Man Forced To Use Loan For Child Support, Not Car

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

This guy has no one to blame but himself. If he can afford to buy a new
car, he
can afford to make CS payments.

You're doing exactly what the media wants. You have no background on the
father to make this presumption.

And please everyone spare everyone else the *he needs a decent car to get
to
and from work* BS. He could easily have gotten a decent car for less than
5K
and then used the remainder of what he would be using to pay off a 21K
loan to
support his children. Hence the very appropriate "This case is a good
example
of the hundreds of cases we see each year where
noncustodial parents are making the wrong decisions and have their
priorities
way out of whack," comment.

You do not know that the vehicle he is buying is an unreasonable purchase.
Remember this is a loan! He's paying X per month to gain the use of a
vehicle. It's entirely possible that the car bought for $5K would cost him
$10K in the first year, this is not uncommon. Perhaps the reliability of a
new car and warranty is essential so he's not going to lose time off work
for old car issues.

He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

The other side of this is we have no background on the father, no reason to
believe the hype spewed by the prosecution.

Call 6 had this to say when I questioned them: "The fact is this man owed
child support, and instead of paying that court ordered money the went to
get a loan to buy a car. There is nothing subjective about that reporting.
The prosecutor does make some comments about misplaced priorities, but those
are quotes we reported from him -- not inferences we are drawing."

This suggests to me that they feel the same as the prosecutor. They can't
see the father's p-o-v.

I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car? I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car? The car would
improve my chances of seeing my daughters and would improve my chances of
finding a more family friendly job. For a salesman, say real estate, a $5K
car would be a poor choice in doing business.

Cameron

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

This guy has no one to blame but himself. If he can afford to buy a new
car, he
can afford to make CS payments.

You're doing exactly what the media wants. You have no background on the
father to make this presumption.

And please everyone spare everyone else the *he needs a decent car to get
to
and from work* BS. He could easily have gotten a decent car for less than
5K
and then used the remainder of what he would be using to pay off a 21K
loan to
support his children. Hence the very appropriate "This case is a good
example
of the hundreds of cases we see each year where
noncustodial parents are making the wrong decisions and have their
priorities
way out of whack," comment.

You do not know that the vehicle he is buying is an unreasonable purchase.
Remember this is a loan! He's paying X per month to gain the use of a
vehicle. It's entirely possible that the car bought for $5K would cost him
$10K in the first year, this is not uncommon. Perhaps the reliability of a
new car and warranty is essential so he's not going to lose time off work
for old car issues.

He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

The other side of this is we have no background on the father, no reason to
believe the hype spewed by the prosecution.

Call 6 had this to say when I questioned them: "The fact is this man owed
child support, and instead of paying that court ordered money the went to
get a loan to buy a car. There is nothing subjective about that reporting.
The prosecutor does make some comments about misplaced priorities, but those
are quotes we reported from him -- not inferences we are drawing."

This suggests to me that they feel the same as the prosecutor. They can't
see the father's p-o-v.

I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car? I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car? The car would
improve my chances of seeing my daughters and would improve my chances of
finding a more family friendly job. For a salesman, say real estate, a $5K
car would be a poor choice in doing business.

Cameron

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

This guy has no one to blame but himself. If he can afford to buy a new
car, he
can afford to make CS payments.

You're doing exactly what the media wants. You have no background on the
father to make this presumption.

And please everyone spare everyone else the *he needs a decent car to get
to
and from work* BS. He could easily have gotten a decent car for less than
5K
and then used the remainder of what he would be using to pay off a 21K
loan to
support his children. Hence the very appropriate "This case is a good
example
of the hundreds of cases we see each year where
noncustodial parents are making the wrong decisions and have their
priorities
way out of whack," comment.

You do not know that the vehicle he is buying is an unreasonable purchase.
Remember this is a loan! He's paying X per month to gain the use of a
vehicle. It's entirely possible that the car bought for $5K would cost him
$10K in the first year, this is not uncommon. Perhaps the reliability of a
new car and warranty is essential so he's not going to lose time off work
for old car issues.

He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

The other side of this is we have no background on the father, no reason to
believe the hype spewed by the prosecution.

Call 6 had this to say when I questioned them: "The fact is this man owed
child support, and instead of paying that court ordered money the went to
get a loan to buy a car. There is nothing subjective about that reporting.
The prosecutor does make some comments about misplaced priorities, but those
are quotes we reported from him -- not inferences we are drawing."

This suggests to me that they feel the same as the prosecutor. They can't
see the father's p-o-v.

I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car? I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car? The car would
improve my chances of seeing my daughters and would improve my chances of
finding a more family friendly job. For a salesman, say real estate, a $5K
car would be a poor choice in doing business.

Cameron

I would think the loan would be contingent on the financial institution
getting the Title to the car?

It's too bad we as a group can't begin to standup to these government
thieves.

Dusty wrote:
wrote in message
...

I think we are all assuming this guy was in arrears. But!!!!! does
anybody have the full scoop? Why did he get a loan and put the cash
in the account. Why not just finance it thru some other means. What
is the full story?


Well, to start with, not all banks send the check directly to the car lot.
If it was a Credit Union, they might actually give one the check and not
actually care what you spent it on. Of course, if you default on the loan,
they'll want you to produce the collateral... thereby you'd be in a
catch-22 and royally screwed.

I would think the loan would be contingent on the financial institution
getting the Title to the car?

It's too bad we as a group can't begin to standup to these government
thieves.

Dusty wrote:
wrote in message
...

I think we are all assuming this guy was in arrears. But!!!!! does
anybody have the full scoop? Why did he get a loan and put the cash
in the account. Why not just finance it thru some other means. What
is the full story?


Well, to start with, not all banks send the check directly to the car lot.
If it was a Credit Union, they might actually give one the check and not
actually care what you spent it on. Of course, if you default on the loan,
they'll want you to produce the collateral... thereby you'd be in a
catch-22 and royally screwed.

I would think the loan would be contingent on the financial institution
getting the Title to the car?

It's too bad we as a group can't begin to standup to these government
thieves.

Dusty wrote:
wrote in message
...

I think we are all assuming this guy was in arrears. But!!!!! does
anybody have the full scoop? Why did he get a loan and put the cash
in the account. Why not just finance it thru some other means. What
is the full story?


Well, to start with, not all banks send the check directly to the car lot.
If it was a Credit Union, they might actually give one the check and not
actually care what you spent it on. Of course, if you default on the loan,
they'll want you to produce the collateral... thereby you'd be in a
catch-22 and royally screwed.

Cameron Stevens wrote:

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

This guy has no one to blame but himself. If he can afford to buy a new
car, he
can afford to make CS payments.

You're doing exactly what the media wants. You have no background on the
father to make this presumption.

However there are certain givens. CSE doesn't go after a NCPs bank account to
the tune of 21K if they are current with their CS payments. CSE generally won't
even get involved unless the arrears are signifigant. If one is behind with
their CS they ought to get that taken care of before they start treating
themselves to a 21K car.


And please everyone spare everyone else the *he needs a decent car to get
to
and from work* BS. He could easily have gotten a decent car for less than
5K
and then used the remainder of what he would be using to pay off a 21K
loan to
support his children. Hence the very appropriate "This case is a good
example
of the hundreds of cases we see each year where
noncustodial parents are making the wrong decisions and have their
priorities
way out of whack," comment.

You do not know that the vehicle he is buying is an unreasonable purchase.

LOL, a 21K car is unreasonable for someone who is delinquent in CS, IMHO.

Remember this is a loan! He's paying X per month to gain the use of a
vehicle. It's entirely possible that the car bought for $5K would cost him
$10K in the first year, this is not uncommon.

And your point is? If he has the cash to make the payment on a 21K loan then he
has the cash to make his CS payments.

Perhaps the reliability of a
new car and warranty is essential so he's not going to lose time off work
for old car issues.

Oh please. There are plenty of decent used cars for sale.


He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

No one is going to lend anyone 21K if they don't have the level of income to
pay it back. If he can make the loan payments he can make the CS payments.


The other side of this is we have no background on the father, no reason to
believe the hype spewed by the prosecution.

What hype? He was in arreas and they took money he was going to use for a
luxory and directed it to an pre existing debt.

Actually this isn't that much different than say he owed Visa a bunch of money
and he stopped paying them. Visa could get a judgement against him and take any
money that he put into any account with his social security number on it. If
Visa, or any other creditor can do it why shouldn't CSE be able to do this for
CS?


Call 6 had this to say when I questioned them: "The fact is this man owed
child support, and instead of paying that court ordered money the went to
get a loan to buy a car. There is nothing subjective about that reporting.
The prosecutor does make some comments about misplaced priorities, but those
are quotes we reported from him -- not inferences we are drawing."

This suggests to me that they feel the same as the prosecutor. They can't
see the father's p-o-v.

And what would that POV be? That having a 21K car is more important than making
sure his prior obligations to support his children is taken care of?


I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car?

If you owe 14K and you were to go out and buy a 21K car, I'd think YOUR
priorities are screwed up too.

I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car?

It amazes me that anyone would go out and spend a lot of money on a car when
they owe a boat load of CS. Decent cars are available for a whole lot less than
21K. Buying a decent car wouldn't make anyone a dead beat.

The car would
improve my chances of seeing my daughters and would improve my chances of
finding a more family friendly job. For a salesman, say real estate, a $5K
car would be a poor choice in doing business.

Oh I don't know about that. There are plenty of real estate agents that don't
drive 21K cars and have no problem seeing their kids.

Mrs Indyguy

Cameron

Cameron Stevens wrote:

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

This guy has no one to blame but himself. If he can afford to buy a new
car, he
can afford to make CS payments.

You're doing exactly what the media wants. You have no background on the
father to make this presumption.

However there are certain givens. CSE doesn't go after a NCPs bank account to
the tune of 21K if they are current with their CS payments. CSE generally won't
even get involved unless the arrears are signifigant. If one is behind with
their CS they ought to get that taken care of before they start treating
themselves to a 21K car.


And please everyone spare everyone else the *he needs a decent car to get
to
and from work* BS. He could easily have gotten a decent car for less than
5K
and then used the remainder of what he would be using to pay off a 21K
loan to
support his children. Hence the very appropriate "This case is a good
example
of the hundreds of cases we see each year where
noncustodial parents are making the wrong decisions and have their
priorities
way out of whack," comment.

You do not know that the vehicle he is buying is an unreasonable purchase.

LOL, a 21K car is unreasonable for someone who is delinquent in CS, IMHO.

Remember this is a loan! He's paying X per month to gain the use of a
vehicle. It's entirely possible that the car bought for $5K would cost him
$10K in the first year, this is not uncommon.

And your point is? If he has the cash to make the payment on a 21K loan then he
has the cash to make his CS payments.

Perhaps the reliability of a
new car and warranty is essential so he's not going to lose time off work
for old car issues.

Oh please. There are plenty of decent used cars for sale.


He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

No one is going to lend anyone 21K if they don't have the level of income to
pay it back. If he can make the loan payments he can make the CS payments.


The other side of this is we have no background on the father, no reason to
believe the hype spewed by the prosecution.

What hype? He was in arreas and they took money he was going to use for a
luxory and directed it to an pre existing debt.

Actually this isn't that much different than say he owed Visa a bunch of money
and he stopped paying them. Visa could get a judgement against him and take any
money that he put into any account with his social security number on it. If
Visa, or any other creditor can do it why shouldn't CSE be able to do this for
CS?


