Opinions please, re NIP (long)

"CY" wrote in message
news:PaZlg.39370$No1.33676@attbi_s71...
Hmm, I don't recall seeing that sign, but that doesn't mean there isn't
one. I'll have to take a closer look next time I am there, whippin' 'em
out, lol!

"Hey, Lady! NO FOOD IN THE POOL!"

*giggling*

Jess

wrote:
cjra wrote:

er, my experience in many (though not all) countries outside the US
would suggest this is not the *world's* problem, but predominantly a
prudish American (and perhaps British) problem.

Exactly. My sister who just got back from, among other places,
Ecuador, says people whip it out for three year olds there all the
time, and no one skips a beat.

Cultures vary so broadly just across the US! It would never have
occured to me that people wouldn't take drinks out by the pool; our
government is constantly running public service ads *reminding* people
to take drinks with them when they're swimming to avoid dehydration...


True. Here in my town, I have never had much hesitation about nursing
in public simply because I know that not only is the law on my side,
but the vast majority of people in the community have their heads on
straight about it. BF is common here. Extended BF is common here. The
only person who's ever *ever* asked me to move was an administrator at
an old folks' home. Even there, she offered me, of all places, a dining
room for the purpose. Which is just about acceptable, except that when
I'm juggling a baby, a dog and a senile old lady, I'm not about to drag
them somewhere so I can nurse the baby. I nurse practically everywhere
I go, I don't even think about it, and most people if they notice,
don't say anything or say something positive.

But I've seen a lot of the "don't flaunt it" stuff said online, and
*that* is just old.

Jenrose

Chookie wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

(And the one place I considered an exception is no longer an exception.
If they want me to not nurse there, we'll take our 4 grand per month
and move my MIL to another facility,

What, you can't BF ina nursing home, where half the old dears are too out of
it to notice anyway, and the other half don't have their glasses on? That's
nuts!

Oh I can, and do... the person who objected was fired a long time ago,
if I'm guessing right, and my second guess got too senile and forgot
what they were for.

(it's a memory care facility. In fact, the ladies tend to love it when
I come in and respond positively if I nurse the baby.)

Jenrose

"Carlye" wrote in message
oups.com...
CY wrote:

Anyway, here is the new bill that passed recently for our state (lot of
legal jargon)

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/legtext...ls/hb2376p.pdf

And a link to Amy Miliron's website (who is responsible for getting this
bill
passed)http://www.healthyfoodhealthychildre...ion/index.html

Do you think I should write to him and include this bill? Or write over
his
head? Or not write at all?


Although I would've been ****ed off, too, from a legal standpoint, I
don't know that you've got much to stand on, unfortunately.

The only statute on the books in Arizona dealing with BFing is the one
you gave a link to, and all it does is protect you from criminal
prosecution for indecent exposure. Although after a quick look, I
didn't find a U.S. Supreme Court or 9th Circuit (Arizona's federal
circuit) case addressing it directly, most federal cases have
interpreted those laws to still protect business owner's rights to ask
you to cover up or leave.

For instance, one federal case supported a Wal-mart (which is, in the
eyes of the law, probably more "public" than your YMCA, because no
membership fee is required to go in there -- ANYONE can go into
Wal-Mart) in asking a nursing mom to cover up or nurse in the restroom.
The case explicitly said it was -not- sex discrimination.

I think writing a letter or complaining is still entirely appropriate.
BUT, I don't think you're getting much help from the law. Sorry. :-(

I don't think CY will find that the lack of specific legislation effectively
limits her rights. Here in New Zealand, there is -no- specific legislation
protecting breastfeeding - but, nowhere in the world is breastfeeding in
public -illegal- and what happens here is that it comes under the umbrella
of our human rights legislation as sex discrimination. It isn't a perfect
process by any stretch of the imagination - I've been through it - but
basically you can't be asked to move from somewhere you have a legal right
to be while breastfeeding because this is considered discrimination on the
basis of being female, and you can lodge a complaint with the Commission.
Privately owned premises open to the public would fall under the
Commission's jurisdiction, as do workplaces. Simply put, breastfeeding
discrimination -is not legal-. Various laws around the world are in place to
clarify this.
I would be very surprised if the situation in the US is much different; it
would probably be covered under your Bill of Rights.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

cjra wrote:
wrote:


(And the one place I considered an exception is no longer an exception.
If they want me to not nurse there, we'll take our 4 grand per month
and move my MIL to another facility, I'm *tired* of the world's
priggish sense of false modesty about breastfeeding.

er, my experience in many (though not all) countries outside the US
would suggest this is not the *world's* problem, but predominantly a
prudish American (and perhaps British) problem.

I get the feeling the Uk as a whole is quite split about the issue.
Apart from the two mums who were unable to bf because of health issues
with their newborns, all the women in my new mums group bf'd. And I got
the sense that they wouldn't have much of a problem doing it in public.
But then the Extreme Breastfeeding programme had a few street
interviews where both men and women objected to it. From those two
examples it would be very easy to say that it was a class issue (the
mums at my group mostly middle class, the interviewees all working
class). It would be interesting to read any studies on this to find out
the reasons for it.

A quick story - shopping in the middle of town yesterday, two couples
with babies sitting outside Eat (trendy sandwich shop) at the tables in
the street. One woman was breastfeeding her baby and as I walked in to
the shop, said quite clearly, 'it's all about the latch aparently'. I
really wanted to go up to her and say 'well done', although she didn't
look like she needed the encouragement. What have you lot done to me!


Jeni

Mum of Two wrote:
I don't think CY will find that the lack of specific legislation effectively
limits her rights.

I would be very surprised if the situation in the US is much different; it
would probably be covered under your Bill of Rights.


Well, interpreting statutes and cases is what I do for a living. And
although I only did a quick scan of what's out there, I'm afraid it is
different; she is protected from being prosecuted for indecent
exposure, but in much of the U.S. (like I said, I didn't find a case in
her circuit specifically) federal courts have upheld businesses' rights
to ask you to leave or cover up for breastfeeding. It is -not- deemed
sex discrimination. Our Bill of Rights is not very effective on
private property, to a large extent.

I still think a place like the Y should be better about this; I just
don't think they have to be, unfortunately.


-Carlye
DS 6-2-06
DD 9-29-04

Sue writes:
: wrote in message
: If you don't want to see boobs or hear about breastfeeding, WHY exactly
: are you here?

: Because the OP was cross-posted.
: --
: Sue (mom to three girls)

Crossposted where? I don't see any newsgroups in the header except
misc.kids.breastfeeding.

Larry

"cjra" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:


(And the one place I considered an exception is no longer an exception.
If they want me to not nurse there, we'll take our 4 grand per month
and move my MIL to another facility, I'm *tired* of the world's
priggish sense of false modesty about breastfeeding.

er, my experience in many (though not all) countries outside the US
would suggest this is not the *world's* problem, but predominantly a
prudish American (and perhaps British) problem.

I think it would be seen as a "problem" in Australia but for the law and for
the fact that the ABA give very good support.

I have never had a negative comment (maybe the odd look on occaision), and
this week I had a lady come up and tell me how great it was to seen an
"older" child being breastfed (DS is only 22mo
Amanda

wrote:
L. wrote:
FlowerGirl wrote:

Exactly. Its most amusing that such a cantankerous twit would choose
"Peacemail" as an addy (munged or otherwise).

Oh yes. I am "cantankerous" because I don't want to see your boobs.
Whatever.
-L.

If you don't want to see boobs or hear about breastfeeding, WHY exactly
are you here?

Because it's an open, unmoderated forum. Any other questions, Queen
Boobsie? I wouldn't have responded at all except 43 posts went by and
no one stated the obvious solution - be more discreet. You all get all
up in arms and indignant when anyone *dares* suggest you have a modicum
of modesty, when the fact is, if you were more modest to begin with,
there would never have been an issue in the first place. It's not
rocketscience, girls.

-L.

wrote:
L. wrote:
Cheri Stryker wrote:

Whaddya think, all - should I make another T-shirt that says "Do not
fear the boob." ?

It has nothing to do with fear. Nobody wants to see your boobs. Get
it through your thick heads. I have no care whatsoever if you NIP.
Just keep your boobs covered.

-L.

If people dont' want to see me nurse my baby, they can look away. It is
not possible, when nursing a 15 month old, to keep the breast covered.
I cover it, she uncovers it. I hold her hand down so she can't, and the
covering falls because I'm not holding it. Then she gets mad, and pulls
off, and now not only is the whole thing hanging out, but she's making
noise so people are looking.

Well then, the answer is simple - nurse her in a private location.


Trust me, if you dont' want to see it, don't look, but I'm just *over*
the idea that it matters one whit whether someone sees my nasty nipple
or not. My baby needs to eat. My nipples are what provide her main
source of calories. Ergo, when she is hungry, I will feed her. Period.

Then don't get your panties in a wad when someone tells you to cover
your tits. If you insist on exposing yourself in public, people are
going to complain. Deal with it.

-L.