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Bad news for liars, good news for kids



 
 
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  #141  
Old January 17th 08, 05:25 AM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
Debbee
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Posts: 28
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 16, 7:40*pm, (David Wright) wrote:


Feel free to explain where I have asserted that I have the right to
control anyone other than myself.

* Its the attitude.....and your tag line....

  #142  
Old January 17th 08, 05:59 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Mark Probert
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Posts: 1,876
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Debbee wrote:
On Jan 16, 5:13 am, Mark Probert wrote:

Debbee uses many veils. It has been her tactic for years, She uses it so
she can feign deniability later on.



Yes, that is what you would think about me. You don't even know me.


I know what your antics are in the newsgroup and my comments are
specific to that. I thought a great mind like you would not need an
explanation.


The question was for Mark L, which he answered very appropriately, and
you need to
read my comments before making up garbage that simply is not true.


In my opinion, it is true.
  #143  
Old January 17th 08, 06:02 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Mark Probert
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Posts: 1,876
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Debbee wrote:
On Jan 15, 10:10 pm, Mark wrote:

Firstly, I take umbrage at your thinly veiled sneer that I make
decisions based on how some "group" thinks I should. I have been
blessed with a working brain, and I use it on a daily basis, thank you
very much.


I was referencing conventional medicine--I do believe remembering
that you are not an alternative health care advocate. No veil
there.


If the hypothetical studies have been published in peer-reviewed
journals, and there is supposedly a "strong possibility" that the
third therapy would work better than the first two, I imagine that the
oncologists (I assume you are talking about cancer...) would have
heard about it and would have an opinion of their own. I can read
about this therapy or that, but I wouldn't be so vain as to believe
that a trained pediatric oncologist knows less than I how to interpret
studies on new cancer therapies.


I guess I wasn't thinking on the lines of cancer when I wrote that
idea. But let's go ahead and use it as the diagnosis.

Curiously enough, this topic came up about 16-17 months ago. I had a
darling little girl in my practice who was dying of metastatic
neuroblastoma. The 5 doctors in the Neuroblastoma division or the
department of pediatric oncology at Sloan-Kettering in New York had
worked like devils for a year to cure this girl, but she was, frankly,
beyond hope. All conventional, and some experimental, approaches had
been exhausted.


I have a lot lately in reading about children's health, and I support
children's
charities as a volunteer. My heart pours out to the families. I can
only imagine
how tough it would be to be a doctor during times like these.
Her mother called me and then brought me copies of
"research" (actually just self-published testimonials, and not true
research) from some doctor in Colorado who actually told this poor
woman that he had treated and cured God-knows-how-many kids with
*exactly her daughter's condition.* [The nerve of this *******...]


Testimonials?? Good grief.
Mom wanted to know my opinion of this guy's approach. I don't
remember the exact details, but it involved mega-doses of vitamins,
some I had heard of and some which sounded totally fictitious. I told
Mom that I understood her desperation, but I doubted that anything
could really be done to delay the inevitable. I did tell her that
nothing on this guy's list of supplements looked harmful, so I
wouldn't try to stop her from wasting her money.


Yes, one can only imagine what parents would do in order to try and
keep going, to see if there was any therapy that would help the child.

Mom called Dr. Colorado to ask how much his treatment would cost, and
this son of a bitch responded with "Well, how much is your daughter's
life worth?" I actually called him and demanded to know what the hell
he thought he was up to, and the conversation, needless to say, went
nowhere.


That's absolutely horrible. How much is your daughter's life worth?
What
kind of answer is that? Did you help by turning the ******* into his
medical
board?
Two months and about $6,000 later, Mom still had a dying kid on her
hands. I got the call at 6:00 am when she passed.


At the least, the mother tried everything she could to help save the
life of her child; but I don't think I would have (if I had been in
her shoes),
have gone to Dr. Colorado based on "testimonials," and would have
attempted
to find help in St. Elsewhere.

That's my personal experience with miracle cures that "they" don't
want you to know about.


