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Homework over spring break (long)



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 12th 04, 02:27 AM
beeswing
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

Over spring break, the students in our daughter's third grade class were tasked
with writing a report on a country. The Kid has been to Mexico several times,
so she chose to do hers on Mexico. The report consists of about 20 pages of
worksheets asking for information such as population details, history,
currency, national bird, national anthem, coat of arms, and so on...the usual.
The trouble is most of this required that The Kid be able to do research, and,
over break, we were going to *be* in Mexico, where there isn't cheap or easy
access to the internet or multitudes of books. The Kid got the assignment
shortly before we left, and it wasn't practical to go to the library on such
short notice or to comb the internet (nor to pack stacks of materials, even if
we had quickly found the information to bring with us). We did bring our
guidebook, but that's all we had handy.

We were gone from Saturday to Saturday. While we were there, The Kid worked on
the report almost every day, doing as much as she could with the limited
materials she had. (We even went to the tiny "Gringo bookshop" to find an old,
used, library book about Mexico.) Still, she's left with quite a few pages that
are incomplete. We got home last night, and she's worked a good part of today
on it. Right now, though, she's sleeping...she's too tired from her trip to
continue to do homework. Tomorrow she goes back to school, and the report is
due.

This teacher can be strict and by the book, and honestly, The Kid is very rigid
(so she's not likely to accept any alternative that doesn't originate with the
teacher). The Kid says that she told the teacher before she left that she might
not be able to complete the report on time because she was going to be in
Mexico, and the teacher wasn't sympathetic. (Admittedly, I take what our
daughter says with a grain of salt.) I chose not talk to the teacher about the
report before we left because that, to me, would have implied that we weren't
going to take a fair crack at getting our daughter to do it. With today being
Easter, we won't be able to speak to the teacher before The Kid goes to class
tomorrow, sans completed report.

The Kid is justifiably upset. My husband and I personally feel that she did the
best she could, given the situation; we really don't feel it would have been
right (or possible, even) to push her much harder. I believe in meeting
deadlines, and I'm not sure it's right to ask for or expect an extension for
our kid; but on the other hand, obviously our daughter learned a lot about
Mexico *in Mexico*, whether or not she was able to complete all the worksheet
pages in time.

As a totally irrelevant aside: Personally, I'm frustrated that my family wasn't
able to truly go on vacation...we had to bring several hours of homework and
the associated homework battles with us. I feel that kids and families should
get a real *break* for spring break, et al. Even if kids aren't doing anything
as radical as going out of the country, breaks are often times they spend busy
with family, which I think is at least equally important to kids as academics.
I'd certainly be unwilling to bring work from my job with me to do on vacation,
and it seems to me that kids need vacations as much as any of us. But that's
neither here nor there, and it didn't stop me from making The Kid work on her
report.

So what should we do? I think we'll have to ask our daughter to turn in the
unfinished report, along with the printouts of the national anthem, national
bird, and such -- part of the information she doesn't have time left to
transfer to the worksheet. Since that's not what the assignment asks for, The
Kid may well balk. Obviously, we'll call the teacher tomorrow and talk with her
directly.

I pretty much expect that the teacher will work with us, but I'm concerned
about The Kid, if for some reason she doesn't. The Kid is an "A" student who is
devastated by the idea that she might get an incomplete. Personally, I think
that she learned more about Mexico by being there than she ever could have by
solely doing a report; and I'm proud that she persevered on the report, even if
she didn't wholly complete it. I certainly don't see any failure on her
part...but I don't know that I'd be able to get her to accept that if she gets
a "D" on the combined report and project, as she fears she will. ("That's not
a passing grade!" she said, distressed.)

It is likely to be no big deal. We may talk to the teacher and hit a compromise
right off. But the stress isn't the best, for us or for The Kid, and I'm very
interested in hearing other folks' thoughts on this issue.

Thanks.

beeswing


  #2  
Old April 12th 04, 02:44 AM
Iowacookiemom
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

beeswing wrote:
Over spring break, the students in our daughter's third grade class were
tasked
with writing a report on a country. The Kid has been to Mexico several times,
so she chose to do hers on Mexico. The report consists of about 20 pages of
worksheets asking for information such as population details, history,
currency, national bird, national anthem, coat of arms, and so on...the
usual.


Ugh. Henry had one of those in third grade. It was a bear to finish, and I'm
not sure he learned much other than how to work Google (I guess that's no small
skill, but still...)

The trouble is most of this required that The Kid be able to do research,
and,
over break, we were going to *be* in Mexico, where there isn't cheap or easy
access to the internet or multitudes of books.


(snipped detail explaining that the assignment came shortly before break and
why the parents didn't talk to the teacher before they left for Mexico)

We were gone from Saturday to Saturday. While we were there, The Kid worked
on
the report almost every day


(snip)

We got home last night, and she's worked a good part of today
on it. Right now, though, she's sleeping...she's too tired from her trip to
continue to do homework. Tomorrow she goes back to school, and the report is
due.


