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Bad news for liars, good news for kids



 
 
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  #122  
Old January 15th 08, 01:33 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Mark Probert
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Posts: 1,876
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Debbee wrote:
On Jan 14, 4:45 am, Mark Probert wrote:

Paul: The medico-drug cartel was summed up by J.W. Hodge, M.D.,

Probert This guy is, by definition, an anti-vac liar sociopath.


Here's a question or two regarding this subject..

I'm taking it you work for a claims investigation service based on
what you have said; what difference would it be
to you or your company if an insurance company pays a claim for as
you say, a "fringe," treatment
or not??


We do not deal with that type of claim.

However, for me personally, it makes a difference since the claim adds
to my cost of insurance. Since the "treatment" is never going to improve
the condition, it becomes a perpetual money waster which makes me pay more.

I guess what I don't understand about the insurance world
works. If I understand correctly, don't most
alternative therapies cost much less than conventional treatments??


In the long run, possibly no. As for some of the real fringe treatments,
e.g. Hulda's, the Geier's, etc, they are far more costly since they do
nothing.

Would it not be cheaper for an
insurance company to pay on a cheaper form of medical treatment then
have an insured spend buko bucks
in the conventional medicine world which costs the insurance world
more money?


When no end is possible, it is a waste of money.



I have always assumed
insurance companies were in business to make a profit---just like
everyone else!!

  #123  
Old January 15th 08, 01:34 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Mark Probert
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Posts: 1,876
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Debbee wrote:
On Jan 13, 8:24 pm, Mark Probert wrote:

Still some of my worst nightmares.


I thought I was your only nightmare!!


Walk into a Vietnamese village for a MedCAP and smell rotting bodies and
those dying of plague.
  #124  
Old January 16th 08, 07:10 AM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
Mark
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Posts: 32
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 14, 1:58 pm, Debbee wrote:

Mark L, I have a hypothetical situation for you:

If I remember correctly, you work for some kind of Medical group.
Say you have a child that comes to
see you with his parents because they want a 3rd opinion -- ---the
chances for survival of the child are slim with the other two proposed
therapies. The parents tell you that they have heard about a
therapy that
as Probert likes to call it, that is "fringe" that there have been
some limited studies done about--say in Denmark and in Germany, but
nothing stateside, but there is a strong possibility that these large
doses of Vitamin supplement IVS might work for the child. As a
doctor, what do you do in a case like this? You already know the odds
of the chance for survival for the other two methods. The parents
have handed over to you the studies from that they pulled out of peer
reviewed journals. Based on the information you know about the other
two treatments, then seeing this rather limited alternative medicine
study information from Europe with good results, what would you
recommend? Would you abandon the conventional treatment way of
thinking to recommend trying the alternative medicine therapy, or
would you stand by it all of the way because you work for a Medical
group and your colleagues would not favor your decision?



Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make
decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been
blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you
very much.

If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed
journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the
third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the
oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have
heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read
about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe
that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret
studies on new cancer therapies.

Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a
darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic
neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the
department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had
worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly,
beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had
been exhausted.

Her mother called me and then brought me copies of
"research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true
research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor
woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with
*exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...]

Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't
remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins,
some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told
Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything
could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that
nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I
wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money.

Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and
this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's
life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell
he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went
nowhere.

Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her
hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed.

That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't
want you to know about.

Mark, MD
  #125  
Old January 16th 08, 02:13 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Mark Probert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,876
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Mark wrote:
On Jan 14, 1:58 pm, Debbee wrote:

Mark L, I have a hypothetical situation for you:

If I remember correctly, you work for some kind of Medical group.
Say you have a child that comes to
see you with his parents because they want a 3rd opinion -- ---the
chances for survival of the child are slim with the other two proposed
therapies. The parents tell you that they have heard about a
therapy that
as Probert likes to call it, that is "fringe" that there have been
some limited studies done about--say in Denmark and in Germany, but
nothing stateside, but there is a strong possibility that these large
doses of Vitamin supplement IVS might work for the child. As a
doctor, what do you do in a case like this? You already know the odds
of the chance for survival for the other two methods. The parents
have handed over to you the studies from that they pulled out of peer
reviewed journals. Based on the information you know about the other
two treatments, then seeing this rather limited alternative medicine
study information from Europe with good results, what would you
recommend? Would you abandon the conventional treatment way of
thinking to recommend trying the alternative medicine therapy, or
would you stand by it all of the way because you work for a Medical
group and your colleagues would not favor your decision?



Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make
decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been
blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you
very much.


Debbee uses many veils. It has been her tactic for years, She uses it so
she can feign deniability later on.



If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed
journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the
third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the
oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have
heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read
about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe
that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret
studies on new cancer therapies.

Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a
darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic
neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the
department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had
worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly,
beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had
been exhausted.

Her mother called me and then brought me copies of
"research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true
research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor
woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with
*exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...]

Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't
remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins,
some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told
Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything
could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that
nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I
wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money.

Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and
this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's
life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell
he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went
nowhere.

Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her
hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed.

That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't
want you to know about.


A very sad story that those promoters of the fictitious "health freedom
movement" do not want to hear. Remember, "health freedom" is a buzzword
which actually means "quackery for sale".

You should have reported the SOB to the authorities in Colorado.
  #126  
Old January 16th 08, 02:27 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
D. C. Sessions
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Posts: 464
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

In message , Peter Bowditch wrote:

Have you thought of having a psych workup, Jan?


The verb and the addressee don't agree.

--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions --------------+
  #127  
Old January 16th 08, 05:22 PM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
Debbee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 15, 10:10*pm, Mark wrote:


Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make
decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. *I have been
blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you
very much.


I was referencing conventional medicine--I do believe remembering
that you are not an alternative health care advocate. No veil
there.



If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed
journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the
third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the
oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have
heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. *I can read
about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe
that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret
studies on new cancer therapies.


I guess I wasn't thinking on the lines of cancer when I wrote that
idea. But let's go ahead and use it as the diagnosis.


Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. *I had a
darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic
neuroblastoma. *The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the
department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had
worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly,
beyond hope. *All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had
been exhausted.


I have a lot lately in reading about children's health, and I support
children's
charities as a volunteer. My heart pours out to the families. I can
only imagine
how tough it would be to be a doctor during times like these.

Her mother called me and then brought me copies of
"research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true
research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor
woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with
*exactly her daughter's condition.* *[The nerve of this *******...]


Testimonials?? Good grief.

Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. *I don't
remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins,
some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. *I told
Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything
could really be done to delay the inevitable. *I did tell her that
nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I
wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money.


Yes, one can only imagine what parents would do in order to try and
keep going, to see if there was any therapy that would help the child.


Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and
this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's
life worth?" *I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell
he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went
nowhere.


That's absolutely horrible. How much is your daughter's life worth?
What
kind of answer is that? Did you help by turning the ******* into his
medical
board?

Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her
hands. *I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed.


At the least, the mother tried everything she could to help save the
life of her child; but I don't think I would have (if I had been in
her shoes),
have gone to Dr. Colorado based on "testimonials," and would have
attempted
to find help in St. Elsewhere.


That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't
want you to know about.


I can understand about parents wanting to do all that they can for
their
dying child, but unless the doctor actually has personal research and
data
to support their findings, and not "testimonials" I find that a lot of
this "miracle
cures," are hogwash. It is like shampoo that claims it can heal
"split ends,"
we all know that this is bogus.

Mark, MD


Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words
"testimonials" and think
they mean real life research and supporting evidence. You may have
saved some
other parent a costly heart ache down the road.


  #128  
Old January 16th 08, 05:35 PM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
Debbee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 16, 5:13*am, Mark Probert wrote:


Debbee uses many veils. It has been her tactic for years, She uses it so
she can feign deniability later on.



Yes, that is what you would think about me. You don't even know me.

The question was for Mark L, which he answered very appropriately, and
you need to
read my comments before making up garbage that simply is not true.


  #129  
Old January 17th 08, 12:49 AM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 16, 10:22 am, Debbee wrote:

snip


Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words
"testimonials" and think
they mean real life research and supporting evidence. You may have
saved some
other parent a costly heart ache down the road.



I appreciate that. The most heart-wrenching part of this wasn't the
fact that the family got swindled out of several thousand dollars; it
was the false hope that this guy sold them. I'm a parent. If my kid
was dying, I'd grasp at straws too. But this guy apparently does it
gleefully, complete with a packaged sales pitch, and he doesn't give a
damn that he is bilking desperate people by playing on their desperate
hopes that their loved on can be saved.

There's something to be said for letting go when it's time to do so.
Thankfully, my patient's Mom reached that point before the little girl
died...barely (about 16 hours, to tell the truth.)

Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and
desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell. It's just
despicable. That's why I'm so vehement against people like Dr.
Colorado and Hulda Clark. They are obviously selling prepackaged
****, but they'll keep doing it as long as there are suckers who will
pay.

Sorry. Ranting again.

Mark, MD
  #130  
Old January 17th 08, 01:57 AM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
rpautrey2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

DW: Your understanding of reality must be a horrible experience.

Paul

On Jan 14, 9:54*am, (David Wright) wrote:
In article ,

rpautrey2 wrote:
REALITY!
Excerpt From:


The Drug Story
Hans Ruesch


And we should believe this silly screed is "reality" because?

* -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
* * *These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
* * *"Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?"
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Bill Maher


 




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