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Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.



 
 
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Old August 9th 06, 09:13 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
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Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.

Dear Dr ___,

I should thank you that you have taken time to read my letter and
answer it. However you have not deviated from your reductionist view of
disease. This remains the greatest stumbling block in the efforts of
modern day doctors in understanding and appreciating the views of
holistic therapies.

You say that holistic therapies do not show any results. You say that
the public is more attracted towards modern medicine and have rejected
the holistic sciences. I do not know from where you get this
impression. The growing trend is that people are now moving towards
holistic therapies, naturopathy, yoga, accupressure and energy medicine
in hordes. In fact this movement is forcing the big hospitals to dabble
in these therapies to retain the patients and also to maintain their
profits.

Our tirade against modern medicine is not because we want more people
to switch over but to save people from regressing from acute curable
illnesses to chronic autoimmune disorders. You have yourself stated,
"In early 20th century, infectious disease were rampant due to our
inability to stop them. When we reduced the incidence of infectitious
disease disease, Vascular disease became common. Now
that we are controlling this, neoplastic diseases are becoming more
common."

You say that homeopaths are impervious to this change. This is not the
case because though disease names have changed and the disease has gone
to the next stage, the underlying miasm remains the same. As the
homeopaths apply their miasmatic approach, neoplastic diseases will go
back to their vascular origin and then the original acute infection
will surface which, when cured by using homeopathic principles, will
rid the person of disease. This is the within-outward motion of disease
as discovered and recorded by Hahnemann.

You should thus agree that if we can pursuade people to take recourse
to holistic therapies at the acute stage then they need not regress
into vascular or neoplastic diseases.

Just as the common people do not understand the theories behind
allopathy, despite being taught from primary school onwards, they also
do not generally know about the principles behind homeopathy, ayurveda
and energy medicine. They will simply go to the nearest doctor
available. The fact that the bills of allopaths are reimbursed by
employers and insurance companies without much questioning, and that
the government backs allopathic medicine, make people flock to
allopaths.

The allopaths also promise them a cure by the way of popping a pill
without telling them that suppressing the disease will not make it go
away but simply morph into other areas. As you say. "Syphilis occurs in
3 stages-primary, secondary and tertiary. Primary stage presents as a
chancre which with or without treatment heals in 2 weeks. If untreated,
secondary syphilis occurs several months later with diffuse skin
eruptions. That goes away after a few weeks with or without treatement.
If untreated, Syphilis comes back many years later as tertiary
syphilis, which can manifest as Gumma - ulcers, Aortic aneurysms or
neurosyphilis."

By saying this you have infact corraborated the syphillitic miasm of
Hahnemann where he has dealt with exactly this morphing from primary to
secondary to tertiary. To you the disease names change but to a
homeopath, the underlying syphillitic miasm remains the same,
progressing from the primary to secondary to tertiary. On being
homeopathically treated the disease will reverse gear from tertiary to
secondary and then the primary chancre will show up once again, and
when homeopathically treated, the syphillitic miasm itself will
disappear.

Now do you tell all this to your patients? Syphillis when treated by
your methods has a very damaging effect on the body-mind-emotion
complex called man. Do you think syphillis only affects the body and
organs? No, syphillis effects the mind also. Most cases of insanity and
depraved behaviour can be attributed to the mismanaged original
chancre. Thus allopathy is directly behind the rising crime graph and
rising cases of psychological disorders all over the world. Similarly
for gonorrhoea which when mismanaged develops into the miasmatic state
called sycosis. These disease states are not only herditory but also
spread through sharing injection needles and through the use of serum
based medicines and vaccinations and also through blood transfusions.

Homeopathic treatment not only cures the body but also the mind and
emotions thus leading Hahnemann to declare, "The physicians only duty
to heal the sick, to cure as it is termed, with a view to restoring the
individual to his original state of being as prior to infestation of
the disease state from which he suffers". A tall order for you
allopaths to follow.

Homeopathy is today the second most popular healing system in the
world. If we go by your statement that homeopathy cannot cure
illnesses, then this would not be the case. The homeopaths, and also
other holistic healers, should be lauded because they tackle patients
who come to them after being discarded by the allopaths, to try
holistic therapies as a last resort. Had they come during the original
acute illnesses then they would have been saved a lot of pain and saved
a lot of money too.

The holistic therapies continue to be neglected. In India the
government allots less than 1% of the health budget to each of these
therapies. The funds allotted too are not properly released. The
holistic hospitals and colleges lack the most basic amenities, the
courses are designed to reflect reductionism by the medical council of
India. Thus the students have to complete their courses and then again
relearn their subjects to have knowledge about the classical and pure
aspect of their sciences. And then they find that their medicine chest
has been depleted by deforestation, their curative properties hindered
by pesticides, and the patients accustomed to the "instant cure"
promises of the allopaths.

They also find that the natural disease state is no longer to be found,
mixed as they are by the side effects of chemical medicines and
deformed by a suppressive mode of treatment. To discern the original
disease state from among the mixed symptoms and recovering it from the
maize of chemical effects imposed thereupon is itself a stupendous task
delaying both recovery and testing the patients patience. Truly
allopathy is a curse on mankind and the greatest stumbling block in the
way to recovery of a diseased humanity.

If the holistic practitioners can battle all this and yet show results
it does prove that there is something in these sciences which merit
study and encouragement so that the public can get treated in the true
sense of the term and not wallow in misery as is their fate now.

To know of toxins and their nature you have to study toxicology. While
you people depend only on the body and on how to chemicalise it with
your harmful medicines, you have totally forgotten that curing disease
is not only about killing bacteria and viruses, but is better effected
by raising the natural immunity of the body through better hygiene,
nutrition, exercise, natural exposure to the elements and spiritual
exercises like prayer, ethics and meditation. Therefore I always stress
that the doctors should have an all round education comprising modern
medicine and also holistic therapies, energy medicine and a spiritual
education. This will render them less harmful and may also reform them
when they realise how badly their mode of treatment is hurting their
patients.

It reflects on the incomplete nature of your education when you say
that you have not read the classical authors of allopathy like Antoine
Beuchamp who declared that bacteria or germs could not exist without a
fertile ground. But the homeopaths are taught about this "fertile
ground". They know that flies and maggots appear when the garbage rots,
and that it does not benefit by killing the flies and maggots without
making arrangements to clear the garbage in the first place.

Regards,
Jagannath.

--- In @yahoogroups.com, "____" ________@... wrote:

Dear Jagannathji,
My reply as follows :

Jagannath.
I do not find the article objectionable in any way. The writer

has tried to understand the homeopathic principles, explained them,
and comes to the conclusion that it is unscientific and defies
common sense.

MS : My purpose was not to find the most derogatory article on
Homeopathy but to explain what homeopathy is to most average people.

Jagannath.
All homeopaths in fact agree to the above, that homeopathy is

beyond science and defies the commonly believed ideas of physics,
chemistry and medicine. There is no quarrel with this.

MS : This is precisely why I find this objectionable and respect
your right to hold your views.

Jagannath.
But what baffles both homeopaths as well as its detractors is

that homeopathy works. In a recent symposium on homeopathy held at
Kolkata, India, the mainstream doctors, while criticising
homeopathy, conceded that it does work. They also expressed concern
that homeopathy, if accepted, would result in rewriting the texts of
physics and chemistry. The last objection seemed to trouble them the
most. They do not obviously want to start from zero once again.

MS : I am not one of those physicians. So your just saying would not
convince me. Homeopathy has not shown to work any better than
placebos in most trials I have seen so far. After these initial
failures, Homeopaths have simply backed out of these trials claiming
all these studies are biased. Why don't they do their own studies.
Problems are manyfold. 1. Consistancy in diagnosis. Same patient can
be diagnosed by 2 homeopaths to have different diagnosis 2. No
detailed natural history studies are available in Homeopathy and no
prognostic features have been studied and documented in Homeopathy
literatures. As such it will be difficult to stratify patients even
with the same diseases. 3. Therapy has to be standardised

Jagannath.
Homeopathy is more than just theory. The 290 odd principles of

homeopathy and its application, as well as the nature of disease,
stands untouched till today simply because no one has come up with
anything to merit a change. Even modern day homeopaths like Dr
George Vithoulkas marvels at the infallibility of the organon of
medicine as elucidated by Hahnemann.

MS:
Biology is a dymnamic field. Natural History of a disease tends to
change with time. Only reason Homeopathy has not found this is
because it blindly believe in the past and refuse to do continued
studies and that is why you say nothing has changed.

Jagannath.
This is in stark contrast with allopathy where the principles

change each day. This results in a lot of consternation as the
patients (the educated ones), come to the conclusion, at the end of
each passing day, that what was performed on them the previous day
is proved false the next. The frustration can well be imagined.
Sometimes we are forced to laugh as different studies bring out
different results leaving us puzzled as to which to adopt.

MS :
Principles don't change but facts do. This has to do with
environment. Our environment changes due to things beyond our
control. In early 20th century, infectious disease were rampant due
to our inability to stop them. When we reduced the incidence of
infectitious disease disease, Vascular disease became common. Now
that we are controlling this, neoplastic diseases are becoming more
common. Nothing has changed in Homeopathy, becuase you have played
no part in none of these development.

Jagannath.
Hahnemann studied man in his complete form of existence, also

conceded by the writer of your submitted article, and therefore came
out with certain unfallible rules. He rightly came to the conclusion
that disease could not exist without a fertile ground which he
termed miasm. And he then proceeded to attack the miasm and cure it
so that disease would be both relieved and cured as the base on
which it stood was destroyed.

MS:
Hero-worship. Unfortunately for him, he could not convince any
scientist of his day. He was able to convince only some gullible
public who were legitimately disgusted with medicine of that day.

Jagannath.
This approach has been advocated by mainstream doctors also, the

earliest being Antoine Beuchamp MD, and is being increasing
discussed amongst modern day doctors who are dealing with cancer and
AIDS.

MS:
I hear no such discussions in many meeting I attend. Soon I hope we
will have a vaccine to address the problem of AIDS. Hepatitis C was
a bigger threat 15 years ago and not anymore. Samething will happen
to HIV again with no controbutions from Homeopathy.

Jagannath.
Hahnemann also predicted the dynamics of disease. He could sense

that disease proceeded from outward within and the body reacted by
throwing it from within outwards. Thus we see that urine and faeces
become full of disease matter as the disease products are thrown
out. The skin also becomes active by throwing the toxins out in the
form of skin ailments.

MS:
What toxins? How are the created? What are the chemical steps
leading to the creation of these toxins? What are the exact chemical
composition of the toxins? Do you ever wonder in these days when we
can use chromatography to detect minute amount fo chemicals,
Homeopaths have never tried to find out exactly what they are
talking about?

Jagannath.
Hahnemann also observed that the disease force gained tremendous

encouragement if the external manifestations of disease was tinkered
with instead of treating the underlying cause. He also percieved
that the external disease states of syphillis or gonorrhoea
devastated the body if the external symptoms were tackled
allopathically. Mainstream doctors too have poercieved this and thus
physicians and psychiatrists test the blood for VD when they come
across symptoms that they think could have been caused by a case
history of veneral diseases. This thus proves that sexual diseases
do not go away entirely when the external lesions are destroyed.

MS:
Again this is because, Dr. Hahnemann never understood the biology of
syphilis. Infectious nature of syphilis was not understood in his
days. Syphilis occurs in 3 stages-primary, secondary and tertiary.
Primary stage presents as a chancre which with or without treatment
heals in 2 weeks. If untreated, secondary syphilis occurs several
months later with diffuse skin eruptions. That goes away after a few
weeks with or without treatement. If untreated, Syphilis comes back
many years later as tertiary syphilis, which can manifest as Gumma -
ulcers, Aortic aneurysms or neurosyphilis. Traditional medicine has
even located the exact areas of brain which are damaged in
Neurosyphilis. We have specific pupilary signs to detect this. None
of this is recorded in Homeopathy and hence not believed in
Homeopathy. Reason again is simple. Homeopaths tend to regurgitate
what was told to them from the past like the non-infectious syphilis
that Dr. hahnemann handed to them. They are not furthering the
knowledge and held stagnant.

Jagannath.
Hahneman's concept of the vital force is very similar to the

prana shakti of the ayurveds and the chi or ki of chinese medicine.
When the vital force is very strong allopathy can temporarily stave
off the disease. But this action weakens the vital force as it goes
against its natural flow. Repeated such attempts weakens the patient
and he becomes more and more sick and his internal organs give up
one by one leading to his ultimate death.

MS:
This is where we part company. When our knowledge of something is
incomplete, you want to go into a LaLa land and feel like you have
full understanding. If it makes you happy, keep it. My question to
you is if these vital forces are what keeps us healthy and not the
mundane physiology of human body, wouldn't it be better if we leave
all the healing to religious leaders like Sri Mahesh Yogi who are
better trained than you are in art of Meditation and others.

Jagannath.
It always amazes me when reductionist doctors who feel that all

organs and parts of the body function independantly of each other
report at the end that the patient has died of "multiple organ
failure".

MS :
Even a simple physiology book will show how interdependent all organ
systems are. In ICU to maintain life, doctors are trained to
maintain circulation, Blood pressure, Respirations and Renal
functions all at the same time. Homeopathy cannot even pretend to
take care really sick patients in ICU, due to its unscientific
nature. If you noticed in the news, conjoint twins whose bodies were
joined at the abdomen and with a common pelvis and they shared a
kidney and a liver while each controlled one leg. They were
separated by whom you call reductionist doctors. Do you think they
have no idea of various organ systems?

Jagannath.
As the writer points out, there is much to learn from

homeopathy. I too advocate that instead of reading homeopathic texts
cursorily with a motive to malign them, the physicians would do well
to study them sincerely, apply them in practice and test the
results. This has to be done by discarding the reductionist
principles they hold in their mind. Homoeopathy acts as per
homeopathic principles and not by allopathic tinkering.

MS:
It is not for us to reform Homeopathy. It is your responsibility. My
recommendations are these. Stop hero-worshipping. Ask critical
questions. Use socratic methods of inquiry. Study diseases in
detail. Develop natural history of diseases. And best of all do
controlled trials to verify what you are doing is helping the
patients.

Jagannath.
The same goes for the other holistic therapies also. There are

many mainstream practitioners who have turned to holistic therapies
in case of their own ailments, or for treating their family members
and achieved results. In my own family too a distant grandmother was
treated successfully of her paralysis by homeopathy despite being
the mother of four doctors, one of whom heads the most popular govt
medical college of Kolkata. This head too was relieved of her
gyneacological problems by the eminent homeopath Dr Bholanath
Chakroborty, attached to the President of India at that time.

MS:
I have seen many patients with Hemiplegia who got minimal physical
therapy and did well with no significant residual paralysis without
any other intervention. If one such patient went to you, you can
also take credit for their well-being. If a Homeopath were to take a
series of unselected patients with hemiplegia and make substantial
number of them fully functional, it will be celebrated everywhere.
We wouldn't even need stem cell research anymore.

Jagannath.
If the doctors can turn to holistic therapies while treating

themselves and their own kith and kin, why do they not extend the
same facilities to their patients, who go to them with great hope
and pay them substantial amounts as fees and also look upon them as
Gods?

MS:
I have never done that. May be you need turn them over to the their
medical society.

Jagannath.
I again reiterate that the doctors duty is to heal the patients

and not advocate any particular mode of treatment. He should be well
versed with all therapies and apply them as the situation demands.
Experimentations can continue on the hapless rats and monkeys while
the human beings are treated with fool proof methods of treatment.

MS :
Fool-proof method without experimentation is an oxymoron.

Jagannath.
You will also notice that I have struck out the "this article is

purely for educational purposes....the reader should consult a
(allopathic) physician..." introduced by you from the end as I
believe doctors should do what is right to avoid legal suits and not
escape by such declarations. They have a long way to go before they
can win back the trust of their patients. Any delay will permanently
cut them off from the mainstream. They should therefore initiate
reforms without any further ado.

MS :
It is the reforms that were instituted following a report by a non-
physician called Flexner
(http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...rticlekey=8795)
that led to the demise of homeopathy in early 1900s in US. So you
are the one who need to be afraid of reforms not those whose follow
the principles of science and trust in their research.

MS


  #2  
Old August 10th 06, 12:55 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.

Hi, I'm Tamra and I have just put together a wellness website featuring
body, mind and spirit type articles that have been published in various
health magazines and newspapers. Please take a look at:
www.tamramercieca.com

  #3  
Old August 11th 06, 08:50 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Happy Dog
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Posts: 9
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.

wrote in message

snip sermon

Homeopathy is a religion. To date, nobody has been able to support claims
that homeopathic remedies have obvious effects, of any kind, with a simple
controlled demonstration. Why is that?

exhale

moo


  #4  
Old August 11th 06, 02:11 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.


"Happy Dog" wrote in message
m...
wrote in message

snip sermon

Homeopathy is a religion. To date, nobody has been able to support claims
that homeopathic remedies have obvious effects, of any kind, with a simple
controlled demonstration. Why is that?

exhale

moo


moo ron http://www.whale.to/vaccines/god.html


  #5  
Old August 12th 06, 04:41 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 780
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, I'm Tamra and I have just put together a wellness website featuring
body, mind and spirit type articles that have been published in various
health magazines and newspapers. Please take a look at:
www.tamramercieca.com


That's what I like about this holistic approach to medicine. It's like the
holistic approach to the wallet.


