The Study on International Spanking - China, the Philippines, Italy,India, and Kenya

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."

AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Doan wrote:

Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."

I left out everything else as well.

People leave lots of things out if the article is long enough. I
included a citation just so people can look for themselves.

Now let's consider something from above. What do YOU think this
means?:"A particular parenting practice may become a problem"

In the context of moving to another culture, I take that as meaning
problems with the authorities, neighbors, and even family members who
have resided in the new culture longer and assimilated and acculturated.

I'd say it's a fair warning they could get in trouble.

It has, apparently, nothing to do with whether the parenting method of
CP will work better or worse.

And in that vein...let's not forget that REGARDLESS OF CULTURE AND
ACCEPTANCE WE STILL HAVE THIS RESULT...

"In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "

Now tell us, what is the significance of the statement you just posted
as per this bit that I did NOT leave out?

If it negates it, please explain how.

If the two are not inclusive, admit it and concede.

0:-






AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

You might want to read the source FIRST! In particular, what they defined
as physical discipline. Do you wonder why LaVonne is so afraid to go
into the details of this study? Could it be that she is SMARTER than
you? ;-)

AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:

Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."

I left out everything else as well.

People leave lots of things out if the article is long enough. I
included a citation just so people can look for themselves.

Now let's consider something from above. What do YOU think this
means?:"A particular parenting practice may become a problem"

In the context of moving to another culture, I take that as meaning
problems with the authorities, neighbors, and even family members who
have resided in the new culture longer and assimilated and acculturated.

I'd say it's a fair warning they could get in trouble.

It has, apparently, nothing to do with whether the parenting method of
CP will work better or worse.

And in that vein...let's not forget that REGARDLESS OF CULTURE AND
ACCEPTANCE WE STILL HAVE THIS RESULT...

"In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "

Now tell us, what is the significance of the statement you just posted
as per this bit that I did NOT leave out?

If it negates it, please explain how.

If the two are not inclusive, admit it and concede.

0:-






AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Doan wrote:
You might want to read the source FIRST! In particular, what they defined
as physical discipline. Do you wonder why LaVonne is so afraid

You are a presumptuous twit. How do YOU know what others are afraid of
or not?

When did you stop kicking your dog?

to go
into the details of this study? Could it be that she is SMARTER than
you? ;-)

I just posted the estimates of US deaths and injury from people that
escalated spanking to abuse.

Why would CULTURALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE not be normal corporal
punishment in those instances?

You yourself have claimed that the legal definition should be The Line,
and what do we have in the US as legally "normal?"

A city councilman that is acquitted after beating his son with a belt
hard enough to leave marks from the buckle.

You can't pull a Baumrind, Doan. It's way too obvious.

If it's normal in a culture by custom or law, pal, it's 'spanking' by
definition. Unless of course you wish to extend beating practices there
to beating practices and claim they aren't CP. Wanna try that, stupid?

Odd that you'd find these severe foreign practices something to make
presumptions about but you yourself would not ever, past or present,
speak out when Fern defended the church whippings.

Any thoughts, or just more stupidity from you?

0:-




AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."
I left out everything else as well.

People leave lots of things out if the article is long enough. I
included a citation just so people can look for themselves.

Now let's consider something from above. What do YOU think this
means?:"A particular parenting practice may become a problem"

In the context of moving to another culture, I take that as meaning
problems with the authorities, neighbors, and even family members who
have resided in the new culture longer and assimilated and acculturated.

I'd say it's a fair warning they could get in trouble.

It has, apparently, nothing to do with whether the parenting method of
CP will work better or worse.

And in that vein...let's not forget that REGARDLESS OF CULTURE AND
ACCEPTANCE WE STILL HAVE THIS RESULT...

"In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "

Now tell us, what is the significance of the statement you just posted
as per this bit that I did NOT leave out?

If it negates it, please explain how.

If the two are not inclusive, admit it and concede.

0:-





AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

It's obvious that you haven't read the study. You are just demonstrating
your STUPIDITY, as usual. ;-)

AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
You might want to read the source FIRST! In particular, what they defined
as physical discipline. Do you wonder why LaVonne is so afraid

You are a presumptuous twit. How do YOU know what others are afraid of
or not?

