Toddler sleep issue, help please

Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours. But recently, he's been waking up every three hours, and stays
up for about 2 hours, then only is ready to go back to sleep.
Fortunately, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I can sleep when he sleeps,
but getting up at 1am, and playing until 3 or 4 am, is crazy and I'm a
bit out-of-sorts over this, and am requesting advice. Not interested
in the cry-it-out method. A little more info: his dad, my husband,
is a night owl, and is often up until about 5 am, then sleeps most of
the day. So when little one wakes up in the middle of the night, he
likes to visit dad and play. And dad obliges him, and makes him
really happy and awake by doing really fun stuff with him----I'm
already cranky in the middle of the night, and this makes me more
cranky as I think the stimulation is now WHY he wakes up in the middle
of the night and won't go back to sleep; it's BECAUSE daddy plays with
him (and has almost more fun than in the daytime). Well, this is
making me whacked out with the messed up sleeping pattern. WHat
should I do? I've tried to get hubby to go to bed at a normal
time---but old habits don't go away that easily----I've also tried to
just stay in the darkened bedroom but baby just cries and cries harder
and harder to go out of the bedroom and play. Should I resign myself
to "this too will pass" and go with the flow, or are there methods
other than cry-it-out that have helped others in similar situations?
Thanks so much for any and all help, I'm really confused. I have a
few books "Sweet Dreams" by Dr. Fleiss and "Nightime Parenting" (AP
friendly books) but have not found any answers to this problem.
Thanks again in advance for any and all help!!! - Sarah

Sarah wrote:
Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours.

Okay, who exactly is sleeping in this bedroom? It sounds like your
husband and your child both are up. Why not let them go out of the
bedroom so *you* can sleep! If they aren't willing to do this, maybe you
can go sleep in another room. The point is, if it's perfectly fine with
your husband to take the night shift then he ought to do it and you go get
your sleep! You aren't under the impression that the 18 month must nurse
in the night, are you? It sounds like your husband needs some one-on-one
time with the baby anyway. I say you should just take separate shifts of
baby duty.

Personally, co-sleeping would have killed my marriage. I assume you're
getting your need for private alone time met somehow. Please don't make
the mistake of assuming that your relationship with survive being
completely ignored and pushed to the back burner. There's a reason why so
many parents of three year olds are divorcing. (It's practically a
fashion trend in my son's preschool.)

-- Wendy

"Sarah" wrote in message
om...
in the cry-it-out method. A little more info: his dad, my husband,
is a night owl, and is often up until about 5 am, then sleeps most of
the day. So when little one wakes up in the middle of the night, he
likes to visit dad and play. And dad obliges him, and makes him
really happy and awake by doing really fun stuff with him----I'm
already cranky in the middle of the night, and this makes me more
cranky as I think the stimulation is now WHY he wakes up in the middle
of the night and won't go back to sleep; it's BECAUSE daddy plays with
him (and has almost more fun than in the daytime). Well, this is
making me whacked out with the messed up sleeping pattern. WHat
should I do? I've tried to get hubby to go to bed at a normal
time---but old habits don't go away that easily----I've also tried to
just stay in the darkened bedroom but baby just cries and cries harder
and harder to go out of the bedroom and play.

Does he seem to be well-rested or is he cranky during the day? If he is
well-rested, I'd say let things be and tell them to play more quietly so you
can sleep through it all. He might have just inherited the nightowl
tendency from your DH. OTOH, if he isn't well-rested, I'd say your DH
should stop entertaining him, or else he will have to care for him during
the day when DS is cranky so he will know what it's like, since it's his
fault anyway.

Sarah wrote:

Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours. But recently, he's been waking up every three hours, and stays
up for about 2 hours, then only is ready to go back to sleep.
Fortunately, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I can sleep when he sleeps,
but getting up at 1am, and playing until 3 or 4 am, is crazy and I'm a
bit out-of-sorts over this, and am requesting advice. Not interested
in the cry-it-out method. A little more info: his dad, my husband,
is a night owl, and is often up until about 5 am, then sleeps most of
the day. So when little one wakes up in the middle of the night, he
likes to visit dad and play. And dad obliges him, and makes him
really happy and awake by doing really fun stuff with him----I'm
already cranky in the middle of the night, and this makes me more
cranky as I think the stimulation is now WHY he wakes up in the middle
of the night and won't go back to sleep; it's BECAUSE daddy plays with
him (and has almost more fun than in the daytime). Well, this is
making me whacked out with the messed up sleeping pattern. WHat
should I do? I've tried to get hubby to go to bed at a normal
time---but old habits don't go away that easily----I've also tried to
just stay in the darkened bedroom but baby just cries and cries harder
and harder to go out of the bedroom and play. Should I resign myself
to "this too will pass" and go with the flow, or are there methods
other than cry-it-out that have helped others in similar situations?
Thanks so much for any and all help, I'm really confused. I have a
few books "Sweet Dreams" by Dr. Fleiss and "Nightime Parenting" (AP
friendly books) but have not found any answers to this problem.
Thanks again in advance for any and all help!!! - Sarah


