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A teenager question



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 8th 03, 06:29 PM
blacksalt
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Default A teenager question

Karen wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:01:32 -0400, "dejablues"
wrote:

FWIW, I would't kick any of my children out unless they were repeat
criminals.


Absolutely agreed: Kicking a child out of the nest before adulthood
(he's still a minor, for god's sakes!) is harsh and in this case it
sounds unnecessary.


I left home at 16 and it was the best thing I ever did. My mother used
to say "whose bread you eat, his song you sing". One day I said "okay,
I'll eat my own bread". A 17.5 year old "child" could join the military,
marry, etc. I became more responsible looking out for myself, keeping my
own hours, getting myself up, keeping a job, etc.
I see some older teens lingering at home for what I call "the money
teat". They get snow boards and weekends on the slopes, etc. if they
stay home and fight with their parents over hours, grades, etc. I didn't
have a phone, a car, designer underware, and tie dyed hair, but I had my
independence and dignity. So glad my parents never offered me "the money
teat" to keep me around.
My parents were always happy to see me, and took my collect calls until
I could afford my weekly call to them, but never panicked or fussed. I
hope I am as brave and calm when the time comes, as I come from a family
of "early leavers".
  #2  
Old July 8th 03, 07:08 PM
Karen
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Default A teenager question

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:01:32 -0400, "dejablues"
wrote:

FWIW, I would't kick any of my children out unless they were repeat
criminals.



Absolutely agreed: Kicking a child out of the nest before adulthood
(he's still a minor, for god's sakes!) is harsh and in this case it
sounds unnecessary.

I can certainly see his frustrated parents requiring this young man to
get a job and chip in for some share of his room and board if he
refuses to continue with school, but I think "kicking him out" is an
absolute last resort for a child who is really a danger to the family
- not someone going through a tough late adolescence.

My mother's heart would never allow me to do something like that.

Karen


--
The Orange Cat: Calendar, advice & tips for busy families in the San Gabriel Valley
www.theorangecat.org
  #3  
Old July 8th 03, 08:28 PM
Rosalie B.
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Default A teenager question

x-no-archive:yes
blacksalt wrote:

Karen wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:01:32 -0400, "dejablues"
wrote:

FWIW, I would't kick any of my children out unless they were repeat
criminals.


Absolutely agreed: Kicking a child out of the nest before adulthood
(he's still a minor, for god's sakes!) is harsh and in this case it
sounds unnecessary.


I left home at 16 and it was the best thing I ever did. My mother used
to say "whose bread you eat, his song you sing". One day I said "okay,
I'll eat my own bread". A 17.5 year old "child" could join the military,
marry, etc. I became more responsible looking out for myself, keeping my
own hours, getting myself up, keeping a job, etc.


There is a BIG BIG difference between your saying "I'll eat my own
bread" and having your mom kick you out. It was YOUR choice and not
HER choice. She said, quite correctly that in her house it was her
rules. You didn't want to abide by the rules, so you left. She
allowed you to exercise that option.

That's quite different (although it looks the same on the surface
perhaps) to someone saying GET OUT - I just can't stand that you won't
do your schoolwork any longer so you can't live here anymore..

I see some older teens lingering at home for what I call "the money
teat". They get snow boards and weekends on the slopes, etc. if they
stay home and fight with their parents over hours, grades, etc. I didn't


Those teens are being enabled by their parents to dependency. There
has to be some middle ground between giving a teen whatever money they
want and allowing them to do whatever they want (or just arguing about
it when they don't do what you want) and kicking them out altogether.

have a phone, a car, designer underware, and tie dyed hair, but I had my
independence and dignity. So glad my parents never offered me "the money
teat" to keep me around.


Yes that would be bad.

My parents were always happy to see me, and took my collect calls until
I could afford my weekly call to them, but never panicked or fussed. I
hope I am as brave and calm when the time comes, as I come from a family
of "early leavers".


That's the best kind of parenting - allowing the teen to learn from
their own mistakes. It took my son a lot longer than I would have
liked to realize that he needed an education. But he's finally
getting down to it.


grandma Rosalie
  #4  
Old July 8th 03, 08:56 PM
blacksalt
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Default A teenager question

"Rosalie B." wrote:

There is a BIG BIG difference between your saying "I'll eat my own
bread" and having your mom kick you out. It was YOUR choice and not
HER choice. She said, quite correctly that in her house it was her
rules. You didn't want to abide by the rules, so you left. She
allowed you to exercise that option.

That's quite different (although it looks the same on the surface
perhaps) to someone saying GET OUT - I just can't stand that you won't
do your schoolwork any longer so you can't live here anymore..


Was it a matter of changing the locks and calling the police to keep a
17.5 year old out, or merely saying "these are the basic rules, and if
you leave if you don't want to follow them" and the kid saying "see ya
later"? I didn't get the feeling that physical force was involved
(actually "kicking out").
  #5  
Old July 8th 03, 10:36 PM
Rosalie B.
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Default A teenager question

x-no-archive:yes blacksalt wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote:

There is a BIG BIG difference between your saying "I'll eat my own
bread" and having your mom kick you out. It was YOUR choice and not
HER choice. She said, quite correctly that in her house it was her
rules. You didn't want to abide by the rules, so you left. She
allowed you to exercise that option.

That's quite different (although it looks the same on the surface
perhaps) to someone saying GET OUT - I just can't stand that you won't
do your schoolwork any longer so you can't live here anymore..


Was it a matter of changing the locks and calling the police to keep a
17.5 year old out, or merely saying "these are the basic rules, and if
you leave if you don't want to follow them" and the kid saying "see ya
later"? I didn't get the feeling that physical force was involved
(actually "kicking out").


I don't think changing locks was involved, but I did get the idea that
a certain amount of psychic force was involved. Not fisticuffs or
anything like that - maybe putting his stuff out on the lawn or
something similar. In any case what was written here was

A friend just threw her 17.5 year old son out of the house.


I read that as more than just saying if you don't like the rules
leave, and not quite as much as changing the locks and calling the
police.

Of course you may be right - later she said:

... He said he was going to drop out
of school. She said that was fine, but if he was no longer under parental
authority then he needed to leave home.
He left, his stuff is all out of the house.


So it looks like she equated being in school and parental authority,
which I disagreed with. I think one needs to know when to let go, and
I certainly don't advocate letting the kid freeload on the parents,
but I never had any kids that did that (up to now anyway, and my
youngest is now 32.






grandma Rosalie
  #6  
Old July 9th 03, 04:03 AM
R. Steve Walz
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Default A teenager question

Rosalie B. wrote:

x-no-archive:yes blacksalt wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote:

There is a BIG BIG difference between your saying "I'll eat my own
bread" and having your mom kick you out. It was YOUR choice and not
HER choice. She said, quite correctly that in her house it was her
rules. You didn't want to abide by the rules, so you left. She
allowed you to exercise that option.

That's quite different (although it looks the same on the surface
perhaps) to someone saying GET OUT - I just can't stand that you won't
do your schoolwork any longer so you can't live here anymore..


Was it a matter of changing the locks and calling the police to keep a
17.5 year old out, or merely saying "these are the basic rules, and if
you leave if you don't want to follow them" and the kid saying "see ya
later"? I didn't get the feeling that physical force was involved
(actually "kicking out").


I don't think changing locks was involved, but I did get the idea that
a certain amount of psychic force was involved. Not fisticuffs or
anything like that - maybe putting his stuff out on the lawn or
something similar. In any case what was written here was

A friend just threw her 17.5 year old son out of the house.

------------------------
Illegal in all 50 states of the USA. Have to wait till they're 18.
But then, even so, you may lose your child and heritage for life.
Steve
  #7  
Old July 11th 03, 10:37 PM
Wendy Marsden
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Default A teenager question

dejablues wrote:
"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...

By the way, I left home at the same age.


Was that to go college, that your parents were paying for?


Nice point. No, my parents didn't pay a dime of my education. My Dad
started paying me an allowance after I turned 18 that was equivalent to
the money he had been paying my mother in child support. It went towards
groceries (but didn't cover them.) I worked to support myself.

Wendy

  #8  
Old July 11th 03, 10:56 PM
Wendy Marsden
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Default A teenager question

Rosalie B. wrote:

I am somewhat disturbed by the fact that you (Wendy) seem so defensive
when people disagree with your friend's action. Most of the attacking
I've seen has been you saying as above that you don't think the people
responding know what they are talking about because their children are
not that old yet. It is as if you are almost as heavily invested in
this mother's problem as if it was your own. I do not understand why
this is so. Can she not be wrong?


I was hoping to get some insight into this to share with her and I'm well
aware that she won't be able to read people picking apart her parenting -
sh's been called unwise, told she failed at listening, ruled in a
black/white way, through him out for breaking ONE rule(!) and various
other characterizations that would upset her needlessly. I am
defending her feelings in advance. I'm positive that she isn't interested
in hashing over how she could have handled the previous year leading up to
this.

Reading this thread I'm aware now that I won't be able to print it
out for her, but I can digest stuff from it and offer it to her as if I
thought of it myself. :-) (My guess is that she would not be thrilled to
have her life exposed on usenet and this was probably a bad idea, though I
changed enough pertinent characteristics in that she wouldn't be
identifiable.)


As to what she should do now - I would let it be known through the
grapevine that she's willing to let him come home as long as he pays
room and board out of his earnings, and also his car expenses
including insurance. My in-laws built my dh's room with a separate
entrance so he could come and go without going through the main house.


If he cannot manage that, then there is a problem which will have to
be addressed, but at least at that point they will be talking.


They were talking all along. The thing that lead to his leaving was his
failure to keep any of his agreements. You can say in retrospect that "he
didn't buy into it" as if that makes the agreement null and void, but
these people are not black and white authoritarians. It's true that they
are a family of "early leavers". As far as I know they don't pay for
college, for example. (They might help, though, I'm not sure.)

So what would lead them to think they he would pay the room and
board? For all I know that's one of the things he failed at.

These people are neither hypocritical nor money-hungry. I don't see why
saying it's okay for someone to stay if they pay room and board makes
sense. If he's not willing to live by house rules then he needs to find
another house or they DO become hypocritical.

Wendy
  #9  
Old July 11th 03, 11:05 PM
Wendy Marsden
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Default A teenager question

Marijke wrote:

Again, I'm so curious as to why you're angry that very few people are
agreeing with your friend.


Sorry, Marijke, I've been here long enough to realize that the thread was
definitely going to draw more criticism than helpful advice. I really
like the way usenet comes up with different perspectives on a
problem.

But I really, really didn't want it to be all about whether she is a good
parent or not. I wanted to steer the conversation WELL AWAY from picking
her apart. I know she won't be able to bear it - she has no experience
with a place where you post your life's most awful traumas and have people
stomp all over you. *I* know this and should have expected it.

I also understand how these threads sort of become a case study for us to
explore how we want to handle these things in our own lives. That's part
of why I posted it, in fact, because I want to explore how to handle the
scenario of a kid who isn't following house rules. She's living it, but I
have two pre-teens and I'm paying close attention to how to handle this.

Wendy
  #10  
Old July 11th 03, 11:35 PM
Wendy Marsden
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Default A teenager question

dragonlady wrote:

I know this is long, but I'll go back to what I said at the beginning.
The most important thing, to me, is absolute, unconditional love. That
means I love my kids no matter WHAT I think of what they are doing. It
also means (for me) that they always have a home with me, unless they
are behaving in ways that endanger themselves or others, in which case I
will have to try to find someplace for them to live that is safe.


Thanks for a great post!!! I really loved your story and it helps me to
see different ways to handle the rules. Thank you.

Wendy
 




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