I can understand about parents wanting to do all that they can for
their
dying child, but unless the doctor actually has personal research and
data
to support their findings, and not "testimonials" I find that a lot of
this "miracle
cures," are hogwash. It is like shampoo that claims it can heal
"split ends,"
we all know that this is bogus.
Mark, MD


Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words
"testimonials" and think
they mean real life research and supporting evidence. You may have
saved some
other parent a costly heart ache down the road.


Sniff...sniff....I smell hypocrisy...

TestiMOANials are all about personal experience. I thought you supported
the idea that personal experience trumps science.

  #144  
Old January 17th 08, 06:06 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Mark Probert
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Posts: 1,876
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Kevysmom wrote:
Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and
desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell



I sure hope hell is big enough for all those who have harmed children.


There is a special hell for those anti-vac liars who will do and say
anything.Look at what they caused:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...ce_of_harm.php

People like you are culpable in this, as you promote the same lies and
crap that caused this.



On Jan 16, 6:49 pm, Mark wrote:
On Jan 16, 10:22 am, Debbee wrote:

snip



Thanks for your story---may it help others who see the words
"testimonials" and think
they mean real life research and supporting evidence. You may have
saved some
other parent a costly heart ache down the road.

I appreciate that. The most heart-wrenching part of this wasn't the
fact that the family got swindled out of several thousand dollars; it
was the false hope that this guy sold them. I'm a parent. If my kid
was dying, I'd grasp at straws too. But this guy apparently does it
gleefully, complete with a packaged sales pitch, and he doesn't give a
damn that he is bilking desperate people by playing on their desperate
hopes that their loved on can be saved.

There's something to be said for letting go when it's time to do so.
Thankfully, my patient's Mom reached that point before the little girl
died...barely (about 16 hours, to tell the truth.)

Swindlers and hucksters and those that prey on the weak and
desperate...these people deserve a special place in hell. It's just
despicable. That's why I'm so vehement against people like Dr.
Colorado and Hulda Clark. They are obviously selling prepackaged
****, but they'll keep doing it as long as there are suckers who will
pay.

Sorry. Ranting again.

Mark, MD


  #145  
Old January 17th 08, 12:33 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
D. C. Sessions
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Posts: 464
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

In message , David Wright wrote:

Save it. *I have plenty of friends, and a girlfriend. *Also, I've got
a bit of a history with ol' tools there. *Plus, bragging about not
having your kids vaccinated is not something I think should be taken
lightly.


Sort of like bragging about how tough your kids are, since they can
get by through the winter without shoes or winter clothing and don't
need more than a bit of gruel to eat.

--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions --------------+
  #146  
Old January 17th 08, 12:54 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
D. C. Sessions
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Posts: 464
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

In message , David Wright wrote:

The only really strange thing is that some idiot can come along and
repeat that stupid lie that MMR contains mercury. *It doesn't. *It
never did. *You'd think that even that antivax wingnuts would know
this by now. *Maybe they do and they just lie for fun.


No, they lie because it works.

If your objective is to scare parents into not letting their kids
receive the MMR, and if the "mercury in vaccines is EEEEEEEEEEVIL!"
meme is well-established, then telling them that the MMR has
mercury in it will scare off at least a few.

There's no real downside, so it's worth a try.

--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable |
| e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. |
| There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions --------------+
  #147  
Old January 18th 08, 05:45 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Jan Drew
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Posts: 2,707
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Mark Probert"
  #148  
Old January 18th 08, 05:47 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
David Wright
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Posts: 718
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

In article ,
Debbee wrote:
On Jan 16, 7:40*pm, (David Wright) wrote:


Feel free to explain where I have asserted that I have the right to
control anyone other than myself.

* Its the attitude.....and your tag line....


My tag line is insulting the president. As for the attitude, well,
you're entitled to your opinion.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?"
-- Bill Maher

  #149  
Old January 18th 08, 05:50 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Jan Drew
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Posts: 2,707
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Mark Probert"

  #150  
Old January 18th 08, 05:53 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Jan Drew
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Posts: 2,707
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Mark Probert"
I smell


 




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