'Terrible acts': Rima Laibow, MD - hypocrite - babies be damned -

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote
yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%"
and some further stuff about *Williams Obstetrics* (McGraw-
Hill; which edition, I wonder?).

The first question - Jeez, I know I'm gonna catch it for this,
but I just *gotta* ask - is just what the hell do you mean
by this repeated goddam expression "closing birth canals the
'extra' up to 30%," anyway? On those few occasions when
I had to sit there and get amniotic fluid all over my shoes in
the course of a normal spontaneous (or pitocin induced)
vaginal delivery, the fetal presenting part slid down the curve
of Carus like a goddam battering ram, shoving past the non-
generative contents of the pelvis with a "get-the-hell-outta-my-
way" impact that Carol Burnett once characterized as being
"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

If that canal was anything *but* open, how the hell did I
manage to get my Size-8½-gloved hand into the uterus on
certain rare and scrotum-tightening occasions to seek out
and gently remove retained placental cotyledons that were
responsible for excessive third stage bleeding?

Are you referring to all the c-sections that the OB guys perform
so promiscuously, or are you talking about episiotomy repair?
And what the hell is with this perpetual "extra" in quotation
marks? If there's any sense in this expression, it's sailing *way*
the hellangone past anything I ever read or heard in school or in
practice over the course of a fun-filled and occasionally terrifying
life in the ranks of Them Wot Got Betadyne Stains on Their
Sweatsocks.

I know all about how the politically connected medicos have
done every damned thing they can to restrict patient access
to health care providers who charge lower fees for their services
than licensed physicians do, including nurse practitioners, physi-
cian assistants, and nurse midwives. It's the same with lawyers
and their hatred for paralegals providing "boilerplate" legal
services. Every form of professional licensure throughout the
history of civilization has been designed to allow established
practitioners to get a chokehold on market entry and either
create or preserve an oligopoly. That's what licensing is *for*,
government maundering about "quality of care" be damned.

No less an authority than Nobel laureate Milton Friedman stated:

"There is no occupation so remote that an attempt has not been
made to restrict its practice by licensure...The justification offered
is always the same: to protect the consumer. However, the reason
is demonstrated by observing who lobbies at the state legislature
for the imposition or strengthening of licensure. The lobbyists are
invariably representatives of the occupation in question rather than
of the customers. True enough, plumbers presumably know better
than anyone else what their consumers need to be protected
against. However, it is hard to regard altruistic concern for their
customers as the primary motive behind their determined efforts
to get legal power to decide who may be a plumber."

Not that I agree much with the socialist sucking-up of George
Bernard Shaw, but - like the proverbial stopped clock being
right at least twice a day - he could occasionally catch the facts
of a matter and fix them upon the printed page. In his preface
to *The Doctor's Dilemma*, he wrote: "The effect...is to make
the medical profession a conspiracy to hide its own shortcomings.
No doubt the same may be said of all professions. They are all
conspiracies against the laity."

Politics aside, what is it that's getting your freak on about
obstetricians...OBVIOUSLY ILLEGALLY severing
umbilical cords by clamping/cutting immediately,
f'chrissake? And (yet again) what d'you mean by
...closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30%
so repeatedly that you seem to have a keyboard macro
configured to do the job for you? Is there some kind of
federal statute (reflected in some Title of the U.S. Code
of Federal Regulations) by which the criminality of closing
an umbilical clamp at a particular moment has been estab-
lished?

As for....
Chiropractors used to be trained to deliver babies - above
and beyond the didactic obstetrics course which most chiro
students still take.

Chiropractors trained and licensed in Oregon are trained and
licensed to deliver babies; though I don't think any of them do.

I should sure as hell think so. Ever think that maybe the
plaintiff's bar has something to do about that? I knew a
GP down in Cumberland County (probably retired by now)
who used to do so many deliveries that he met with the
obstetrics section of the Department of Surgery instead
of with the rest of us in the Department of Medicine. The
joke was that the only way for a patient to get into his practice
was to be born in it. I don't want to think what the annual
professional liability insurance premiums must be like for any
primary care "provider" who might be insane enough to seek
and secure obstetrical privileges at any hospital in any state
in the present union. The lawyers would be on the poor
******* like barracudas on a boatload of refugees.

I recently talked to an old EMT who used to pray for
maternity transports.

Ah, yes. That's symptomatic of something the EMT-P guys
call the "Jolly Volly Syndrome." We've got a bit of that in
the volunteer ambulance corps hitherabouts. "Good Sam-
aritan" laws provide something of a shield, but from what I've
been told the local corps are *very* particular about docu-
menting in each case that they have done bloody *everything*
necessary to get Mom to the nearest Emergency Department
rather than break out the L&D kit in the back of the truck.

And you say that...
He was astonished to learn that he had been closing birth
canals the "extra" up to 30%.
....eh? Well, jeez, I'll betcha he was astounded to learn that
anybody could keep spouting that phrase without specifying
just what the hell it means, too.

And you're not familiar with Mencken's "Chiropractic" essay?
The damned thing has been continuously in print (in Mencken's
first *Chrestomathy*) since before the man died in 1956. Just
how the hell deep was the hole in which you were raised that
you could not know about Mencken, or never have read that
essay before? You're a *chiropractor* and this little bit of prose
is new to you? Yeesh!

---------------
Government is the great fiction through which everybody
endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "Government" (1848)
http://bastiat.org/en/government.html

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:47:35 GMT, Todd Gastaldo
wrote:
[i]
"GO OBSTETRICIANS!"

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics:

"mmediate cord clamping aggressively...is unethical and should be
discouraged...."
PEDIATRICS Vol. 104 No. 1 July 1999, pp. 116-118

Liar! Todd is a liar!

(Hint: Whenever you see a Usenet kook using ellipses, go read the full
quotation. Liar frauds like Gastaldo like to clip important text to
serve their own needs.)

Here's what the Work Group on Cord Blood Banking REALLY said:

"There may be a temptation to practice immediate cord clamping
aggressively to increase the volume of cord blood that can be
harvested for cord blood banking. This practice is unethical and
should be discouraged."

And:

"[T]he cord blood stem cell collection program should not alter
routine practice for the timing of umbilical cord clamping."

So tell me: Just what IS "routine practice"?

PF

PF Riley wrote:
[i]
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:47:35 GMT, Todd Gastaldo
wrote:

"GO OBSTETRICIANS!"

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics:

"mmediate cord clamping aggressively...is unethical and should be
discouraged...."
PEDIATRICS Vol. 104 No. 1 July 1999, pp. 116-118

Liar! Todd is a liar!

(Hint: Whenever you see a Usenet kook using ellipses, go read the full
quotation. Liar frauds like Gastaldo like to clip important text to
serve their own needs.)

Here's what the Work Group on Cord Blood Banking REALLY said:

"There may be a temptation to practice immediate cord clamping
aggressively to increase the volume of cord blood that can be
harvested for cord blood banking. This practice is unethical and
should be discouraged."

Ah. Gastaldoo was obviously having a Lollipop moment.

Cathy



And:

"[T]he cord blood stem cell collection program should not alter
routine practice for the timing of umbilical cord clamping."

So tell me: Just what IS "routine practice"?

PF

SJ Doc wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote
yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%"
and some further stuff about *Williams Obstetrics* (McGraw-
Hill; which edition, I wonder?).

The first question - Jeez, I know I'm gonna catch it for this,
but I just *gotta* ask - is just what the hell do you mean
by this repeated goddam expression "closing birth canals the
'extra' up to 30%," anyway? On those few occasions when
I had to sit there and get amniotic fluid all over my shoes in
the course of a normal spontaneous (or pitocin induced)
vaginal delivery, the fetal presenting part slid down the curve
of Carus like a goddam battering ram, shoving past the non-
generative contents of the pelvis with a "get-the-hell-outta-my-
way" impact that Carol Burnett once characterized as being
"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's
description of what labor feels like.

Steve

If that canal was anything *but* open, how the hell did I
manage to get my Size-8½-gloved hand into the uterus on
certain rare and scrotum-tightening occasions to seek out
and gently remove retained placental cotyledons that were
responsible for excessive third stage bleeding?

