Has anyone ever tried these?

Marie,

Thanks for your responses. I will try to trim so that I am addressing only
my original questions and your responses.

Marie writes:

: "Larry McMahan" wrote in message
: ...

: OK. if they are not latching well, then you must be pumping. What is
: your
: nursing and pumping schedule. I think you are taking enough herbals, so
: that
: if you are recieving adequate nursign stimulation you should be producing
: adequate milk.

: Whenever possible, I pump at least 20 minutes every 2 hours. However, if
: the boys and I are alone, and they're needing my attention, I sometimes have
: to skip a pump.

This sounds good.

:
: How well do they latch, if at all?

: Not at all, though we're still trying to teach them.

How are you trying to teach them? I had a son who was born at 31 weeks
weighing 4 lbs. (but not twins!) He was fed by tube in the hospital,
and we transitioned him directly to the breast. We made sure he never
recieved a bottle to avoid nipple confustion, and it worked. Obviously,
your babies have already recieved bottles, so you don't have the option
of avoiding the nipple confuation entirely. You have to do what you
need to have them 'unlearn' their bad habits if you want to get them
back to the breast. Honestly, this will be much harder, both phycially
and emotionally.

:Do you pump? Do you feed : them EBM?

: They each feed about every two-three hours, I pump as often as possible,
: they get all the EBM I can produce (about half to 2/3 of what they need)

This is pretty good for exclusive pumping with twins. This kind of
productions gives me some hope that with direct nursing stimulation you
could produce enough to feed them exclusively.

:Do you use a lact-aid or SNS?

: I tried tube feeding--it worked with finger-feeding but took about an hour
: for each feeding. When we tried it with the breast, they couldn't get *any*
: suction and got nothing from the breast or the tube.

:Do you feed by bottle? (If so, get rid of it.)

: And how do my babies eat if I do?

I am combining by last two questions and your responses to them, because
I am going to answer them together.

Now lets get down to your question of how do your babies eat if you get rid
of the bottle, since this is the crux of your problem.

The first thing you have to do is to train your babies off of the bottle
nipple, and onto the breast nipple while ensuring that they contine to
get sustenance. Honestly, this will be the hard part. If you thought that
pumping every two hours was work, then for at least the first couple of
weeks, this will be twice the work or more, because having become accustomed
to "lazy feeding" your twins will object vociferously to a change, and will
acquiece only when you insist. This is the key.

The first thing you need to do is discontinue the bottles, and switch to an
artificial feeding method that simulates nursing. This means a Lact-Aid or
SNS. The thing you have to do to make this work is have faith in both your
babies and yourself that you will be able to feed them this way, and that
they will not starve if you make this change. At first, when you try to make
the change, the babies will find the new feeding method enough harder that
they will refuse to feed that way. But they will not starve. When they get
hungry enough they will relent and use the method if you insist. If you want
to successfully get them back to the breast, there is often no other way.
You are going to have to put up with a lot of crying for a day or two, but it
is often the only way to retrain. You may need help from an LC to show you
how to get food down them using the SNS or Lact-Aid.

Once you have successfully gotten them onto the SNS or Lact-Aid, then you
can start trying to do direct nursing. At this point, the direct nursing is
not really more difficult than what they are doing, and it will be easier
to train them to suckle. Once they learn to nurse directly, then you can
start increasing nursign sessions and decreasing pumping sessions.

One additional suggestion for when you start direct nursing. You should
pump or express just until you start a let down, then place the babies on
the breast. Since they are used to "easy flow" this will help the know
that milk will come out of the breast. After you have done this a couple
of times, and they know to associate the breast with milk, then you can
start putting them on the breast before let-down.

: Now for some other ralated suggestions to increase your supply.
:
: 1. Drink plenty of water. Normally this would mean at least 12 oz (350
: ml)
: every 2 hours. Keep a sports bottle by your bed at night. With twins,
: you
: may want to drink more.

: Does it have to be water or does fruitjuice, pop, etc. count?

Water is best, but some fruit juice is OK. You should NOT drink caffinated
beverages.

: 2. Get plenty of rest. Especially with twins! Nap whenever they do.

: About once a week, if I'm lucky, they nap at the same time :-}

In that case, when even one of them naps, then lie down with both, and
get cuddle time with the one that is awake.

: Don't do housework, errands, or cook. Let Dh do it all, of if you can,
: hire help.

: We have some help, but not enough.

Then just let things go.

: Spend a much time in bed with the twins as possible. Lot's of skin to
: skin
: contact, lots of nursing.
: 3. Nurse as often as possible. Even if it is only comfort nursing.

: Is it better to do it together or individually? Right now, I try and use it
: as one-on-one time.

Hmmm. I would suggest together as much as possible. See nap suggestion above.

Good luck,
hope this helps,
Larry

"Marie" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...

"Jolene" wrote in message
link.net...
Did they ever latch?

Nope :-( But in the past few weeks (since their due date) we've seen more
rooting reflex than before. I give them each time at the breast whenever
possible, and they've both started to suck a bit, but so far there's no
real
suction there. I'm not giving up, but the latest LC told me to come to
terms with the idea they may never bf properly.

Marie

Has anyone ever mentioned using a supplementer?

Sue wrote:
She must have sent in for help when I was on vacation. Sorry. I thought this
was her first post on the subject. However, I still thought some of the
replies were rude. At least she is breastfeeding, maybe not from the tap,
but it is breastmilk. Let us not lose site of what exactly is important.
Lots of people pump exclusively, including Richard and no one ever said any
snide remarks to them. So I guess I didn't get the hostility towards a new
mom with twins trying to do what was best. )

There were no snide remarks. I even commended her for pumping.

I think what you are sensing from me is exasperation, not hostility. I
know pumping for twins is hard. I told her so. But I also told her
that the longer the twins are talking milk from a bottle the harder it
will be to get them to the breast. It might not be what she wants to
hear, but it's a sad truth, not hostility.

When a mother of twins posts for advice, I really try and help. I take
time to answer as many questions as I can because I know how difficult
it can be with twins. It was for me. Nursing twins can sometimes pose
difficulties you wouldn't experience with singletons. This is one of
the reasons I still hang around this group. To offer assistance to
mothers of twins.

I know it's not easy. Trust me I know. But all we can do here on this
ng is offer advice based on our experiences and the experiences of
others. If she chooses to ignore that advice and then repeatedly ask
for similar advice, I think it's not unreasonable to expect some people
to feel exasperation.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

Sue wrote:

I have to admit I have a hard time picking up on mood when in the written form.

It is the bane of newsgroups. Mood is difficult to convey in writing
unless you are very good writer (which I am not). And, I don't think
there are emoticons for every mood. LOL! :-)

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

I probably indeed read it wrong. I have to admit I have a hard time picking
up on mood when in the written form. Well I hope things go well for her
then. )
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Truffles wrote in message
...
Sue wrote:
She must have sent in for help when I was on vacation. Sorry. I thought
this
was her first post on the subject. However, I still thought some of the
replies were rude. At least she is breastfeeding, maybe not from the
tap,
but it is breastmilk. Let us not lose site of what exactly is important.
Lots of people pump exclusively, including Richard and no one ever said
any
snide remarks to them. So I guess I didn't get the hostility towards a
new
mom with twins trying to do what was best. )

There were no snide remarks. I even commended her for pumping.

I think what you are sensing from me is exasperation, not hostility. I
know pumping for twins is hard. I told her so. But I also told her
that the longer the twins are talking milk from a bottle the harder it
will be to get them to the breast. It might not be what she wants to
hear, but it's a sad truth, not hostility.

When a mother of twins posts for advice, I really try and help. I take
time to answer as many questions as I can because I know how difficult
it can be with twins. It was for me. Nursing twins can sometimes pose
difficulties you wouldn't experience with singletons. This is one of
the reasons I still hang around this group. To offer assistance to
mothers of twins.

I know it's not easy. Trust me I know. But all we can do here on this
ng is offer advice based on our experiences and the experiences of
others. If she chooses to ignore that advice and then repeatedly ask
for similar advice, I think it's not unreasonable to expect some people
to feel exasperation.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau