RSVP (and pinatas)

Michelle J. Haines wrote:
toypup wrote:

I do think it facilitates community and communication overall. I
think its existence makes people feel like a community. It doesn't
shut any single person out who wants to be a part of that community
but not on the list. It makes the school as a whole feel like a
community.

I don't think so at all. In spite of the fact that my son's teacher
put out this list, I've only met the other parents on it incidentally
and on occasion.

Oh, I see, you haven't any interest in meeting them? Is that typical of you
all or do some like to form connections with the other parents?

My daughter's fifth grade teacher put out NO such
list (the closest he came was sending home a tree-calling list the
night before a major field trip that looked like it may be canceled
for weather, with kids' names and phone numbers only), and I have
spent much more time with those parents. Largely because of my
daughter's involvement in basketball.

Right, we all tend to spend the most time with those parents whose company
we enjoy or who we come into contact with directly through the mutual
interests of our children.

For example, in my sons school currently there is a Dad's group that is
comprised primarily of fathers of grade 5 and 6 children. It was started
years ago when some of the fathers found they had common interests and made
a choice to get together regularly for socialising. They organise family
camping trips as well. However, that's been unique in my 13 years of
association with the school and not something we'd have been particularly
interested in joining, ourselves, through my husband.

It is usual for one or two parents to host eveing get-togethers during the
year just for the parents in the year level and those are always
well-attended, the culture of our particular school seems to be to want to
form at least friendly acquaintainceships with the other parents. We have a
common interest in the welfare of our children's school and a good
proportion of parents are active in helping out in various tangible ways
which means they do come into contact regularly.

Banty wrote:
In article , Tai says...

Banty wrote:



I'm not arguing that having a list makes for *better* communication,
their absense doesn't get in the way of the truly personal
communication. It just facilitates the facile contact (like chasing
after RSVP's) and opens people up to who-knows-what.

There you go again using loaded words. "Facile" - who are you to
judge?


Facile = easy. And all of this has been about ease of contact.

The context you use it in is with words terms like "cattle call" as if ease
of contact is a bad thing. You have stated many times that the lists make it
too easy for parents to contact each other as if that's a bad thing in
itself. Just as you constantly let us know you think a large gathering of
children for a party is somehow a terrible idea and unnecessary. Mind you,
I don't recall you using the abominable word "grubfest" to describe
children's parties so I hope you don't share the contempt for the play of
children that indicates.

Btw, every time you use the term"cattle call" you expose yourself as a
shocker of a snob!




You can't say lists facilitate community and communication, AND say
that those who opt off or transfer in later aren't losing out. So
which is it? And what do you even mean by "close-knit". So I don't
think dropping kids off at a mega party a community makes.


Oh now you're just being plain silly. The lists are re-issued when
new children transfer in. Of course.


They are?? For each new transfer-in? Who DOES all this work?

The class reps, of course. The lists are issued on a year-level basis and it
doesn't take long to add a name (and take off any that are no longer
current) and distribute them. You distribute a newsletter yourself, don't
you? The amount of work involved in mantaining a contact list during the
year is minimal by comparison.
Besides, our school hardly needs a revolving door to cater for the changes
in the student body enrolment.

You seem to have a real problem in understanding that every school is
different and each develops its own customs based on the needs of families
involved. You get together with your fellow-parents and school
administration and run yours how you'd like it, but leave ours alone,
please.

toypup wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message
...
You're really stuck on these invite-in-all-the-cubbies class
parties. The lists
have *addresses* and phone numbers for party invitations.

Ours only have phone numbers. I would not put addresses on it if they
asked. That's just me. I wouldn't get upset over anyone else
sharing that info. Those people would just be more risk-tolerant
than I. Like you could with your info, I'd opt-out of sharing my
address.

Most people around here are listed in the phone book so there wouldn't be
much point in leaving off their address but it's certainly not mandatory
have any individual piece of contact information.




Not all parties are the invite all, you know. Really, this is all
about you
wanting to chase rude non-RSVPers? I don't think so.

Exactly, if it's not the invite everyone party, they will invite
whomever they want. If who they want is not on the list, they will
find a way to invite that kid, probably via cubby or backpack. If
it's the invite all party, you get the invite no matter what. No
matter what, big party, little party, whatever, your kid gets
invited. The list doesn't affect who gets invited.

Exactly.

Banty wrote:
[snip]
In that case it wasn't an apparent problem. Neither was it an apparent benefit.
It was, however, an *exposure*. Someone *may have* used the info for something
like a commercial mass-mailing later. (Who knows, maybe the time I was chased
for an RSVP is was from a list from way back in Montessori - I never did get
around to asking her how she knew my number.) Someone with an organizing bent
[snip]

I've kept all these types of lists I've had through the years, until the
point when most of the people I might want to get in touch with have
moved. So I've probably got some going back six or seven years,
possibly longer.

(For those worried about privacy, they are tucked away with my address
book, not on the fridge. But I also kept the one in the sealed
envelope, which we were only supposed to open if it was actually needed:
I haven't made use of that one.)

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Banty wrote:
[snip]
The only sales parties I've been invited to of late have been from personal
invites, and people I know well enough that it's reasonable.

But, yeah, there's a lot of people out there who don't seem to have any sense of
propriety, and *would* use a class roster for something like that. "Hey, it's
capitalism - the American way", they think (I've heard that said about stuff
like that).
[snip]

We got a phone call from someon doing some kind of market research,
wanting families with children of our son's sort of age. At the time,
I assumed they'd be given our phone number by someone I knew, but it
is more likely that they used a roster that had been out.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

toypup wrote:

Do you think the existence of the list contribute to the lack of
communication amongst the parents? Is the list for your son's class
used in lieu of other methods of contact? Is anyone on the outs because
they are not on the list? In your experience, do you feel the absence
or existence of a list has an effect on parent communication and the
sense of community or do you think that neither option affects it at all?

Well. At the beginning of the year, the teacher also informed us we
would be assigned to plan a party (we could indicate our first and
second preference), and it was our responsibility to contact the other
parents we were assigned with to properly plan it. As I promptly
informed the teacher that she was entirely capable of planning her own
parties, and if she needed my help on field trips, I would be more than
willing to chaperone, but I had no wish to plan parties, I wouldn't be,
no one has ever called me on that list for anything at all.

So no, I don't think they facilitate the sense of community you say they do.

Michelle
Flutist

Tai wrote:

Oh, I see, you haven't any interest in meeting them? Is that typical of you
all or do some like to form connections with the other parents?

Wow, that's...judgmental.

First, I haven't had a lot of -time- this year. Second, the students at
this school are spread all over the southern half of an extremely rural
county. It takes some of them an hour and a half to get to school on
the bus in the morning. Random get togethers aren't always that easy.

It is usual for one or two parents to host eveing get-togethers during the
year just for the parents in the year level and those are always
well-attended, the culture of our particular school seems to be to want to
form at least friendly acquaintainceships with the other parents. We have a
common interest in the welfare of our children's school and a good
proportion of parents are active in helping out in various tangible ways
which means they do come into contact regularly.

The parents help out quite a lot. But whether or not they come into
contact in their daily lives is another story. I probably socialize
less than a lot of the parents, because I've had a tremendous amount of
demand placed on my own time lately. Also, in the town in which I live,
there are about 25 people. And six children, four of which are mine.

Michelle
Flutist

Michelle J. Haines wrote:
Tai wrote:

Oh, I see, you haven't any interest in meeting them? Is that typical
of you all or do some like to form connections with the other
parents?

Wow, that's...judgmental.

Oh, no! I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I think there's anything
wrong with that, I was trying to work out what your needs were as far as
contact with other school parents was concerned. There are a lot of reasons
why (generic) you mightn't - too busy, too far away or just plain not
interested, which is fine anyway.

It's just that our contact needs _will_ determine how we view things like
lists, rosters, extra-curricular socialising and being cold-called to
volunteer our help etc.


First, I haven't had a lot of -time- this year. Second, the students
at this school are spread all over the southern half of an extremely
rural county. It takes some of them an hour and a half to get to
school on the bus in the morning. Random get togethers aren't always
that easy.

I see, yes, that would make it difficult.


It is usual for one or two parents to host eveing get-togethers
during the year just for the parents in the year level and those are
always well-attended, the culture of our particular school seems to
be to want to form at least friendly acquaintainceships with the
other parents. We have a common interest in the welfare of our
children's school and a good proportion of parents are active in
helping out in various tangible ways which means they do come into
contact regularly.

The parents help out quite a lot. But whether or not they come into
contact in their daily lives is another story. I probably socialize
less than a lot of the parents, because I've had a tremendous amount
of demand placed on my own time lately. Also, in the town in which I
live, there are about 25 people. And six children, four of which are
mine.

Well, sure, and I hope you didn't feel you had to defend yourself. I only do
as much for and with my children's schools as I want to and I typically want
to do considerably less than I actually could do. (Or end up doing.) I did
write this as well, "...we all tend to spend the most time with those
parents whose company we enjoy or who we come into contact with directly
through the mutual interests of our children" and that was in direct
reference to your basketball activities for your daughter.

I admit I have been a little shocked by the derisory terms used by some
people in here with respect to what they think of big parties (grubfests),
guest lists (cattle calls) and parent volunteers (Suzy Volunteer). That last
one really caught my attention because the term I am familiar with is "Suzy
Homemaker" and that is such a contemptuous term. "Suzy Volunteer" seems just
as uncalled for, to me, and would be judged as being very offensive if used
to a woman's face here. The tone from some has been that for some posters
the busy, chatty, social types are somehow to be despised and I think that's
very unfair.

In article , toypup says...



"Banty" wrote in message
...
You're really stuck on these invite-in-all-the-cubbies class parties. The
lists
have *addresses* and phone numbers for party invitations.

Ours only have phone numbers. I would not put addresses on it if they
asked. That's just me. I wouldn't get upset over anyone else sharing that
info. Those people would just be more risk-tolerant than I. Like you could
with your info, I'd opt-out of sharing my address.


Not all parties are the invite all, you know. Really, this is all about
you
wanting to chase rude non-RSVPers? I don't think so.

Exactly, if it's not the invite everyone party, they will invite whomever
they want. If who they want is not on the list, they will find a way to
invite that kid, probably via cubby or backpack. If it's the invite all
party, you get the invite no matter what. No matter what, big party, little
party, whatever, your kid gets invited. The list doesn't affect who gets
invited.

OK so you're saying that, on one hand, a roster list is essential to get to know
who some of the parents are and because it's too burdensome to get notes to
individual families and write out invitations from the returns. THEN, you're
saying that any family that opts out won't be affected because they'll
(individually and as an exception) be invited because anyone else will go
through the same efforts you find so burdensome a roster list is needed.

Uh huh. Not only is this contradictory, but, given an apparently complete
roster, very many people who would otherwise be happy to go to some effort to
put together their own party list will not go beyond that.

Look, we're going around in circles. You and Tai will very simply NOT
acknowledge what the concerns are; you're even contradicting yourself in trying
to address them.

Just admit it - you LIKE the rosters, you'd have them whatever others' concerns
are. Good thing you have a teacher or administration that's wiser than you.

Banty

In article , Tai says...


I admit I have been a little shocked by the derisory terms used by some
people in here with respect to what they think of big parties (grubfests),
guest lists (cattle calls) and parent volunteers (Suzy Volunteer). That last
one really caught my attention because the term I am familiar with is "Suzy
Homemaker" and that is such a contemptuous term. "Suzy Volunteer" seems just
as uncalled for, to me, and would be judged as being very offensive if used
to a woman's face here. The tone from some has been that for some posters
the busy, chatty, social types are somehow to be despised and I think that's
very unfair.

I said "Suzy Volunteer". Ericka said the 'grubfest' and 'cattle call'. I and
I'm pretty sure Ericka aren't referring to *any* volunteer (goodness knows I've
been a volunteer most of my life, like for Scouts and two volunteer Ambulance
Corps!) or any large party. We're referring to *excesses*.

There have been threads in the past regarding how the large birthday parties
*can* (not always do - *can*) get. And how they seem to be de riguer as kids'
expectations are built up by the celebrations they go to.

And if you haven't met the over-zealous parent volunteer, you're quite lucky.

Banty