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Do you support educational vouchers in schools?



 
 
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  #12  
Old March 30th 05, 06:17 PM
Rumpty
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The ones who need the better schools need to be removed from
the public schools and taught sound subject matter by those
who understand this, and not warehoused with their "peers".

That's an issue that needs to be addressed to the local school board who has
control over the students.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enigma wrote:
"Bob Coleslaw" wrote in
:


Is it better for the government to give out vouchers so
parents can send their kids to private schools, or to use
that money to fix up the public schools?


vouchers are a really bad idea. i do NOT want my tax dollars
used to fund any type of private school, especially not any
flavor of parochial school.
i have no issues with private schools, my kid attends one,
but i want my taxes to fix the public schools for the kids who
can't go to private school for whatever reason.
vouchers may help the elite, but they'll hurt the kids who
need better schools the most.
lee


At this time, NO student who is capable of getting a good
degree in mathematics or science or engineering or
agriculture or economics is getting even a fair high school
education corresponding to his abilities.

The ones who need the better schools need to be removed from
the public schools and taught sound subject matter by those
who understand this, and not warehoused with their "peers".
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558



  #13  
Old March 30th 05, 06:18 PM
Richard Clements
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my question is who is this wank? and what is he smoking, and why is he doing
it on the wood form?

John Emmons wrote:

you might think that folks who knows so much about the state of education
would also know how to set their computers up so as to not cross post
their crap all over USENET...
"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Coleslaw wrote:
Is it better for the government to give out vouchers so parents can
send their kids to private schools, or to use that money to fix up the
public schools?


On this question, I have no problems. The public schools,
as they are run, are hopeless. The idea that children
should be with their age groups, instead of being taught
to the best of their abilities, whatever they may be, is
antithetic to real learning. Even the idea of a child
being in a "grade" needs to be scrapped.

Also, most of the teachers can no longer teach concepts.
One does not learn to understand concepts by memorization
and other rote material. The not too strong mathematics
courses of most of a century ago have been scrapped in
favor of teaching how to get answers where the questions
are not even known, instead of incorporating the conceptual
advances of the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries.
Attempts to teach the concepts to teachers have been
largely unsuccessful; they know too much that ain't so.

At this time, we do not have a good idea how to teach well,
so we will need to have lack of control. There are now
very few academic private schools. Most will continue to
use the public schools while we find out how to do even a
fair job of teaching, and I suspect we will end up with
mainly electronic schools, not computer programs.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558


  #14  
Old March 30th 05, 08:22 PM
Hillary Israeli
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In ,
Jill wrote:

(Hillary Israeli) wrote in
:
*
* As the parent of a private school kid (and ultimately, I expect,
* three private school kids) I completely agree. I don't want to
* take away my support of the public school system.
*
*
*Don't forget that vouchers will kill the private schools by forcing too
*many unqualified minority kids into their classrooms. Just like
*"bussing" in the '70s.

Huh? First of all, I don't believe bussing killed public schools or
private schools or anything at all (i'm not sure what you're trying to say
bussing did, actually). Second, vouchers will not kill private schools by
forcing anyone anywhere. Just because a voucher makes someone able to pay
the tuition, that does not make the holder of the voucher otherwise
eligible to attend the school. Most of the private schools I looked at
have other types of requirements as well - the kid has to have a certain
IQ and/or test score on some kind of screening test, and has to pass
interviews or observations, or whatever.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx



  #15  
Old March 30th 05, 08:28 PM
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http://groups-beta.google.com/groups...0y4Pue0pYgAOJQ

  #16  
Old March 30th 05, 09:54 PM
Stephanie
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wrote in message
ups.com...
hey...why are you posting on rec woodworking?....perhaps you might need
some higher education so you will know how to post correctly


Rec.woodworking? Hi Tim!


  #17  
Old March 30th 05, 10:11 PM
toto
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On 30 Mar 2005 11:21:57 -0500, (Herman
Rubin) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Coleslaw wrote:
Is it better for the government to give out vouchers so parents can
send their kids to private schools, or to use that money to fix up the
public schools?


On this question, I have no problems. The public schools,
as they are run, are hopeless. The idea that children
should be with their age groups, instead of being taught
to the best of their abilities, whatever they may be, is
antithetic to real learning. Even the idea of a child
being in a "grade" needs to be scrapped.

And what private schools exist where children are not also
grouped with their peers, Herman? There are a few, but not
very many. Skipping grades is not encouraged in most
private schools any more than it is in public schools and
aside from the higher grades (high school, mostly), there are
no more independent study classes in those academic
private schools than there are in the public schools my own
children attended.

Also, most of the teachers can no longer teach concepts.
One does not learn to understand concepts by memorization
and other rote material. The not too strong mathematics
courses of most of a century ago have been scrapped in
favor of teaching how to get answers where the questions
are not even known, instead of incorporating the conceptual
advances of the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries.
Attempts to teach the concepts to teachers have been
largely unsuccessful; they know too much that ain't so.

This is a generalization you continually make with *no* proof
that it is true other than your assertion that you have had some
few education majors in your classes whom *you* could not
teach concepts.

At this time, we do not have a good idea how to teach well,
so we will need to have lack of control. There are now
very few academic private schools. Most will continue to
use the public schools while we find out how to do even a
fair job of teaching, and I suspect we will end up with
mainly electronic schools, not computer programs.


We might, I suppose end up with at least some electronic
schools and distance learning. For many kids this will *not*
be a sufficient way of educating them, however. Humans
need contact with real live adults,and with their peers in
education as much as in other areas of their lives.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #18  
Old March 30th 05, 10:14 PM
toto
external usenet poster
 
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Default

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:29:48 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Coleslaw wrote:
Is it better for the government to give out vouchers so parents can
send their kids to private schools, or to use that money to fix up the
public schools?


On this question, I have no problems. The public schools,
as they are run, are hopeless.



That's for sure. They are huge money pits and the administration and
teachers just want to get bigger budgets. Put some discipline back in the
school, eliminate tenure and fire the bad teachers, and get on with
education at half the cost.

How about eliminating tenure for the college profs like Herman first.

People who complain about tenure in the public schools haven't the
first idea about why it was instituted and how it works. There is a
procedure to be followed when you want to fire a tenured teacher.
It's not all that hard if the administrators are not lazy. They need
to document the reasons for the firing, that's all that is needed.
While in many places teachers are NOT fired, this is not because
of the fact that they have tenure, but because incompetent
administrators don't want to go through the paperwork and document
any charges they make. It's easier for them to simply transfer the
teacher or to try to make his or her life miserable enough so that
they will quit instead.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #19  
Old March 31st 05, 12:03 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:13:52 +0000 (UTC), "Bob Coleslaw"
wrote:

Is it better for the government to give out vouchers so parents can
send their kids to private schools, or to use that money to fix up the
public schools?

Bob Coleslaw


The latter.
 




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