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#11
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vegans sentenced for baby death
I don't honestly understand how they didn't understand there wasn't anything wrong with their baby. It had to have been crying all the time, unhappy, losing weight. Maybe they considered pot to be part of their vegan regime. Christ. Some don't deserve to have children. The only thing that makes me homicidally ****ed is people who kill their babies. in very young babies they can become sleepy and appear content and because newborn babies are supposed to be sleepy it can be confusing, it's only after about 6-8 weeks that the happy, sleeping well applies to health, a newborn can appear happy and sleeping well, but be slowly becoming more and more jaundiced and underweight. Anne |
#12
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vegans sentenced for baby death
"Amethyst Deceiver" wrote in message ... wrote: In this case you do have to question why this baby was let down by the social sevices. it should have been taken into care Looong before it got to 3lbs surely? Social services didn't know about the baby. The family didn't use medical services during pregnancy or after. I don't see how that matters. Is there not any type of civilization where these people lived? Do they not have friends. Family. Neighbours. Grocery store trips. Whatever. Here, anyways, child protection/social services works at all angles. If any random person sees something, that helps social services. I can't believe that NO ONE would have ever seen this baby at all. In all honesty, I'm one to, on occasion, comment on a baby and ask how old or whatever. If I saw a baby THAT small (never actually seen a 3lb baby with my own eyes, just pictures or whatever) but if I did see one that small, I'd definitely ask how old the baby was and it would definitely come across with warning bells of some sort. They don't even let babies out of the hospital unless they are at least 5lbs (which, IIRC, is because infant car seats do not go lower than 5lbs for minimum weight) I'd be calling social services right away. If it meant I had to follow them, take a license plate and description of the car down, follow a bus or whatever, I'd do it. If my neighbour walked out of their house with what looks like an extremely sickly baby no more than 3lbs, I do believe I would speak up for the safety of that child. I find it hard to believe that these people lived so isolated that NO ONE saw or heard a thing. -- YoungBloke: 3 years, 92cm, 13kg and still BF |
#13
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vegans sentenced for baby death
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message . .. I don't honestly understand how they didn't understand there wasn't anything wrong with their baby. It had to have been crying all the time, unhappy, losing weight. Maybe they considered pot to be part of their vegan regime. Christ. Some don't deserve to have children. The only thing that makes me homicidally ****ed is people who kill their babies. in very young babies they can become sleepy and appear content and because newborn babies are supposed to be sleepy it can be confusing, it's only after about 6-8 weeks that the happy, sleeping well applies to health, a newborn can appear happy and sleeping well, but be slowly becoming more and more jaundiced and underweight. Anne For me, when I think of a "normal, happy, healthy" baby, I don't think of one that is extremely underweight. Even when I was extremely young and with my first, I knew the difference between weight gain and weight loss. Even common sense would tell me that something is not alright if my newborn fit into certain clothes at the beginning, then even those clothes got far too BIG as time went on. Common sense tells me that babies would grow and gain weight, not shrivel up and loose extreme amounts of weight. |
#14
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vegans sentenced for baby death
I don't honestly understand how they didn't understand there wasn't
anything wrong with their baby. It had to have been crying all the time, unhappy, losing weight. Maybe they considered pot to be part of their vegan regime. Christ. Some don't deserve to have children. The only thing that makes me homicidally ****ed is people who kill their babies. in very young babies they can become sleepy and appear content and because newborn babies are supposed to be sleepy it can be confusing, it's only after about 6-8 weeks that the happy, sleeping well applies to health, a newborn can appear happy and sleeping well, but be slowly becoming more and more jaundiced and underweight. For me, when I think of a "normal, happy, healthy" baby, I don't think of one that is extremely underweight. no, and I do suspect that there was some kind of knowing abusing going on here rather than complete ignorance, but on the off chance it was complete ignorance, the behaviour of this baby could have been very unobtrusive and not altering it's parents or other people to it's desparate need. I wonder if there was some kind of complete denial of this going on, they say it was homebirth, usually homebirthers are very motivated, which doesn't ring with how they treated the baby, if for some reason they had some perverse against breastfeeding stance, they likely would have bought the best quality non dairy formula, instead, I wonder if they homebirthed and shunned antenatal care because they were denying it was happening, then the birth was straight forward, so no dash to the emergency room, then the baby was fed with what was in the house, which as vegans would be the regular soy milk, then they didn't notice any problems simply because they were somehow blind to it. I wonder what a psychiatric assessment would say, it doesn't quite ring true as straightforward abuse, I mean, I think the birth that goes with that would be the one that would be most comfortable for mum, probably with a lot of drugs. Anne |
#15
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vegans sentenced for baby death
Anne Rogers wrote:
I wonder what a psychiatric assessment would say, it doesn't quite ring true as straightforward abuse, I mean, I think the birth that goes with that would be the one that would be most comfortable for mum, probably with a lot of drugs. There is the opposite end of the spectrum, though. I have heard a first-hand account (i.e. from the mother) of a homebirth midwife who was so distrustful of the medical community that the midwife told her assistant and the grandmother NOT to call 911 during labor when there were clear signs of distress. The baby was born not breathing, floppy, and dark purple. The grandmother of the baby went against the midwife's wishes and called an ambulance after she saw the condition of the baby when she was born. Once everyone was at the hospital, the doctor would come out periodically and give a report on the baby's condition, and the midwife would basically dismiss it as "nonsense" or "he's just trying to scare you, that's how doctor's are." If left up to the midwife, the baby would have died at home without ever seeing a doctor, and the midwife thought she was doing the right thing by keeping her away from the "evil medical establishment". I can definitely see where a person who is homebirthing is doing so because they don't trust the medical community, and where they would think that any medical treatment would be dangerous or inferior to a natural, holistic, organic, vegan, etc, etc treatment at home. Yes, it would probably have to get to the point of pathological denial once your baby weighs 3 lbs, but I'm pretty sure that neglect of that kind is the same as abuse (at least legally in the US). Jodi |
#16
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vegans sentenced for baby death
On May 11, 12:14�am, "xkatx" wrote:
That's disgusting. *Apple juice, first off, to a newborn?!?!? *I honestly don't know if this is the norm in other places, but quite frankly, juice here is NOT part of a newborn's diet. They didn't know he was in danger until minutes before the baby was dead? Give me a break. *Even a premature baby born doesn't leave the hospital at that weight! *Here, small babies are let out of the hospital when they hit the 5lb mark (and assuming everything else is good and there's no other concerns) so how the hell could anyone think that 3lbs is alright?? * I totally agree with you in general, but actually weight is not the primary consideration when figuring out whether a premature baby is healthy enough to go home. Plenty do go home under five pounds -- my nephew was some incredibly small weight, I no longer remember how small, but definitely under four pounds. But that's not really relevant to this case at all. --Helen |
#17
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vegans sentenced for baby death
" wrote in message oups.com... On May 11, 12:14?am, "xkatx" wrote: That's disgusting. Apple juice, first off, to a newborn?!?!? I honestly don't know if this is the norm in other places, but quite frankly, juice here is NOT part of a newborn's diet. They didn't know he was in danger until minutes before the baby was dead? Give me a break. Even a premature baby born doesn't leave the hospital at that weight! Here, small babies are let out of the hospital when they hit the 5lb mark (and assuming everything else is good and there's no other concerns) so how the hell could anyone think that 3lbs is alright?? I totally agree with you in general, but actually weight is not the primary consideration when figuring out whether a premature baby is healthy enough to go home. Plenty do go home under five pounds -- my nephew was some incredibly small weight, I no longer remember how small, but definitely under four pounds. But that's not really relevant to this case at all. --Helen Here, it's 5lbs because infant car seats are not made for a baby under that weight. Not relevant at all to the article or issue discussed, but that's how it is over here. Other places can be, and often are, different. An otherwise healthy, normal (premature) baby isn't released until they hit the 5lb mark because of the car seat issue. Won't even let you leave the hospital unless you have a car seat to take the baby home in (even if you're not going home in a vehicle) If a baby is premature, they do have other factors - like the general ones to ensure the baby is fit to go as far as health goes |
#18
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vegans sentenced for baby death
On May 10, 3:12 pm, "Anne Rogers" wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/ OK, I have to admit, after reading this thread I panicked about Shiloh's rash (see new thread) and scheduled a visit with the ped. I had nightmare visions of his staph infection spreading all over his body and me not doing anything about it because I didn't want to be One of Those Paranoid Parents. So I brought him in, and basically was One of Those Paranoid Parents (the on-call ped asked if this was our first child...). :P Em mama to Micah, 11/14/04; Shiloh, 4/22/07 |
#19
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vegans sentenced for baby death
xkatx skrev:
Here, it's 5lbs because infant car seats are not made for a baby under that weight. LOL That really made me laugh. If that would be an issue here for me I'd really be ****ed!! I don't even own a car. Cars are very heavily taxed in Denmark and not all families have one. We bike a lot or take a bus or walk. Culture differs!!! :-) Tine, Denmark |
#20
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vegans sentenced for baby death
emilymr skrev:
One of Those Paranoid Parents. So I brought him in, and basically was One of Those Paranoid Parents (the on-call ped asked if this was our first child...). :P I'd much much rather be One of Those Paranoid Parents 10 times than I'd be One of Those Neglecting Parents once. So go on and be One of Those Paranoid Parents! Tine, Denmark |
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