 42V
"
You'd think then that 50,000 volts would be dangerous, wouldn't you.

But, the coeficient for heat...the real danger, is in the amps.
Wattage is the biggie... how many watts can you body take before
injury?

From a taser info website Q&A:
"
ISN'T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a
25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry day
without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is
determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source that
produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is
dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout the
body indefinitely. By contrast, the ADVANCED TASER power supply
consists of 8 AA alkaline 1.5-Volt batteries capable of supplying 26
Watts of electrical power for a few seconds.
"

Here's a site that charts the effectiveness and dangers from force
options employed by police. Notice where Taser's rank for risk? Yet
they are highly effective:

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eleases/84086/
"
Note that the TASER non-lethal weapon significantly reduced the number
of injuries to both officers and suspects - to zero in both cases.
From a purely quantitative point of view, it is clear that the TASER
system represents a lower risk of injury for both the officer and the
suspect than more prevalent blunt impact techniques such as flashlight
strikes, punches, and baton strikes.
"

Imagine grabbing a child who has already cut himself, and threated to
cut others, gyrating and struggling...think of the danger to him and
to those trying to subdue him. This boy obviously wasn't going to be
talked out of his behavior, and leaving him alone and unobserved isn't
an option with someone that's already cut themselves.

Thank goodness those cops had a taser handy, and the knowledge to use
it. The boy, wonderfully, is still alive.

Too bad, for you, isn't it that he wasn't injured to dead, so that you
could and your cronies gloat some more about "the state," and the
horrible things it does.

As for this being posted in the spanking ng...well, there was no
Corporal Punishment involved here. And holding or even hitting a
child, if one can find a way to apply that meets the criteria, to save
his or her life or injury, or the life and injury to others is
acceptable under law.

What way, if any, did you see this as applying to the debate on
spanking?

And finally:

I'm curious about the parenthesis portion of the poster's name below
whose post you lifted and reposted. Doesn't it seem odd? It appears to
be libelous. Do you approve of libelous statements such as this?

Kane


From: (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend)
Date: 11/12/2004 12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2896941

Nov. 11, 2004, 8:29PM

MIAMI -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his

principal's

office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to
hurt himself, officials said today.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on

Oct.

20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture

frame

in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard
back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer
arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his
hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his
own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed him
to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for
psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him

from

hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami
Herald.

The case was under review.


DESCRIPTORS; DCF, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, ATTENTION SEEKING BEHAVIOR,

CPS, CHILD

PROTECTIVE







I think the police used good judgement in tasering the kid. All it
takes is one false move to cut either the boy or a police trying to grab
the glass from him. Unfortunately Bobb wasn't there to save the day.
What you have suggested they do? Keep in mind that disarming a glass
shard from someone almost guarantees that the kids hand will be cut up.
Sure the taser disables the kid but he is none worse for the wear
when it wears off and he didn't cut himself or anyone else. If he
didn't have a weapon then I would agree it was excessive, but since he
did, it was just right.

"Jason Stanley" wrote in message
...
WitchWirsen wrote:
I am happy that the boy, nor anyone else, was hurt, however, I do think
this was excessive force.


"kane" wrote in message
om...

On 12 Nov 2004 13:35:33 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:


Subject: Cops taser 6 y.o. boy armed with piece of glass

I presume you are pleased, Fern, that the police found a way to safely
stop this child and prevent his possible suicide. Especially since no
one else was hurt or killed.

By the way, any sharp edged object that happens to hit and cut an
artery, and they are quite reachable on various parts of the body,
could easily kill the victim in a matter of minutes....as few as five.
It's quite easy to do this. Even a six year old can do it.

Amazing that an officer, after tasing the boy, stepped right in where
he could have easily been cut himself, and even kept the boy from
being injured from falling. Damn brave officers, as well as
intelligent and resourceful.

Can you think of a way, not already tried and failed with this child,
that would have worked as well with no injuries to anyone, not even
the child?


By the way. A 50,000 volt shock is not lethal, not even to a small
dog. It's not the voltage that kills or injures. Look up "Amps" or
"Amperage" and "voltage."

Here's a note from an electrical safety site:
"
International safety regulations specify that human beings can only be
exposed for a very short period of time:

to an amperage of 30mA
and to a voltage that is smaller than 42V
"
You'd think then that 50,000 volts would be dangerous, wouldn't you.

