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abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 06, 09:25 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............

  #2  
Old June 2nd 06, 05:45 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

xkatx wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............


Although I'm not going to debate statistics or argue about anything (I know
for a fact how our system in this part of Canada works, and although I don't
know how ABC's info adds up to how we are over here - but I am assuming
numbers are not far off) You have to think of what's the lesser evil.
The costs are so high. It's tiresome to a point, but in order to just up
and dispose of any foster system, you need to no longer have a need for it.
Is the money worth it for the statistics to be basically horrible as far as
everything goes, or is it better to allow children to be in crisis
situations? Every foster home and foster parent or family has guidelines,
and they're fairly strict as far as every day life goes for the homes. How
would numbers sit if there were no alternatives (such as foster care)?
Would abandon rates go up? Would welfare numbers go up? Would there be
even more cases of abuse, neglect, would the situations be better or worse
if you assume society is the same minus foster care?
No, I don't know those answers, but it is something to ponder.
A good boarding school may offer a child less harm, a better education, more
support, but when the home situation is generally not good, and without
foster care to help a percentage, how would the statistics stand for
homelessness, prison numbers, welfare rates, etc...
If you think of it according to numbers, only 48% don't suffer pts, 70% will
wind up with some sort of roof over their head, 75% stay out of jail.
Also, I'm not at all agreeing to the comment about children growing up in
foster care can become mothers with children in foster care. There *is* a
dad for every child as well.
Anyways, is there really a better answer, alternative, way to go about the
obvious problems that are clear?


Sure, sweep the problems under the rug, stop keeping any records on
incest, beating deaths, starvation, deliberate injuries, drug effects,
and those other things that CPS takes children for no good reason 0:-
and pretend it's gone.

Soon the data on children will reflect only what the sick souls you
answer in reply to want them to reflect.

However, those children that survive will continue to flood, as adults,
the mental health facilities, the prisons, and the graveyards...if they
make it that far before they become adults.

The illicit drug industry will continue to grow as those children no
longer served by and protected by society self medicate into adulthood.

The gangs will be overflowing with recruits, and illegal gun purveyors
will fatten with the increased income.

Hospital trauma centers will be overbooked 24/7 with lines out into the
streets.

We will have a lot of organ donors though, but sadly, many will have to
be rejected because of drug and disease related injury and deterioration
to organs.

Meth will meet it's great potential and nearly replace most other drugs.
Children will be made whores at an earlier age as they wise up to the
truth around them, that society doesn't care what their parents do to
them hence they have no worth other than what they have to sell.

Sound weird.

Well, ALL THIS IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. We ARE ignoring this problem, and
it's being systematically lied about by those that DO want to do to
their children just what they wish, no matter how damaging and cruel.

They look like normal people, they can even talk like normal people, but
in fact they are NOT normal people...yet they think they are.

And they help each other by joining in special interest groups to lie
about the problem as they number one strategic goal.

You have met some here.

Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
  #3  
Old June 2nd 06, 06:34 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

wrote:
abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............


You miss the point. In fact that IS about what is happening.
Unfortunately THIS "boarding school" is about one, keeping the child
safe from the abuses done to them by their parents and family...in 95%
of the cases.

This "boarding school" must include therapy for the mental confusion and
suffering, rehabilitation for the developmental injuries, often medical
rehab for physical injures.

The truth is it costs a family, on average from birth to age 18 ...

"According to a study by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, a family
with a child born in 2000 can expect to spend about $165,630 ($233,530
when factoring in inflation) for food, shelter and other necessities to
raise that child over the next 17 years. "

That would pencil out, presuming they haven't abused their child into
special needs category, as the vast majority of CPS foster placed
children are, to $13,737.05 per year.

Other sources estimates run as high as $13,900 per year.

Do YOU know any foster parent getting 13k per annum foster subsidy per
child?

Do mental health and rehabilitative services come free?

Should the workers and staff of CPS work for free, on overloaded case loads?

What does it cost to support the legal services to the child?

$26,263 is what's left from that $40,000. For all these other supports
and services.

INCLUDING THE FOSTER SUBSIDY itself.

That averages about $5,400 per year (around $450 mo).

Now we are down to $20,600 for the remainder of costs.

A single session of therapy runs about $100 and are usually once or
twice a week. It is not uncommon for a child to have multiple
complaints, physical and mental, to be healed.

Many are behind in school when they enter state custody. Some
developmentally delayed. Some are so emotionally disturbed that they
cannot even reside in a regular foster family but must be placed with a
specially trained and higher paid "therapeutic foster family."

Some, sadly, can't even manage there and have to go to a more secure
and regulated setting where even line staff are trained therapists, and
in addition, trained in dealing with dangerous clients.

I worked in such a place.

The children that came there from their bio families had a lot of
interesting issues. Old untreated broken bones. Eye's eskew from from
head injuries, and of course also untreated. Drug effects. Developmental
disorders and disfunctions (meaning some were treatable and some not).

And these was NOT the end of it. Some children were so bad off they
could not even reside in a treatment facility, but had to be sent to a
locked psychiatric hospital ward.

Only a few, but there they were. Too sick and dangerous to live
anywhere, but locked up.

And those that work in the mental health child rehab and treatment field
are notoriously underpaid. Those are the ones that do the day to day
living with the children as surrogate temporary parents.

$40,000 IS A BARGAIN, stupid.

What proof do I have that you are observer?

Easy. Your lack of information, your lack of intelligence, your
propensity to lie continuously, and finally your unerring ability to
make a complete fool of yourself.

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
  #4  
Old June 3rd 06, 04:22 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

the point of the post wasn't the statistics............they can be
debated endlessly by the simpleminded.............likewise, the notion
that some bureaucratic glassware should be viewed as half full or half
empty is equally irrelevant..............the newsworthiness is that a
mainstream american television network devoted an hour-long segment of
prime time programming and web site space to questioning the once
sacrosanct system of foster care............as they might say at abc
news, "that's the real story behind the story".............

xkatx wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............


Although I'm not going to debate statistics or argue about anything (I know
for a fact how our system in this part of Canada works, and although I don't
know how ABC's info adds up to how we are over here - but I am assuming
numbers are not far off) You have to think of what's the lesser evil.
The costs are so high. It's tiresome to a point, but in order to just up
and dispose of any foster system, you need to no longer have a need for it.
Is the money worth it for the statistics to be basically horrible as far as
everything goes, or is it better to allow children to be in crisis
situations? Every foster home and foster parent or family has guidelines,
and they're fairly strict as far as every day life goes for the homes. How
would numbers sit if there were no alternatives (such as foster care)?
Would abandon rates go up? Would welfare numbers go up? Would there be
even more cases of abuse, neglect, would the situations be better or worse
if you assume society is the same minus foster care?
No, I don't know those answers, but it is something to ponder.
A good boarding school may offer a child less harm, a better education, more
support, but when the home situation is generally not good, and without
foster care to help a percentage, how would the statistics stand for
homelessness, prison numbers, welfare rates, etc...
If you think of it according to numbers, only 48% don't suffer pts, 70% will
wind up with some sort of roof over their head, 75% stay out of jail.
Also, I'm not at all agreeing to the comment about children growing up in
foster care can become mothers with children in foster care. There *is* a
dad for every child as well.
Anyways, is there really a better answer, alternative, way to go about the
obvious problems that are clear?


  #5  
Old June 3rd 06, 04:33 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

noooooooooooo, you missed the point, asshole.....................when
you've lost the mainstream media, your little pet overpriced make-work
bureaucracy is screwed...................

]:^ runs around her dog lot barking you don't
understand...............you don't understand...............you don't
understand...............you don't understand...............you don't
understand...............you don't understand...............you don't
understand...............you don't understand...............

  #6  
Old June 4th 06, 12:51 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

wrote in message
oups.com...
abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus


Hi, maggie,

Former and present foster children represent the most endangered population
in this country.

Child welfare experts contend that the only way to reduce the abuse in
foster care and the very poor outcomes for former foster children is to have
less foster care. And reform movements are underway in many states and, on
the federal level, to place less children into state custody and release
foster children to their families earlier.

Currently, the vast majority of children removed from their families were
not abused. 69,000 of children placed in foster care in 2003 were removed
from families CPS workers themselves unsubstantiated for risk of or actual
neglect/abuse. These non-victims represent 30% of the foster care
population. The majority of those who were substantiated were found to be
at risk of neglect or neglected. Of those children substantiated as victims
of abuse, the majority were substantiated because they were "at risk" of
abuse, not actually abused.

.............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............


The most vocal of foster care critics are professionals who are directly
involved with it. Dr. Horn is one of the players in CPS reform efforts.

.."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care


The total cost of raising the child takes up about $14,000 of that. Foster
children's medical, dental and mental health needs are covered by Medacaid.
The remaining $26,000 goes to principals and workers in the child welfare
industry itself. Administrative costs are many times much higher than 2/3
of the funding going into foster care, although 66% is the general rule.
For each foster child, there is a battery of GALS, social service workers,
state caregivers, case managers, mentors, partridges, pear trees and the
trees in which they roost.

.....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............


.....And pay for their college.

The overcrowded and abusive foster care system described by ABC news became
that way because of what the Pew Commission calls "the perverse funding
incentive" provided state CPS agencies to remove children from their
families. Federal Title IV-E Social Security Funding currently flows to the
states on the basis of how many poor children CPS takes into custody. As
long as the child stays in foster care, the state agencies pull down the
uncapped, on demand Title IV-E funding.

As the result of the Pew Commission report, Congress is currently at work to
remove the strings to Title IV-E funding. The money will become a capped
entitlement to the states, allowing CPS agencies to decide for themselves
how to spend the money. This will cut the foster population by as much as
80% across the country.

The reform legislation, partially because of Dr. Wade's support, will soon
be passed by Congress. This is the reform legislation the Organization of
American Counties and CPS attempted to defeat through a lobbying campaign
about the Meth "epidemic."

Meanwhile, individual states have reduced their foster care poplulation by
applying for and being granted exclusions from Title IV-E funding
restrictions. California, Iowa and other states were just granted Title
IV-E waivers. We can expect the state that harbors close to half of the
nation's foster children to reduce the population of state wards by 50% over
the next three years. Mamouth reductions in foster care populations have
occurred in Illinois, Oregon and other states granted Title IV-E waivers in
the past.

It won't be long, now.



  #7  
Old June 4th 06, 06:22 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

Doug wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus


Hi, maggie,

Former and present foster children represent the most endangered population
in this country.


And they came by it in the majority from their origins, the family they
were born into.

Child welfare experts contend


Some do.

that the only way to reduce the abuse in
foster care and the very poor outcomes for former foster children is to have
less foster care.


And some do not. Some believe that adequately funding the system for
lower caseloads WILL in fact move children through the system more
rapidly to permanency. Better funding will result in not just lower
caseloads...a problem pointed out BY EXPERTS even you have quoted, Doug,
but allow for hiring and training more qualified workers.

And reform movements are underway in many states and, on
the federal level, to place less children into state custody and release
foster children to their families earlier.


Which has NOT proven yet to be the safest course. Parents have been
known, as you know perfectly well, to re-abuse these same children. YOU
quoted, in another argument, figures showing high rates of re-offending.

Currently, the vast majority of children removed from their families were
not abused.


That is only true if you count raw numbers of removals...and ignore
those that are returned in short order.

69,000 of children placed in foster care in 2003 were removed
from families CPS workers themselves unsubstantiated for risk of or actual
neglect/abuse.


When you claim "not abused" you are ignoring the research I posted here
that shows that "not abuse" and "unsubstantiated for abuse or neglect"
are not the same thing, nor the same yardstick.

Substantiation is a service needs driven assessment label, not a legal
definition of abuse.

These non-victims represent 30% of the foster care
population.


"Victim" and "substantiated" are not interchangeable terms, as you
delusional claim. The study I provided you done for the USDHHS shows
clearly that you are not correct, and your insistence on ignoring it is
what earns you the title I give you of liar.