When did you stop kicking your dog?

to go
into the details of this study? Could it be that she is SMARTER than
you? ;-)

I just posted the estimates of US deaths and injury from people that
escalated spanking to abuse.

Why would CULTURALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE not be normal corporal
punishment in those instances?

You yourself have claimed that the legal definition should be The Line,
and what do we have in the US as legally "normal?"

A city councilman that is acquitted after beating his son with a belt
hard enough to leave marks from the buckle.

You can't pull a Baumrind, Doan. It's way too obvious.

If it's normal in a culture by custom or law, pal, it's 'spanking' by
definition. Unless of course you wish to extend beating practices there
to beating practices and claim they aren't CP. Wanna try that, stupid?

Odd that you'd find these severe foreign practices something to make
presumptions about but you yourself would not ever, past or present,
speak out when Fern defended the church whippings.

Any thoughts, or just more stupidity from you?

0:-




AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."
I left out everything else as well.

People leave lots of things out if the article is long enough. I
included a citation just so people can look for themselves.

Now let's consider something from above. What do YOU think this
means?:"A particular parenting practice may become a problem"

In the context of moving to another culture, I take that as meaning
problems with the authorities, neighbors, and even family members who
have resided in the new culture longer and assimilated and acculturated.

I'd say it's a fair warning they could get in trouble.

It has, apparently, nothing to do with whether the parenting method of
CP will work better or worse.

And in that vein...let's not forget that REGARDLESS OF CULTURE AND
ACCEPTANCE WE STILL HAVE THIS RESULT...

"In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "

Now tell us, what is the significance of the statement you just posted
as per this bit that I did NOT leave out?

If it negates it, please explain how.

If the two are not inclusive, admit it and concede.

0:-





AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Doan wrote:
It's obvious that you haven't read the study. You are just demonstrating
your STUPIDITY, as usual. ;-)

Apparently you didn't read my challenges to your assumptions that have
nothing to do with "reading the study" but simply reading the reported
information LaVonne offered and is available from many sources.

You quoted some, I quoted some. You made assumptions, I challenged your
assumption and you Doan'd Out, as per your long illustrious posting
history of lies and evasions.

You are stupid to think I and others do not know this as a matter of
course.

We can read. We can think. We can assess.

You are a consummate skilled but stupid liar weasel all too easily
uncovered, just as in this case.

Care to clean up your act and answer my challenges and questions from my
reply to you, or are you going to continue with your unethical and
dishonest responses to dodge issues?

Or could it be that you have once again provided a concession by dodge,
as is also a common method of yours, that you deny by coming back and
trying to take up the same stupid argument then once again dodging when
challenged?

I'd like to see you answer The Fern question on church beatings.

Going to?

Probably not. You are a coward, a fraud, and dishonest. And you hate
children and parents. Your posts drip of it.

Kane



AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
You might want to read the source FIRST! In particular, what they defined
as physical discipline. Do you wonder why LaVonne is so afraid
You are a presumptuous twit. How do YOU know what others are afraid of
or not?

When did you stop kicking your dog?

to go
into the details of this study? Could it be that she is SMARTER than
you? ;-)
I just posted the estimates of US deaths and injury from people that
escalated spanking to abuse.

Why would CULTURALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE not be normal corporal
punishment in those instances?

You yourself have claimed that the legal definition should be The Line,
and what do we have in the US as legally "normal?"

A city councilman that is acquitted after beating his son with a belt
hard enough to leave marks from the buckle.

You can't pull a Baumrind, Doan. It's way too obvious.

If it's normal in a culture by custom or law, pal, it's 'spanking' by
definition. Unless of course you wish to extend beating practices there
to beating practices and claim they aren't CP. Wanna try that, stupid?

Odd that you'd find these severe foreign practices something to make
presumptions about but you yourself would not ever, past or present,
speak out when Fern defended the church whippings.

Any thoughts, or just more stupidity from you?

0:-



AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."
I left out everything else as well.

People leave lots of things out if the article is long enough. I
included a citation just so people can look for themselves.

Now let's consider something from above. What do YOU think this
means?:"A particular parenting practice may become a problem"

In the context of moving to another culture, I take that as meaning
problems with the authorities, neighbors, and even family members who
have resided in the new culture longer and assimilated and acculturated.