Call 6 had this to say when I questioned them: "The fact is this man owed
child support, and instead of paying that court ordered money the went to
get a loan to buy a car. There is nothing subjective about that reporting.
The prosecutor does make some comments about misplaced priorities, but those
are quotes we reported from him -- not inferences we are drawing."

This suggests to me that they feel the same as the prosecutor. They can't
see the father's p-o-v.

And what would that POV be? That having a 21K car is more important than making
sure his prior obligations to support his children is taken care of?


I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car?

If you owe 14K and you were to go out and buy a 21K car, I'd think YOUR
priorities are screwed up too.

I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car?

It amazes me that anyone would go out and spend a lot of money on a car when
they owe a boat load of CS. Decent cars are available for a whole lot less than
21K. Buying a decent car wouldn't make anyone a dead beat.

The car would
improve my chances of seeing my daughters and would improve my chances of
finding a more family friendly job. For a salesman, say real estate, a $5K
car would be a poor choice in doing business.

Oh I don't know about that. There are plenty of real estate agents that don't
drive 21K cars and have no problem seeing their kids.

Mrs Indyguy

Cameron

Cameron Stevens wrote:

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...

This guy has no one to blame but himself. If he can afford to buy a new
car, he
can afford to make CS payments.

You're doing exactly what the media wants. You have no background on the
father to make this presumption.

However there are certain givens. CSE doesn't go after a NCPs bank account to
the tune of 21K if they are current with their CS payments. CSE generally won't
even get involved unless the arrears are signifigant. If one is behind with
their CS they ought to get that taken care of before they start treating
themselves to a 21K car.


And please everyone spare everyone else the *he needs a decent car to get
to
and from work* BS. He could easily have gotten a decent car for less than
5K
and then used the remainder of what he would be using to pay off a 21K
loan to
support his children. Hence the very appropriate "This case is a good
example
of the hundreds of cases we see each year where
noncustodial parents are making the wrong decisions and have their
priorities
way out of whack," comment.

You do not know that the vehicle he is buying is an unreasonable purchase.

LOL, a 21K car is unreasonable for someone who is delinquent in CS, IMHO.

Remember this is a loan! He's paying X per month to gain the use of a
vehicle. It's entirely possible that the car bought for $5K would cost him
$10K in the first year, this is not uncommon.

And your point is? If he has the cash to make the payment on a 21K loan then he
has the cash to make his CS payments.

Perhaps the reliability of a
new car and warranty is essential so he's not going to lose time off work
for old car issues.

Oh please. There are plenty of decent used cars for sale.


He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

No one is going to lend anyone 21K if they don't have the level of income to
pay it back. If he can make the loan payments he can make the CS payments.


The other side of this is we have no background on the father, no reason to
believe the hype spewed by the prosecution.

What hype? He was in arreas and they took money he was going to use for a
luxory and directed it to an pre existing debt.

Actually this isn't that much different than say he owed Visa a bunch of money
and he stopped paying them. Visa could get a judgement against him and take any
money that he put into any account with his social security number on it. If
Visa, or any other creditor can do it why shouldn't CSE be able to do this for
CS?


Call 6 had this to say when I questioned them: "The fact is this man owed
child support, and instead of paying that court ordered money the went to
get a loan to buy a car. There is nothing subjective about that reporting.
The prosecutor does make some comments about misplaced priorities, but those
are quotes we reported from him -- not inferences we are drawing."

This suggests to me that they feel the same as the prosecutor. They can't
see the father's p-o-v.

And what would that POV be? That having a 21K car is more important than making
sure his prior obligations to support his children is taken care of?


I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car?

If you owe 14K and you were to go out and buy a 21K car, I'd think YOUR
priorities are screwed up too.

I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car?

It amazes me that anyone would go out and spend a lot of money on a car when
they owe a boat load of CS. Decent cars are available for a whole lot less than
21K. Buying a decent car wouldn't make anyone a dead beat.

The car would
improve my chances of seeing my daughters and would improve my chances of
finding a more family friendly job. For a salesman, say real estate, a $5K
car would be a poor choice in doing business.

Oh I don't know about that. There are plenty of real estate agents that don't
drive 21K cars and have no problem seeing their kids.

Mrs Indyguy

Cameron

Mrs. IndyGuy...

"Indyguy1" wrote in message
...
However there are certain givens. CSE doesn't go after a NCPs bank account
to
the tune of 21K if they are current with their CS payments. CSE generally
won't
even get involved unless the arrears are signifigant. If one is behind
with
their CS they ought to get that taken care of before they start treating
themselves to a 21K car.

They do so. The FRO, Ontario's agency of annoyance, will go after you for
$5K... You seem to think $21K is alot for a car. I don't but I'm in
Canada... Even converted a $30K car isn't much. It's a nice Sunfire, a
Malibu, a base Impala. These are not unreasonable cars for day-to-day life.
Why do you feel that repaying support means you should live in a box and
walk to work?

There's no information from the father's court that suggests he's being
unreasonable! It's entirely possible that he's been in arrears because he
was turfed from Lucent and is now a shoe salesman and the support hasn't
been adjusted.

What I'm saying is that *WE*, the audience, don't know what his predicament
is and just like the state shouldn't be yanking funds arbitrarily, we don't
have a right to presume he's a Deadbeat rather than just trying to live
comfortably.

LOL, a 21K car is unreasonable for someone who is delinquent in CS, IMHO.

Yes, in your HUMBLE opinion.

And your point is? If he has the cash to make the payment on a 21K loan
then he
has the cash to make his CS payments.

Your presumption is that he's not making payments. He may be. YOU DON'T
KNOW!

He may have been better off in a lease, but look at the facts we DO
have...
The state took money from his account that was destined for a car
purchase,
whether it's 21K or 5K would make no real difference.

No one is going to lend anyone 21K if they don't have the level of income
to
pay it back. If he can make the loan payments he can make the CS payments.

Excuse me... Students get loans for this sort of $$ daily. He could be
making $24K-$34K and pull this off.

Actually this isn't that much different than say he owed Visa a bunch of
money
and he stopped paying them. Visa could get a judgement against him and
take any
money that he put into any account with his social security number on it.
If
Visa, or any other creditor can do it why shouldn't CSE be able to do this
for
CS?

Yes, they could... The difference is that CS is not always a fairly
concluded amount and keeps acruing while you find the cash to fight it.

And what would that POV be? That having a 21K car is more important than
making
sure his prior obligations to support his children is taken care of?




I owe ~14K... Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car?

If you owe 14K and you were to go out and buy a 21K car, I'd think YOUR
priorities are screwed up too.

I work hard. I pay more than I should in CS and I have no recourse. On May
1st I may be subject to a 50% increase in support payments (above my $1000
/month) and the arrears will increase. Is this my fault, no. It's the
system. It's not fair, or just and people like you fuel the Deadbeat Dad
fight with no comprehension of the impact on the victims. The father (NCP)
is just one of the victims. My daughters are two more, and my family round
out the group.

I'm paying my support,
but I still owe. Am I a Deadbeat Dad if I buy a decent car?

It amazes me that anyone would go out and spend a lot of money on a car
when
they owe a boat load of CS. Decent cars are available for a whole lot less
than
21K. Buying a decent car wouldn't make anyone a dead beat.

I'm lucky right now. Where I work doesn't require a car of me, but... There
are jobs that require a car, even a 21K car. Perhaps this car was a taxi.
Would that be a problem for you? If my circumstances changed tomorrow I
could spend $300 getting to work by transit each month. Tell me a car, no
matter the cost, wouldn't make this easier to get things done and see my
daughters. Without it I could not see my daughters on weekday evenings.

Cameron