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Kids are Worth It



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 21st 05, 12:37 AM
beeswing
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Claire Petersky wrote:

I know I'm rather the opposite from many parents on this, but I never

tell
my kids that life isn't fair.


I don't either, but it's because my mother always said it and it drove
me crazy. I won't use it on my kid.

I wonder if we run into less of the "life's not fair" bit than some
because we have an only child. I mean, it *does* come up, but not very
frequently. And when it does, it never works.

beeswing

  #32  
Old May 21st 05, 07:29 PM
Sidheag McCormack
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Rosalie B writes:

I had arranged for my daughter to be taken to pre-school by another mom,
and then I picked both children up. I lived a fair way up the road from
her, so I'd take my child to her house in the morning.


Quite near the end of the year, I discovered that the other mom got the
pre-school teacher to drop by her house and pick the children up and she
never did any driving at all. So I saw that I had the choice between a)
making myself a free taxi service for this other mom b) refusing to pick
her son up at school and looking like I was mean-spirited c) taking my
daughter out of pre-school. I did C. She moaned and complained. Her
reason for not doing any driving was that she had a baby, but so did I


Let me see if I understand this. You took your daughter out of pre-school,
not because it wasn't suiting you or your daughter, not because you were
having to do more work than you'd expected, but simply because someone else
was doing *less* work than you'd expected?

This does not sound rational to me.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003


  #33  
Old May 21st 05, 09:31 PM
Rosalie B.
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Sidheag McCormack wrote:

Rosalie B writes:

I had arranged for my daughter to be taken to pre-school by another mom,
and then I picked both children up. I lived a fair way up the road from
her, so I'd take my child to her house in the morning.


Quite near the end of the year, I discovered that the other mom got the
pre-school teacher to drop by her house and pick the children up and she
never did any driving at all. So I saw that I had the choice between a)
making myself a free taxi service for this other mom b) refusing to pick
her son up at school and looking like I was mean-spirited c) taking my
daughter out of pre-school. I did C. She moaned and complained. Her
reason for not doing any driving was that she had a baby, but so did I


Let me see if I understand this. You took your daughter out of pre-school,
not because it wasn't suiting you or your daughter, not because you were
having to do more work than you'd expected, but simply because someone else
was doing *less* work than you'd expected?

This does not sound rational to me.

It probably wasn't. Emotions are often not rational.

I didn't think my daughter really needed to be in school anymore. She
did not seem to care whether she went or not. I didn't care much for
the child that I was driving, and I don't think she did either. He
was big for his age but not very mature (somewhat whinny) and she was
tiny for her age and very self contained.

I put her in there so she would have some kids to play with. We
didn't have or I didn't know about anything like play groups. I lived
way out in the country - I could only see one other house from my
house.

It was within about a month of the end of the school year and she
would have two older sisters to play with when school was out and a
younger brother. So I didn't think that it was necessary for her and
it definitely didn't suit ME to drive 20 miles (each way) four times a
day with a young baby.

So yes - I was angry because this mom got to stay in her house with
her baby (same age as mine) and didn't have to get two kids suited up
in outdoor clothing twice a day all winter in RI.

Also partly at the teacher because she came right by my house and
didn't suggest that she could pick up my daughter at my house or
indicate in any way that she had been doing the driving. Suppose she
had an accident? I would have been totally unaware that my daughter
habitually rode in her car. (In those days there were no car seats so
this probably couldn't happen now.)

But mostly that this other mother had suckered me into doing all the
driving without any additional compensation in it for me or my
daughter. She never offered to pay (not that I would have taken it).
She didn't seem at all grateful. She seemed totally unconscious that
it would be just as much trouble for me to drive with a baby as it was
for her. It was all about her, her, her.

So I wanted to get even, and I did it (after talking to the teacher
about it - she had been unaware that I didn't know she was driving,
and I didn't want to impact the bottom line of the school). And I'm
not sorry. I do hold a grudge. I'm still mad.


grandma Rosalie

  #34  
Old May 24th 05, 06:57 PM
Robyn Kozierok
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In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

btw, the car seat thing wasn't meant as a huge problem I needed solved,
just a day to day instance of things I want my young child to do that
he doesn't necessarily want to do, and where the natural (rather than
logical) consequences don't matter to him. Cases where I might tend
to use bribes or more "punitive" consequences.

Maybe another thing to consider is whether someone else could pick up
the siblings at school. Or whether they could come home on the bus,
or go to after school care or something other way to handle it.


I must not be communicating clearly here. This is not a regular issue.
Occasionally, the kid wants to fool around instead of getting into his
carseat, and it is a situation that doesn't seem to fit neatly into
the "Kids are Worth It" paradigm. There are lots of other little things
that come up occasionally, where I want/need one of my kids to do something
that has no intrinsic benefit the them. This was only one example.

Sometimes we get so close to things that we tend to not see other
possibilities - so the above suggestions probably will not apply to
you, but are meant to get you thinking out of the box.


And again, I wasn't looking for advice on approaching a particular
situation, but rather wondering whether others who have read the
book in question felt there was a good way to apply it to a situation
of that type.

In any case, thanks for your thoughts,
--Robyn

..

  #35  
Old May 25th 05, 06:01 AM
Marion Baumgarten
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Although I did use some of How to Talk so your Kids Will Listen- I did (and
still do ) try to use logical consequences, I must be the last parent on
earth who told my kids they had to do what I said because it was their job
to obey me. (I must give some credit to Raising Good Children by Thomas
Lickona for the idea). I didn't threaten them, but it was explained that Mom
and Dad's job was to keep them safe and do what is good for the family. We
would talk about rules and why Mom and Dad have them.Do this ahead of time
or later in the day after the incident. When they were little and I need
them to follow me- I would say "Ducklings" and they would (most of the
time!) follow me like the ducks in Make Way for Ducklings.So do now, grieve
later. I try to seriously listen to objections and see what we can do better
next time- but when I say come here or get on the car- then I expect you to
do it. Now and 13 and 16 it is different- and my children (especially the 16
year old) have a lot of freedom and I very seldom have to give an "order".

We are a religious family and my husband and I talk about how every one is
subject to some kind of authority. (Kids often think that adults get to do
whatever they want). At work, we have bosses. Ultimately we have to answer
to God.-right now God has given you teachers and parents to help you grow
up. A good example that my kids related very well to was a tomato plant (we
garden). Rules are the stakes and help the plant grow up tall and produce
fruit. Without the stakes, the plant flops everywhere and the fruit gets
rotten on the ground.

Marion Betor Baumgarten
mother to die Wunderkinder

  #36  
Old May 25th 05, 11:30 PM
dragonlady
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In article . net,
"Marion Baumgarten" wrote:

Although I did use some of How to Talk so your Kids Will Listen- I did (and
still do ) try to use logical consequences, I must be the last parent on
earth who told my kids they had to do what I said because it was their job
to obey me.


I never used that particular phrase, but, when they didn't like the
rational I used for a particular rule, I did resort to, "Because I'm the
Mom and I said so."

Which is pretty much the same thing . . .

It's a phrase I swore I'd never use, but one of mine never met a reason
she didn't want to argue about. It was either find a way to say
"because I said so" or spend 20 hours a day trying to explain to a 3 yo
WHY she had to stay in her car seat.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #37  
Old May 28th 05, 05:20 PM
Claire Petersky
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Marion Baumgarten wrote in message
. net...

We are a religious family and my husband and I talk about how every one is
subject to some kind of authority. (Kids often think that adults get to do
whatever they want). At work, we have bosses. Ultimately we have to answer
to God.-right now God has given you teachers and parents to help you grow
up. A good example that my kids related very well to was a tomato plant (we
garden). Rules are the stakes and help the plant grow up tall and produce
fruit. Without the stakes, the plant flops everywhere and the fruit gets
rotten on the ground.


I'll throw out there that it seems like my husband and I, without being
conscious about it, seem to be teaching our children to be questioning
authority, rather than obeying it. My husband in particular is prone to
making outrageous statements and then waiting for the kids to challenge what
he's said. I think he does this in part because his dad did it too -- when
we visit our in-laws, I hear my FIL doing the same thing with the grandkids.

