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#61
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"Child Support" money?
"Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , Fighting For Kids says... On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:45:28 -0500, "Tiffany" wrote: ===== The dollar spent on the child will come with a receipt. So I can't buy anything for my children at a street fair, or some other place where they don't issue receipts? Can't buy ice cream from the ice cream truck because they don't issue receipts? ===== ===== You think those things are necessities that your x should be paying for? T It could be.. if the street fair is selling school supplies cheaper than walmart and you buy them there isnt that still spending money on the child's basic needs? I can think of all kinds of necessity items one could by at a street fair vs a store. All brand new items often less expensive than at the stores themselves. ===== Logic dictates that incidental spending be attributable to the CP's percent share. The NCP is not responsible for the entire financial output for the child(ren). Y'all didn't forget about that part, did you? Considering that the CS I receive is less than half the actual expenses for the children, nope, I sure didn't forget that part. ===== ===== |
#62
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"Child Support" money?
"The DaveŠ" wrote in message ... Cameron Stevens wrote: I agree with the principle and I know this will be a challenge for those people who are especially challenged to budget or manage their money. Life is full of requirements that we're not all proficient at. We get through it, anyway. You might. I might... There is a huge number of people who likely can't cope with this requirement. I can see a base amount, Anything over and above the base amount must be justified. So for example the average CP would get $250/month (just a number not based on reality) then if she required more than that she would need to establish the reasons through Application and justification. This process would be through the CS agency and would not involve courts. The father would then be ASKED to pay more, he must establish his income through full disclosure and his income is factored into the overall income between the two parents. Consideration: If the NCP's income is verifiably lower and her income is low or non-existant, the state's welfare would top-up (money from thin air). Just ideas. |
#63
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"Child Support" money?
"Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , The DaveŠ says... Gini52 wrote: Supporting the mother is supporting the child. I know what you mean but there's no sane or reasonable way to enforce this. ===== Of course there is. Our government requires us to maintain receipts for all tax deductions for, what--7 years? We call it insane and unreasonable but the government has no problem requiring us to do it. There is no reason a CP should not be subject to audit if there is reason to believe CS is being misused. All she needs to do is keep a shoebox for receipts should there be a question. This would not apply however, if the amount ordered is in line with the actual reasonable costs of a child. In that case, there is little room for "discretionary spending." == == Trying to be reasonable here, but if we did do this (and I think we should), I would not expect 100% of CS to be literally directly applied to the child. Something along the lines of 75% to 80% would be fine with me. Factor in (real) costs in housing, etc., also. ==== I agree. Only the "lifestyle" support (the amount of money ordered that exceeds the ordinary costs of a child) should be accounted for. Who gets to determine the "ordinary costs" of a child? What happens in the case of low income parents, who can't meet that standard? This is not difficult. In fact, it is quite simple. It is only "unreasonable and outrageous" for those who prefer not to disclose how they spend the money. If the state is going to mandate a lifestyle, it is only logical that the state mandate the lifestyle be maintained. ==== ==== |
#64
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"Child Support" money?
"Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , Moon Shyne says... "Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , Moon Shyne says... "Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message ... "Jon" wrote in message news:Gvxsb.181492$HS4.1507961@attbi_s01... So if you receive support you can never buy a lottery ticket or take a drink? Child support should not be used for anything other than for supporting the child. So I use the child support to support the children, and buy my lottery ticket with my own money. Now........... how can you tell which dollar was which? They all look the same. ===== The dollar spent on the child will come with a receipt. So I can't buy anything for my children at a street fair, or some other place where they don't issue receipts? Can't buy ice cream from the ice cream truck because they don't issue receipts? ==== Yep. It comes from your percent share. (My proposal is, however, that only the amount over reasonable actual expenses should be subject to accounting.) Who gets to decide what "reasonable expenses" are? ==== ==== |
#65
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"Child Support" money?
"The DaveŠ" wrote in message ... Moon Shyne wrote: The dollar spent on the child will come with a receipt. So I can't buy anything for my children at a street fair, or some other place where they don't issue receipts? Can't buy ice cream from the ice cream truck because they don't issue receipts? Apparently not. If you are so selfish with your own money that you can't spring for an ice cream, this will be a problem, won't it? Considering that the CS I currently receive is less than half the actual expenses for the children, you would be way off base in your remark. |
#66
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"Child Support" money?
"Chris" wrote in message news:sZDsb.251$6G3.28@fed1read06... "Moon Shyne" wrote in message ... "Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message ... "Jon" wrote in message news:Gvxsb.181492$HS4.1507961@attbi_s01... So if you receive support you can never buy a lottery ticket or take a drink? Child support should not be used for anything other than for supporting the child. So I use the child support to support the children, and buy my lottery ticket with my own money. Now........... how can you tell which dollar was which? They all look the same. If you can afford the lottery ticket, then why do you need "child support" money? I work 2 jobs, in order to be able to afford some of the extras - I would think that I'm permitted to spend even just a little of it on myself? The child support money is the children's father's contribution towards the cost of raising them, since he does nothing for or with them on his own. FYI. Child support "dollars" can be spent on anything the CP wants, as long as they have already had to beg, borrow or steal from others to make up the the deadbeat's share before he decided to pay. Real nice, labeling all fathers as deadbeats. With the number of comcast email accounts you are now using and the level of usenet abuse to this NG it is only a matter of time before your account is suspended for TOS violation. "Gini52" wrote in message ... In article jPtsb.10$6G3.8@fed1read06, Chris says... Family kourt forces a man to give "child support" cash to the woman. She uses such proceeds to purchase lottery tickets, alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, gifts for her lover, and bon bons. How is this "child support" money? === It's the "trickle down" effect--You know, "Reaganomics." In the case of middle income dads, the presumption is that if you give them (CPs) way more than they need, there is a greater chance that enough will "trickle down" to the kids to keep them from starving. Note: This does not include CS ordered to low income dads that does not meet the basic needs of the child or upper income dads who are not subject to CS guidelines. === === |
#67
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"Child Support" money?
