MMR scare doctor faces list of charges

cathyb wrote:
Clinton wrote:
cathyb wrote:
john wrote:
the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel
http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html

Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then?


There is no evidence that this person commited fraud. People draw
incorrect conclusions all the time, even so I suppose some kids
could have had measles vaccine even if it wasn't connected to
autism and a link may still be proven to exist.

Putting this person on trial like that is an abuse of power by
the medical authorities. Gee lets throw everyone who does research
we don't agree with in jail for fraud or use the medical boards to
sue them into oblivion. Thats a police state, not
the freeflow of science regardless of what the final conclusions
regarding. And the only reason they get away with it is because
the public is asleep.

This is what you conformists don't get. The power that be don't
get to harass and sue, and throw people in jail just becuause they
think they are wrong, becuause then the "power that be"
would have to God and always be right.

Mark Probert wrote:
Clinton wrote:
cathyb wrote:

john wrote:

the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel
http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html

Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then?

And the article you link says:



Every darn post you make is pro-industry pro- ADA status quo-
Pro- "powers that be"

Don't you have anything better to do than being a professional
lackey.

I am truly sad that you cannot handle the truth that one of the heroes
of the anti-vac liars is about to get officially roasted for actions

I'm more worried that certain people with generic sounding names
constantly pop up to criticize anyone who questions "the system",
whether its this or other issues. not that it will affect me
personally, i'm not really from the alt-med scene.

that, if done by an employee of the FDA would cause you and your ilk to
post a gadzillion lines of diatribe about how unethical the FDA is.

Acutally the FDA gets sued all the time. All the time.

Clinton wrote:

cathyb wrote:
Clinton wrote:
cathyb wrote:
john wrote:
the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel
http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html

Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then?


There is no evidence that this person commited fraud. People draw
incorrect conclusions all the time, even so I suppose some kids
could have had measles vaccine even if it wasn't connected to
autism and a link may still be proven to exist.

Putting this person on trial like that is an abuse of power by
the medical authorities. Gee lets throw everyone who does research
we don't agree with in jail for fraud or use the medical boards to
sue them into oblivion. Thats a police state, not
the freeflow of science regardless of what the final conclusions
regarding. And the only reason they get away with it is because
the public is asleep.

This is what you conformists don't get. The power that be don't
get to harass and sue, and throw people in jail just becuause they
think they are wrong, becuause then the "power that be"
would have to God and always be right.

This person's research is being looked at primarily because he caused a
huge public health scare, which certainly was a cause in vaccination
rates dropping, and may therefore have been a factor in subsequent
measles and mumps outbreaks.

From the Times article:

"In the original Lancet paper, the only evidence against MMR were
statements by the parents of eight children who linked the vaccine with
autism. The GMC is now trying to establish how many of them were
lawyers' clients."

The Lancet itself has repudiated the research, as have Wakefield's
co-authors. It would appear that he was working with lawyers who were
trying to sue MMR manufacturers at the time of the research.

We 'conformists' would prefer that affairs like Vioxx and this
Wakefield controversy couldn't happen because of better regulation in
research and publication. If you're quite happy for fraud and
scientific dishonesty to go unheeded, then enjoy living with the
results.

Cathy

"Clinton" wrote in message
oups.com...

cathyb wrote:
Clinton wrote:
cathyb wrote:
john wrote:
the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel
http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html

Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then?


There is no evidence that this person commited fraud. People draw
incorrect conclusions all the time, even so I suppose some kids
could have had measles vaccine even if it wasn't connected to
autism and a link may still be proven to exist.

Putting this person on trial like that is an abuse of power by
the medical authorities. Gee lets throw everyone who does research
we don't agree with

Doing lumbar punctures on children who can derive no benefit from them is
beyond unethical; it is criminal.


in jail for fraud or use the medical boards to
sue them into oblivion. Thats a police state, not
the freeflow of science regardless of what the final conclusions
regarding. And the only reason they get away with it is because
the public is asleep.

It's a good thing that the public is awake enough to prevent this monster
from harming any more children.



This is what you conformists don't get. The power that be don't
get to harass and sue, and throw people in jail just becuause they
think they are wrong, becuause then the "power that be"
would have to God and always be right.

The "powers that be", are, as the plaintif line in a criminal indictment
shows, "the people". Certainly "the people" do have the right to determine
what is right or wrong.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

JohnDoe wrote:
Clinton wrote:
and accepting all information with reasoned skeptiscim,

that would be '*approach* all information'. What use is skepticism if
you accept all information anyway, as you here admit doing.

that's is not what i said.
ARe you a real person or a Pr firm?

and not swapping anyonmous psuedonems and equating accepting "what everyone else says"
with socratic level wisdom....

Wow, you're so ticked off by my insignificant little post you haven't
checked your spelling or your coherence. Damn I'm good!


More likely I didn't think it was worth my time.

, but really, post after post after post
from Cathy mike, bill, Jane etc with the "they must be right" message
and I'm about to puke so enough of this.

Ah, psychosomatic puking disorder. You really should focus your Chi on
more positive things.

I'm not from the alt-med scene, your so used to slapping convenient
labels on people you don't know when to stop.


I hope for your guys sake that your doing it for the money

What money? Where?

okay, checks, direct deposit, frequent flyier miles, free passes
to hershy park,

Clinton wrote:

JohnDoe wrote:
Clinton wrote:
and accepting all information with reasoned skeptiscim,

that would be '*approach* all information'. What use is skepticism if
you accept all information anyway, as you here admit doing.

that's is not what i said.
ARe you a real person or a Pr firm?

and not swapping anyonmous psuedonems and equating accepting "what everyone else says"
with socratic level wisdom....

Wow, you're so ticked off by my insignificant little post you haven't
checked your spelling or your coherence. Damn I'm good!


More likely I didn't think it was worth my time.

, but really, post after post after post
from Cathy mike, bill, Jane etc with the "they must be right" message
and I'm about to puke so enough of this.

Ah, psychosomatic puking disorder. You really should focus your Chi on
more positive things.

I'm not from the alt-med scene, your so used to slapping convenient
labels on people you don't know when to stop.


I hope for your guys sake that your doing it for the money

What money? Where?

okay, checks, direct deposit, frequent flyier miles, free passes
to hershy park,

Ooh, c'n I have some?!

PS What and where is 'hershy park'?

Rich wrote:
"Clinton" wrote in message
oups.com...


Doing lumbar punctures on children who can derive no benefit from them is
beyond unethical; it is criminal.

It seems the bulk of the "accusations" are "political" charges
of conflict of interest which as already pointed out could be
leveled at any doctor doing research or working for the government.
And suppose a link was or is found. He would be hero.

I have no idea what a lumbar puncture is so I don't know if this
and other tests done on the children, were ethical or not.

Clinton wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:

Clinton wrote:

cathyb wrote:


john wrote:


the Medical cartel chief media smearer with more drivel
http://www.whale.to/a/wakefield.html

Oh, no actual refutation of the facts given in the article, then?

And the article you link says:



Every darn post you make is pro-industry pro- ADA status quo-
Pro- "powers that be"

Don't you have anything better to do than being a professional
lackey.

I am truly sad that you cannot handle the truth that one of the heroes
of the anti-vac liars is about to get officially roasted for actions


I'm more worried that certain people with generic sounding names
constantly pop up to criticize anyone who questions "the system",
whether its this or other issues. not that it will affect me
personally, i'm not really from the alt-med scene.

Generic sounding names? Bowditch, Probert, Wright, Thorson, RichX2????



that, if done by an employee of the FDA would cause you and your ilk to
post a gadzillion lines of diatribe about how unethical the FDA is.


Acutally the FDA gets sued all the time. All the time.

Nod, and that is my point.

cathyb wrote:
This person's research is being looked at primarily because he caused a
huge public health scare, which certainly was a cause in vaccination
rates dropping, and may therefore have been a factor in subsequent
measles and mumps outbreaks.

And that is the point. That is not a valid reason for doing whatever
the medical powers are doing. That is what conformism means, you
act according to whether an action is going to "rock the boat",
not based on its own merits. In fact under such a system leaps
forward are less likely to be made because no one wants to take risk
and be the nail sticking up which gets pounded down by the hammer.

We 'conformists' would prefer that affairs like Vioxx and this
Wakefield controversy couldn't happen because of better regulation in
research and publication. If you're quite happy for fraud and
scientific dishonesty to go unheeded, then enjoy living with the
results.

If your definition of "fraud" is getting funding and having that
source of funding be biased the entire federal government is
guitly of fraud and should be thrown in jail (even though I
think this happened in britian). That goes for the politicians
too and most private doctors who conduct "fraudulent" and "biased",
"funded" research for industry.

cathyb wrote:
Clinton wrote:
okay, checks, direct deposit, frequent flyier miles, free passes
to hershy park,

Ooh, c'n I have some?!

PS What and where is 'hershy park'?

In the US it's an amusement park like disneyland, but on
a much smaller scale. it must be funded by the Hershy candy company
because they call it "Hershy park", unfortunately they don't
have rivers of choclate and tons of free candy, (or a free tour
of a chocolate factory). just stuff like roller coasters and bumper
cars.