A few years back, we were at the mall at Zoopa's, a salad bar type
restaurant. One of my daughters asked where they got all the vegetables for
the salad bar. My husband told them that they sent their staff over to the
supermarket across the street and had them shoplift it. My kids initially
gave some credence to the story, but after some question and answer soon
realized that this was totally bogus, and called him on it. I confirmed that
they were right about that being a complete and totally made up explanation,
and told them that the real way they got the vegetables is that they grew
them on the roof of the mall. I went into a long story about the utility of
sod roofs and how they are expensive, but good for the environment, and how
they were putting sod roofs on more and more buildings (all of this, of
course, true). I then mentioned that the owner of this particular mall was
so concerned about the environment, and that's why this mall had a sod roof,
and...my older daughter immediately realized that I blowing smoke. She has
heard me in the past rant about the mall owner and what a jerk he is on
environmental issues (among many others). Through questions and answers we
reviewed what I said and decided what was true, and what wasn't. At this
point, I think either me or my husband took pity on them and explained how
deliveries were made at the mall, and how Zoopa's gets its vegetables for
the salad bar. If we had been super parents, we would have even shown them
the mall loading dock on our way out, but we didn't think of it.

I can see what you mean about the tomato stakes, Marion, but I'm afraid some
people tie themselves to stakes that won't truly support their development.
I want my kids to test what authorities say with their hearts and their
minds, and realize when they are giving them that which has strayed from the
truth. There's also times when authorities have a lot of truth in what they
are saying, too, but there's bits and pieces that just aren't correct, and
you have to be able to pick out the nuggest from the mud, sometimes.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referr*al/Cpetersky


  #38  
Old May 29th 05, 01:03 AM
Hillary Israeli
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In ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

*It may be that all you have to do is come to the problem time/area as
*rested as possible. If this means letting things go in the house or
*something, then do that until he learns that you ARE stronger than he
*is and you WILL have energy available.

That's assuming, of course, that you ARE stronger than the child. Frankly
that's a big assumption. I mean, I'm no weakling. I can lift a Rottweiler
onto an examination table by myself if I have to. But if my 4.5 year old
refused to get into his booster seat, I'd be screwed.


--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx



  #39  
Old June 8th 05, 05:06 PM
Jayne Ashworth
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You may want to talk with other parents who have teens who
have begun to drive in the last year or so: their experiences
may open your eyes. Ones that I remember we negotiated when
DD was learning (and yes, there are a ton, and yes, she was a
really responsible teen, but still: cars can be lethal and
new drivers are sometimes overwhelmed with the multitude of
details that need attention on the road):

pick a radio station before putting the car
into motion and do not change it unless you are
stopped

call anytime for a ride, no repercussions

plan your route before you leave - know where
turns will be, which streets are one-way, etc.

call if you will be late (and this was before cell phones!)

passenger rules:

no passengers for six months

no more than one passenger after six months
(at some time we relaxed this rule to two passengers,
but I think it was after a year; high school rules became
null-and-void when she went to college - no car there,
but when she was home and had occasion to drive, the
rules just seemed not needed ...)

no riding with someone who has less than six
months driving experience

no riding with someone who has more than six
months but less than a year's driving experience
who has other passengers

no riding with someone who has less than two year's
experience and more than two passengers (herself
included)

no driving someone who is drunk (I like designated
drivers, but feel that drunks can do irresponsible
things that can cause even a sober driver to
wreck)

Did she always obey all the rules, especially the
passenger ones? I doubt it, but she knew what they
were and why we had them.

She did an enormous amount of driving before obtaining
her permit but when she first obtained her license
(after driving daily for four months) she was still
inexperienced.

YMMV

Jayne

  #40  
Old June 8th 05, 05:07 PM
Jayne Ashworth
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Having family communication codes is a GREAT idea.
With my DD, we had codes for "please come give me a ride
home now but don't ask me why, just do it" and for "I've
been invited to stay but want to leave so say no when I
ask if I can stay." We also had a code that had to be
given for someone other than the expected person to
give her a ride: no code, no go. That code existed
when she was very small and changed each time it was
used (to keep it new, and unique to us); the others came
later.

Jayne

 




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