The majority of those who were substantiated were found to be
at risk of neglect or neglected.


Yes? 0:-

Of those children substantiated as victims
of abuse, the majority were substantiated because they were "at risk" of
abuse, not actually abused.


Nonsense babbling again, Doug?

............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............


The most vocal of foster care critics are professionals who are directly
involved with it. Dr. Horn is one of the players in CPS reform efforts.


R R R R, volume does not equate with accuracy or expertise, Doug. Wade
Horn is identified as an anti-women's rights appointee to a political
office.

Wade makes the same mistake I've pointed out to you repeatedly and you
have ignored or minimized.

The concept of upfront services has two major stumbling blocks, closely
related to each other.

Those who NEED the up front services do NOT present themselves for those
services. Criminals, addicts/substance abusers, mentally ill.

And especially those guilty of abusing, or placing their children at
risk. They are NOT your self development conscious population that self
assess as needing help and seeking it.

Which brings me to point to, and something that this administration is
becoming a major concern of the public over: if up front services are to
be delivered they will have to be delivered by heavy intrusive efforts.

These take the disguise of "public services agents" calling up people to
"volunteer" the services, but always with the hint and occasionally the
open threat of action if the "services" are not "volunteered for."

You and others here like you have even argued this very same thing
yourself in the context of the current system.

I suggest you carefully read Wade's statements from last year, for this
very content. Nicely worded, not at all obvious, but to one that has
followed CPS and related agencies, and the paths that legislation has
taken, it is more than clear. It is moving the point of entry of
government, not removing it.

And it will have similar outcomes. Those that cannot or will not present
themselves will be on a list. And the very thing YOU ****ants claim is
being done, that is not, WILL BE A FACT OF LIFE: That CPS will be
charged with HUNTING child abuse, rather than taking incoming calls only.

The agency may not BE CPS, but other agencies will apply for grants,
hire new workers, and out they will go into the field. "Nurses,"
"community service Workers," from fields as diverse as health, and
recreation (Recreation is a favorite place to focus on children and
their parents and signs of abuse when government wants to intrude on
families.)

http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/ola..._testimony.htm
Then read:
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/ola...905_child.html

And you will see the trend.

As for Wade himself, and the politics surrounding him, (and don't EVEN
try your bull**** of attempting to separate the quality and content of
someone's claims from their character and milieu with me, asshole), you
might want to look at the criticisms:

http://www.mediatransparency.org/per...hp?personID=89

The politics are, well, business as usual.

YOU just want the money to move from one place to another.

Do you have a personal interest in this, Doug? A financial one?


."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care


The total cost of raising the child takes up about $14,000 of that. Foster
children's medical, dental and mental health needs are covered by Medacaid.
The remaining $26,000 goes to principals and workers in the child welfare
industry itself.


It isn't an industry. No profits accrue to anyone.

Administrative costs are many times much higher than 2/3
of the funding going into foster care, although 66% is the general rule.
For each foster child, there is a battery of GALS, social service workers,
state caregivers, case managers, mentors, partridges, pear trees and the
trees in which they roost.


You are lying. And YOU have applauded the use of GALS, and social
workers. A case manager is a case worker. Stop your lying.

There are no partridges, other than computer support, clerical support,
utility fees, building rents, transport for children, and often parent
clients, etc., and as far as I know, "no pear trees and the trees in
which they roost."

Trees resting in trees, Doug?

You obviously aren't paying attention to what YOU are writing, and you
most certainly ARE patronizingly playing on your belief in the ignorance
and or stupidity of the readers.

Who, hopefully really AREN'T as stupid as you patronizingly make them
out to be with your nonsense.

Bio families do not have the expenses related to abused children, unless
they abuse and neglect and are responsible enough to pay themselves for
the outcomes.


We can presume the $14,000 per child figure is not for that population.

....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............


....And pay for their college.

The overcrowded and abusive foster care system described by ABC news became
that way because of what the Pew Commission calls "the perverse funding
incentive" provided state CPS agencies to remove children from their
families.


