need help with playgroup problem

We're in a playgroup with 4 other moms--if everyone shows up, we've got 5
moms and 11 kids. My son, at just-turned-3 is the oldest; there are 3 other
2-2.5 year old boys and the rest are under the age of 1.

ANYWAY, my problem is that DS is really having issues with the next oldest
boy. That child has always been on the aggressive side--he's very large for
his age (outweighs DS by a good 15 lbs), and tends to push and shove his way
into getting what he wants. He has poor language skills at this point, but
is above-average in his large motor skill development. For some reason, he
and my DS always seem to butt heads, and pushing, pulling, hitting always
seems to happen. It felt, last time, like this other child was targeting DS
and would shove/hit him and grab whatever toy DS had at the time. DS tends
to respond by screaming, crying, or grabbing back. When these situations
happen, the other mother and I do separate them, we negotiate who should
have the toy, a time-out sometimes occurs. Distraction (offering one another
toy) and using a timer to take turns tend to be our main techniques.

Of course, I think that the other child is more at fault than my own, but I
think DS's reactions and willingness to fight back are what make him a
target. It's a stressful situation for all of us, and I hate the feeling
that DS is learning about hitting and pushing from this kid. (A kid who
doesn't really get much in the way of discipline when these things do
happen.)

Any ideas on how to curb/distract the aggressiveness of this other child,
without offending his mother? My thinking is that I need to think of
activities that will keep both boys occupied, without making them want what
the other has. Play dough worked okay one time, but the other child doesn't
seem to have much of an attention span for any quiet activities like that
(or coloring, etc). When the weather gets nice, we'll be meeting at the
park, so that will fix a lot of things. But at the moment, we're in each
other's homes, surrounded by smaller children who are also at risk (as this
child is also rough with them), and we don't have the space to involve the
kids in really active play (throwing balls or something) that would
discourage the toy-grabbing issues.

I'm at a loss and interested in any suggestions.

--
Jodi
SAHM to Oliver (3 years) & Arwen (10 months)

We're in a playgroup with 4 other moms--if everyone shows up, we've got 5
moms and 11 kids. My son, at just-turned-3 is the oldest; there are 3
other
2-2.5 year old boys and the rest are under the age of 1.

ANYWAY, my problem is that DS is really having issues with the next oldest
boy. That child has always been on the aggressive side--he's very large
for
his age (outweighs DS by a good 15 lbs), and tends to push and shove his
way
into getting what he wants. He has poor language skills at this point, but
is above-average in his large motor skill development. For some reason, he
and my DS always seem to butt heads, and pushing, pulling, hitting always
seems to happen. It felt, last time, like this other child was targeting
DS
and would shove/hit him and grab whatever toy DS had at the time. DS tends
to respond by screaming, crying, or grabbing back. When these situations
happen, the other mother and I do separate them, we negotiate who should
have the toy, a time-out sometimes occurs. Distraction (offering one
another
toy) and using a timer to take turns tend to be our main techniques.

Of course, I think that the other child is more at fault than my own, but
I
think DS's reactions and willingness to fight back are what make him a
target. It's a stressful situation for all of us, and I hate the feeling
that DS is learning about hitting and pushing from this kid. (A kid who
doesn't really get much in the way of discipline when these things do
happen.)

Any ideas on how to curb/distract the aggressiveness of this other child,
without offending his mother? My thinking is that I need to think of
activities that will keep both boys occupied, without making them want
what
the other has. Play dough worked okay one time, but the other child
doesn't
seem to have much of an attention span for any quiet activities like that
(or coloring, etc). When the weather gets nice, we'll be meeting at the
park, so that will fix a lot of things. But at the moment, we're in each
other's homes, surrounded by smaller children who are also at risk (as
this
child is also rough with them), and we don't have the space to involve the
kids in really active play (throwing balls or something) that would
discourage the toy-grabbing issues.

I'm at a loss and interested in any suggestions.

--
Jodi
SAHM to Oliver (3 years) & Arwen (10 months)

I have had a weekly coffee morning now for about 2 yrs. The members come
and go (we're military) so the group of kids changes. I started about 6
months ago putting my kids in the drop-off daycare. It was easier than
getting mad at a friend, not liking her child, etc...and not getting to
enjoy the coffee morning. It ends up being about policing the kids and we
never get to talk. 11 kids is a lot. We've actually stopped inviting women
to join our group cos it would mean more kids. We meet at each other's
houses, taking turns hosting too.

I live for my coffee morning. It's my sanity check - lol. It doesn't seem
like drop-off daycare is available to many people and I know a lot of people
are weird about doing it (the 2 moms with the worst kids in my coffee group
for example). But that's what I do. I'm just not into keeping an eye on
other people's kids, disciplining them, etc...

Sophie
#4 due 7/18/04

In article , hobbes says...