But, the coeficient for heat...the real danger, is in the amps.
Wattage is the biggie... how many watts can you body take before
injury?

From a taser info website Q&A:
"
ISN'T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a
25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry day
without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is
determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source that
produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is
dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout the
body indefinitely. By contrast, the ADVANCED TASER power supply
consists of 8 AA alkaline 1.5-Volt batteries capable of supplying 26
Watts of electrical power for a few seconds.
"

Here's a site that charts the effectiveness and dangers from force
options employed by police. Notice where Taser's rank for risk? Yet
they are highly effective:

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eleases/84086/
"
Note that the TASER non-lethal weapon significantly reduced the number
of injuries to both officers and suspects - to zero in both cases.
From a purely quantitative point of view, it is clear that the TASER
system represents a lower risk of injury for both the officer and the
suspect than more prevalent blunt impact techniques such as flashlight
strikes, punches, and baton strikes.
"

Imagine grabbing a child who has already cut himself, and threated to
cut others, gyrating and struggling...think of the danger to him and
to those trying to subdue him. This boy obviously wasn't going to be
talked out of his behavior, and leaving him alone and unobserved isn't
an option with someone that's already cut themselves.

Thank goodness those cops had a taser handy, and the knowledge to use
it. The boy, wonderfully, is still alive.

Too bad, for you, isn't it that he wasn't injured to dead, so that you
could and your cronies gloat some more about "the state," and the
horrible things it does.

As for this being posted in the spanking ng...well, there was no
Corporal Punishment involved here. And holding or even hitting a
child, if one can find a way to apply that meets the criteria, to save
his or her life or injury, or the life and injury to others is
acceptable under law.

What way, if any, did you see this as applying to the debate on
spanking?

And finally:

I'm curious about the parenthesis portion of the poster's name below
whose post you lifted and reposted. Doesn't it seem odd? It appears to
be libelous. Do you approve of libelous statements such as this?

Kane


From: (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend)
Date: 11/12/2004 12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2896941

Nov. 11, 2004, 8:29PM

MIAMI -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his

principal's

office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to
hurt himself, officials said today.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on

Oct.

20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture

frame

in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard
back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer
arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his
hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his
own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed him
to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for
psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him

from

hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami
Herald.

The case was under review.


DESCRIPTORS; DCF, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, ATTENTION SEEKING BEHAVIOR,

CPS, CHILD

PROTECTIVE







I think the police used good judgement in tasering the kid. All it takes
is one false move to cut either the boy or a police trying to grab the
glass from him. Unfortunately Bobb wasn't there to save the day. What you
have suggested they do? Keep in mind that disarming a glass shard from
someone almost guarantees that the kids hand will be cut up. Sure the
taser disables the kid but he is none worse for the wear when it wears off
and he didn't cut himself or anyone else. If he didn't have a weapon then
I would agree it was excessive, but since he did, it was just right.


Hmmm... not with standing that the child could've suffer a heart attact.. or
been struck in the eye or head... I guess the result was not bad.. not bad
at all.

We sorta fail to consider they type employee that would even resort such a
measure. Let's see if I read the story correctly there were even phones
calls to learn if policy allowed the use of the taser... all the while the
child is holding onto the glass. She presumably was in a closed room (kane
say she was tased so she couldn't run out into the street and get killed)
and except for the enept officer .. no one was in danger. Heck, even the
officer was not in danger. Let's see... that shard of glass might have cut
the officer on the legs... but I don't believe that would be so bad. The
claimed fear that that the child would injure herself. It was said she
already had cuts on her legs and face. I'm suspicous enough to beleive the
officer was responsible for those cuts....minor at that. when perhaps
struggling to take the glass away from the child and quite possibly in a
rage already because the picture was broken. My gosh.. what a scene with a
six year old girl with such supurb hand eye corrindaton and such strength
that other alternatives couldn't be used.

Yep.. fire her ass... and as I correctly assumed... it was a female employee
that I hate to recognize as an officer.

bobb

"bobb" bob@somewhere wrote in message
...

"Jason Stanley" wrote in message
...
WitchWirsen wrote:
I am happy that the boy, nor anyone else, was hurt, however, I do think
this was excessive force.


"kane" wrote in message
om...

On 12 Nov 2004 13:35:33 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:


Subject: Cops taser 6 y.o. boy armed with piece of glass

I presume you are pleased, Fern, that the police found a way to safely
stop this child and prevent his possible suicide. Especially since no
one else was hurt or killed.

By the way, any sharp edged object that happens to hit and cut an
artery, and they are quite reachable on various parts of the body,
could easily kill the victim in a matter of minutes....as few as five.
It's quite easy to do this. Even a six year old can do it.

Amazing that an officer, after tasing the boy, stepped right in where
he could have easily been cut himself, and even kept the boy from
being injured from falling. Damn brave officers, as well as
intelligent and resourceful.

Can you think of a way, not already tried and failed with this child,
that would have worked as well with no injuries to anyone, not even
the child?


By the way. A 50,000 volt shock is not lethal, not even to a small
dog. It's not the voltage that kills or injures. Look up "Amps" or
"Amperage" and "voltage."

Here's a note from an electrical safety site:
"
International safety regulations specify that human beings can only be
exposed for a very short period of time:

to an amperage of 30mA
and to a voltage that is smaller than 42V
"
You'd think then that 50,000 volts would be dangerous, wouldn't you.

But, the coeficient for heat...the real danger, is in the amps.
Wattage is the biggie... how many watts can you body take before
injury?

From a taser info website Q&A:
"
ISN'T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a
25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry day
without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is
determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source that
produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is
dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout the
body indefinitely. By contrast, the ADVANCED TASER power supply
consists of 8 AA alkaline 1.5-Volt batteries capable of supplying 26
Watts of electrical power for a few seconds.
"

Here's a site that charts the effectiveness and dangers from force
options employed by police. Notice where Taser's rank for risk? Yet
they are highly effective:


http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...press-releases
/84086/
"
Note that the TASER non-lethal weapon significantly reduced the number
of injuries to both officers and suspects - to zero in both cases.
From a purely quantitative point of view, it is clear that the TASER
system represents a lower risk of injury for both the officer and the
suspect than more prevalent blunt impact techniques such as flashlight
strikes, punches, and baton strikes.
"

Imagine grabbing a child who has already cut himself, and threated to
cut others, gyrating and struggling...think of the danger to him and
to those trying to subdue him. This boy obviously wasn't going to be
talked out of his behavior, and leaving him alone and unobserved isn't
an option with someone that's already cut themselves.

Thank goodness those cops had a taser handy, and the knowledge to use
it. The boy, wonderfully, is still alive.

Too bad, for you, isn't it that he wasn't injured to dead, so that you
could and your cronies gloat some more about "the state," and the
horrible things it does.

As for this being posted in the spanking ng...well, there was no
Corporal Punishment involved here. And holding or even hitting a
child, if one can find a way to apply that meets the criteria, to save
his or her life or injury, or the life and injury to others is
acceptable under law.

What way, if any, did you see this as applying to the debate on
spanking?

And finally:

I'm curious about the parenthesis portion of the poster's name below
whose post you lifted and reposted. Doesn't it seem odd? It appears to
be libelous. Do you approve of libelous statements such as this?

Kane


From: (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend)
Date: 11/12/2004 12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2896941

Nov. 11, 2004, 8:29PM

MIAMI -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his

principal's

office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening to
hurt himself, officials said today.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on

Oct.

20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture

frame

in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security guard
back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer
arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his
hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut his
own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed him
to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed for
psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him

from

hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami
Herald.

The case was under review.


DESCRIPTORS; DCF, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, ATTENTION SEEKING BEHAVIOR,

CPS, CHILD

PROTECTIVE







I think the police used good judgement in tasering the kid. All it
takes
is one false move to cut either the boy or a police trying to grab the
glass from him. Unfortunately Bobb wasn't there to save the day. What
you
have suggested they do? Keep in mind that disarming a glass shard from
someone almost guarantees that the kids hand will be cut up. Sure the
taser disables the kid but he is none worse for the wear when it wears
off
and he didn't cut himself or anyone else. If he didn't have a weapon
then
I would agree it was excessive, but since he did, it was just right.


Hmmm... not with standing that the child could've suffer a heart attact..
or
been struck in the eye or head... I guess the result was not bad.. not bad
at all.

