CS, salary and which way to go?

On Apr 2, 6:34*pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"whatamess" wrote in message

...
On Apr 2, 11:35 am, "jwhit" u42483@uwe wrote:





Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for
DCSE
in Virginia. I know her name but do not kow their format!

scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is all crazy...Actually, my mother who has always been the "poor
woman,
men are scum and should have to pay" has harassed me quite a bit about
the whole CS mess and me complaining. Her view was that you paid a
percentage
of your income, but that it was a reasonable percentage...that if you
changed jobs,
like in our case, due to move, etc...that they automatically reduced
the CS...that
the only thing counted in CS was normal wages, and you could deduct
your 401K
money, your retirement savings, the costs for YOUR stuff, house, blah,
blah...

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. *And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no judge
would allow that to happen. *Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. *And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bob...oh yes, my mother had that view as well. Although I have told
her
otherwise, I have a feeling she still thinks I'm lying...

But yes, a while ago she did mention that it couldn't be so bad
because
we got the tax deduction...she also said it was IMPOSSIBLE for a judge
to impute income...She also thinks we have a great chance to get
custody because it is just so darn easy for a man...And yes, she also
has stated that it can't be so much because "don't we look at the
RECEIPTS"
to ensure it is spent on the kid...AMAZING...

On Apr 2, 6:34*pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"whatamess" wrote in message

...
On Apr 2, 11:35 am, "jwhit" u42483@uwe wrote:





Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for
DCSE
in Virginia. I know her name but do not kow their format!

scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is all crazy...Actually, my mother who has always been the "poor
woman,
men are scum and should have to pay" has harassed me quite a bit about
the whole CS mess and me complaining. Her view was that you paid a
percentage
of your income, but that it was a reasonable percentage...that if you
changed jobs,
like in our case, due to move, etc...that they automatically reduced
the CS...that
the only thing counted in CS was normal wages, and you could deduct
your 401K
money, your retirement savings, the costs for YOUR stuff, house, blah,
blah...

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. *And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no judge
would allow that to happen. *Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. *And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You know, I'll tell you...my poor uncle, my MOTHER's brother, had a CS
case years ago...I'm 39 and my cousin is my age...her parents divorced
when we were around 5 years of age...AT THAT TIME, idiot ex-wife
married
a LAWYER...my uncle worked for IBM...he was told to pay 600USD a month
in child support for 2 children!!! Can you imagine what 600USD a
month
were 30 years ago? Needless to say, he did for a while, but when he
lost his
job, he couldn't...he tried as much as he could until he gave up and
started
taking odd jobs and moving every year or so to avoid jail...Meanwhile,
EVEN
WHEN HE PAID...his idiot ex-wife would not allow him to see the
kids...
I remember many days he would tell us he was going to pick them up and
would then return to my grandmother's house without them...idiot mom
would make up a story how they went out, blah, blah...ALL THESE YEARS
my mother has defended that witch! All these years...by the way, her
lawyer husband passed away a couple of years ago and she actually
had the nerve to tell my mother to tell my uncle that she was again
SINGLE
and NOW HAD LOTS OF MONEY...to call her anytime...Can you imagine???
Anyway, I have a theory that sometimes when we are unjust to people,
we
either pay for it (Karma) or we pay for it through seeing our kids
struggle
with whatever we were unjust about...IE. she's now seeing how unfair
it is to me and my son...

On Apr 2, 6:34 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no judge
would allow that to happen. Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.

yeah...I think this is what bothers me the most. I've been in some
form of NCP group for 14 years now; my extortion...oops...I mean my
parental obligation (insane systems become parabolic when confronted
with reality)...will end (in theory) in 2.3 years when my son is 22
and 1/2.

The general public (those not gaining or losing from the CS insanity)
has deep pre-conceived notions based on belief in some 5th grade
civics class about the freedom and rights guaranteed to all citizens.
Even when you prove to them just what is happening to you then the
most you get is just kind of a dazed look and a shrug. Which I guess I
can't blame them for since it's not their life being shredded. But I
don't know how to establish accurate public awareness. At first I
thought it was men's stoic nature (since most NCP's are men) to endure
and not complain. I expected that to change as men eventually would
become more organized and vocal and as more second-wives became aware.
But even when there are some demonstrations or newspaper reports of an
abusive situation the public dismisses it as a one-off. I have taught
myself how to defend and even take the offensive in the no-man's-land
of self-representation as a NCP with only moderate cost to my
sanity ;-), basically forcing my ex and the courts to adhere to the
existing draconian laws. But even that small victory is more than many
NCP's can claim. I know how to deal with this individually but I've
become extremely pessimistic about this ever changing at a societal
level.