Any ideas on how to curb/distract the aggressiveness of this other child,
without offending his mother? My thinking is that I need to think of
activities that will keep both boys occupied, without making them want what
the other has. Play dough worked okay one time, but the other child doesn't
seem to have much of an attention span for any quiet activities like that
(or coloring, etc). When the weather gets nice, we'll be meeting at the
park, so that will fix a lot of things. But at the moment, we're in each
other's homes, surrounded by smaller children who are also at risk (as this
child is also rough with them), and we don't have the space to involve the
kids in really active play (throwing balls or something) that would
discourage the toy-grabbing issues.

I'm at a loss and interested in any suggestions.

You're not quite at a loss - you already know that the key is in providing an
outlet for physical activity. So, provide it. First of all - take them to the
park in the winter. Yep - take them. Tell the playgroup moms to dress the kids
warm. This is from a mom who has been raising her boy in upstate New York and
Vermont.

Or otherwise get something going in your backyard that's physical. Because
play-doh isn't every kid's idea of a nice good time.

Otherwise, keep in mind that at barely three, the kids are only beginning to
learn self-control, and for that matter are only beginning to want to play iwth
others in any mode other than parallel play. So, since the other mom is paying
attention to the situation, I wouldn't worry too much.

Truth be told, I don't think a playgroup for kids this young is particularly
important anyway.

Banty

hobbes wrote:


Any ideas on how to curb/distract the aggressiveness of this other child,
without offending his mother? My thinking is that I need to think of
activities that will keep both boys occupied, without making them want what
the other has. Play dough worked okay one time, but the other child doesn't
seem to have much of an attention span for any quiet activities like that
(or coloring, etc). When the weather gets nice, we'll be meeting at the
park, so that will fix a lot of things. But at the moment, we're in each
other's homes, surrounded by smaller children who are also at risk (as this
child is also rough with them), and we don't have the space to involve the
kids in really active play (throwing balls or something) that would
discourage the toy-grabbing issues.


I'd probably sit right on top of my kids for a while
so that the other kid had to get through me first. That
not only gives you a way to make sure that your child isn't
pushed/hit/whatever, but it also gives you a chance to model
for your child how to deal with the more aggressive child.
For instance, if the child comes up and is trying to take
a toy away, you can say, "No, Oliver is playing with that
right now. You can play with this other toy, or Oliver
will give the car to you when he's done.... Do you need your
mom to help you figure it out?" Or whatever. He'll
likely start to learn after a while of not having any
particularly good targets.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty wrote:


Truth be told, I don't think a playgroup for kids this young is particularly
important anyway.


I don't think it's at all necessary for the kids, but
some moms really enjoy it and we found that it paved the way
for future Good Things, so I wouldn't discourage it if the OP
is otherwise enjoying it and can find a way to deal with the
current issue.
I do agree that one can take the kids outside even
in winter, unless maybe there are also babies involved.
Our playgroup moved outside, even in cold weather, as we
got too big to be easily accommodated in people's homes
and as the kids got bigger and more active. However, at
the moment I don't usually take the kids if it's really
cold because although the boys would be just fine
running around outside, it's not as great for Genevieve.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article , hobbes wrote:
We're in a playgroup with 4 other moms--if everyone shows up, we've got 5
moms and 11 kids. My son, at just-turned-3 is the oldest; there are 3 other
2-2.5 year old boys and the rest are under the age of 1.

OK, I know this isn't what you asked about, but I'm awestruck by these
numbers. If I am reading correctly, the 5 moms in this group have between
them 7 infants under a year! Wow.

--Robyn

x-no-archive:yes

"hobbes" wrote:

We're in a playgroup with 4 other moms--if everyone shows up, we've got 5
moms and 11 kids. My son, at just-turned-3 is the oldest; there are 3 other
2-2.5 year old boys and the rest are under the age of 1.

ANYWAY, my problem is that DS is really having issues with the next oldest
boy. That child has always been on the aggressive side--he's very large for
his age (outweighs DS by a good 15 lbs), and tends to push and shove his way
into getting what he wants. He has poor language skills at this point, but
is above-average in his large motor skill development.

He sounds like one of my grandsons who was always over 99th %ile in
height and weight with good motor skills. He's now a head taller than
his cousin who is a year older (ages 9 and 10)

I think you are possibly forgetting that the child that has great
motor skills and looks older than his age is still probably not able
to communicate as well as your older child. Even though he is bigger
he is still younger. If a child can't communicate verbally, they
often resort to doing it physically. This is perfectly normal and
expected - after all what other choice does he have?

Although it isn't explicitly stated, it sounds as though you think the
other mother does not restrain her son enough, and I would be wary of
that attitude on your part. It isn't going to help the situation.

IMHO the way to approach this is to ask the other mom how she thinks
you should instruct your son to behave to avoid these confrontations.
I know you think that your son is not at fault, but that's immaterial.
The only way (again IMHO) to approach another mom without coming off
as officious and judgmental is to ask her for help with YOUR problem.

grandma Rosalie

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:00:08 GMT, "hobbes"
wrote:

Any ideas on how to curb/distract the aggressiveness
of this other child, without offending his mother? My
thinking is that I need to think of activities that will keep
both boys occupied, without making them want what
the other has.

Harder inside than outside, but actually play turn taking
games that involve both of these boys or even the third
boy with them.

Try ball rolling or a bozo buckets type of game where
you supervise well so that everyone has a turn. You
can play this at home with your son so *he* at least
has the idea and you can suggest that the other mom's
do this at home too. Children *learn* to share first by
taking turns.

If you are outside in the park, taking turns on the swing
by counting down to 20 helps get this idea across too.

Make ramps with blocks and let the boys roll the cars
down the ramps. You can make more than one ramp
and have more than one car, or you can supervise turns
with a single ramp.

Make block towers for them to knock over. Again you
can make more than one tower at a time and have each
boy knock over his own, or you can make one and
supervise turn taking.

Children at this age are more into parallel play than
cooperative play, so have several of the same toy so
they can play near each other with them.

Try a sensory table if you want to invest in something
You can put rice, uncooked pasta, sand, water, seeds,
cut up paper, straws, scraps of material, etc. in it and
3 to 4 children can play in that. If you don't want to
invest in one for your home, you can use a large dish
pan on a low table or on the floor. Messy, but fun for
all the kids. Put a large sheet of plastic under it or a
big towel and it will be easier to clean the mess. Add
scoops, spoons and containers to the table with things
that can be poured and scooped. Add things like small
boats or dump trucks to water or sand. Be creative.

Good luck.





--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:01:28 GMT, (Robyn
Kozierok) wrote:

In article , hobbes wrote:
We're in a playgroup with 4 other moms--if everyone shows up, we've got 5
moms and 11 kids. My son, at just-turned-3 is the oldest; there are 3 other
2-2.5 year old boys and the rest are under the age of 1.

OK, I know this isn't what you asked about, but I'm awestruck by these
numbers. If I am reading correctly, the 5 moms in this group have between
them 7 infants under a year! Wow.

Actually, I would suggest that the three older ones get together and
the rest do there own thing. One mom can easily supervise 3 2 to 3
year olds and the other moms would have a *break* instead of having
to be on top of their own kids. Of course that assumes that their
would then only be *one* younger child at the group with the mom
who is supervising.

--Robyn


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:13:41 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

In article ,
toto wrote:

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:01:28 GMT, (Robyn
Kozierok) wrote:

In article , hobbes
wrote:
We're in a playgroup with 4 other moms--if everyone shows up, we've got 5
moms and 11 kids. My son, at just-turned-3 is the oldest; there are 3 other
2-2.5 year old boys and the rest are under the age of 1.

OK, I know this isn't what you asked about, but I'm awestruck by these
numbers. If I am reading correctly, the 5 moms in this group have between
them 7 infants under a year! Wow.

Actually, I would suggest that the three older ones get together and
the rest do there own thing. One mom can easily supervise 3 2 to 3
year olds and the other moms would have a *break* instead of having
to be on top of their own kids. Of course that assumes that their
would then only be *one* younger child at the group with the mom
who is supervising.


It also assumes that the primary purpose of the "play group" is for the
kids to get together. It was my experience when my kids were small that
most of these groups had, as their primary purpose, getting mom and the
kids out of the house, and giving mom a chance to spend some time with
other grownups.

When I was a kid, neighbors and relatives would drop in for coffee a
couple of times a week during the day, or we would go somewhere else.
We didn't call it a "play group" -- but it pretty much amounted to the
same thing. By the time my kids were small, we didn't live in a town
where I knew people, and I had to work harder at finding ways to meet
people, and this is one of the things we did.

I guess I just never called that a playgroup. The two ideas are
entirely different for me.

We did both gathering for coffee with adults with their children, but
I do think that 5 adults and 11 kids is a bit excessive in that case.
I would have been more likely to have one or two other adults and
perhaps 4 or 5 children at the most in that situation unless it was a
special occasion with relatives or a backyard barbecue or something
like that.

Playgroups were for mom to get off on her own when it wasn't her
turn to supervise and for the kids to have fun playing together with
one or two parents supervising. We had 4 parents who did this
with my son - at first two parents stayed and the other two had the
day off every other week, then as the kids were used to the parents,
one parent stayed (the one whose home it was at that week) and
the other parents had a 3 days off every month. We did this for my
younger one as well and it worked wonders for the socialization of
my kids. They learned a lot this way.

meh


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits