Cow's Milk Production Question - semi OT

I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't
know what to ask Google.

Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same
age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about
introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about
'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned, blah
blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows milk,
you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She
said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink cows
milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their calves
don't need.
I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the
early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the
cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that they
are fed to stimulate milk production.
Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember
where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling
that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know.

Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I
am.
Thanks.
Tracey in CT

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:10:17 +0000, Tracey wrote:

I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't
know what to ask Google.

Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same
age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about
introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about
'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned,
blah blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows
milk, you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows.
She said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink
cows milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their
calves don't need.
I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the
early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the
cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that
they are fed to stimulate milk production.
Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember
where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling
that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know.

Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I
am.
Thanks.
Tracey in CT

I have no references for you, but as far as I understand it, whatever else
might be in the mix, cows basically produce milk according to the
principle of supply and demand (as humans do). I give DS organic milk
which is produced without hormones etc... and quite a few people around
here have "house cows" who provide them with milk without any of the
tricks of the dairy trade. I would also guess that cows have become
extraodinary mild producers through centuries of domestication and
controlled breeding.

This mother you speak of seems to have very skewed logic. If the capacity
for excess milk production means we ought to drink it, then we should be
drinking all manner of mammal milk (and to express a culturally informed
view point - yuck!). Cows milk is nutritionally useful,
but not essential. It is not, for instance, a common element of many Asian
diets and people with lactose allergies can get along without it, etc...

Hope that helps
Libby

Hi -

Cow's produce so much milk because they've been bred to do so for
centuries. However, that doesn't make cow's milk good for babies! And
too much of it isn't good for most people. Visit my web site and look
for the link to Don Wiss' "no milk" page. He's got links to excellent
web sites, several of which explain *exactly* why cow's milk isn't good
for you. (Its early introduction is linked to various autoimmune
diseases, for example.)

I hope this helps,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi -

Cow's produce so much milk because they've been bred to do so for
centuries. However, that doesn't make cow's milk good for babies! And
too much of it isn't good for most people. Visit my web site and look
for the link to Don Wiss' "no milk" page. He's got links to excellent
web sites, several of which explain *exactly* why cow's milk isn't good
for you. (Its early introduction is linked to various autoimmune
diseases, for example.)


Thanks Beth, I've already been to the "no milk" page, and I did find some
stuff that I was looking for there. Mostly I was looking for (and did find
on another site) information about WHY cows produce so much milk...and I was
right, hormones, artificial insemination, lots of milking.

Tracey

"Libby Macdonald" wrote in message
I have no references for you, but as far as I understand it, whatever else
might be in the mix, cows basically produce milk according to the
principle of supply and demand (as humans do).

LOL, thats the one thing I forgot about. Just like with humans, you pump a
lot, they make more milk.
How did I forget that? :-P

Thanks.
Tracey

"Tracey" wrote in message
om...

"Libby Macdonald" wrote in message
I have no references for you, but as far as I understand it, whatever
else
might be in the mix, cows basically produce milk according to the
principle of supply and demand (as humans do).

LOL, thats the one thing I forgot about. Just like with humans, you pump
a
lot, they make more milk.
How did I forget that? :-P

Well, yes and no. Some cows, like some women, make more milk by their
nature. Some breeds of cows make more milk (Holstein); some make more fat
(Jersey, Guernsey). The Holstein breed especially has been bred to
overproduced by spectacular amounts. Some breeds of cattle give no more than
a quart a *day*. Obviously such a breed could not be expected to feed their
own calves, and humans too!

But of course, if a high-producing Holstein is not milked empty every
milking, she will begin to produce less, and less, until she produces no
more than a calf would take.

The OP's friend was merely ignorant. That's easy enough to fix.

--angela

"Tracey" wrote in message
. com...
I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I don't
know what to ask Google.

Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the same
age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about
introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about
'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned,
blah
blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows milk,
you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She
said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink cows
milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their calves
don't need.
I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of the
early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to the
cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that
they
are fed to stimulate milk production.
Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't remember
where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a feeling
that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know.

Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if I
am.
Thanks.
Tracey in CT




While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our
benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and
professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your
thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my experience.
In Australia, antiobiotics are used rarely because the milk cannot be sold
until it is completely free of the system - this is a major hassle for the
farmer and most find it is better not to use them unless absolutely
necessary so I think it is not a common thing. I dont know anyone that uses
growth hormones at all as there is almost no market for any livestock that
have been treated with them at any point in their life. Not all of our
dairy herds use ai but certainly some do so there is some use of hormones to
induce cycling. We have quality assurance systems in place to track this
sort of thing and audit it - and these are getting more strict all the time.
Most cows in Australia are grass fed - beef cattle are primarily grass-fed,
dairy cows would have some grain/silage supplementation to help meet their
higher energy demand. It depends on how you define "a natural diet" but I
think grass, hay and grain could be regarded as quite natural. Quite simply,
cows of most commercial dairying breeds have been selected for high milk
production - nothing complicated about it - over centuries, we have bred
from the cows with the highest milk production to the point where it is a
very large amount. For beef breeds or rare breeds, the milk production is
much more in tune with the needs of the calf. Dairy cows are milked at
least twice daily (sometimes 3 times) and fed to maintain that production -
a case of very efficient supply and demand. The ones that dont meet the
standard are culled. Some people may have ethical concerns over this but in
my experience, there is no big conspiracy to sell food of a poor quality.
Dairy products do have a role in a balanced diet for many people - not to
say we cant point out to people that cows milk is *not* naturally intended
for babies and that there arent valid alternatives as the babies grow up and
require a wider variety of foods. BTW, I am not a dairy farmer - we grow
wool, beef and grain. However, I am involved in plant breeding and it is
amazing how some people get worried that what we do is really more complex
and dangerous than it is. We use the same selective breeding techniques
that humans have used for many centuries (albeit a bit more sophisticated) -
no high-tech genetic engineering at all. OK - lecture over and good luck
with getting your alternative pov regarding cows milk across to others - I
admit that I also find the other Mum's logic very strange. Cows produce
lots of milk because we have made them do it, nothing to do with what nature
intended.

cheers
Leah Lane

"A & L Lane" lonewood @ telstra . com wrote in message
...
While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our
benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and
professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your
thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my
experience.


Thank you very much for you informative response. I wonder how different
things are because you are in Australia vs. the US? Interesting and
informative...I will pass info along to my friend.
Tracey

"Tracey" wrote in message
m...

"A & L Lane" lonewood @ telstra . com wrote in message
...
While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our
benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer
and
professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find
your
thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my
experience.


Thank you very much for you informative response. I wonder how different
things are because you are in Australia vs. the US? Interesting and
informative...I will pass info along to my friend.

Well, in the US, a great many dairy cows never see a blade of green grass
once they get into production - they live in lots, eat hay, silage and
grain, and generally experience nothing like a "natural" bovine existence.
This may well contribute to increased rates of infection, I don't know.
This is not to say that smaller farms don't have pastures for their cattle.
Just that many cattle in the US are not pastured nor grass-fed.

--angela

That was an extremely interesting post. Thank you for sharing it! I doubt
that things are quite the same here in the US from what I have seen (there's
a dairy farm close to my house that gives tours and it's very
disconcerting!). I enjoyed reading your post, though. Thanks!

CY
"A & L Lane" lonewood @ telstra . com wrote in message
...

"Tracey" wrote in message
. com...
I need help finding some info, and googling isn't working because I
don't
know what to ask Google.

Okay, on my Yahoo Group that I participate in of moms with babies the
same
age as mine (12 months), we were having a discussion yesterday about
introducing the kidlets to cows milk. One of the Moms was talking about
'how important' cows milk is nutritionally to babies that have weaned,
blah
blah blah. I said to her that humans aren't designed to drink cows
milk,
you know, human milk for human babies, cows milk is for baby cows. She
said to me something to the effect that we MUST be supposed to drink
cows
milk, otherwise why would they make so much excess milk that their
calves
don't need.
I replied that I'm sure cows produce so much milk only because of
the
early weaning of the calves, endless antibiotics and hormones given to
the
cows to keep them producing so much milk, and the not natural diet that
they
are fed to stimulate milk production.
Am I right? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere, but can't
remember
where, and I can't find anything to back me up. Somehow I have a
feeling
that I might have read it in Milk, Money and Madness, but I don't know.

Can anyone help me with some cites?? Or tell me that I'm way off if
I
am.
Thanks.
Tracey in CT




While I agree with you that cows do not make lots of milk just for our
benefit and too much isnt good nutrition for human babies, as a farmer and
professional working in the field of agricultural science, I do find your
thoughts on why cows produce so much milk a bit different to my
experience.
In Australia, antiobiotics are used rarely because the milk cannot be sold
until it is completely free of the system - this is a major hassle for the
farmer and most find it is better not to use them unless absolutely
necessary so I think it is not a common thing. I dont know anyone that
uses
growth hormones at all as there is almost no market for any livestock that
have been treated with them at any point in their life. Not all of our
dairy herds use ai but certainly some do so there is some use of hormones
to
induce cycling. We have quality assurance systems in place to track this
sort of thing and audit it - and these are getting more strict all the
time.
Most cows in Australia are grass fed - beef cattle are primarily
grass-fed,
dairy cows would have some grain/silage supplementation to help meet their
higher energy demand. It depends on how you define "a natural diet" but I
think grass, hay and grain could be regarded as quite natural. Quite
simply,
cows of most commercial dairying breeds have been selected for high milk
production - nothing complicated about it - over centuries, we have bred
from the cows with the highest milk production to the point where it is a
very large amount. For beef breeds or rare breeds, the milk production is
much more in tune with the needs of the calf. Dairy cows are milked at
least twice daily (sometimes 3 times) and fed to maintain that
production -
a case of very efficient supply and demand. The ones that dont meet the
standard are culled. Some people may have ethical concerns over this but
in
my experience, there is no big conspiracy to sell food of a poor quality.
Dairy products do have a role in a balanced diet for many people - not to
say we cant point out to people that cows milk is *not* naturally intended
for babies and that there arent valid alternatives as the babies grow up
and
require a wider variety of foods. BTW, I am not a dairy farmer - we grow
wool, beef and grain. However, I am involved in plant breeding and it is
amazing how some people get worried that what we do is really more complex
and dangerous than it is. We use the same selective breeding techniques
that humans have used for many centuries (albeit a bit more
sophisticated) -
no high-tech genetic engineering at all. OK - lecture over and good luck
with getting your alternative pov regarding cows milk across to others - I
admit that I also find the other Mum's logic very strange. Cows produce
lots of milk because we have made them do it, nothing to do with what
nature
intended.

cheers
Leah Lane