CS and women's greed strikes again..

"Krista" wrote in message
m...
Actually, twice counseling was suggested, once by me and once by him.
When
we'd been married about 6 months I started talking to an old boyfriend
(really old, like five years before, he was the father of my first child,
who was relinquished), we were both married, with kids (well, I had one on
the way).

We talked about our past, how my mom split us up, and what would have
happened if that hadn't been the case. All innocent stuff, but my ex took
it like I was cheating on him and ordered me not to speak to the guy
again.


Not an unreasonable thing to ask. If it was him talking to a ex-girlfriend
most women would have an issue with that.

First of all, I take orders from no one, and second, the guy and I shared
a
child, albeit one neither of us had seen in years. He sent me packing to
my
parents house telling me he'd "take me back" if I told my parents "the
truth." He thought they'd side with him, but they didn't.

They thought he was being insecure, that all my communications with my old
boyfriend were completely free of any innuendo, even after my ex showed
them
the emails and IM transcripts. I guess that was when I first knew we had
a
"problem." He suggested counseling, and I said I didn't think we could
afford it, but sure, if he thought we could. I never heard about it
again.


He again sounds totally reasonable. You were talking to your ex-boyfriend
no matter how innoncent it may have been it is understandable why a husband
would have a problem with it. He then offers counseling but you bring up
affordability.. This guy would have to be a total wuss to insist on it at
this point since the ball was in your court to push the issue with
counseling. Did you want him to beg? geez.

Fast forward 7 months... Our daughter was six months old and I was afraid
to leave him alone with her. I left for my parents' house, a trial
separation, I told him. He called me every day begging me to come back,
and
after a week, I finally did.

Things got better for a week and then they went back to the way they were
before I left, so at the end of the month I left again, more determined
this
time. I lasted two weeks before returning. The house was a pig sty. The
catbox hadn't been cleaned since I'd left, the kitchen and living room
were
full of dirty dishes, and the laundry room was full of dirty clothes,
including two women's shirts I found while sorting through the dirty
clothes. Shirts that did not belong to me and were not of a size to fit
my
mother or his.


This sounds typical of someone who has been hurt and in depression. The
girl leaves and everything goes to hell for awhile. You walked out after a
history of contact with an ex-boyfriend.

One time before when I'd been visiting my parents (a real visit, not a
trial
separation) he'd let a female friend of ours stay in our apartment, but
that
had been months before so I knew the clothes couldn't have been from that,
which is what he tried to tell me. I gave him an ultimatum the next day,
either the emotional abuse stopped or at the end of 30 days I was leaving,
for real, and for good, and there would be no sex during that time (he'd
already tried to "trap" me by not using a condom when he said he was).
There would be no coming back or counseling or anything.

I suggested we go to counseling, but, because I was in control of the
finances since he'd spent all our money. I knew there was no way we could
afford it unless he was willing to give up going out to lunch every day at
work ($10/day) and or give up his weekly PlayStation games ($50+/week).
He
wasn't, so we didn't go.

To give him credit, he lasted a full two weeks that time, but one
afternoon
when I came home from running some errands he asked me if I wanted to go
out
to dinner (at a place I'd been dying to try). I said yes and went to get
ready.

While I was fixing my hair he came up behind me and started kissing my
neck
and reached down to undo my pants. I told him no and he said "but I want
to" and I said no, and he said "either we do or we don't go." I was
appalled that he thought I would do that just to go out to dinner and I
again told him no. He said, "Fine, I want a divorce then." I told him
"Sure, how do you want to do this?" I left the next day.


Typical reaction from a scorned lover in this case a male. You sound like
one cold chick.

My parents lived about 3.5-4 hours from where he did and he didn't even
try
to see me or our daughter for 5 months. He emailed me every week or so,
trying to get me to come back, offering counseling, saying he knew we
couldn't afford it but his mom said she'd pay for it (yeah right, the
woman
hates me, always has, even when we were married).


He offers counseling again.

I had warned him that if I ever actually had had enough and left I would
never come back, I couldn't. And I didn't. After the September 11th
attacks he renewed his efforts although he'd been silent on that front for
a
while, but by then I was starting to work through things and I wasn't
about
to go back.

I later found out how sure of himself he was. A friend of mine who I
hadn't
called before I left, called asking for me. He told her I'd left but that
I'd "be back in just a week or two, you'll see."


This is typical of some people, how they react when lover walks out on them.

And then there's the $400 that mysteriously "disappeared" from our bank
account that last time I visited my parents before actually leaving him.
I'm sure he spent it on the woman to whom the shirts belonged, and I know
he
went shopping at our local sex toy shop with her, so I imagine that's
where
it went.

So now you have a bigger picture. Still not the whole thing, but a bigger
picture for sure. I didn't just "bail." I tried to work it out, and I
tried to seek counseling, but I couldn't do it alone (well, the counseling
I
could have, but that would have had the same effect, he wanted a Stepford
wife, I wasn't willing to be one).