Are you referring to all the c-sections that the OB guys perform
so promiscuously, or are you talking about episiotomy repair?
And what the hell is with this perpetual "extra" in quotation
marks? If there's any sense in this expression, it's sailing *way*
the hellangone past anything I ever read or heard in school or in
practice over the course of a fun-filled and occasionally terrifying
life in the ranks of Them Wot Got Betadyne Stains on Their
Sweatsocks.

I know all about how the politically connected medicos have
done every damned thing they can to restrict patient access
to health care providers who charge lower fees for their services
than licensed physicians do, including nurse practitioners, physi-
cian assistants, and nurse midwives. It's the same with lawyers
and their hatred for paralegals providing "boilerplate" legal
services. Every form of professional licensure throughout the
history of civilization has been designed to allow established
practitioners to get a chokehold on market entry and either
create or preserve an oligopoly. That's what licensing is *for*,
government maundering about "quality of care" be damned.

No less an authority than Nobel laureate Milton Friedman stated:

"There is no occupation so remote that an attempt has not been
made to restrict its practice by licensure...The justification offered
is always the same: to protect the consumer. However, the reason
is demonstrated by observing who lobbies at the state legislature
for the imposition or strengthening of licensure. The lobbyists are
invariably representatives of the occupation in question rather than
of the customers. True enough, plumbers presumably know better
than anyone else what their consumers need to be protected
against. However, it is hard to regard altruistic concern for their
customers as the primary motive behind their determined efforts
to get legal power to decide who may be a plumber."

Not that I agree much with the socialist sucking-up of George
Bernard Shaw, but - like the proverbial stopped clock being
right at least twice a day - he could occasionally catch the facts
of a matter and fix them upon the printed page. In his preface
to *The Doctor's Dilemma*, he wrote: "The effect...is to make
the medical profession a conspiracy to hide its own shortcomings.
No doubt the same may be said of all professions. They are all
conspiracies against the laity."

Politics aside, what is it that's getting your freak on about

obstetricians...OBVIOUSLY ILLEGALLY severing
umbilical cords by clamping/cutting immediately,

f'chrissake? And (yet again) what d'you mean by

...closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30%

so repeatedly that you seem to have a keyboard macro
configured to do the job for you? Is there some kind of
federal statute (reflected in some Title of the U.S. Code
of Federal Regulations) by which the criminality of closing
an umbilical clamp at a particular moment has been estab-
lished?

As for....

Chiropractors used to be trained to deliver babies - above
and beyond the didactic obstetrics course which most chiro
students still take.

Chiropractors trained and licensed in Oregon are trained and
licensed to deliver babies; though I don't think any of them do.


I should sure as hell think so. Ever think that maybe the
plaintiff's bar has something to do about that? I knew a
GP down in Cumberland County (probably retired by now)
who used to do so many deliveries that he met with the
obstetrics section of the Department of Surgery instead
of with the rest of us in the Department of Medicine. The
joke was that the only way for a patient to get into his practice
was to be born in it. I don't want to think what the annual
professional liability insurance premiums must be like for any
primary care "provider" who might be insane enough to seek
and secure obstetrical privileges at any hospital in any state
in the present union. The lawyers would be on the poor
******* like barracudas on a boatload of refugees.


I recently talked to an old EMT who used to pray for
maternity transports.


Ah, yes. That's symptomatic of something the EMT-P guys
call the "Jolly Volly Syndrome." We've got a bit of that in
the volunteer ambulance corps hitherabouts. "Good Sam-
aritan" laws provide something of a shield, but from what I've
been told the local corps are *very* particular about docu-
menting in each case that they have done bloody *everything*
necessary to get Mom to the nearest Emergency Department
rather than break out the L&D kit in the back of the truck.

And you say that...

He was astonished to learn that he had been closing birth
canals the "extra" up to 30%.

...eh? Well, jeez, I'll betcha he was astounded to learn that
anybody could keep spouting that phrase without specifying
just what the hell it means, too.

And you're not familiar with Mencken's "Chiropractic" essay?
The damned thing has been continuously in print (in Mencken's
first *Chrestomathy*) since before the man died in 1956. Just
how the hell deep was the hole in which you were raised that
you could not know about Mencken, or never have read that
essay before? You're a *chiropractor* and this little bit of prose
is new to you? Yeesh!

---------------
Government is the great fiction through which everybody
endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "Government" (1848)
http://bastiat.org/en/government.html


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:8VUWe.973$T55.942@trndny06...

"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's
description of what labor feels like.

If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to the
sensation, only that's over in a minute or two.

O'Hush wrote:
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:8VUWe.973$T55.942@trndny06...

"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's
description of what labor feels like.

If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to the
sensation, only that's over in a minute or two.

My God, you have terrible leg cramps!

Cathy

SJ Doc wrote:

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote
yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%"
and some further stuff about *Williams Obstetrics* (McGraw-
Hill; which edition, I wonder?).

The first question - Jeez, I know I'm gonna catch it for this,
but I just *gotta* ask - is just what the hell do you mean
by this repeated goddam expression "closing birth canals the
'extra' up to 30%," anyway? On those few occasions when
I had to sit there and get amniotic fluid all over my shoes in
the course of a normal spontaneous (or pitocin induced)
vaginal delivery, the fetal presenting part slid down the curve
of Carus like a goddam battering ram, shoving past the non-
generative contents of the pelvis with a "get-the-hell-outta-my-
way" impact that Carol Burnett once characterized as being
"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

If that canal was anything *but* open, how the hell did I
manage to get my Size-8=BD-gloved hand into the uterus on
certain rare and scrotum-tightening occasions to seek out
and gently remove retained placental cotyledons that were
responsible for excessive third stage bleeding?

Are you referring to all the c-sections that the OB guys perform
so promiscuously, or are you talking about episiotomy repair?
And what the hell is with this perpetual "extra" in quotation
marks? If there's any sense in this expression, it's sailing *way*
the hellangone past anything I ever read or heard in school or in
practice over the course of a fun-filled and occasionally terrifying
life in the ranks of Them Wot Got Betadyne Stains on Their
Sweatsocks.

I know all about how the politically connected medicos have
done every damned thing they can to restrict patient access
to health care providers who charge lower fees for their services
than licensed physicians do, including nurse practitioners, physi-
cian assistants, and nurse midwives. It's the same with lawyers
and their hatred for paralegals providing "boilerplate" legal
services. Every form of professional licensure throughout the
history of civilization has been designed to allow established
practitioners to get a chokehold on market entry and either
create or preserve an oligopoly. That's what licensing is *for*,
government maundering about "quality of care" be damned.

Whilst I had midwife care for my four deliveries, and I understand that
this is perfectly safe for a normal pregnancy and delivery, I have to
agree with the Australian doctors who (for perhaps selfish as well as
good reasons) are objecting to midwifery-alone centres being set up
here. The midwives are furious (naturally), but frankly, no birth is
risk-free. If something goes wrong, I want to be in reach of a neonatal
specialist unit. And I was. The midwife pelted up the corridor with my
son to the unit where they proceeded to save his life. Maybe he would
have been ok after an ambulance journey...but maybe not.

Cathy


No less an authority than Nobel laureate Milton Friedman stated:

"There is no occupation so remote that an attempt has not been
made to restrict its practice by licensure...The justification offered
is always the same: to protect the consumer. However, the reason
is demonstrated by observing who lobbies at the state legislature
for the imposition or strengthening of licensure. The lobbyists are
invariably representatives of the occupation in question rather than
of the customers. True enough, plumbers presumably know better
than anyone else what their consumers need to be protected
against. However, it is hard to regard altruistic concern for their
customers as the primary motive behind their determined efforts
to get legal power to decide who may be a plumber."

Not that I agree much with the socialist sucking-up of George
Bernard Shaw, but - like the proverbial stopped clock being
right at least twice a day - he could occasionally catch the facts
of a matter and fix them upon the printed page. In his preface
to *The Doctor's Dilemma*, he wrote: "The effect...is to make
the medical profession a conspiracy to hide its own shortcomings.
No doubt the same may be said of all professions. They are all
conspiracies against the laity."