I'd say it's a fair warning they could get in trouble.

It has, apparently, nothing to do with whether the parenting method of
CP will work better or worse.

And in that vein...let's not forget that REGARDLESS OF CULTURE AND
ACCEPTANCE WE STILL HAVE THIS RESULT...

"In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "

Now tell us, what is the significance of the statement you just posted
as per this bit that I did NOT leave out?

If it negates it, please explain how.

If the two are not inclusive, admit it and concede.

0:-





AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Is Kane arguing using the ABSTRACT of a study again?

Greegor wrote:
Is Kane arguing using the ABSTRACT of a study again?

Sure. If you wish to argue based on the full study, please feel free.

What point in the full study would you like to discuss?

Which point in the "abstract" (which you are misusing as a term) is it
that you are avoiding discussing by labeling the media pieces instead of
discussing content?

Feel free to state your position on the questions I ask and Doan avoided
so very carefully.

0:-




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
You might want to read the source FIRST! In particular, what they defined
as physical discipline. Do you wonder why LaVonne is so afraid

You are a presumptuous twit. How do YOU know what others are afraid of
or not?

By their action, STUPID! LaVonne was the one who challenged me to debate
and then ran!

When did you stop kicking your dog?

Hihihi! When did I thought as a dog?

to go
into the details of this study? Could it be that she is SMARTER than
you? ;-)

I just posted the estimates of US deaths and injury from people that
escalated spanking to abuse.

Why would CULTURALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE not be normal corporal
punishment in those instances?

Because the researcher themself said so, STUPID!

You yourself have claimed that the legal definition should be The Line,
and what do we have in the US as legally "normal?"

The study did talk about the legal definition, STUPID!

A city councilman that is acquitted after beating his son with a belt
hard enough to leave marks from the buckle.

You can't pull a Baumrind, Doan. It's way too obvious.

But you can be stupid! ;-)

If it's normal in a culture by custom or law, pal, it's 'spanking' by
definition. Unless of course you wish to extend beating practices there
to beating practices and claim they aren't CP. Wanna try that, stupid?

You obviously have read the study, STUPID!

Odd that you'd find these severe foreign practices something to make
presumptions about but you yourself would not ever, past or present,
speak out when Fern defended the church whippings.

Any thoughts, or just more stupidity from you?

Read the STUDY, stupid! ;-0

AF
0:-




AFfromDreamLand

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Gee! I see that you conveniently left out:

"One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making
recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural
groups," said lead researcher Jennifer Lansford, Ph.D., a research
scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University. "A
particular parenting practice may become a problem only if parents use it
in a cultural context that does not support the practice (for example, if
they migrate from one country to another)."
I left out everything else as well.

People leave lots of things out if the article is long enough. I
included a citation just so people can look for themselves.

Now let's consider something from above. What do YOU think this
means?:"A particular parenting practice may become a problem"

In the context of moving to another culture, I take that as meaning
problems with the authorities, neighbors, and even family members who
have resided in the new culture longer and assimilated and acculturated.

I'd say it's a fair warning they could get in trouble.

It has, apparently, nothing to do with whether the parenting method of
CP will work better or worse.

And in that vein...let's not forget that REGARDLESS OF CULTURE AND
ACCEPTANCE WE STILL HAVE THIS RESULT...

"In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "

Now tell us, what is the significance of the statement you just posted
as per this bit that I did NOT leave out?

If it negates it, please explain how.

If the two are not inclusive, admit it and concede.

0:-





AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, 0:- wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1114110820.htm

" ... The researchers found differences in how often mothers used
physical discipline and the mothers' perceptions of how often other
parents used physical discipline. Specifically:

* Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline
their children, followed by mothers in China, the Philippines, Italy,
India, and Kenya, with mothers in Kenya most likely to physically
discipline their children.
* More frequent use of physical discipline was less strongly
associated with child aggression and anxiety when it was perceived as
being more culturally accepted, but physical discipline was also
associated with more aggression and anxiety regardless of the perception
of cultural acceptance.
* In countries in which physical discipline was more common and
culturally accepted, children who were physically disciplined were less
aggressive and less anxious than children who were physically
disciplined in countries where physical discipline was rarely used.
* In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was
associated with more child aggression and anxiety. ... "



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin