Year round schools

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:45:28 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

I think there are a lot of good things about
year round schooling, but I think if it became the
norm, there would be some lost opportunities. At the
very least, there would be a really awkward transition
period.

If it became the norm, the *opportunities* would adjust and
change to serve the population. While the transition might
be awkward, I think it would be pretty short if the entire
country began to do year round schooling.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"toto" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:45:28 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

I think there are a lot of good things about
year round schooling, but I think if it became the
norm, there would be some lost opportunities. At the
very least, there would be a really awkward transition
period.

If it became the norm, the *opportunities* would adjust and
change to serve the population. While the transition might
be awkward, I think it would be pretty short if the entire
country began to do year round schooling.

How can a program like Interlochen do it's summer program in little chunks
all year? Or the Carnegie Mellon APEA program, which is dependent on the
college facilities being available? You can't do the sort of group music
teaching, at the level these programs offer, in only 2 weeks. (CMU is
equivalent to a semester of college coursework, in several areas at once).
Interlochen has a full-year boarding program. You can't do a full summer
stock theatre production, and the training allowed in summer stock, in two
weeks either.

Or, on teacher training-How do you do a program like Tennessee Arts Academy
if only 1/4 of the teachers are off at any time? Do it 4x, with a 4x
expansion in costs? Tell the teachers they can only do it once every 4
years, assuming they don't switch tracks? Now figure that throughout the
state there will almost certainly be a track starting or ending on EVERY
Monday that isn't a federal holiday-you'd never work out scheduling.

It's all well and good to say "They'd adjust", but I expect such programs
would end up just plain not existing. And the costs would be to the
children's education. For children (and, for that matter, teachers) actively
involved in the fine and performing arts, such programs fill a role that the
regular school cannot fill. Even the best magnet schools are nowhere near
the quality or intensity of Carnegie-Mellon, Berklee, Interlochen, or Blue
Lake.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Nevermind wrote:
Clisby wrote in message ...

toto wrote:


Frequent breaks that enable teachers to relax, travel, study,
and pursue other recreational activities which may reduce
stress factors.



I'd be interested to hear what teachers on the group think about this.
I would have thought a 2.5-month summer vacation would be better for
travel, study, etc. (Are there many certification-related courses you
can take in a 3-week period?)


My DH is a teacher, he works during the summer, as do all of his male
teacher friends, that I know of. His summer work is currently an
important part of our yearly income. So, this might be a problem for
some people: the vacations would have to be vacations and could not be
used to make money. However, it has already been problematic for us
that he only ever has available vacation time in the summer; I do
think it would be nice if he had time available at various times of
the year. It's a lot cheaper to do certain vacations "off-season."


Looking at it solely from my 7-year-old's standpoint - I think she'd
thrive on the 45/15 plan. She loves her school, and while she likes
summer vacation, too, she's really getting bored by the first of August.
The weather/mosquitoes are so miserable here by early August that I
can't bear to do any outside activities -


That brings up the other issue that springs immediately to my mind:
very few public schools around here are air-conditioned, despite hot
summers. I think they'd need to be air-conditioned to have any real
learning go on in the summer. (If you can't even go to the park in
some of your summer weather, can you imagine teaching or learning
calculus during it?)

Not in a school that didn't have air conditioning - and I wouldn't send
my child to a non-air-conditioned school in an Atlanta summer. (I'm not
even sure there are any in Atlanta itself, but it wouldn't surprise me
at all to have them out in some of the rural districts.)

I attended non-air-conditioned schools in S.C. and Mississippi while
growing up, and it was pretty much unbearable for the last half of May
and the first half of September.

Clisby

Clisby

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:23:42 -0600, "Donna Metler"
wrote:

If it became the norm, the *opportunities* would adjust and
change to serve the population. While the transition might
be awkward, I think it would be pretty short if the entire
country began to do year round schooling.

How can a program like Interlochen do it's summer program in little chunks
all year? Or the Carnegie Mellon APEA program, which is dependent on the
college facilities being available? You can't do the sort of group music
teaching, at the level these programs offer, in only 2 weeks. (CMU is
equivalent to a semester of college coursework, in several areas at once).
Interlochen has a full-year boarding program. You can't do a full summer
stock theatre production, and the training allowed in summer stock, in two
weeks either.

Perhaps these students should be getting high school credit as college
students do for internships when they are off-campus. I don't know
how the adjustment would work, but I know if the program is profitable
and good, they will find a way to adjust it. Perhaps colleges too
would begin to use a year round schedule.

Or, on teacher training-How do you do a program like Tennessee Arts Academy
if only 1/4 of the teachers are off at any time? Do it 4x, with a 4x
expansion in costs? Tell the teachers they can only do it once every 4
years, assuming they don't switch tracks? Now figure that throughout the
state there will almost certainly be a track starting or ending on EVERY
Monday that isn't a federal holiday-you'd never work out scheduling.

It would accomodate those who were on the right track and probably
mean that some people could not take it. However, I was thinking more
of the programs for kids than for teachers. Perhaps they would offer
more evening and weekend classes and have people finish over a longer
period of time.

It's all well and good to say "They'd adjust", but I expect such programs
would end up just plain not existing. And the costs would be to the
children's education. For children (and, for that matter, teachers) actively
involved in the fine and performing arts, such programs fill a role that the
regular school cannot fill. Even the best magnet schools are nowhere near
the quality or intensity of Carnegie-Mellon, Berklee, Interlochen, or Blue
Lake.

And? If these programs are intensive and at the high school level,
why not give the kids both high school and college credit for them
instead of having them attend a regular high school at all?


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:50:04 -0600, toto
wrote:

It would accomodate those who were on the right track and probably
mean that some people could not take it. However, I was thinking more
of the programs for kids than for teachers. Perhaps they would offer
more evening and weekend classes and have people finish over a longer
period of time.

Sorry to follow up my own post, but a thought occurred to me that
perhaps, the schools would be able to give teachers sabbaticals
just as colleges and some businesses do know for people who
qualified for intensive programs that would be upgrading their skills
and knowledge.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Ericka Kammerer wrote:


I'm not so sure. We have a handfull of schools
around here that are on a year-round program. The local
daycares have just adapted and provide full day care
during the breaks, just as they provide full day care
during the summer. I think the only difficulty would
be if a particular school were the only year round
school among many traditional calendar schools, such
that the community didn't adapt much.



But I wouldn't want full day care during the breaks. If both I and my
husband had to WOH, I'd rather hire a summer sitter/nanny/whatever to
look after the kids at our home during the breaks, and it seems like
that would be harder to arrange. If all you needed was a teenager a
few hours a day, it would probably be easy - if the high-schoolers were
on the same year-round schedule, this would be one way for them to make
money; but I wouldn't want to leave a high-schooler with my kids all day
long.

Clisby

toto wrote:

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:45:28 -0500, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:


I think there are a lot of good things about
year round schooling, but I think if it became the
norm, there would be some lost opportunities. At the
very least, there would be a really awkward transition
period.


If it became the norm, the *opportunities* would adjust and
change to serve the population. While the transition might
be awkward, I think it would be pretty short if the entire
country began to do year round schooling.


Really? I don't think it would be all that easy.
*Many* things would adapt, and some would be even easier,
but I think things like Interlochen would have a rough
time. They would absolutely have to cut the program
down to less than eight weeks, which is going to take
away some of what they can do. They would still have
to have it in the summer (because of the facilities and
because they draw on university faculty and students
for teachers and counselors). But if everyone went to
year round schooling, the breaks would almost certainly
be all over the map, and everyone wouldn't be free at
the same time. Breaks would likely be so staggered
that you wouldn't even be able to run, say, two
four week sessions and catch the bulk of kids--and
you couldn't do more than that because of the staff
availability. The whole point of Interlochen is to
have a very elite, very in depth camp. Shortening it
and making it available to large chunks of students
would jeopardize both those things.

Best wishes,
Ericka

toto wrote:


And? If these programs are intensive and at the high school level,
why not give the kids both high school and college credit for them
instead of having them attend a regular high school at all?


Because as lovely as they are, they are pure performing
arts with no academics, and high schoolers still have to get
in their basic academics somewhere.

Best wishes,
Ericka

My son is in year round school in North Carolina. The year round schools in
North Carolina are optional. You are not forced to be on a year round
schedule. I really like the year round schedule because of the homework.
My son in second grade has so much homework, that it is really nice to get a
three week break after nine weeks. It's also very nice to take vacations
during trackout, because less people take their vacations in September,
January, etc. We have gone to Disney twice in January and have encountered
less crowds. Currently, there are no year round high schools, so it will be
difficult if my daughter is in year round school, and my son is in
traditional school. Hopefully, by then, things will change.


"Clisby" wrote in message
...


Nevermind wrote:
Clisby wrote in message
...

toto wrote:


Frequent breaks that enable teachers to relax, travel, study,
and pursue other recreational activities which may reduce
stress factors.



I'd be interested to hear what teachers on the group think about this.
I would have thought a 2.5-month summer vacation would be better for
travel, study, etc. (Are there many certification-related courses you
can take in a 3-week period?)


My DH is a teacher, he works during the summer, as do all of his male
teacher friends, that I know of. His summer work is currently an
important part of our yearly income. So, this might be a problem for
some people: the vacations would have to be vacations and could not be
used to make money. However, it has already been problematic for us
that he only ever has available vacation time in the summer; I do
think it would be nice if he had time available at various times of
the year. It's a lot cheaper to do certain vacations "off-season."


Looking at it solely from my 7-year-old's standpoint - I think she'd
thrive on the 45/15 plan. She loves her school, and while she likes
summer vacation, too, she's really getting bored by the first of August.
The weather/mosquitoes are so miserable here by early August that I
can't bear to do any outside activities -


That brings up the other issue that springs immediately to my mind:
very few public schools around here are air-conditioned, despite hot
summers. I think they'd need to be air-conditioned to have any real
learning go on in the summer. (If you can't even go to the park in
some of your summer weather, can you imagine teaching or learning
calculus during it?)

Not in a school that didn't have air conditioning - and I wouldn't send
my child to a non-air-conditioned school in an Atlanta summer. (I'm not
even sure there are any in Atlanta itself, but it wouldn't surprise me
at all to have them out in some of the rural districts.)

I attended non-air-conditioned schools in S.C. and Mississippi while
growing up, and it was pretty much unbearable for the last half of May
and the first half of September.

Clisby

Clisby

toto wrote in :

http://www.msde.state.md.us/Fact_She...ved/fact3.html

1. What is a year-round school?

A year-round school is a school that operates on a 12-month
schedule instead of the traditional 10-month schedule. Under
a conventional school schedule, students attend school for
180 days between September and June, with approximately
10 weeks of vacation during the summer, one week off in the
winter, one week off in the spring, and 10-15 days off for
holidays. A year-round school schedule (utilizing a 45/15 plan,
[snip]

As a comparision schools in the UK tend to be organised into three
terms, with three longer holidays, and three half-term holidays.

FWIW, I've put in the dates for England, the Scottish ones are slightly
different.

Academic year starts in early September, and the first term lasts until
just before Christmas: schools also have a week off in late October/early
November. Then there is a two/three week holiday, before school starts
again in early January.

The second term lasts until Easter: yes, the term depends on the date of
the Christian festival, which means some years this is a short term, and
other years a very long term. There is a week's half-term holiday in the
middle and two/three weeks off around Easter.

The summer term takes us from Easter up to the end of July. Again there is
a week's half-term holiday.

The summer holiday lasts 6 - 8 weeks, and then it is back to school in
September.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three