Don in MA

On Apr 3, 10:13*am, don_1228 wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:34 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. *And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no judge
would allow that to happen. *Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. *And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.

yeah...I think this is what bothers me the most. I've been in some
form of NCP group for 14 years now; my extortion...oops...I mean my
parental obligation (insane systems become parabolic when confronted
with reality)...will end (in theory) in 2.3 years when my son is 22
and 1/2.

The general public (those not gaining or losing from the CS insanity)
has deep pre-conceived notions based on belief in some 5th grade
civics class about the freedom and rights guaranteed to all citizens.
Even when you prove to them just what is happening to you then the
most you get is just kind of a dazed look and a shrug. Which I guess I
can't blame them for since it's not their life being shredded. But I
don't know how to establish accurate public awareness. At first I
thought it was men's stoic nature (since most NCP's are men) to endure
and not complain. I expected that to change as men eventually would
become more organized and vocal and as more second-wives became aware.
But even when there are some demonstrations or newspaper reports of an
abusive situation the public dismisses it as a one-off. I have taught
myself how to defend and even take the offensive in the no-man's-land
of self-representation as a NCP with only moderate cost to my
sanity ;-), basically forcing my ex and the courts to adhere to the
existing draconian laws. But even that small victory is more than many
NCP's can claim. I know how to deal with this individually but I've
become extremely pessimistic about this ever changing at a societal
level.

Don in MA

Well, I tell you, I will talk to anyone who will listen. My sister,
mother
and father all thought I was just making things up...They thought I
was evil
and not being fair...it's not until now that they are starting to see
the reality...
I think part of the problem is that many think we are making it up...
I came up with a good analysis a while back and hopefully will start
getting the word out to as many people as I possibly can in the
next few months. We're in the process of moving and once I have
more time in my hands, I plan to pursuing getting the word out.

One of the major issues is that people just think we are making
it up. I know with my mother, she thought I was making it all up
UNTIL I showed her the actual laws filed in Texas...Her jaw almost
dropped when she saw the laws...So, I think that we need to
"disengage" in a way, not really tell our story and focus on letting
people know what the laws are, SHOW them what they are...
only then, will people understand and believe us.

I had made a blog with "new laws that Texas wants to pass
for parents"...Basically, what I did was take EVERY SINGLE
Family Law and applied them to "ALL PARENTS", not just
divorced...I showed it to my sister and my dad a while back
and they both told me, there's NO WAY the state would do that...
that is ridiculous...you're making this up...then I showed them
the actual LAWS for Texas and told them, that they were right,
that Texas was NOT making new laws for all parents, that they
ALREADY had all those laws for divorced parents...They almost
passed out when I showed them...I really think we need to
approach it in a very different way otherwise, the crazy CPs out
there will cry and people will continue to believe them.

--
[Any man that's good enough to support a child is good enough to have
custody of such child]

..
..
"whatamess" wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 11:35 am, "jwhit" u42483@uwe wrote:
Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for
DCSE
in Virginia. I know her name but do not kow their format!



scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is all crazy...Actually, my mother who has always been the "poor
woman,
men are scum and should have to pay" has harassed me quite a bit about
the whole CS mess and me complaining. Her view was that you paid a
percentage
of your income, but that it was a reasonable percentage...that if you
changed jobs,
like in our case, due to move, etc...that they automatically reduced
the CS...that
the only thing counted in CS was normal wages, and you could deduct
your 401K
money, your retirement savings, the costs for YOUR stuff, house, blah,
blah...


Well, she's basically told me that I am making up this
nightmare...that
it can't POSSIBLY be this way...Until just now that I showed her ALL
THE LAWS
of the state of Texas...those that say it could even include CS that
YOU receive
on behalf of another child, rental property income, etc...she about
lost it!
HAHA! She feels we should go for custody, because surely we would get
it
since BM is a bad influence on SD...and that because we pay her, that
we'd be saving money anyway even if idiot BM didn't pay...YEAH RIGHT!
I pretty much told her that I would NOT do it...BM WILL PAY US or I
will
NOT do it...not because we need the money, but because of this
nightmare,
she has taken money that belongs to MY son, not her and has taken us
from perfect credit, savings, etc...to almost financial ruin and she
would NOT
be paying for SD, but paying ME back for all she stole...Of course, my
mother
STILL doesn't think that's fair to idiot BM...I think next time she
suggests
we take custody and we don't charge BM cs, I'll suggest SHE pay for
the
lawyer and that SHE pay CS to us, since she doesn't think BM should
pay it.

Again, I don't think it should be required, but at this point, sorry,
I will not
allow someone who has done such harm to my family financially to get
a free ride...


Anyway, sorry for the one who still has 12 years...we have 6 more
years,
if SD decides not to fail again in the next 6 years...and already will
be paying until she's
3 mos short of her 20tht birthday! How lovely...

******************************8

Flunking is indeed a lucrative maneuver by these mothers.

--
[Any man that's good enough to support a child is good enough to have
custody of such child]

..
..
"whatamess" wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 6:34 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"whatamess" wrote in message

...
On Apr 2, 11:35 am, "jwhit" u42483@uwe wrote:





Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for
DCSE
in Virginia. I know her name but do not kow their format!

scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is all crazy...Actually, my mother who has always been the "poor
woman,
men are scum and should have to pay" has harassed me quite a bit about
the whole CS mess and me complaining. Her view was that you paid a
percentage
of your income, but that it was a reasonable percentage...that if you
changed jobs,
like in our case, due to move, etc...that they automatically reduced
the CS...that
the only thing counted in CS was normal wages, and you could deduct
your 401K
money, your retirement savings, the costs for YOUR stuff, house, blah,
blah...

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no
experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no judge
would allow that to happen. Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You know, I'll tell you...my poor uncle, my MOTHER's brother, had a CS
case years ago...I'm 39 and my cousin is my age...her parents divorced
when we were around 5 years of age...AT THAT TIME, idiot ex-wife
married
a LAWYER...my uncle worked for IBM...he was told to pay 600USD a month
in child support for 2 children!!! Can you imagine what 600USD a
month
were 30 years ago? Needless to say, he did for a while, but when he
lost his
job, he couldn't...he tried as much as he could until he gave up and
started
taking odd jobs and moving every year or so to avoid jail...Meanwhile,
EVEN
WHEN HE PAID...his idiot ex-wife would not allow him to see the
kids...
I remember many days he would tell us he was going to pick them up and
would then return to my grandmother's house without them...idiot mom
would make up a story how they went out, blah, blah...ALL THESE YEARS
my mother has defended that witch! All these years...by the way, her
lawyer husband passed away a couple of years ago and she actually
had the nerve to tell my mother to tell my uncle that she was again
SINGLE
and NOW HAD LOTS OF MONEY...to call her anytime...Can you imagine???

**********************

Love of money is the root of ALL evil.

*********************

Anyway, I have a theory that sometimes when we are unjust to people,
we
either pay for it (Karma) or we pay for it through seeing our kids
struggle
with whatever we were unjust about...IE. she's now seeing how unfair
it is to me and my son...

--
[Any man that's good enough to support a child is good enough to have
custody of such child]

..
..
"don_1228" wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 6:34 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no
experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns.
And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no
judge
would allow that to happen. Or if you mention child custody outcomes
are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.

yeah...I think this is what bothers me the most. I've been in some
form of NCP group for 14 years now; my extortion...oops...I mean my
parental obligation (insane systems become parabolic when confronted
with reality)...will end (in theory) in 2.3 years when my son is 22
and 1/2.

The general public (those not gaining or losing from the CS insanity)
has deep pre-conceived notions based on belief in some 5th grade
civics class about the freedom and rights guaranteed to all citizens.
Even when you prove to them just what is happening to you then the
most you get is just kind of a dazed look and a shrug.

That's ok. When one of these folks talk about their cancer, just shrug back
and say "oh well". Sometimes, tasting one's OWN medicine can be quite
therapeutic.

Which I guess I
can't blame them for since it's not their life being shredded. But I
don't know how to establish accurate public awareness. At first I
thought it was men's stoic nature (since most NCP's are men) to endure
and not complain. I expected that to change as men eventually would
become more organized and vocal and as more second-wives became aware.
But even when there are some demonstrations or newspaper reports of an
abusive situation the public dismisses it as a one-off. I have taught
myself how to defend and even take the offensive in the no-man's-land
of self-representation as a NCP with only moderate cost to my
sanity ;-), basically forcing my ex and the courts to adhere to the
existing draconian laws. But even that small victory is more than many
NCP's can claim. I know how to deal with this individually but I've
become extremely pessimistic about this ever changing at a societal
level.

Don in MA

--
[Any man that's good enough to support a child is good enough to have
custody of such child]

..
..
"whatamess" wrote in message
...
On Apr 3, 10:13 am, don_1228 wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:34 pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no
experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no
judge
would allow that to happen. Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.

yeah...I think this is what bothers me the most. I've been in some
form of NCP group for 14 years now; my extortion...oops...I mean my
parental obligation (insane systems become parabolic when confronted
with reality)...will end (in theory) in 2.3 years when my son is 22
and 1/2.

The general public (those not gaining or losing from the CS insanity)
has deep pre-conceived notions based on belief in some 5th grade
civics class about the freedom and rights guaranteed to all citizens.
Even when you prove to them just what is happening to you then the
most you get is just kind of a dazed look and a shrug. Which I guess I
can't blame them for since it's not their life being shredded. But I
don't know how to establish accurate public awareness. At first I
thought it was men's stoic nature (since most NCP's are men) to endure
and not complain. I expected that to change as men eventually would
become more organized and vocal and as more second-wives became aware.
But even when there are some demonstrations or newspaper reports of an
abusive situation the public dismisses it as a one-off. I have taught
myself how to defend and even take the offensive in the no-man's-land
of self-representation as a NCP with only moderate cost to my
sanity ;-), basically forcing my ex and the courts to adhere to the
existing draconian laws. But even that small victory is more than many
NCP's can claim. I know how to deal with this individually but I've
become extremely pessimistic about this ever changing at a societal
level.

Don in MA

Well, I tell you, I will talk to anyone who will listen. My sister,
mother
and father all thought I was just making things up...They thought I
was evil
and not being fair...it's not until now that they are starting to see
the reality...
I think part of the problem is that many think we are making it up...
I came up with a good analysis a while back and hopefully will start
getting the word out to as many people as I possibly can in the
next few months. We're in the process of moving and once I have
more time in my hands, I plan to pursuing getting the word out.

************************

The only GOOD thing about this is the more people who get burned by such
system, the more opposition to it as well as people who become wise to their
evil agenda. Since the goal of the "child support" people is to rip off as
many men as possible, rest-assured they will continue to increase their pool
of victims. Eventually, it will arive at a pont of equilibrium where the
forces opposed to it will be on an even par. But make no mistake about it;
the number of victims will by FAR have to exceed the number of crooks in the
system only because the thugs have BIGGER guns!

***********************

One of the major issues is that people just think we are making
it up. I know with my mother, she thought I was making it all up
UNTIL I showed her the actual laws filed in Texas...Her jaw almost
dropped when she saw the laws...So, I think that we need to
"disengage" in a way, not really tell our story and focus on letting
people know what the laws are, SHOW them what they are...
only then, will people understand and believe us.

I had made a blog with "new laws that Texas wants to pass
for parents"...Basically, what I did was take EVERY SINGLE
Family Law and applied them to "ALL PARENTS", not just
divorced...I showed it to my sister and my dad a while back
and they both told me, there's NO WAY the state would do that...
that is ridiculous...you're making this up...then I showed them
the actual LAWS for Texas and told them, that they were right,
that Texas was NOT making new laws for all parents, that they
ALREADY had all those laws for divorced parents...They almost
passed out when I showed them...I really think we need to
approach it in a very different way otherwise, the crazy CPs out
there will cry and people will continue to believe them.

*********************

Such laws are the consequence of a society with TWO classes of citizens.