Politics aside, what is it that's getting your freak on about
obstetricians...OBVIOUSLY ILLEGALLY severing
umbilical cords by clamping/cutting immediately,
f'chrissake? And (yet again) what d'you mean by
...closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30%
so repeatedly that you seem to have a keyboard macro
configured to do the job for you? Is there some kind of
federal statute (reflected in some Title of the U.S. Code
of Federal Regulations) by which the criminality of closing
an umbilical clamp at a particular moment has been estab-
lished?

As for....
Chiropractors used to be trained to deliver babies - above
and beyond the didactic obstetrics course which most chiro
students still take.

Chiropractors trained and licensed in Oregon are trained and
licensed to deliver babies; though I don't think any of them do.

I should sure as hell think so. Ever think that maybe the
plaintiff's bar has something to do about that? I knew a
GP down in Cumberland County (probably retired by now)
who used to do so many deliveries that he met with the
obstetrics section of the Department of Surgery instead
of with the rest of us in the Department of Medicine. The
joke was that the only way for a patient to get into his practice
was to be born in it. I don't want to think what the annual
professional liability insurance premiums must be like for any
primary care "provider" who might be insane enough to seek
and secure obstetrical privileges at any hospital in any state
in the present union. The lawyers would be on the poor
******* like barracudas on a boatload of refugees.

I recently talked to an old EMT who used to pray for
maternity transports.

Ah, yes. That's symptomatic of something the EMT-P guys
call the "Jolly Volly Syndrome." We've got a bit of that in
the volunteer ambulance corps hitherabouts. "Good Sam-
aritan" laws provide something of a shield, but from what I've
been told the local corps are *very* particular about docu-
menting in each case that they have done bloody *everything*
necessary to get Mom to the nearest Emergency Department
rather than break out the L&D kit in the back of the truck.

And you say that...
He was astonished to learn that he had been closing birth
canals the "extra" up to 30%.
...eh? Well, jeez, I'll betcha he was astounded to learn that
anybody could keep spouting that phrase without specifying
just what the hell it means, too.

And you're not familiar with Mencken's "Chiropractic" essay?
The damned thing has been continuously in print (in Mencken's
first *Chrestomathy*) since before the man died in 1956. Just
how the hell deep was the hole in which you were raised that
you could not know about Mencken, or never have read that
essay before? You're a *chiropractor* and this little bit of prose
is new to you? Yeesh!

---------------
Government is the great fiction through which everybody
endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "Government" (1848)
http://bastiat.org/en/government.html

cathyb wrote:

O'Hush wrote:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:8VUWe.973$T55.942@trndny06...


"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's
description of what labor feels like.

If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to the
sensation, only that's over in a minute or two.


My God, you have terrible leg cramps!

Cathy


I had the same thought.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"cathyb" wrote in message
oups.com...

O'Hush wrote:
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:8VUWe.973$T55.942@trndny06...

"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his
wife's
description of what labor feels like.

If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to
the
sensation, only that's over in a minute or two.

My God, you have terrible leg cramps!

Yes, they suck. I had them when I was pregnant, and I've seen DH wake up
with one, and he looked to be in exquisite pain, pouring sweat by the time
it was over. If you'd like to have the experience yourself, avoid foods
containing potassium, get plenty of weight-bearing exercise,and get
dehydrated.

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:ELVWe.1689$LV5.1037@trndny02...
cathyb wrote:

O'Hush wrote:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
news:8VUWe.973$T55.942@trndny06...


"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head."

Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's
description of what labor feels like.

If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to
the
sensation, only that's over in a minute or two.


My God, you have terrible leg cramps!

Cathy


I had the same thought.

(I had an unmedicated delivery with a midwife as well.) IMO the uterine
contractions are a lot more painful than the perineal stretch, because for
me anyway, there was so much pressure on the perineum that I had no
sensation there, and I didn't even feel the episiotomy. I just meant it's a
similar feeling, if you generalize the nocturnal leg cramp sensation to your
whole pelvis and abdomen.

Patti