The Kid is justifiably upset. My husband and I personally feel that she did
the
best she could


Goodness, she certainly did.

I'll tell you honestly what I would do. I'd get on the Internet myself, find
pages that answer the questions left, and print them off, highlighting the
answers. Then I'd help her fill in the missing blanks before school tomorrow
morning.

I'd also tell the teacher what I did, and raise holy h*ll about the way the
assignment was handled. At minimum, some sort of warning should have been
given to parents, or a few days grace provided at the end of the vacation.

My mother lives in the north woods of Wisconsin and has spotty, dial-up, webTV
internet access. Had we been in your shoes and spending Spring Break with her,
we would have had a similarly difficult time completing the assignment.

I would take the concern to the principal and the PTA. IMO it's time we
parents demand our family time back. Spring Vacation should be just that, a
vacation -- the only exception I would agree with would be a reading assignment
to keep kids up to speed on their reading skills.

I'd have had no problem with the assignment if it had come two or three weeks
ahead of the break, with the due date after break, to allow families the
*option* of using Spring Break for project completion if their plans allowed
for that.

Help your child be successful. She's already gone the extra mile.

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 11

  #3  
Old April 12th 04, 02:45 AM
Beth Kevles
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Default Homework over spring break (long)


Hi -

My first reaction was that project homework over spring break is
unreasonable for the 3rd grade. Even more, any project homework should
allow a reasonable amount of time for a family to get to the library
.... and DURING spring break doesn't count.

If I were you, I'd have explained all this to the teacher BEFORE you
left for the break (in a note if necessary) and asked for an alternative
assignment, questions to answer that would have required primary
research (looking around, talking to people in Mexico) rather than
library research. Then your daughter could have written up what she
learned in a journal rather than having to spend time she didn't have
answering library-type questions.

But that's split milk, so send in a note with your daughter along with
her (incomplete) assignment tomorrow, explaining what she DID
accomplish, that she used the only library she had available. (Was she
able to ask any of these questions to local residents? DId you or she
try, by the way?) Explain in the note that she's willing to complete
the work next week (or whenever you can get to the library), but that
you'd prefer if she could write up an account of her trip to the actual
country, perhaps using some teacher-provided questions that are relevant
to her experience.

Our school, thank goodness, doesn't give our homework over weekends or
holidays, and projects are given at least 3 weeks for completion so that
families can get to libraries.

My two cents,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

  #4  
Old April 12th 04, 04:23 AM
Cathy Kearns
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Default Homework over spring break (long)


"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...
Our school, thank goodness, doesn't give our homework over weekends or
holidays, and projects are given at least 3 weeks for completion so that
families can get to libraries.


Our elementary district has similar rules, and I think they make much sense.
However, the high school district has finals the 2nd week of January. This
meant they really should be studying over Christmas break. The students
at my daughter's high school decided that wasn't working for them. The
student government met with the administration and convinced them to
finish the first semester before the break. This year was the first year of
the trial. The results were amazing. The number of failing freshmen and
sophmores dropped dramatically. Students were much more successful
without the holiday breaking up their schedules. The high school district
tried to change the school schedule at all the district high schools to make
the semesters the same length, but was thwarted by the teachers union.
But they are going to try this again next year, with a shorter first
semester
and longer second semester at all the schools to see if they can repeat
that success.

  #5  
Old April 12th 04, 07:01 AM
animzmirot
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Default Homework over spring break (long)


"Iowacookiemom" wrote in message
...
I'll tell you honestly what I would do. I'd get on the Internet myself,

find
pages that answer the questions left, and print them off, highlighting the
answers. Then I'd help her fill in the missing blanks before school

tomorrow
morning.


This is EXACTLY what I would do, too. Why stress your kid out thinking she
didn't do enough, when she did way more than she SHOULD have, considering
she was in the country she's reporting on, and didn't get to have fun due to
a looming busywork assignment. I'd be furious myself.


I'd also tell the teacher what I did, and raise holy h*ll about the way

the
assignment was handled. At minimum, some sort of warning should have been
given to parents, or a few days grace provided at the end of the vacation.


Yeah, me too. I don't like when teachers spring surprises like that, and I
REALLY don't like that teachers don't respect vacation time. Some families
go places and do things that interfere with school assignments. There was no
opportunity given for optional work. I'd be in the teacher's face myself!


My mother lives in the north woods of Wisconsin and has spotty, dial-up,

webTV
internet access. Had we been in your shoes and spending Spring Break with

her,
we would have had a similarly difficult time completing the assignment.


Well, not respecting that this week was Passover, and that several of the
days were days when a Jewish child could not use the internet would set me
off, but that's just my issue. The fact that the teacher didn't even
consider this would set off my alarm bells, though.

Help your child be successful. She's already gone the extra mile.


I agree.

Marjorie


  #6  
Old April 12th 04, 02:34 PM
Scott
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

beeswing wrote: [snip]

Tbe thing that would bother me most about this would be the lack
of notice given to the parents. Of course, if it were DD, there
is the possibility that the notice got lost in transit.

I would go to the teacher, and to the principal if necessary,
asking why it was necessary that such an assignment was
given over a vacation when kids are supposed to get a
BREAK from school, hence the name Spring BREAK.

It reminds me of our friends who's son is in DD's grade,
but a different class. They fell waay behind in spelling
for some reason (the Dad of the Son says the teacher
isn't very organized) so for about two weeks, the son
had literally 1 hour of spelling homework EVERY
night! Dad finally went in and talked to the teacher.
All that spelling homework was interrupting the son's
reading time. Anyway, I'm wondering if your daughter's
teacher fell behind and was using the Break time to
catch up. Which would be most unfair.

DD and DS have today off as well, which I've always
thought was very nice. For people who travel
away for Easter, having Easter Monday off is a
nice day to recover.

scott DD 10.7 and DS 8

  #7  
Old April 12th 04, 03:38 PM
beeswing
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

Scott wrote:

The thing that would bother me most about this would be the lack
of notice given to the parents. Of course, if it were DD, there
is the possibility that the notice got lost in transit.


I don't think so. I think that the report was assigned only a few days (at
best) before the break. Where I failed is that I *should have* asked a week
ahead of time if there was going to be an assignment and if my daughter could
start on it early. I knew better.

I would go to the teacher, and to the principal if necessary,
asking why it was necessary that such an assignment was
given over a vacation when kids are supposed to get a
BREAK from school, hence the name Spring BREAK.


We've had this same teacher for three years now because she teaches a
blended-grade class. Unless things get stirred up, this is the last school
break my daughter will have with this particular teacher. I wrote a letter for
my daughter to take into the teacher in which I did raise the question of
giving enough time for kids to do assignments such as these so that break work
wouldn't be mandatory (someone here on mkm suggested I ask that, and I thought
it was a good idea). I don't know that I want to push the issue further than
that since we won't have this teacher in the future. If you were in my shoes,
would you push it, anyway?

It reminds me of our friends who's son is in DD's grade,
but a different class. They fell way behind in spelling
for some reason (the Dad of the Son says the teacher
isn't very organized) so for about two weeks, the son
had literally 1 hour of spelling homework EVERY
night! Dad finally went in and talked to the teacher.
All that spelling homework was interrupting the son's
reading time. Anyway, I'm wondering if your daughter's
teacher fell behind and was using the Break time to
catch up. Which would be most unfair.


No, the teacher does this consistently. Because of this, I should have
anticipated it and asked if there would be an assignment. On the other hand, I
was also hopeful that we'd finally get a homework-free break and didn't want to
rock the boat. We were so rushed preparing for the trip, Easter, and some
remodeling on our house (which starts today) that I was hesitant to borrow
trouble...I couldn't see how would we find time for homework before the trip,
anyway.

One thing that bothers me is the amount of time that is involved on these
projects. My daughter is in third grade. In theory, during school at least,
they are supposed to be receiving homework at a rate of 10 minutes per grade.
My daughter spent, on average, well over an hour to two hours a day on her trip
and most of the day yesterday working on this report. That's just how long it
took once you throw in dawdle time.

DD and DS have today off as well, which I've always
thought was very nice. For people who travel
away for Easter, having Easter Monday off is a
nice day to recover.


That's *very* nice. I wish our school did that.

Thanks for your comments!

beeswing




  #8  
Old April 12th 04, 03:40 PM
beeswing
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

Dawn wrote:

I'll tell you honestly what I would do. I'd get on the Internet myself, find
pages that answer the questions left, and print them off, highlighting the
answers. Then I'd help her fill in the missing blanks before school tomorrow
morning.


Basically, that's what I did. I found the coat of arms, a recipe for
quesadillas, the national anthem, and the national bird and printed them out.
(In all fairness, The Kid had already located some of the sites I used.) Our
daughter is bringing them to her before-and-after school program to plug in
this morning (she's very motivated to do so; she really wants to do a good,
complete job on this). Once she got up from her nap last night, she and I found
some of the details she lacked with regard to the population of the three
biggest cities and the size of the biggest and smallest states. And this
morning, her dad helped her find the information to fill in a couple of the
other lines.

She still will have all the self-evaluation questions at the end to fill out,
and I don't think she's going to be totally finished come 9 a.m. But she will
have made such an effort that I'm thinking the teacher will give her a break.
Even The Kid this morning felt encouraged by how much she had completed. I sent
her with a letter of explanation, just in case.

I'd also tell the teacher what I did, and raise holy h*ll about the way the
assignment was handled. At minimum, some sort of warning should have been
given to parents, or a few days grace provided at the end of the vacation.


They got the assignment a couple of days before the break, and this is typical
for this teacher so I probably should have asked in advance for it. That of
course would have given The Kid an unfair advantage timewise, so I don't know
that the teacher would have given it to me. The one thing that made the
assignment even harder was that yesterday was Easter Sunday, so the libraries
were closed...and that's the one day we otherwise could have gone to the
library to do research. That seems like poor planning on the teacher's part. I
don't know what we would have done if we didn't have an Internet connection
(and I doubt that all that many kids in our daughter's class do).

I would take the concern to the principal and the PTA. IMO it's time we
parents demand our family time back. Spring Vacation should be just that, a
vacation -- the only exception I would agree with would be a reading
assignment to keep kids up to speed on their reading skills.


I don't know if I want to push the issue because this is my daughter's last
"break" with this particular teacher. But I agree with you...I'd like to "take
back the break."

I'd have had no problem with the assignment if it had come two or three weeks
ahead of the break, with the due date after break, to allow families the
*option* of using Spring Break for project completion if their plans allowed
for that.


Thanks for that suggestion. I wrote it into the letter I sent the teacher
today.

Help your child be successful. She's already gone the extra mile.


We did, and she made incredible headway last night and this morning. We can't
help her fill out the self-evaluation questions, though. The teacher needs to
give her added time.

Thanks for alll your timely advice. I really appreciate it.

beeswing

  #9  
Old April 12th 04, 04:01 PM
beeswing
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

Marjorie wrote:

"Iowacookiemom" wrote in message
...


I'll tell you honestly what I would do. I'd get on the Internet myself,
find pages that answer the questions left, and print them off, highlighting
the answers. Then I'd help her fill in the missing blanks before school
tomorrow morning.


This is EXACTLY what I would do, too. Why stress your kid out thinking she
didn't do enough, when she did way more than she SHOULD have, considering
she was in the country she's reporting on, and didn't get to have fun due to
a looming busywork assignment. I'd be furious myself.


Isn't that *so* ironic? My kid wasn't out learning about Mexico because she was
inside her hotel room gleaning through a 30-year-old book, trying to find the
answers she needed to fill out a worksheet. You hit the nail right on the head;
that's exactly what made me the maddest.

Well, that and the fact that we'd spent precious vacation time and a fair
amount of money to fly down to Mexico for a week, only to be stuck in our hotel
room egging on our daughter to do her homework...

Yeah, me too. I don't like when teachers spring surprises like that, and I
REALLY don't like that teachers don't respect vacation time. Some families
go places and do things that interfere with school assignments. There was no
opportunity given for optional work. I'd be in the teacher's face myself!


I suppose it's my fault as well, though. I probably should have seen this
coming and asked the teacher in advance. I still think vacation time should be
respected. Kids need a break as much as anyone else

Well, not respecting that this week was Passover, and that several of the
days were days when a Jewish child could not use the internet would set me
off, but that's just my issue. The fact that the teacher didn't even
consider this would set off my alarm bells, though.


You're right; she should have thought about it and respected it. In all
fairness , because of the demographics of the school, I don't think it would
have been an issue for any of the kids in the class. For many of those
families, though, Easter is a huge holiday...and if nothing else, the public
library is closed.

Help your child be successful. She's already gone the extra mile.


I agree.


We did. Things are looking up, this morning. Thanks so much for your comments.

beeswing

  #10  
Old April 12th 04, 04:42 PM
Robyn Kozierok
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Default Homework over spring break (long)

In article ,
animzmirot wrote:

Well, not respecting that this week was Passover, and that several of the
days were days when a Jewish child could not use the internet would set me
off, but that's just my issue. The fact that the teacher didn't even
consider this would set off my alarm bells, though.


What kind of alarm bells? I'd certainly chalk something like that up
to ignorance rather than malice. I don't think most people, teachers
included, have any clue that traditional Jews would not be allowed to
use computers/internet on a Holy day. Part of this is because of the
diversity of Jewish people they come into contact with, many of whom do
not follow the rules as strictly. So they end up thinking, well,
little Noah did X, Y and Z and he's Jewish, so Jews must be allowed to
do X, Y and Z. There are Jewish children in my children's school who
do not follow the passover dietary rules as strictly as we do, and
there are still others (none in our school, though), who follow them
more strictly. Teachers get a small and possibly unrepresentative
sample set from which they often draw faulty conclusions. I consider
it my responsibility to educate my children's teachers about religious
issues that might impact their schoolwork (and attendance).

Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
--
"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to
work hard at work worth doing." -- Theodore Roosevelt

 




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