From your own words in this post it is clear you did not make the effort
with conseling. It takes two willing individuals not one begging for it.


And still, $50,000 was MINE before we were even married, so I still say
that
*I* should have gotten pretty much the complete contents of our apartment,
since he spent it without my knowledge as soon as he got control over it.


If the roles were reversed with him as the woman that took the 50k it would
be the typical "you go girl". He walked out on you, "you go girl, take him
for everything".

--
Krista
Mother of three
Student of Psychology and Latin
"Don" don@free wrote in message
...
The point is, fed up with it, like many women that buy into the feminist
agenda, they bail out instead of trying to work it out or seek
counseling.
There was no physical abuse so there was nothing to stop her from
seeking
counseling or only temporarily remove herself and the children from the
home
until the family crisis could be mediated.

Even if the interpretation of abuse is not just physical there was still
nothing to stop her from seeking counseling. She still could have
temporarily removed herself and the child from the home until family
counseling appears to have been success.

The point all goes back to the earlier post that those who leave the
marriage should not expect to take the children or expect any of the
family
assets except when a good faith efforts are made without success under
some
pretty extreme circumstances (i.e. proven allegations of real abuse)

I do not want to minimize the pain she must have went through and guy
sounds
like a real jerk however there is
is no indication from what she posted that she made these efforts before
totally bailing out of the marriage.

And if the counselors recommend divorce?

Should she be able to choose to accept
only one full-time position... that being housewife and mother? If
so, should she expect that he will take care of ALL the financial
needs of the family?

The thread is moving way off topic since the point of her response goes
back
to women that leave with the children and the family assets. But to
answer
your question, it sounds like the guy was a real jerk, so of course not.
However perhaps parental responsibilities with some sort of trade off
between the two of them could have been worked out in counseling before
she
empowered herself to abandon the marriage.

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:23:37 -0400, "Don" don@free wrote:


"Krista" wrote in message
m...
"Don" don@free wrote in message
...


Sorry dear but what you describe is not even close to real abuse. I
am
not
saying your ex may not have been a royal pain in the ass, but the
problem
in
our society today is that a bit of a rough patch in a relationship is
used
as an excuse to bail out of marriage rather than work things out and
seek
counseling.

And if the counselors recommend divorce?






What also strikes me as odd is that you had to know his views on what
was
expected from you as a traditional house wife prior to marriage? Did
you
keep your feminist view of marriage from him until well after you
were
married?

Despite feminist propaganda being a house wife and mother is
something
to
be
very proud of and a honor.

I agree that being a housewife and mother is something to be
very proud of and a honor. It is a full-time job without spousal
help. But what happens when a man partially subscribes to what you
call "feminist propaganda" and wants it both ways? He agrees that
women should work and contribute to the household finances, but also
feels that the house and the children are her sole responsibility?
SHOULD he have it both ways? Should she be able to choose to accept
only one full-time position... that being housewife and mother? If
so, should she expect that he will take care of ALL the financial
needs of the family? And if he doesn't (especially her needs such as
medical, etc...)? I am not sayng it is abuse if he does not... just
wondering how you feel about an inequity.

You may want to decide what you will be and be
clear with any future partners what to expect from you as a wife in a
future
marriage. Otherwise you may find yourself repeating your past
history.

To me however your story sounds like another marriage down and a
child
without a full time father thanks to feminist brainwashing.

In article , "Kenneth S."
writes:

Anyone reading Krista's message below cannot help but be struck by the
vocabulary she uses. For example, she's a "survivor" of many "emotionally
abusive" relationships. This is the victim mindset that has been encouraged
by the modern-day feminist movement. It's been cynically used to gain
advantages for women over men -- destroying many families in the process,
and inflicting serious damage on children.

What in heck in "emotional abuse?"

snip

Yeah, and what in the hell is "financial abuse?" He wouldn't come through with
her weekly allowance? He made her pay for her share of the household expenses?
He took her to Arby's on their anniversary, instead of a nice restaurant?

I'd like Krista to define "financial abuse."

In article , "Kenneth S."
writes:

Anyone reading Krista's message below cannot help but be struck by the
vocabulary she uses. For example, she's a "survivor" of many "emotionally
abusive" relationships. This is the victim mindset that has been encouraged
by the modern-day feminist movement. It's been cynically used to gain
advantages for women over men -- destroying many families in the process,
and inflicting serious damage on children.

What in heck in "emotional abuse?"

snip

Yeah, and what in the hell is "financial abuse?" He wouldn't come through with
her weekly allowance? He made her pay for her share of the household expenses?
He took her to Arby's on their anniversary, instead of a nice restaurant?

I'd like Krista to define "financial abuse."

In article , "Kenneth S."
writes:

Anyone reading Krista's message below cannot help but be struck by the
vocabulary she uses. For example, she's a "survivor" of many "emotionally
abusive" relationships. This is the victim mindset that has been encouraged
by the modern-day feminist movement. It's been cynically used to gain
advantages for women over men -- destroying many families in the process,
and inflicting serious damage on children.

What in heck in "emotional abuse?"

snip

Yeah, and what in the hell is "financial abuse?" He wouldn't come through with
her weekly allowance? He made her pay for her share of the household expenses?
He took her to Arby's on their anniversary, instead of a nice restaurant?

I'd like Krista to define "financial abuse."

I am myself a victim of financial abuse, GudGye. My one true love, Anna
Nicole Smith (the Widow Marshall), got all that money when her octogenarian
husband died, and she won't share any of it with me.

Can't get any more financially abusive than that, can you?


"GudGye11" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kenneth S."
writes:

Anyone reading Krista's message below cannot help but be struck by
the
vocabulary she uses. For example, she's a "survivor" of many
"emotionally
abusive" relationships. This is the victim mindset that has been
encouraged
by the modern-day feminist movement. It's been cynically used to gain
advantages for women over men -- destroying many families in the process,
and inflicting serious damage on children.

What in heck in "emotional abuse?"

snip

Yeah, and what in the hell is "financial abuse?" He wouldn't come through
with
her weekly allowance? He made her pay for her share of the household
expenses?
He took her to Arby's on their anniversary, instead of a nice restaurant?

I'd like Krista to define "financial abuse."

I am myself a victim of financial abuse, GudGye. My one true love, Anna
Nicole Smith (the Widow Marshall), got all that money when her octogenarian
husband died, and she won't share any of it with me.

Can't get any more financially abusive than that, can you?


"GudGye11" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kenneth S."
writes:

Anyone reading Krista's message below cannot help but be struck by
the
vocabulary she uses. For example, she's a "survivor" of many
"emotionally
abusive" relationships. This is the victim mindset that has been
encouraged
by the modern-day feminist movement. It's been cynically used to gain
advantages for women over men -- destroying many families in the process,
and inflicting serious damage on children.

What in heck in "emotional abuse?"

snip

Yeah, and what in the hell is "financial abuse?" He wouldn't come through
with
her weekly allowance? He made her pay for her share of the household
expenses?
He took her to Arby's on their anniversary, instead of a nice restaurant?

I'd like Krista to define "financial abuse."

I am myself a victim of financial abuse, GudGye. My one true love, Anna
Nicole Smith (the Widow Marshall), got all that money when her octogenarian
husband died, and she won't share any of it with me.

Can't get any more financially abusive than that, can you?


"GudGye11" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kenneth S."
writes:

Anyone reading Krista's message below cannot help but be struck by
the
vocabulary she uses. For example, she's a "survivor" of many
"emotionally
abusive" relationships. This is the victim mindset that has been
encouraged
by the modern-day feminist movement. It's been cynically used to gain
advantages for women over men -- destroying many families in the process,
and inflicting serious damage on children.

What in heck in "emotional abuse?"

snip

Yeah, and what in the hell is "financial abuse?" He wouldn't come through
with
her weekly allowance? He made her pay for her share of the household
expenses?
He took her to Arby's on their anniversary, instead of a nice restaurant?

I'd like Krista to define "financial abuse."

In article , Kenneth S. says...

I am myself a victim of financial abuse, GudGye. My one true love, Anna
Nicole Smith (the Widow Marshall), got all that money when her octogenarian
husband died, and she won't share any of it with me.

Can't get any more financially abusive than that, can you?
===
Word on the street is that your lovely Anna Nicole can't get a date these days
despite all that weight loss. I'm thinking this might be your window of
opportunity. You might even be able to pull off a real sweet pre-nup deal--Like
if she does you wrong after she gets her pride and confidence back, you get a
kazillion bucks and custody of all the family pets, including that five-legged
sheep you've become so attached to. I don't think you can go wrong.
===
===

In article , Kenneth S. says...

I am myself a victim of financial abuse, GudGye. My one true love, Anna
Nicole Smith (the Widow Marshall), got all that money when her octogenarian
husband died, and she won't share any of it with me.

Can't get any more financially abusive than that, can you?
===
Word on the street is that your lovely Anna Nicole can't get a date these days
despite all that weight loss. I'm thinking this might be your window of
opportunity. You might even be able to pull off a real sweet pre-nup deal--Like
if she does you wrong after she gets her pride and confidence back, you get a
kazillion bucks and custody of all the family pets, including that five-legged
sheep you've become so attached to. I don't think you can go wrong.
===
===

In article , Kenneth S. says...

I am myself a victim of financial abuse, GudGye. My one true love, Anna
Nicole Smith (the Widow Marshall), got all that money when her octogenarian
husband died, and she won't share any of it with me.

Can't get any more financially abusive than that, can you?
===
Word on the street is that your lovely Anna Nicole can't get a date these days
despite all that weight loss. I'm thinking this might be your window of
opportunity. You might even be able to pull off a real sweet pre-nup deal--Like
if she does you wrong after she gets her pride and confidence back, you get a
kazillion bucks and custody of all the family pets, including that five-legged
sheep you've become so attached to. I don't think you can go wrong.
===
===