Question about cows milk (long)

Thanks for your reply. It was very straightforward LOL!! I do trust the
people on this NG (about BF), more than my family doctor (he never had any
specific training in Lactation etc), so I will continue to BF, try to get DD
to eat a varied diet, and slowly introduce cow's milk (for taste only now)
as Beth recommended.

Thanks again,

Michelle P
"Larry McMahan" wrote in message
...
Michelle Podnar writes:
: Hello all,

: He said that she needs the extra fat and protein found in cow's milk.

This is bull****. The kind of fats found if breastmilk is far superior
to the fats found in cow's milk. And humans do not have as high a
protein need as cows.

: He assumed that I was going to wean to milk, but then said if I
: wanted to continue to BF, that was also good, but it wouldn't be for
: nutrition anymore, mainly comfort.

This is bull****, too. Extended breastfeeding in the second year has
shown to be beneficial for several reasons...
Children who were bf between the first and second year has higher
average
IQs than those weaned by 12 mos.
The concentration of immune substances in second year milk is higher
than
in first year milk, thus continuing to provide illness protection.

: supportive of BF, but he fell somewhat short. He has a little girl 2
weeks
: younger that DD, and she was BF (a lot was pumped though) for the first
: year, but was introduced to solids a 4 months, and probably has a much
more
: varied diet than DD.

Pity for her. He should read the research litgerature rather than relying
on "common knowledge" in the medical community.

: Is it true that DD now needs cow's milk for fat & protein?

Absolutely not! Breastmilk is superior.

: What should I do?

Find a more knowledgable ped.

: Michelle P

Larry

Thanks for your reply. DD does eat cheeses, and yogurt, so she is already
getting some.

Michelle P
"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Michelle Podnar" wrote:

He said that I
should aim for 24 oz/day, but I know that that will be very difficult to
get
anywhere near that.

I agree with what the other posters have said about your ped, but just
wanted
to add that this amount need not necessarily all be milk, but could be
other
dairy products. A slice of cheese, for example, equates to a particular
value
in oz of milk.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"...children should continue to be breastfed... for up to two years of age
or beyond." -- Innocenti Declaration, Florence, 1 August 1990

Thanks for the reply.

This is one area that I agree my doctor doesn't have enough knowledge on. I
am sure he didn't receive much specialized training on lactation when he
became a GP. Outside of this topic, I really do like him, and respect his
opinions.

Michelle P
"Marvin L. Zinn" wrote in message
...
Michelle,

I'd say your doctor is ignorant, untrained, or
dumb. If he's been in the profession more than 10
years, he needs to go back to school.

marvinlzinn

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to:
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

What should I do?

Get a new pediatriican?


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

This is one area that I agree my doctor doesn't have enough knowledge on. I
am sure he didn't receive much specialized training on lactation when he
became a GP. Outside of this topic, I really do like him, and respect his
opinions.

If you really do like him and respect him, you might want to let him know that
you are fully aware that he has had little or no training in lactation and
breastfeeding, and you will, therefore, not be taking his advice on
weaning/nutrition for your bf toddler. You might even point him to some good
information sources on lactation so he will be able to give better advice to
other patients. (Think of all the patients who are weaning at one year because
he tells them that bfing is 'just for comfort' by then and so no longer really
important.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Very good point. I will do so.

Michelle P
"Naomi Pardue" wrote in message
...
This is one area that I agree my doctor doesn't have enough knowledge n
t++++++

on. I
am sure he didn't receive much specialized training on lactation when he
became a GP. Outside of this topic, I really do like him, and respect
his
opinions.

If you really do like him and respect him, you might want to let him know
that
you are fully aware that he has had little or no training in lactation and
breastfeeding, and you will, therefore, not be taking his advice on
weaning/nutrition for your bf toddler. You might even point him to some
good
information sources on lactation so he will be able to give better advice
to
other patients. (Think of all the patients who are weaning at one year
because
he tells them that bfing is 'just for comfort' by then and so no longer
really
important.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to
e-mail
reply.)

H Schinske wrote in message
...
Michelle ) wrote:

DD was a year on
Monday,and we were at the dr yesterday (20 lbs 13 oz, 30" length), and he
was saying that we need to get her on milk. Homo milk is preferred, but
2%
will do. He said that she needs the extra fat and protein found in cow's
milk.

He's certainly completely wrong about the fat. Breastmilk is HIGHER in fat
(and
of a much better kind for your child!) than whole cow's milk. Here's the
complete USDA info on human milk:

From what I understand, and I can't give sources, the fat content of
breastmilk drops off quite a bit after the first year, and cow's milk
(whole) DOES then have a higher fat content. I realize what you quoted says
"mature' human milk, but milk can be mature at a couple of months.

laurie
mommy to Jessica, 27 months
and Christopher, 13 weeks

*This email address is now valid*

Milk, human, mature, fluid
Nutrient Units 1 cup
-------
246.000 g
Proximates
Water g 215.250
Energy kcal 171.125
Energy kj 715.860
Protein g 2.534
Total lipid (fat) g 10.775
Carbohydrate, by difference g 16.949
Fiber, total dietary g 0.000
Ash g 0.492
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 79.212
Iron, Fe mg 0.074
Magnesium, Mg mg 8.364
Phosphorus, P mg 33.702
Potassium, K mg 125.952
Sodium, Na mg 41.574
Zinc, Zn mg 0.418
Copper, Cu mg 0.128
Manganese, Mn mg 0.064
Selenium, Se mcg 4.428
Vitamins
Vitamin C, ascorbic acid mg 12.300
Thiamin mg 0.034
Riboflavin mg 0.089
Niacin mg 0.435
Pantothenic acid mg 0.549
Vitamin B-6 mg 0.027
Folate mcg 12.792
Vitamin B-12 mcg 0.111
Vitamin A, IU IU 592.860
Vitamin A, RE mcg_RE 157.440
Vitamin D IU 9.840
Vitamin E mg_ATE 2.214
Lipids
Fatty acids, saturated g 4.942
4:0 g 0.000
6:0 g 0.000
8:0 g 0.000
10:0 g 0.155
12:0 g 0.630
14:0 g 0.790
16:0 g 2.261
18:0 g 0.721
Fatty acids, monounsaturated g 4.079
16:1 g 0.317
18:1 g 3.629
20:1 g 0.098
22:1 g 0.000
Fatty acids, polyunsaturated g 1.223
18:2 g 0.920
18:3 g 0.128
18:4 g 0.000
20:4 g 0.064
20:5 g 0.000
22:5 g 0.000
22:6 g 0.000
Cholesterol mg 34.194
Amino acids
Tryptophan g 0.042
Threonine g 0.113
Isoleucine g 0.138
Leucine g 0.234
Lysine g 0.167
Methionine g 0.052
Cystine g 0.047
Phenylalanine g 0.113
Tyrosine g 0.130
Valine g 0.155
Arginine g 0.106
Histidine g 0.057
Alanine g 0.089
Aspartic acid g 0.202
Glutamic acid g 0.413
Glycine g 0.064
Proline g 0.202
Serine g 0.106

USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 13 (November 1999)

And for cow's milk:

Milk, fluid, 3.25% milkfat
Nutrient Units 1 cup
-------
244.000 g
Proximates
Water g 214.696
Energy kcal 149.916
Energy kj 627.080
Protein g 8.028
Total lipid (fat) g 8.150
Carbohydrate, by difference g 11.370
Fiber, total dietary g 0.000
Ash g 1.757
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 291.336
Iron, Fe mg 0.122
Magnesium, Mg mg 32.794
Phosphorus, P mg 227.896
Potassium, K mg 369.660
Sodium, Na mg 119.560
Zinc, Zn mg 0.927
Copper, Cu mg 0.024
Manganese, Mn mg 0.010
Selenium, Se mcg 4.880
Vitamins
Vitamin C, ascorbic acid mg 2.294
Thiamin mg 0.093
Riboflavin mg 0.395
Niacin mg 0.205
Pantothenic acid mg 0.766
Vitamin B-6 mg 0.102
Folate mcg 12.200
Vitamin B-12 mcg 0.871
Vitamin A, IU IU 307.440
Vitamin A, RE mcg_RE 75.640
Vitamin D IU 97.600
Vitamin E mg_ATE 0.244
Lipids
Fatty acids, saturated g 5.073
4:0 g 0.264
6:0 g 0.156
8:0 g 0.090
10:0 g 0.205
12:0 g 0.229
14:0 g 0.820
16:0 g 2.145
18:0 g 0.988
Fatty acids, monounsaturated g 2.355
16:1 g 0.183
18:1 g 2.050
20:1 g 0.000
22:1 g 0.000
Fatty acids, polyunsaturated g 0.303
18:2 g 0.183
18:3 g 0.120
18:4 g 0.000
20:4 g 0.000
20:5 g 0.000
22:5 g 0.000
22:6 g 0.000
Cholesterol mg 33.184
Phytosterols mg 0.000
Amino acids
Tryptophan g 0.112
Threonine g 0.364
Isoleucine g 0.486
Leucine g 0.786
Lysine g 0.637
Methionine g 0.203
Cystine g 0.073
Phenylalanine g 0.388
Tyrosine g 0.388
Valine g 0.537
Arginine g 0.290
Histidine g 0.217
Alanine g 0.276
Aspartic acid g 0.610
Glutamic acid g 1.681
Glycine g 0.171
Proline g 0.778
Serine g 0.437

USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 13 (November 1999)

In article ,
(H Schinske) wrote:

I just realized that at least one thing is odd in those numbers I posted
-- the
cow's milk shows up as *higher* in iron than the breastmilk (0.122 mg per cup
for cow's, 0.074 mg for people's). Weird. I have always heard that cow's milk
has essentially no iron, and that breastmilk has more but not a whole pile of
iron.

I need to look into this, but haven't time right now.

--Helen

The iron in cows milk is not absorbed very well by humans, whereas the
iron in human milk is (obviously, since it's *made* for humans) all
absorbed.
I'm sure you can look it up somewhere on the net, I haven't the time!

L

Laurie ) wrote:

From what I understand, and I can't give sources, the fat content of
breastmilk drops off quite a bit after the first year, and cow's milk
(whole) DOES then have a higher fat content.

Interesting. I had forgotten this if I knew it, but Dr. Sears says it starts in
the second half of the first year. I just found another page that says the
baby's metabolism digests fats better after four or five months, and if you put
those two things together, it suggests to me that the baby might actually be
*metabolizing* about the same amount of fat per ounce of breastmilk over the
course of growing up. The extra fat early on would be there for the same reason
that formula has way more iron -- because less is absorbed. But that connection
is my personal theory, not what Dr. Sears says.

--Helen