Illinois post-secondary education

"Gypsy0005" wrote in message
...
I hardly consider 23 states *very few*.


An attorney I spoke to last week who is very well known in this arena said
he
believed it was 9 states left that order post secondary education support.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/cyf/educate.htm provides the state by state
details. Note the number of states that show no authority to order college
support in the absence of an agreement. If an agreement was reach prior to
the law being changed, the parents are being held to the prior agreement.

Regardless of the number that is left, even 1 is far too many. It is an
issue
that flies in the face of justice. When you take only one segment of the
population and force them to do something no one else does then you are
violating their rights.

The State Supreme Court in my state rejected this argument. They "reasoned"
divorced fathers are not a special class so equal protection guarantees do
not apply, the state's interest in an educated populace is a priority, and
the state legislature has the ability to create laws using their recognition
of a rational basis as the need for the laws. It's BS based on the trend in
other states, but that's essentially what the supreme's in my state said.

In NJ only divorced non custodial parents (mostly
fathers) are FORCED to pay towards college AND contribute child support
for an
ADULT child.

In Oregon, only NCP parents can be ordered to provide CS for adult children
attending school. We have case law stating the only way the CP can be
required to provide college support is for the child to hire an attorney,
successfully "join" the case, and get a separate CS order against the CP.
That's BS too because by operation of law the child is already a party to
the case.

If you want to argue that all children are entitled to a college education
AND
living expenses while they are in college then so be it, but until this is
a
right afforded all children it is just plain wrong!

The Attorney General in my state tried the argument that married parents
could be required to pay college expenses for adult children. The Supreme's
told him he was full of it!

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

I see it as a shame that any parent has to be forced to help thier
children
attain an education.

So do I, especially when they can't really afford it.


I pitty the parents that don't help, when they have the means to help. I
bet it
will be awfully lonely in that nursing home in their golden years.

With all due respect, but a person shouldn't hold a grudge against their
parents like that. It would be a real sad world to live in when adult
children act like that. Some "adult" children expect their parents to be
walking wallets. It is not only NCPs or CPs. This type of attitude happens
in intact families too. A parent having choices, and options, is not
unreasonable.

Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

gudgye wrote:

You are wrong, MrsIndy...

Where did I say ALL?


No state orders parent-paid college education for ALL children.

And that is the problem.

Until the day comes when the state orders ALL children to go to college and
ALL
parents to pay for post-secondary education, I don't believe ANY parent
should
be compelled to pay for post-secondary education, divorced or otherwise.


The stats tell us the vast majority of parents in intact families do help with
college expenses, without the need of a court order. The stats also tell us
less than 20% of NCPs help with college support. Perhaps if divorced parents
did so on their own, more often, the need for a CO wouldn't be necessary. And
let's not bother with the *but divorced parents can't afford it like together
parents can*. All most have to do is continue paying the support they paid all
along, only now to the school or directlt to the child.

Mrs Indyguy
Gud


In article ,
(Indyguy1) writes:

Three states don't require any college support but order support till the
age
of 21.
Two order CS till 19, regardless if they are in school or not.

Eighteen states still can and do order support for most majority children
that
are furthering their education.

I hardly consider 23 states *very few*.


Mrs Indyguy

Indyguy1 wrote:
The stats tell us the vast majority of parents in intact families do
help with college expenses, without the need of a court order.

That's great, but nobody is telling them that they must. That's the
difference.

The
stats also tell us less than 20% of NCPs help with college support.
Perhaps if divorced parents did so on their own, more often, the need
for a CO wouldn't be necessary.

If it's really and truly a "need", then all parents would be told to do
so, and college would be compulsary.

And let's not bother with the *but
divorced parents can't afford it like together parents can*. All most
have to do is continue paying the support they paid all along, only
now to the school or directlt to the child.

--
Q. Why do Hell's Angels wear leather?
A. Because chiffon wrinkles too easily.
~ Paul Lynde, on Hollywood Squares

I'm curious, perhaps I'm the only one who hasn't read them but *what* stats
tell us that the "vast majority" of intact parents help with their
children's college expenses and only 20% of NCPs help?
It seems to me that if there are, as you claim, 23 states that order NCPs to
continue C$ beyond high school, that alone would be WAYYYY over 20% not
counting those in the other states who help regardless there being no order.
Something smells fishy.
Phil #3

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...
gudgye wrote:

You are wrong, MrsIndy...

Where did I say ALL?


No state orders parent-paid college education for ALL children.

And that is the problem.

Until the day comes when the state orders ALL children to go to college
and
ALL
parents to pay for post-secondary education, I don't believe ANY parent
should
be compelled to pay for post-secondary education, divorced or otherwise.


The stats tell us the vast majority of parents in intact families do help
with
college expenses, without the need of a court order. The stats also tell
us
less than 20% of NCPs help with college support. Perhaps if divorced
parents
did so on their own, more often, the need for a CO wouldn't be necessary.
And
let's not bother with the *but divorced parents can't afford it like
together
parents can*. All most have to do is continue paying the support they paid
all
along, only now to the school or directlt to the child.

Mrs Indyguy
Gud


In article ,

(Indyguy1) writes:

Three states don't require any college support but order support till the
age
of 21.
Two order CS till 19, regardless if they are in school or not.

Eighteen states still can and do order support for most majority children
that
are furthering their education.

I hardly consider 23 states *very few*.


Mrs Indyguy

Phil wrote:

I'm curious, perhaps I'm the only one who hasn't read them but *what* stats
tell us that the "vast majority" of intact parents help with their
children's college expenses and only 20% of NCPs help?

They were posted on this very ng awhile back.

It seems to me that if there are, as you claim, 23 states that order NCPs to
continue C$ beyond high school,

18 actually have the abilty to order post majority support. The other 5 either
have CS till 19 or 21. I beleive I broke it down for gypsy.

that alone would be WAYYYY over 20% not
counting those in the other states who help regardless there being no order.

I'd bet many people never pursue the post majority support. I would have to
assume that some CPs just don't care, some don't know about it, some can afford
the college help on their own or with a new spouse, others may feel since the
money doesn't go to them they won't bother.

Something smells fishy.

Hey, *I* didn't post the stats someone else did!

Mrs Indyguy

Phil #3

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...
gudgye wrote:

You are wrong, MrsIndy...

Where did I say ALL?


No state orders parent-paid college education for ALL children.

Gudgye wrote:

It's lonely for a lot of parents in nursing homes even today, and I'll betcha
some of those parents stuck in those homes are ones who DID pay for their
kids'
college educations...

I don't doubt that. I just know that people in general are more willing to be
there for people who were there for them.

Mrs Indyguy


In article ,
(Indyguy1) writes:

I pitty the parents that don't help, when they have the means to help. I bet
it
will be awfully lonely in that nursing home in their golden years.

Mrs Indyguy

Paul wrote:

"GudGye11" wrote in message
...
It's lonely for a lot of parents in nursing homes even today, and I'll
betcha
some of those parents stuck in those homes are ones who DID pay for their
kids'
college educations...


How arrogant

Arrogance? No. Reailty? Yes.

to think that concern about one's parents is tied to whether
they paid for college tuition.........spoken like a true liebral.

Depends on the individual circumstance. For some NCPs refusing to help with
college expenses, when it is afordable, can be the final nail in the coffin for
the parent child relationship.

Mrs Indyguy



In article ,

(Indyguy1) writes:

I pitty the parents that don't help, when they have the means to help. I
bet
it
will be awfully lonely in that nursing home in their golden years.

Mrs Indyguy

Tha Dave wrote:

Indyguy1 wrote:
The stats tell us the vast majority of parents in intact families do
help with college expenses, without the need of a court order.

That's great, but nobody is telling them that they must. That's the
difference.

I would think one's common sense would tell them, in this day and age, some
form of post secondary education is pretty much necessary for any kind of
advancement in a career.


The
stats also tell us less than 20% of NCPs help with college support.
Perhaps if divorced parents did so on their own, more often, the need
for a CO wouldn't be necessary.

If it's really and truly a "need", then all parents would be told to do
so, and college would be compulsary.

I don't know about you, but I certainly want my children to have more in life
than just their needs met.

Mrs Indyguy

And let's not bother with the *but
divorced parents can't afford it like together parents can*. All most
have to do is continue paying the support they paid all along, only
now to the school or directlt to the child.

--
Q. Why do Hell's Angels wear leather?
A. Because chiffon wrinkles too easily.
~ Paul Lynde, on Hollywood Squares

Tracy wrote:


"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

I see it as a shame that any parent has to be forced to help thier
children
attain an education.

So do I, especially when they can't really afford it.

If someone earns very little their EFC will be low or non existent. For those
that earn middle of the road there are PLUS loans.



I pitty the parents that don't help, when they have the means to help. I
bet it
will be awfully lonely in that nursing home in their golden years.

With all due respect, but a person shouldn't hold a grudge against their
parents like that. It would be a real sad world to live in when adult
children act like that.

Depends on the circumstances. If your parent left, remarried, paid for all his
*new* children to go to college, but told you no way, just how would you feel
when they were old and ill and since their 2nd wife and her kids had no time
for him so he called you? This happened to a friend of mine. She wished her
father well and suggeted he calls his 2nd wife's children since he was there
for them and not her.

I don't think she was bitter. I think she was there for her father as much as
he was there for her.

Some "adult" children expect their parents to be
walking wallets. It is not only NCPs or CPs. This type of attitude happens
in intact families too.

This type exists, but they aren't who we are talking about.

A parent having choices, and options, is not
unreasonable.

Gee silly me. I always thought most parents, when given the choice or option,
would like to see their children succeed in life

Mrs Indyguy.

Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/