  #6  
Old August 13th 06, 04:48 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
David Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 718
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.

In article ,
Happy Dog wrote:
wrote in message

snip sermon

Homeopathy is a religion. To date, nobody has been able to support claims
that homeopathic remedies have obvious effects, of any kind, with a simple
controlled demonstration. Why is that?

exhale


Well, there have been controlled trials that appeared to show some
effect from homeopathic medications, but you'd expect that in one
case out of 20 just from random chance. Replication, now, that'd be
far more impressive.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
  #7  
Old August 13th 06, 06:43 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Happy Dog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.

"David Wright" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
Happy Dog wrote:
wrote in message

snip sermon

Homeopathy is a religion. To date, nobody has been able to support claims
that homeopathic remedies have obvious effects, of any kind, with a simple
controlled demonstration. Why is that?

exhale


Well, there have been controlled trials that appeared to show some
effect from homeopathic medications, but you'd expect that in one
case out of 20 just from random chance. Replication, now, that'd be
far more impressive.


I meant the anecdotal claims that there are obvious and dramatic effects.
Resplendent first efforts that become the evanescence of hope when follow-up
performances are requested. One hit wonders, sort of.

m



  #8  
Old August 13th 06, 04:51 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
David Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 718
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.

In article ,
Happy Dog wrote:
"David Wright" wrote in message
om...
In article ,
Happy Dog wrote:
wrote in message

snip sermon

Homeopathy is a religion. To date, nobody has been able to support claims
that homeopathic remedies have obvious effects, of any kind, with a simple
controlled demonstration. Why is that?

exhale


Well, there have been controlled trials that appeared to show some
effect from homeopathic medications, but you'd expect that in one
case out of 20 just from random chance. Replication, now, that'd be
far more impressive.


I meant the anecdotal claims that there are obvious and dramatic effects.
Resplendent first efforts that become the evanescence of hope when follow-up
performances are requested. One hit wonders, sort of.


That's for sure. As a general rule, the better the controls on
homeopathic remedies in clinical trials, the more poorly the remedies
perform.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
  #9  
Old August 13th 06, 05:29 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 780
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.


"Happy Dog" wrote in message
m...
wrote in message

snip sermon

Homeopathy is a religion. To date, nobody has been able to support claims
that homeopathic remedies have obvious effects, of any kind, with a simple
controlled demonstration. Why is that?


The claims are false because homeopathy does not work. Basically, all it
does it give the body more time to heal. Before medicine could do anything,
back in the 1800s and before, this was really a good thing, because the old
treatments, like blood-letting did more harm than good. So, in the old days,
homeopathy was actually a good thing.

In Philadelphia, there was a medical school named after Hahnemann, called
Hahnemann Medical College. Guess what they type of medicine they taught?
Homeopathy. In the 1950s or so, they switched to teaching allopathy. Why?
Allopathy works and homeopathy doesn't.

The medical school is now part of Drexel University in Philadelphia.

Jeff

exhale

moo



  #10  
Old August 14th 06, 12:08 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Homeopathy vs allopathy - Part 2.


"Jeff" wrote in message
k.net...



The claims are false because homeopathy does not work. Basically, all it
does it give the body more time to heal. Before medicine could do
anything, back in the 1800s and before, this was really a good thing,
because the old treatments, like blood-letting did more harm than good.
So, in the old days, homeopathy was actually a good thing.

In Philadelphia, there was a medical school named after Hahnemann, called
Hahnemann Medical College. Guess what they type of medicine they taught?
Homeopathy. In the 1950s or so, they switched to teaching allopathy. Why?
Allopathy works and homeopathy doesn't.

The medical school is now part of Drexel University in Philadelphia.


********, as usual, that wasn't because it was more effective, that was
purely due to medical politics--you can read about it in:
Divided Legacy: The Conflict Between Homeopathy and the American Medical
Association by Harris L. Coulter



"Society today is paying a heavy price in disease and death for the monopoly
granted the medical profession in the 1920's. In fact, the situation
peculiarly resembles that of the 1830s when physicians relied on
bloodletting, mercurial medicines, and quinine, even though knowing them to
be intrinsically harmful And precisely the same arguments were made in
defense of these medicines as are employed today, namely, that the benefits
outweigh the risks. In truth, the benefits accrue to the physician, while
the patient runs the risks."-Harris Coulter (Divided Legacy Vol 3)


 




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