You are ignoring, and thus misleading (called "lying" in some circles)
the rest of what the Pew commission found. And what others have found.

The abuse and neglect has taken on a much more perverse color than in
the past, with far greater injury with more serious outcomes that cost a
great deal more to treat. Number ARE going up, NOT down.

Federal Title IV-E Social Security Funding currently flows to the
states on the basis of how many poor children CPS takes into custody.


A simplistic way of describing something that is more comprehensive than
just the poverty level.

However, the poor neglect and abuse their children at a higher rate than
the non-poor. It's just a simple fact. Nothing complex. They are often
poor for reasons that are not just lack of ability to find a job.

People that don't abuse, and become poor, do not start abusing because
they are poor. People that live lifestyles that include abusive child
rearing and are poor do not stop abusing even if you provide them money.

This has all been tried before and failed.

As
long as the child stays in foster care, the state agencies pull down the
uncapped, on demand Title IV-E funding.


Appeals to emotions with loaded word choice, like 'pull down' leading
one to believe that they are 'making money' by this process.

They are spending money at a faster rate than they are getting it
because of the load on the system.

As for the TRUE reaction to PEW commission report, you need to go beyond
your bull**** propaganda, Doug.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=63622

[[[ Notice they are saying the same thing I am saying. Funding has been
a perpetual problem .. in all areas of child protection, including the
courts. They too have been underfunded, badly. ]]]


home today's news about USN USN services contact USN media
services news sources search

Strengthening Courts, Improving Foster Ca A Progress Report from the
Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care

4/5/2006 2:53:00 PM

To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor

Contact: The Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care, 202-687-0948;
Web: http://www.pewfostercare.org

News Advisory:

-- Strengthening Courts, Improving Foster Ca A Progress Report from
the Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care

-- Thursday, April 6, 10 a.m. to 11:30 a.m., U.S. Capitol Building, Room
H-137, Washington, D.C.

No child enters or leaves foster care without a judge's approval. Given
the critical role of juvenile and family courts in children's lives, the
nonpartisan Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care called for
sweeping court reforms to protect children in foster care and secure
safe, permanent families for them.

The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 includes new provisions to improve the
juvenile and family courts that reflect some of the Pew Commission's
recommendations. These new court improvements will help courts track and
analyze their caseloads to improve outcomes for children in foster care,
allow judges and other court personnel to receive needed training, and
encourage collaboration between courts and child welfare agencies. The
DRA provides $100 million over five years for these court improvements.

These new court provisions add critical momentum to the efforts of
states to improve their child welfare and court systems. At this
briefing, members of the Pew Commission, Congressional leaders, judges,
court leaders and federal officials will explore the potential impact of
these court improvements on children in foster care throughout the
United States. Participants include:

THE HONORABLE BILL FRENZEL, Chairman, Pew Commission on Children in
Foster Care, Guest Scholar, Economic Studies, The Brookings Institution

THE HONORABLE WALLY HERGER (R-CA), Chairman, Subcommittee on Human
Resources of the Committee on Ways and Means

THE HONORABLE WADE HORN, Assistant Secretary for Children and Families,
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

THE HONORABLE JOAN OHL, Commissioner, Administration on Children, Youth
and Families, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

THE HONORABLE LEE F. SATTERFIELD, Associate Judge, Superior Court of the
District of Columbia, Former Presiding Judge, D.C. Family Court

WILLIAM C. VICKREY, Member, Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care,
Administrative Director of the Courts, California Administrative Office
of the Courts

CLARICE DIBBLE WALKER, Member, Pew Commission on Children in Foster
Care, Former Commissioner, D.C. Social Services

http://www.usnewswire.com/

-0-

/© 2006 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/

As the result of the Pew Commission report, Congress is currently at work to
remove the strings to Title IV-E funding. The money will become a capped
entitlement to the states, allowing CPS agencies to decide for themselves
how to spend the money. This will cut the foster population by as much as
80% across the country.


It will defund, which will, of course, dump kids OUT of the foster
system, or close the doors to them when they need protection. The
pendulum will swing again.