We sorta fail to consider they type employee that would even resort such a
measure. Let's see if I read the story correctly there were even phones
calls to learn if policy allowed the use of the taser... all the while the
child is holding onto the glass. She presumably was in a closed room
(kane
say she was tased so she couldn't run out into the street and get killed)
and except for the enept officer .. no one was in danger. Heck, even the
officer was not in danger. Let's see... that shard of glass might have cut
the officer on the legs... but I don't believe that would be so bad. The
claimed fear that that the child would injure herself. It was said she
already had cuts on her legs and face. I'm suspicous enough to beleive
the
officer was responsible for those cuts....minor at that. when perhaps
struggling to take the glass away from the child and quite possibly in a
rage already because the picture was broken. My gosh.. what a scene with
a
six year old girl with such supurb hand eye corrindaton and such strength
that other alternatives couldn't be used.

Quite obviously, you have not been confronted with protecting an aggitated
and wild FASD and like mentally impaired child - of any age!
Sherman.


Yep.. fire her ass... and as I correctly assumed... it was a female
employee
that I hate to recognize as an officer.

bobb

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:54:17 -0600, "bobb" bob@somewhere wrote:


"Jason Stanley" wrote in message
...
WitchWirsen wrote:
I am happy that the boy, nor anyone else, was hurt, however, I do
think
this was excessive force.


"kane" wrote in message
om...

On 12 Nov 2004 13:35:33 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:


Subject: Cops taser 6 y.o. boy armed with piece of glass

I presume you are pleased, Fern, that the police found a way to
safely
stop this child and prevent his possible suicide. Especially since
no
one else was hurt or killed.

By the way, any sharp edged object that happens to hit and cut an
artery, and they are quite reachable on various parts of the body,
could easily kill the victim in a matter of minutes....as few as
five.
It's quite easy to do this. Even a six year old can do it.

Amazing that an officer, after tasing the boy, stepped right in
where
he could have easily been cut himself, and even kept the boy from
being injured from falling. Damn brave officers, as well as
intelligent and resourceful.

Can you think of a way, not already tried and failed with this
child,
that would have worked as well with no injuries to anyone, not
even
the child?


By the way. A 50,000 volt shock is not lethal, not even to a small
dog. It's not the voltage that kills or injures. Look up "Amps" or
"Amperage" and "voltage."

Here's a note from an electrical safety site:
"
International safety regulations specify that human beings can
only be
exposed for a very short period of time:

to an amperage of 30mA
and to a voltage that is smaller than 42V
"
You'd think then that 50,000 volts would be dangerous, wouldn't
you.

But, the coeficient for heat...the real danger, is in the amps.
Wattage is the biggie... how many watts can you body take before
injury?

From a taser info website Q&A:
"
ISN'T HIGH VOLTAGE LETHAL?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High voltage, in itself, is not dangerous. One can receive a
25,000-volt shock of static electricity from a doorknob on a dry
day
without harm. The physiological effect of electrical shock is
determined by: the current, its duration, and the power source
that
produces the shock. The typical household current of 110 volts is
dangerous because it can pump many amperes of current throughout
the
body indefinitely. By contrast, the ADVANCED TASER power supply
consists of 8 AA alkaline 1.5-Volt batteries capable of supplying
26
Watts of electrical power for a few seconds.
"

Here's a site that charts the effectiveness and dangers from force
options employed by police. Notice where Taser's rank for risk?
Yet
they are highly effective:

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...eleases/84086/
"
Note that the TASER non-lethal weapon significantly reduced the
number
of injuries to both officers and suspects - to zero in both cases.
From a purely quantitative point of view, it is clear that the
TASER
system represents a lower risk of injury for both the officer and
the
suspect than more prevalent blunt impact techniques such as
flashlight
strikes, punches, and baton strikes.
"

Imagine grabbing a child who has already cut himself, and threated
to
cut others, gyrating and struggling...think of the danger to him
and
to those trying to subdue him. This boy obviously wasn't going to
be
talked out of his behavior, and leaving him alone and unobserved
isn't
an option with someone that's already cut themselves.

Thank goodness those cops had a taser handy, and the knowledge to
use
it. The boy, wonderfully, is still alive.

Too bad, for you, isn't it that he wasn't injured to dead, so that
you
could and your cronies gloat some more about "the state," and the
horrible things it does.

As for this being posted in the spanking ng...well, there was no
Corporal Punishment involved here. And holding or even hitting a
child, if one can find a way to apply that meets the criteria, to
save
his or her life or injury, or the life and injury to others is
acceptable under law.

What way, if any, did you see this as applying to the debate on
spanking?

And finally:

I'm curious about the parenthesis portion of the poster's name
below
whose post you lifted and reposted. Doesn't it seem odd? It
appears to
be libelous. Do you approve of libelous statements such as this?

Kane


From: (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend)
Date: 11/12/2004 12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2896941

Nov. 11, 2004, 8:29PM

MIAMI -- Police used a stun gun on a 6-year-old boy in his

principal's

office because he was wielding a piece of glass and threatening
to
hurt himself, officials said today.

The boy, who was not identified, was shocked with 50,000 volts on

Oct.

20 at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School.

Principal Maria Mason called 911 after the child broke a picture

frame

in her office and waved a piece of glass, holding a security
guard
back.

When two Miami-Dade County police officers and a school officer
arrived, the boy had already cut himself under his eye and on his
hand.

The officers talked to the boy without success. When the boy cut
his
own leg, one officer shocked him with a Taser and another grabbed
him
to prevent him from falling, police said.

He was treated and taken to a hospital, where he was committed
for
psychiatric evaluation.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him

from

hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The
Miami
Herald.

The case was under review.


DESCRIPTORS; DCF, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, ATTENTION SEEKING
BEHAVIOR,

CPS, CHILD

PROTECTIVE







I think the police used good judgement in tasering the kid. All it
takes
is one false move to cut either the boy or a police trying to grab
the
glass from him. Unfortunately Bobb wasn't there to save the day.
What you
have suggested they do? Keep in mind that disarming a glass shard
from
someone almost guarantees that the kids hand will be cut up. Sure
the
taser disables the kid but he is none worse for the wear when it
wears off
and he didn't cut himself or anyone else. If he didn't have a
weapon then
I would agree it was excessive, but since he did, it was just
right.


Hmmm... not with standing that the child could've suffer a heart
attact..

In a young child, or for that matter an adult, likely much more
survivable than a cut artery. Had he hit his own neck in the right
spot, or the inside of his leg at...well, I'm not going to describe
where the femoral artery is, but it's not hard to reach, he would have
had likely less than two or three minutes to live. And CPR doesn't
work with severed arteries.

or
been struck in the eye or head...

The did not stand back at 20 yards for a showoff shot. They had to
have been in the principals office..where the article said all the
action took place.. And I can't recall seeing one large then twenty
feet in any direction. You cannot miss at that range.

I guess the result was not bad.. not bad
at all.

Just as the officers knew the odds were....and so much better odds
than a grab. An hysterical thrashing small child, even younger than 8,
isn't all that easy to control the limbs of. I've seen grown men given
black eyes by children younger. Had the child's hand held a chard of
glass....well, let's not get too graphic.

We sorta fail to consider they type employee that would even resort
such a
measure.

What? What in the hell are you babbling about now?

Let's see if I read the story correctly there were even phones
calls to learn if policy allowed the use of the taser... all the
while the
child is holding onto the glass.

Yep. It takes seconds to connect with 911, where they HAVE a set of
police policy manual laid out in front of them.

She presumably was in a closed room (kane
say she was tased so she couldn't run out into the street and get
killed)
and except for the enept officer .. no one was in danger.

Oh brother. You ARE on something, aren't you, bobber the swift. You
are completely unaware this was two separate events, aren't you?

The girl was likely outdoors, drinking and smoking cigars..weird eh,
but that's kids for yah. I did the same thing at about her age, with
my buddies. Had a cop come and rounded us up and I ran, and was
headed, drunk, right into traffic, I would have that cop would have
clubbed me on the back of leg and taken me off my feet. A smack to the
calf with a baton used to be used to disable a runner...may still be
for all I know.

Heck, even the
officer was not in danger.

Then you do not think the job of the officer is to protect the public?
He should have stopped and just let her run into traffic drunk?
Hooookay!

Let's see... that shard of glass might have cut
the officer on the legs... but I don't believe that would be so bad.

If I wanted to communicate with you personally, which I don't, I'd be
happy to give you and anatomy lesson. When I was a kid and riding
cadet with a deputy (no, I decided against LE as a career) we got
called out to shooting. A city LEO down in our area in foot pursuit.
Shot in the leg with a .22. Dead as mud. Femoral artery hit. Look up
femoral artery. Those on scene before us said he went in about a
minute and a half...they could not get compression to work on the
wound. By the time the emt's got there all they needed was a body bag.

Do you know that in many jurisdictions cops are taught that they can
shoot on their own discretion if someone coming at them with an edged
or pointed weapon and are within 20ft of them?

Do you know why that is?

See if you can figure out how fast a human being can run 20ft, and
stab. A pistol can barely clear the holster in the less than 2 seconds
it takes for a person to run 20ft. Yes, less than 2 seconds...and that
would have to include the decision making time.

And the right hit with an edged weapon is just as deadly as a gun.
Either one hitting you in an artery will kill you dead dead dead PDQ.

That boy was endangering his life, and that of those around him.
Nothing would guarantee he would stay put and not charge
someone..those officers were extremely brave. 6 year olds are NOT
capable of "judgement" as we know it...able to abstract cause and
effect..that is way options. They are highly impulsive..one of the
reasons we call them "children" and limit their options, so they are
more likely to live to adulthood.

The issue of knife versus gun unjury fatality potential raged for some
time on talk.politics.guns. One of the regular posters, with
considerable experience had this to say:

"
Depends upon what you mean by "gun injuries" and "knife injuries".
If memory serves from my pathology training, perforating ( ie. wounds
that actually go into the viscera ) knife wounds of the trunk have
about the same overall lethality ( 15% or so ) as equivalent handgun
wounds. Less tissue damage from the knife wound is made up for by
the increased possibility of cutting a major vessel.

This discounts just getting "sliced up " with a knife, which is
rarely lethal except if you get a femoral artery or whatever. Rifle
and shotgun wounds are considerably more lethal. Up to 75% lethality
for trunchal shotgun
wounds.

Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
"

Our question of course, isn't a knife vs gun issue. It's whether not a
piece of glass is dangerous..possibly fatal. Survivalists have, for
the proof it could be done, completely dressed out large animals they
have taken on the hunt, with nothing more than a piece of glass.

I doubt it's online. I read it in a survivalist magazine in my
doctor's office, wouldn't yah know.

The
claimed fear that that the child would injure herself. It was said
she
already had cuts on her legs and face.

bobber, if you are brewing your own, you better check the alcohol
content and the possibility of contamination. You are not using very
many brain cells. "She" did not cut herself. She smoked cigars and
drank and was drunk and running in to traffic.


"He" cut himself with a piece of glass broken out of a picture frame
in the principal's office.

The same "principal's office" the our misplaced metaphore champ, Fern,
claim the police shot with a taser....R R R R R....

I'm suspicous enough to beleive the
officer was responsible for those cuts....minor at that.

Oh brother. What could I possible say that would be more of an insult
to bobber the swifts morals and intelligence than what he himself
says?

when perhaps
struggling to take the glass away from the child and quite possibly
in a
rage already because the picture was broken.

Yes. Police have the habit of going totally bonkers over broken
picture frames and attacking 6 year old boys. I've seen it many time's
myself. I try to keep small boys and framed pictures as far away from
police as I can. Yah never know....those police, sheess. 0;-

My gosh.. what a scene with a
six year old girl with such supurb hand eye corrindaton and such
strength
that other alternatives couldn't be used.

Oh ****...will you stop your ****ing ignorant babbling for a moment
and read the story...
"
WFTV.com
Police Taser 6-Year-Old Boy At Elementary School
"
http://www.wftv.com/news/3913217/detail.html

BOY BOY BOY BOY BOY.......the girl was 12, drunk, and running into a
street with traffic on it.

Yep.. fire her ass... and as I correctly assumed... it was a female
employee
that I hate to recognize as an officer.

Who? The officer was female? I couldn't find that. Could you point me
to that information?

You don't even think a women should be a police officer? Why is that?

You are so confused you confuse me, and that's hard to do. I thought,
until now, that Fern was the only one here that could confuse me with
her insane babbling..and trying to decypher what she actually meant.

Now YOU are obviouly imbibing her Liquid Fertilizer. Ho boy, what
next.

I'm beginning to question my own mental health. Imagine talking with
people like you for all this time as though you made any sense at all.
I have to be losing it to believe you could be sane.

I think trying to deal with reality, truth, and facts, has driven you
around the bend, bobber the swift. My sincere apology. 0;-

bobb

Kane