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Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who helda lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 17th 07, 08:50 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
fx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,848
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who helda lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...

Justices uphold Merit board clout in firing of DYFS worker
Tuesday, July 17, 2007
BY KATE COSCARELLI
Star-Ledger Staff

http://www.nj.com/printer/printer.ss...780.xml&coll=1

In a ruling affecting tens of thousands of public employees in New
Jersey, the state Supreme Court ruled yesterday a government agency can
fire a worker for an egregious act without first going through other
levels of discipline.

The 6-0 decision gave heft to the power of the state's Merit System
Board, which handles disciplinary proceedings and other issues related
to civil service law.

The court ruled the 2001 firing of a Division of Youth and Family
Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's
face during an interview was supported by the record and not illegal or
unreasonable.

The board's decision "recognized legitimate public policy reasons for
not insisting" that the DYFS give the worker another chance, wrote
Justice Jaynee LaVecchia for the court.

Over 80 percent of the state's 84,400 workers are subject to the Merit
System Board, as are many municipal and county employees.

State Department of Personnel Commissioner Ronald Torres, who is also
chair of the Merit System Board, said he was gratified the court upheld
the board's decision.

"The decision to terminate a public employee's job is not taken lightly,
but the public interest is paramount, and in this case, the Merit System
Board concluded, after a full hearing ... that (the worker's) misconduct
was incompatible with the difficult and sensitive mission of DYFS,"
Torres said. DYFS officials also said they were pleased with the decision.

The case involved DYFS trainee Tammy Herrmann, who was assigned to
interview a family regarding an allegation of child abuse related to a 5
1/2-year-old child who had started a fire in the family's home.

Herrmann interviewed the family's children in a bedroom of the home. The
room had oxygen tanks because of the medical conditions of two other
children in the home.

Either in the bedroom or in a nearby hallway, Herrmann asked the child
what kind of lighter was used to start the fire. When the boy didn't
answer, she pulled out a cigarette lighter from her bag, ignited it and
waved it in front of his face.

At a later visit, Herrmann told the boy's parents that he was fascinated
by the lighter and may have a propensity to start fires. When told this,
the parents expressed concern that the lighter could have ignited the
oxygen tanks.

The DYFS charged Herrmann with conduct unbecoming a public employee and
sought to fire her. An administrative law judge who held a hearing on
the matter agreed, and the Merit System Board also upheld the termination.

On appeal, an Appellate Division panel found that the idea of
progressive discipline should have applied and Herrmann should have
received a lesser punishment.

Yesterday, the high court found the appeals judges exceeded their
authority and reinstated the termination. Although progressive
discipline is a recognized concept, it does not need to be applied to
every case, LaVecchia wrote.

"This case implicates the public interest in that it reflects the
standards of judgment, as well as performance, that DYFS expects of its
workers who are sent out into the field," LaVecchia wrote.

The court said that since the board's decision was not unreasonable or
illegal, the justices would not interfere with it, regardless of whether
they would have reached the same conclusion.

Daniel McNerney, Herrmann's attorney, said he was disappointed with the
ruling and said his client is now working a retail job.

Kate Coscarelli may be reached at or (973)
392-4147.




CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...
  #2  
Old July 18th 07, 05:02 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...

So she was investigating possible abuse of a kid who
was a firebug, and did this as she was asking the kid
what kind of lighter they used??

How come she isn't also being criminally charged with child abuse?

On Jul 17, 2:50 am, fx wrote:
Justices uphold Merit board clout in firing of DYFS worker
Tuesday, July 17, 2007
BY KATE COSCARELLI
Star-Ledger Staff

http://www.nj.com/printer/printer.ss...64650689780.xm...

In a ruling affecting tens of thousands of public employees in New
Jersey, the state Supreme Court ruled yesterday a government agency can
fire a worker for an egregious act without first going through other
levels of discipline.

The 6-0 decision gave heft to the power of the state's Merit System
Board, which handles disciplinary proceedings and other issues related
to civil service law.

The court ruled the 2001 firing of a Division of Youth and Family
Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's
face during an interview was supported by the record and not illegal or
unreasonable.

The board's decision "recognized legitimate public policy reasons for
not insisting" that the DYFS give the worker another chance, wrote
Justice Jaynee LaVecchia for the court.

Over 80 percent of the state's 84,400 workers are subject to the Merit
System Board, as are many municipal and county employees.

State Department of Personnel Commissioner Ronald Torres, who is also
chair of the Merit System Board, said he was gratified the court upheld
the board's decision.

"The decision to terminate a public employee's job is not taken lightly,
but the public interest is paramount, and in this case, the Merit System
Board concluded, after a full hearing ... that (the worker's) misconduct
was incompatible with the difficult and sensitive mission of DYFS,"
Torres said. DYFS officials also said they were pleased with the decision.

The case involved DYFS trainee Tammy Herrmann, who was assigned to
interview a family regarding an allegation of child abuse related to a 5
1/2-year-old child who had started a fire in the family's home.

Herrmann interviewed the family's children in a bedroom of the home. The
room had oxygen tanks because of the medical conditions of two other
children in the home.

Either in the bedroom or in a nearby hallway, Herrmann asked the child
what kind of lighter was used to start the fire. When the boy didn't
answer, she pulled out a cigarette lighter from her bag, ignited it and
waved it in front of his face.

At a later visit, Herrmann told the boy's parents that he was fascinated
by the lighter and may have a propensity to start fires. When told this,
the parents expressed concern that the lighter could have ignited the
oxygen tanks.

The DYFS charged Herrmann with conduct unbecoming a public employee and
sought to fire her. An administrative law judge who held a hearing on
the matter agreed, and the Merit System Board also upheld the termination.

On appeal, an Appellate Division panel found that the idea of
progressive discipline should have applied and Herrmann should have
received a lesser punishment.

Yesterday, the high court found the appeals judges exceeded their
authority and reinstated the termination. Although progressive
discipline is a recognized concept, it does not need to be applied to
every case, LaVecchia wrote.

"This case implicates the public interest in that it reflects the
standards of judgment, as well as performance, that DYFS expects of its
workers who are sent out into the field," LaVecchia wrote.

The court said that since the board's decision was not unreasonable or
illegal, the justices would not interfere with it, regardless of whether
they would have reached the same conclusion.

Daniel McNerney, Herrmann's attorney, said he was disappointed with the
ruling and said his client is now working a retail job.

Kate Coscarelli may be reached at or (973)
392-4147.

CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...



  #3  
Old July 21st 07, 02:09 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
Dan Sullivan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,687
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...


"Greegor" wrote in message
ups.com...
So she was investigating possible abuse of a kid who
was a firebug, and did this as she was asking the kid
what kind of lighter they used??

How come she isn't also being criminally charged with child abuse?


Probably for a better reason than you not being criminally charged with
child abuse, Greg.

On Jul 17, 2:50 am, fx wrote:
Justices uphold Merit board clout in firing of DYFS worker
Tuesday, July 17, 2007
BY KATE COSCARELLI
Star-Ledger Staff

http://www.nj.com/printer/printer.ss...64650689780.xm...

In a ruling affecting tens of thousands of public employees in New
Jersey, the state Supreme Court ruled yesterday a government agency can
fire a worker for an egregious act without first going through other
levels of discipline.

The 6-0 decision gave heft to the power of the state's Merit System
Board, which handles disciplinary proceedings and other issues related
to civil service law.

The court ruled the 2001 firing of a Division of Youth and Family
Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's
face during an interview was supported by the record and not illegal or
unreasonable.

The board's decision "recognized legitimate public policy reasons for
not insisting" that the DYFS give the worker another chance, wrote
Justice Jaynee LaVecchia for the court.

Over 80 percent of the state's 84,400 workers are subject to the Merit
System Board, as are many municipal and county employees.

State Department of Personnel Commissioner Ronald Torres, who is also
chair of the Merit System Board, said he was gratified the court upheld
the board's decision.

"The decision to terminate a public employee's job is not taken lightly,
but the public interest is paramount, and in this case, the Merit System
Board concluded, after a full hearing ... that (the worker's) misconduct
was incompatible with the difficult and sensitive mission of DYFS,"
Torres said. DYFS officials also said they were pleased with the
decision.

The case involved DYFS trainee Tammy Herrmann, who was assigned to
interview a family regarding an allegation of child abuse related to a 5
1/2-year-old child who had started a fire in the family's home.

Herrmann interviewed the family's children in a bedroom of the home. The
room had oxygen tanks because of the medical conditions of two other
children in the home.

Either in the bedroom or in a nearby hallway, Herrmann asked the child
what kind of lighter was used to start the fire. When the boy didn't
answer, she pulled out a cigarette lighter from her bag, ignited it and
waved it in front of his face.

At a later visit, Herrmann told the boy's parents that he was fascinated
by the lighter and may have a propensity to start fires. When told this,
the parents expressed concern that the lighter could have ignited the
oxygen tanks.

The DYFS charged Herrmann with conduct unbecoming a public employee and
sought to fire her. An administrative law judge who held a hearing on
the matter agreed, and the Merit System Board also upheld the
termination.

On appeal, an Appellate Division panel found that the idea of
progressive discipline should have applied and Herrmann should have
received a lesser punishment.

Yesterday, the high court found the appeals judges exceeded their
authority and reinstated the termination. Although progressive
discipline is a recognized concept, it does not need to be applied to
every case, LaVecchia wrote.

"This case implicates the public interest in that it reflects the
standards of judgment, as well as performance, that DYFS expects of its
workers who are sent out into the field," LaVecchia wrote.

The court said that since the board's decision was not unreasonable or
illegal, the justices would not interfere with it, regardless of whether
they would have reached the same conclusion.

Daniel McNerney, Herrmann's attorney, said he was disappointed with the
ruling and said his client is now working a retail job.

Kate Coscarelli may be reached at or (973)
392-4147.

CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...





  #4  
Old July 21st 07, 02:44 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
0:]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee whoheld a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...

Greegor wrote:
So she was investigating possible abuse of a kid who
was a firebug, and did this as she was asking the kid
what kind of lighter they used??

How come she isn't also being criminally charged with child abuse?


What would have been the abuse?

Let's review what we know from the article.

Herrmann interviewed the family's children in a bedroom of the home. The
room had oxygen tanks because of the medical conditions of two other
children in the home.

Either in the bedroom or in a nearby hallway, Herrmann asked the child
what kind of lighter was used to start the fire. When the boy didn't
answer, she pulled out a cigarette lighter from her bag, ignited it and
waved it in front of his face.

At a later visit, Herrmann told the boy's parents that he was fascinated
by the lighter and may have a propensity to start fires. When told this,
the parents expressed concern that the lighter could have ignited the
oxygen tanks.


By the way, I've worked in a hospital as the buildings superintendent,
and supervisor of my unit, which included laundry services, food
service, all hospital sanitation and antiseptic ORs and ERs and delivery
and nurseries. And among my duties, the recharging transfer of all O2
and other gases used in the hospital.

O2 does not burn.

It will FEED a fire. But will NOT ignite.

You cannot 'ignite' an oxygen tank. You can make, if you direct a stream
of oxygen against a lighter, the lighter flare up somewhat, but nothing
more will happen.

That's why folks are advised not to smoke when they are being
administered O2. Not because the tank will ignite, but because the coal
on the end of the cig might burn more and go to flame. The lighter
already has a flame. It would simply burn somewhat brighter....but not
in open hallways, or even in the same room. Not enough to measure with
naked eye.

I question the new employee's judgement concerning the meaning of a
child being fascinated by fire (how many little kids do you know that
are not?) but not the use of the lighter as "abuse."

Lousy Dx, but she did say "may have a propensity to start fires" which
of course is redundant...as he had already been established as have SET
a fire.

Your logic, by way of your uninformed question would...

.... make parents 'abusive' for any mistake of any kind they made.
Including showing a child a burning lighter.

Had a parent done what the worker did, and CPS intervened with that as
cause of "abuse" you'd be screaming your head off, would you not, Greg?

And if it got as far as court, I'd be happy to show up with some O2 and
demonstrate one cannot "ignite" a tank of it. Not with a cigarette
lighter or anything else that did not already have a substantial fuel
source of it's own to light off...which a cigarette lighter does not.

http://www.lincare.com/patientedu/oxygenhome.html
.... Is there anything I cannot do while using oxygen?
You can do anything that you would normally do, except for those things
that would bring you within five feet of an open flame, a burning
cigarette or an electrical appliance that sparks. Actually you may find
that you will be able to do some activities while using oxygen that you
could not do without it.

Are there any hazards involved in using oxygen?
While oxygen does not burn, anything that can burn will do so more
easily and more rapidly in an oxygen-rich environment. Therefore, do not
use oxygen near an open flame, burning cigarette or electrical equipment
that sparks during operation. ...

And of course a hospital is going to overstate the case on the side of
safety.

Was the worker burning anything, other than the flame of a lighter?

And did the article say she was within five feet of O2 being
administered to anyone?

Now show us the abuse that should have resulted in criminal charges.

0:]




On Jul 17, 2:50 am, fx wrote:
Justices uphold Merit board clout in firing of DYFS worker
Tuesday, July 17, 2007
BY KATE COSCARELLI
Star-Ledger Staff

http://www.nj.com/printer/printer.ss...64650689780.xm...

In a ruling affecting tens of thousands of public employees in New
Jersey, the state Supreme Court ruled yesterday a government agency can
fire a worker for an egregious act without first going through other
levels of discipline.

The 6-0 decision gave heft to the power of the state's Merit System
Board, which handles disciplinary proceedings and other issues related
to civil service law.

The court ruled the 2001 firing of a Division of Youth and Family
Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's
face during an interview was supported by the record and not illegal or
unreasonable.

The board's decision "recognized legitimate public policy reasons for
not insisting" that the DYFS give the worker another chance, wrote
Justice Jaynee LaVecchia for the court.

Over 80 percent of the state's 84,400 workers are subject to the Merit
System Board, as are many municipal and county employees.

State Department of Personnel Commissioner Ronald Torres, who is also
chair of the Merit System Board, said he was gratified the court upheld
the board's decision.

"The decision to terminate a public employee's job is not taken lightly,
but the public interest is paramount, and in this case, the Merit System
Board concluded, after a full hearing ... that (the worker's) misconduct
was incompatible with the difficult and sensitive mission of DYFS,"
Torres said. DYFS officials also said they were pleased with the decision.

The case involved DYFS trainee Tammy Herrmann, who was assigned to
interview a family regarding an allegation of child abuse related to a 5
1/2-year-old child who had started a fire in the family's home.

Herrmann interviewed the family's children in a bedroom of the home. The
room had oxygen tanks because of the medical conditions of two other
children in the home.

Either in the bedroom or in a nearby hallway, Herrmann asked the child
what kind of lighter was used to start the fire. When the boy didn't
answer, she pulled out a cigarette lighter from her bag, ignited it and
waved it in front of his face.

At a later visit, Herrmann told the boy's parents that he was fascinated
by the lighter and may have a propensity to start fires. When told this,
the parents expressed concern that the lighter could have ignited the
oxygen tanks.

The DYFS charged Herrmann with conduct unbecoming a public employee and
sought to fire her. An administrative law judge who held a hearing on
the matter agreed, and the Merit System Board also upheld the termination.

On appeal, an Appellate Division panel found that the idea of
progressive discipline should have applied and Herrmann should have
received a lesser punishment.

Yesterday, the high court found the appeals judges exceeded their
authority and reinstated the termination. Although progressive
discipline is a recognized concept, it does not need to be applied to
every case, LaVecchia wrote.

"This case implicates the public interest in that it reflects the
standards of judgment, as well as performance, that DYFS expects of its
workers who are sent out into the field," LaVecchia wrote.

The court said that since the board's decision was not unreasonable or
illegal, the justices would not interfere with it, regardless of whether
they would have reached the same conclusion.

Daniel McNerney, Herrmann's attorney, said he was disappointed with the
ruling and said his client is now working a retail job.

Kate Coscarelli may be reached at or (973)
392-4147.

CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...



  #5  
Old July 21st 07, 02:11 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
trinzach
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...

O2 does not burn.

It will FEED a fire. But will NOT ignite.

You cannot 'ignite' an oxygen tank. You can make, if you direct a stream
of oxygen against a lighter, the lighter flare up somewhat, but nothing
more will happen.


This common misconception may very well have played a card in
Hermann's initial determination with the Merit System Board which
resulted in termination. Progressive discipline is a new term for
me... learn new stuff all the time... and worth exploring. I,
personally, see nothing wrong with what she did. I think her heart
was in the right place. Ultimately, she was trying to get help for
the boy AND keep the family safe. Shame politics worked against her.

The court said that since the board's decision was not unreasonable or illegal, the justices
would not interfere with it, regardless of whether they would have reached the same conclusion.


Unfortunately, the State Supreme Court wasn't reviewing the merits of
the case, but rather the legitimacy of the Board to make decisions --
and have them be lasting ones. I fear that, albeit wonderful in
theory, such Boards are often driven politically within
organizations. The true merits are ignored and opinions tainted.
Call me jaded, but I hear nothing but lousy reviews over such tools --
they just don't work the way they're meant to. The SC focuses on the
written word and interpretations and not the misapplication.

Like assholes, I have one. LOL. My two cents.

  #6  
Old July 21st 07, 02:16 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
trinzach
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...


abolish and replace with? part of the reason I'm pro-planned
parenthood and contraception is the increasingly burdened system of
DYFS/CPS. have the babies and then ???? just because women have the
ability to have children DOESN'T mean they should!

Again, two cents.


  #7  
Old July 21st 07, 02:45 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
Dan Sullivan
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Posts: 1,687
Default Firing of a Division of Youth and Family Services trainee who held a lit cigarette lighter in front of a child's face...


"trinzach" wrote in message
oups.com...
O2 does not burn.

It will FEED a fire. But will NOT ignite.

You cannot 'ignite' an oxygen tank. You can make, if you direct a stream
of oxygen against a lighter, the lighter flare up somewhat, but nothing
more will happen.


This common misconception may very well have played a card in
Hermann's initial determination with the Merit System Board which
resulted in termination. Progressive discipline is a new term for
me... learn new stuff all the time... and worth exploring. I,
personally, see nothing wrong with what she did. I think her heart
was in the right place. Ultimately, she was trying to get help for
the boy AND keep the family safe.


What part does waving a lit cigarette lighter in the boy's face play in
getting help for the boy or keeping his family safe?

The 5 year old boy needed to understand how dangerous and life threatening
it is to use cigarette lighters for anything other than lighting cigarettes.

And some trainee from CPS waved a lit one in his face!

It couldn't possibly make any difference in the CPS investigation knowing
which "kind" of cigarette lighter the boy used.

Shame politics worked against her.

The court said that since the board's decision was not unreasonable or
illegal, the justices
would not interfere with it, regardless of whether they would have
reached the same conclusion.


Unfortunately, the State Supreme Court wasn't reviewing the merits of
the case, but rather the legitimacy of the Board to make decisions --
and have them be lasting ones. I fear that, albeit wonderful in
theory, such Boards are often driven politically within
organizations. The true merits are ignored and opinions tainted.
Call me jaded, but I hear nothing but lousy reviews over such tools --
they just don't work the way they're meant to. The SC focuses on the
written word and interpretations and not the misapplication.

Like assholes, I have one. LOL. My two cents.


What benefit or merit is there for CPS to know which kind of lighter was
used?



 




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