"Chris" wrote in message news:ZdEsb.258$6G3.133@fed1read06... "Jon" wrote in message news:AjCsb.187030$e01.681443@attbi_s02... What I am saying is this: The actual physical child support dollars that come in the form of a check from the Family Support Registry do not have to be spent on the children if the custodial parent has already had to take the NCP's share out of their own income to pay direct and indirect child expenses for any given month. This is not rocket science. If they've already paid for such expenses out of their own pocket, then they don't need the "child support" money, do they? So they had to use an additional share of their own income to cover the children's expenses - now they've got no money left to also cover their own expenses, since they were covering the NCP's share - what would you suggest, they hold off being able to eat dinner till next month? "The DaveŠ" wrote in message ... Jon wrote: So if you receive support you can never buy a lottery ticket or take a drink? FYI. Child support "dollars" can be spent on anything the CP wants, as long as they have already had to beg, borrow or steal from others to make up the the deadbeat's share before he decided to pay. So, you admit that CS is really general income for the CP (read: mother), and should be taxed accordingly? |
#68
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"Child Support" money?
In article , Moon Shyne says...
"Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , Fighting For Kids says... On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:45:28 -0500, "Tiffany" wrote: ===== The dollar spent on the child will come with a receipt. So I can't buy anything for my children at a street fair, or some other place where they don't issue receipts? Can't buy ice cream from the ice cream truck because they don't issue receipts? ===== ===== You think those things are necessities that your x should be paying for? T It could be.. if the street fair is selling school supplies cheaper than walmart and you buy them there isnt that still spending money on the child's basic needs? I can think of all kinds of necessity items one could by at a street fair vs a store. All brand new items often less expensive than at the stores themselves. ===== Logic dictates that incidental spending be attributable to the CP's percent share. The NCP is not responsible for the entire financial output for the child(ren). Y'all didn't forget about that part, did you? Considering that the CS I receive is less than half the actual expenses for the children, nope, I sure didn't forget that part. ===== But, apparantly you didn't get the part where I stated that accountability should not be applied to lower income NCPs where the ordered support amount doesn't cover actual expenses. Only *lifestyle* support should be subject to accountability and *then* only the amount which exceeds the states' basic needs amount. My proposal doesn't apply to you at all so go for the ice cream and have a great time :-) ===== ===== |
#69
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"Child Support" money?
In article , Moon Shyne says...
"Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , The DaveŠ says... Gini52 wrote: Supporting the mother is supporting the child. I know what you mean but there's no sane or reasonable way to enforce this. ===== Of course there is. Our government requires us to maintain receipts for all tax deductions for, what--7 years? We call it insane and unreasonable but the government has no problem requiring us to do it. There is no reason a CP should not be subject to audit if there is reason to believe CS is being misused. All she needs to do is keep a shoebox for receipts should there be a question. This would not apply however, if the amount ordered is in line with the actual reasonable costs of a child. In that case, there is little room for "discretionary spending." == == Trying to be reasonable here, but if we did do this (and I think we should), I would not expect 100% of CS to be literally directly applied to the child. Something along the lines of 75% to 80% would be fine with me. Factor in (real) costs in housing, etc., also. ==== I agree. Only the "lifestyle" support (the amount of money ordered that exceeds the ordinary costs of a child) should be accounted for. Who gets to determine the "ordinary costs" of a child? What happens in the case of low income parents, who can't meet that standard? ===== I've already stated these things in the thread but will again: Accountability does not apply to orders that do not cover the basic needs which are determined starting with the base need the state establishes for foster kids. Because your support does not cover the basic needs, you will not be subject to accountability. ==== ==== |
#70
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"Child Support" money?
In article , Moon Shyne says...
"Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , Moon Shyne says... "Gini52" wrote in message ... In article , Moon Shyne says... "Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message ... "Jon" wrote in message news:Gvxsb.181492$HS4.1507961@attbi_s01... So if you receive support you can never buy a lottery ticket or take a drink? Child support should not be used for anything other than for supporting the child. So I use the child support to support the children, and buy my lottery ticket with my own money. Now........... how can you tell which dollar was which? They all look the same. ===== The dollar spent on the child will come with a receipt. So I can't buy anything for my children at a street fair, or some other place where they don't issue receipts? Can't buy ice cream from the ice cream truck because they don't issue receipts? ==== Yep. It comes from your percent share. (My proposal is, however, that only the amount over reasonable actual expenses should be subject to accounting.) Who gets to decide what "reasonable expenses" are? ===== Already posted. ===== ===== |
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