I don't think you have a typical sleep problem here.
This is not about a child not knowing how to go to sleep, or
about co-sleeping vs. sleeping alone. This is, pure and
simple, a situation where the child knows darned well that
he gets daddy playtime in the middle of the night and he
has simply rearranged his schedule to accommodate that.
In fact, if daddy's sleeping much of the day, this may
be the best or only time he gets with daddy. It's not
rocket science that the child will change his schedule
to accommodate getting this special playtime.
You have two choices. You can choose to stick
with this schedule. As long as your son is getting
enough sleep, it's not like something awful is going
to happen as a result of this odd sleep schedule. He
*will* adapt to this schedule, and you'll have a big
challenge on your hands when and if you get to the point
that he needs to keep a more regular schedule. Also,
if I were you, if Daddy isn't interested in changing
this behavior, I'd have it be Daddy's responsibility
to handle all nighttime parenting so you can keep
sleeping without interruption.
Your other choice is to decide that you're
going to keep a more normal schedule. This is going
to be impossible as long as Daddy's up and playing
with your son. It will be extremely difficult if
Daddy continues his night owl behavior (particularly
if it means that Daddy *isn't* available and alert
and playful during the day). If you all get on a
daytime schedule and are relentless about making
nighttime quiet, dark, and boring you will eventually
get back to a normal schedule. However, it's not
going to be easy. You've taught your son that there's
a lot of fun to be had at night, and he's not going
to take any change in that schedule lightly. I know
you don't want a CIO solution, but this is a different
situation. This is not refusing to meet your child's
needs for food or comfort at night. If you decide
to insist that nighttime is for sleeping, then the
crying he does at night despite your being there
and comforting him is *not* typical CIO. It's the
same sort of crying you have to endure if you've got
a child who hates the carseat and wails as long as
he's buckled in--and it will go away very quickly
as he realizes that there simply isn't anything
interesting going on at night. But, as I mentioned
before, that's going to be a hard sell if, in fact,
there *is* something interesting going on at night.
Personally, I have to say that I don't have
an ounce of sympathy for your husband insisting on
being a night owl. He has a wife and child. He
ought to be available to them while they're up, not
stealing time from his family by being up all night.
If he had to work night shift, well, maybe there'd
be nothing to do about it and you would just have
to fight for family time as best you could. But
apparently this is optional, and in that case I
think it's outright irresponsible when the alternative
is that he could be spending time with his family
and sharing the load of parenting.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Sarah wrote:
Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours.

Okay, who exactly is sleeping in this bedroom? It sounds like your
husband and your child both are up. Why not let them go out of the
bedroom so *you* can sleep! If they aren't willing to do this, maybe you
can go sleep in another room. The point is, if it's perfectly fine with
your husband to take the night shift then he ought to do it and you go get
your sleep! You aren't under the impression that the 18 month must nurse
in the night, are you? It sounds like your husband needs some one-on-one
time with the baby anyway. I say you should just take separate shifts of
baby duty.

Personally, co-sleeping would have killed my marriage. I assume you're
getting your need for private alone time met somehow. Please don't make
the mistake of assuming that your relationship with survive being
completely ignored and pushed to the back burner. There's a reason why so
many parents of three year olds are divorcing.

There is a reason, but that reason isn't that they all co-sleep.
Those who do it can balance it and the "relationship" aspects of
the marriage as well.


P. Tierney

"Sarah" wrote in message
om...
Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours. But recently, he's been waking up every three hours, and stays
up for about 2 hours, then only is ready to go back to sleep.
Fortunately, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I can sleep when he sleeps,
but getting up at 1am, and playing until 3 or 4 am, is crazy and I'm a
bit out-of-sorts over this, and am requesting advice. Not interested
in the cry-it-out method. A little more info: his dad, my husband,
is a night owl, and is often up until about 5 am, then sleeps most of
the day. So when little one wakes up in the middle of the night, he
likes to visit dad and play. And dad obliges him, and makes him
really happy and awake by doing really fun stuff with him----I'm
already cranky in the middle of the night, and this makes me more
cranky as I think the stimulation is now WHY he wakes up in the middle
of the night and won't go back to sleep; it's BECAUSE daddy plays with
him (and has almost more fun than in the daytime). Well, this is
making me whacked out with the messed up sleeping pattern. WHat
should I do? I've tried to get hubby to go to bed at a normal
time---but old habits don't go away that easily---

If it isn't the *sure* cause of it, then there isn't any reason for
it to go away (assuming that the rest of the things in life are also
being taken care of). I stay up until 4 am, wake when my child does.
It's no big deal here. My child wouldn't think of hanging out
with me at night since she's completely tired when she goes to
bed.

As for your situation, I'd look at the nap patterns as perhaps
providing a clue. He may be sleeping too much during the day.
Otherwise, he should *need* that lengthy sleep at night, so
especially if he's still on two naps, going down to one might
be a good idea, as well as doing the kind of fun evening activities
that tend to wear a kid out.

But, all of that is daytime stuff. And one thing that I learned
from the sleep books that I read is that the many sleep problems
have nothing to do with what goes on at night, but have their
roots in the daytime. Good luck figuring out what it is.


P. Tierney

I would ask dad to try to break his sleep pattern for a week. This way
he may be tired and want to sleep all night. Then if your son wakes up
and finds that dad isn't willing to play, he just might go back to
sleep. I also wouldn't allow any naps during the day. If dad sees how
cranky he is he may agee with you.

"P. Tierney" wrote in message news:tqvwb.291872$HS4.2616298@attbi_s01...
"Wendy" wrote in message
...
Sarah wrote:
Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours.

Okay, who exactly is sleeping in this bedroom? It sounds like your
husband and your child both are up. Why not let them go out of the
bedroom so *you* can sleep! If they aren't willing to do this, maybe you
can go sleep in another room. The point is, if it's perfectly fine with
your husband to take the night shift then he ought to do it and you go get
your sleep! You aren't under the impression that the 18 month must nurse
in the night, are you? It sounds like your husband needs some one-on-one
time with the baby anyway. I say you should just take separate shifts of
baby duty.

Personally, co-sleeping would have killed my marriage. I assume you're
getting your need for private alone time met somehow. Please don't make
the mistake of assuming that your relationship with survive being
completely ignored and pushed to the back burner. There's a reason why so
many parents of three year olds are divorcing.

There is a reason, but that reason isn't that they all co-sleep.
Those who do it can balance it and the "relationship" aspects of
the marriage as well.


P. Tierney

Well one of two things that come to my mind that I would do:

1. Let dad take care of son during the night while you sleep.

2. Stick to your guns and don't let your son out of the bedroom. This may
involve crying, but it isn't the same as CIO. You should know the difference
in crying because the child doesn't get their way and crying and being left
alone to go to sleep. That isn't what is happening. Your son has manipulated
you enough for you to give in every night and he knows it. He is at an age
where you should start being consistent and not letting him get his way on
certian things.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Sarah wrote in message
om...
Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours. But recently, he's been waking up every three hours, and stays
up for about 2 hours, then only is ready to go back to sleep.
Fortunately, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I can sleep when he sleeps,
but getting up at 1am, and playing until 3 or 4 am, is crazy and I'm a
bit out-of-sorts over this, and am requesting advice. Not interested
in the cry-it-out method. A little more info: his dad, my husband,
is a night owl, and is often up until about 5 am, then sleeps most of
the day. So when little one wakes up in the middle of the night, he
likes to visit dad and play. And dad obliges him, and makes him
really happy and awake by doing really fun stuff with him----I'm
already cranky in the middle of the night, and this makes me more
cranky as I think the stimulation is now WHY he wakes up in the middle
of the night and won't go back to sleep; it's BECAUSE daddy plays with
him (and has almost more fun than in the daytime). Well, this is
making me whacked out with the messed up sleeping pattern. WHat
should I do? I've tried to get hubby to go to bed at a normal
time---but old habits don't go away that easily----I've also tried to
just stay in the darkened bedroom but baby just cries and cries harder
and harder to go out of the bedroom and play. Should I resign myself
to "this too will pass" and go with the flow, or are there methods
other than cry-it-out that have helped others in similar situations?
Thanks so much for any and all help, I'm really confused. I have a
few books "Sweet Dreams" by Dr. Fleiss and "Nightime Parenting" (AP
friendly books) but have not found any answers to this problem.
Thanks again in advance for any and all help!!! - Sarah

"Sue" wrote in message ...
Well one of two things that come to my mind that I would do:

1. Let dad take care of son during the night while you sleep.

2. Stick to your guns and don't let your son out of the bedroom. This may
involve crying, but it isn't the same as CIO. You should know the difference
in crying because the child doesn't get their way and crying and being left
alone to go to sleep. That isn't what is happening. Your son has manipulated
you enough for you to give in every night and he knows it. He is at an age
where you should start being consistent and not letting him get his way on
certian things.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Sarah wrote in message
om...
Hello, I have a year and a half old son. I still nurse him, he sleeps
in bed with us, never had trouble sleeping at night for at least 7
hours. But recently, he's been waking up every three hours, and stays
up for about 2 hours, then only is ready to go back to sleep.
Fortunately, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I can sleep when he sleeps,
but getting up at 1am, and playing until 3 or 4 am, is crazy and I'm a
bit out-of-sorts over this, and am requesting advice. Not interested
in the cry-it-out method. A little more info: his dad, my husband,
is a night owl, and is often up until about 5 am, then sleeps most of
the day. So when little one wakes up in the middle of the night, he
likes to visit dad and play. And dad obliges him, and makes him
really happy and awake by doing really fun stuff with him----I'm
already cranky in the middle of the night, and this makes me more
cranky as I think the stimulation is now WHY he wakes up in the middle
of the night and won't go back to sleep; it's BECAUSE daddy plays with
him (and has almost more fun than in the daytime). Well, this is
making me whacked out with the messed up sleeping pattern. WHat
should I do? I've tried to get hubby to go to bed at a normal
time---but old habits don't go away that easily----I've also tried to
just stay in the darkened bedroom but baby just cries and cries harder
and harder to go out of the bedroom and play. Should I resign myself
to "this too will pass" and go with the flow, or are there methods
other than cry-it-out that have helped others in similar situations?
Thanks so much for any and all help, I'm really confused. I have a
few books "Sweet Dreams" by Dr. Fleiss and "Nightime Parenting" (AP
friendly books) but have not found any answers to this problem.
Thanks again in advance for any and all help!!! - Sarah

I completely understand your frustration. Although i am not in the
same circumstance, it is similar. My son age 2 constantly keeps me
awake. He is up till midnight most nights. I have not yet succeeded
in getting him to bed early. I tried turning off the lights and
sitting with him. Tried taking him to bed with me. Tried everything.
Even though we are cutting out his naps, at least trying to, if he
does not nap he will fall asleep at 8opm and then wake up around 12
and is awake for 2 hrs. So its trial and error. I have 2 other
children as well and so i am going to try putting him to bed with them
but he does not listen at all, terrible twos. Defies everything i say
or do. I could use some help as well, haha
But i agree with someone who said before, in your case i would suggest
just letting you husband deal with him for now, and get the sleep you
need. At least he probably sleeps in the morning. That way he gets
to have the best of both worlds, and a very rested mom too. So good
luck and let me know how things are coming along.

P. Tierney, you are right!!!!! Yesterday and today, I cut back to
shorter naps and earlier in the day, and babe went to bed at a
reasonable time and "almost" slept through the night, NO late night
playing!!!! Wow, what a thrill. Dad played with babe more in
daytime, as well. But I think the biggest issue was too many daytime
naps and napping too late into the evening, where babe just wasn't
tired at night to sleep. So, thanks for everyone's help. P. Tierney,
you nailed it on the head once again. What a great dad you must be!!!
Thanks again, from a happy and well-slept mom once again. --
Sarah


As for your situation, I'd look at the nap patterns as perhaps
providing a clue. He may be sleeping too much during the day.
Otherwise, he should *need* that lengthy sleep at night, so
especially if he's still on two naps, going down to one might
be a good idea, as well as doing the kind of fun evening activities
that tend to wear a kid out.

But, all of that is daytime stuff. And one thing that I learned
from the sleep books that I read is that the many sleep problems
have nothing to do with what goes on at night, but have their
roots in the daytime. Good luck figuring out what it is.


P. Tierney