The size of the needed workforce will increase to "give" those upfront
services that Wade is so supportive of. More AGENTS of the government
will make attempts at entre' to homes and family.

YOU, and they, are stupid.

The reform legislation, partially because of Dr. Wade's support, will soon
be passed by Congress. This is the reform legislation the Organization of
American Counties and CPS attempted to defeat through a lobbying campaign
about the Meth "epidemic."


Bull****. CPS has little to do with the reporting on meth. The news
services are sending journalist and reporters out to find out for
themselves and they are finding that indeed there IS such an epidemic
and it's have devastating impact on families and children.

You are a propagandist, and it appears you are one for the current
administration on these matters.

Meanwhile, individual states have reduced their foster care poplulation by
applying for and being granted exclusions from Title IV-E funding
restrictions. California, Iowa and other states were just granted Title
IV-E waivers. We can expect the state that harbors close to half of the
nation's foster children to reduce the population of state wards by 50% over
the next three years. Mamouth reductions in foster care populations have
occurred in Illinois, Oregon and other states granted Title IV-E waivers in
the past.

It won't be long, now.


It will be about two to three years before we see the first signs of
this boondoggle.

Watch.

Just as I predicted the upsurge in meth related issues for child
protection and the country I predict that child abuse rates, once we
change administrations, will be correctly reported and they will skyrocket.

Families will not present themselves for "up front services" and we'll
see more and more clever "agencies" with specially trained, expensive,
workers going out to find ways into homes.

Having done so more abuse will be uncovered than ever before...because
our system and society has resisted intrusion into the family...and that
will break down.

That IS the goal of certain factions now influencing legislation, and
they are poised to do those intrusion under color of law.

They are NOT family friendly...just "family model" friendly, and the
objective is to NOT allow for non-biblical model families to exist.

You will see the gates to hell open on this one, Doug. If they carry it
off. 5 years at the outside before the public discovers they have been
conned by you and your kind.

0:-

And for those that care, another opinion on Wade and his politics and
values, which of course boils down to biases:

http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyt...ry.asp?id=5474







--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
  #8  
Old June 4th 06, 07:07 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)


"0:-" wrote in message
news:MJydneVtqeFYix7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
Doug wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
abc's primetime did a june 1 story on "the crisis of the foster care
system"..............among abc's conclusions were 52 percent of foster
children suffered from post-traumatic stress (a rate twice as high as
soldiers returning from war).............thirty percent of the homeless
have been in foster care............ twenty-five percent of those in
prison are foster care alumnus


Hi, maggie,

Former and present foster children represent the most endangered
population in this country.


And they came by it in the majority from their origins, the family they
were born into.

Child welfare experts contend


Some do.

that the only way to reduce the abuse in
foster care and the very poor outcomes for former foster children is to
have less foster care.


And some do not. Some believe that adequately funding the system for lower
caseloads WILL in fact move children through the system more rapidly to
permanency. Better funding will result in not just lower caseloads...a
problem pointed out BY EXPERTS even you have quoted, Doug, but allow for
hiring and training more qualified workers.

And reform movements are underway in many states and, on
the federal level, to place less children into state custody and release
foster children to their families earlier.


Which has NOT proven yet to be the safest course. Parents have been known,
as you know perfectly well, to re-abuse these same children. YOU quoted,
in another argument, figures showing high rates of re-offending.

Currently, the vast majority of children removed from their families were
not abused.


That is only true if you count raw numbers of removals...and ignore those
that are returned in short order.


Doug is quite correct, the majority are not removed for abuse. They are
removed for neglect. And as figures point out, neglect is by far the
greater killer of children.

Figures show that 2.1 kids per thousand were abused, but 7.4 per thousand
were neglected.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/p.../figure3_3.htm

69,000 of children placed in foster care in 2003 were removed
from families CPS workers themselves unsubstantiated for risk of or
actual neglect/abuse.


When you claim "not abused" you are ignoring the research I posted here
that shows that "not abuse" and "unsubstantiated for abuse or neglect" are
not the same thing, nor the same yardstick.

Substantiation is a service needs driven assessment label, not a legal
definition of abuse.


Doug does not care about facts, they get in the way of his agenda.

Ron

These non-victims represent 30% of the foster care population.


"Victim" and "substantiated" are not interchangeable terms, as you
delusional claim. The study I provided you done for the USDHHS shows
clearly that you are not correct, and your insistence on ignoring it is
what earns you the title I give you of liar.

The majority of those who were substantiated were found to be
at risk of neglect or neglected.


Yes? 0:-

Of those children substantiated as victims of abuse, the majority were
substantiated because they were "at risk" of abuse, not actually abused.


Nonsense babbling again, Doug?

............. like welfare, foster care
is intergenerational (children growing up in foster care can become
mothers with children in foster care........... "the highest ranking
federal official in charge of foster care, wade horn of the department
of health and human services, is a former child psychologist who says
the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown
up"............


The most vocal of foster care critics are professionals who are directly
involved with it. Dr. Horn is one of the players in CPS reform efforts.


R R R R, volume does not equate with accuracy or expertise, Doug. Wade
Horn is identified as an anti-women's rights appointee to a political
office.

Wade makes the same mistake I've pointed out to you repeatedly and you
have ignored or minimized.

The concept of upfront services has two major stumbling blocks, closely
related to each other.

Those who NEED the up front services do NOT present themselves for those
services. Criminals, addicts/substance abusers, mentally ill.

And especially those guilty of abusing, or placing their children at risk.
They are NOT your self development conscious population that self assess
as needing help and seeking it.

Which brings me to point to, and something that this administration is
becoming a major concern of the public over: if up front services are to
be delivered they will have to be delivered by heavy intrusive efforts.

These take the disguise of "public services agents" calling up people to
"volunteer" the services, but always with the hint and occasionally the
open threat of action if the "services" are not "volunteered for."

You and others here like you have even argued this very same thing
yourself in the context of the current system.

I suggest you carefully read Wade's statements from last year, for this
very content. Nicely worded, not at all obvious, but to one that has
followed CPS and related agencies, and the paths that legislation has
taken, it is more than clear. It is moving the point of entry of
government, not removing it.

And it will have similar outcomes. Those that cannot or will not present
themselves will be on a list. And the very thing YOU ****ants claim is
being done, that is not, WILL BE A FACT OF LIFE: That CPS will be charged
with HUNTING child abuse, rather than taking incoming calls only.

The agency may not BE CPS, but other agencies will apply for grants, hire
new workers, and out they will go into the field. "Nurses," "community
service Workers," from fields as diverse as health, and recreation
(Recreation is a favorite place to focus on children and their parents and
signs of abuse when government wants to intrude on families.)

http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/ola..._testimony.htm
Then read:
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/ola...905_child.html

And you will see the trend.

As for Wade himself, and the politics surrounding him, (and don't EVEN try
your bull**** of attempting to separate the quality and content of
someone's claims from their character and milieu with me, asshole), you
might want to look at the criticisms:

http://www.mediatransparency.org/per...hp?personID=89

The politics are, well, business as usual.

YOU just want the money to move from one place to another.

Do you have a personal interest in this, Doug? A financial one?


."there are no provisions for treatment, prevention,
family support, or aging out - just for supporting things as they
are"..........that status quo costs taxpayers $22 billion a year and
works out to $40,000 a year to keep a child in foster
care


The total cost of raising the child takes up about $14,000 of that.
Foster children's medical, dental and mental health needs are covered by
Medacaid. The remaining $26,000 goes to principals and workers in the
child welfare industry itself.


It isn't an industry. No profits accrue to anyone.

Administrative costs are many times much higher than 2/3 of the funding
going into foster care, although 66% is the general rule. For each foster
child, there is a battery of GALS, social service workers, state
caregivers, case managers, mentors, partridges, pear trees and the trees
in which they roost.


You are lying. And YOU have applauded the use of GALS, and social workers.
A case manager is a case worker. Stop your lying.

There are no partridges, other than computer support, clerical support,
utility fees, building rents, transport for children, and often parent
clients, etc., and as far as I know, "no pear trees and the trees in which
they roost."

Trees resting in trees, Doug?

You obviously aren't paying attention to what YOU are writing, and you
most certainly ARE patronizingly playing on your belief in the ignorance
and or stupidity of the readers.

Who, hopefully really AREN'T as stupid as you patronizingly make them out
to be with your nonsense.

Bio families do not have the expenses related to abused children, unless
they abuse and neglect and are responsible enough to pay themselves for
the outcomes.


We can presume the $14,000 per child figure is not for that population.

....................beyond abc's findings, the per annum cost per
child in foster care would keep a child in a good boarding
school............


....And pay for their college.

The overcrowded and abusive foster care system described by ABC news
became that way because of what the Pew Commission calls "the perverse
funding incentive" provided state CPS agencies to remove children from
their families.


You are ignoring, and thus misleading (called "lying" in some circles) the
rest of what the Pew commission found. And what others have found.

The abuse and neglect has taken on a much more perverse color than in the
past, with far greater injury with more serious outcomes that cost a great
deal more to treat. Number ARE going up, NOT down.

Federal Title IV-E Social Security Funding currently flows to the states
on the basis of how many poor children CPS takes into custody.


A simplistic way of describing something that is more comprehensive than
just the poverty level.

However, the poor neglect and abuse their children at a higher rate than
the non-poor. It's just a simple fact. Nothing complex. They are often
poor for reasons that are not just lack of ability to find a job.

People that don't abuse, and become poor, do not start abusing because
they are poor. People that live lifestyles that include abusive child
rearing and are poor do not stop abusing even if you provide them money.

This has all been tried before and failed.

As
long as the child stays in foster care, the state agencies pull down the
uncapped, on demand Title IV-E funding.


Appeals to emotions with loaded word choice, like 'pull down' leading one
to believe that they are 'making money' by this process.

They are spending money at a faster rate than they are getting it because
of the load on the system.

As for the TRUE reaction to PEW commission report, you need to go beyond
your bull**** propaganda, Doug.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=63622

[[[ Notice they are saying the same thing I am saying. Funding has been a
perpetual problem .. in all areas of child protection, including the
courts. They too have been underfunded, badly. ]]]


home today's news about USN USN services contact USN media services news
sources search

Strengthening Courts, Improving Foster Ca A Progress Report from the
Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care

4/5/2006 2:53:00 PM

To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor

Contact: The Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care, 202-687-0948; Web:
http://www.pewfostercare.org

News Advisory:

-- Strengthening Courts, Improving Foster Ca A Progress Report from the
Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care

-- Thursday, April 6, 10 a.m. to 11:30 a.m., U.S. Capitol Building, Room
H-137, Washington, D.C.

No child enters or leaves foster care without a judge's approval. Given
the critical role of juvenile and family courts in children's lives, the
nonpartisan Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care called for sweeping
court reforms to protect children in foster care and secure safe,
permanent families for them.

The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 includes new provisions to improve the
juvenile and family courts that reflect some of the Pew Commission's
recommendations. These new court improvements will help courts track and
analyze their caseloads to improve outcomes for children in foster care,
allow judges and other court personnel to receive needed training, and
encourage collaboration between courts and child welfare agencies. The DRA
provides $100 million over five years for these court improvements.

These new court provisions add critical momentum to the efforts of states
to improve their child welfare and court systems. At this briefing,
members of the Pew Commission, Congressional leaders, judges, court
leaders and federal officials will explore the potential impact of these
court improvements on children in foster care throughout the United
States. Participants include:

THE HONORABLE BILL FRENZEL, Chairman, Pew Commission on Children in Foster
Care, Guest Scholar, Economic Studies, The Brookings Institution

THE HONORABLE WALLY HERGER (R-CA), Chairman, Subcommittee on Human
Resources of the Committee on Ways and Means

THE HONORABLE WADE HORN, Assistant Secretary for Children and Families,
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

THE HONORABLE JOAN OHL, Commissioner, Administration on Children, Youth
and Families, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

THE HONORABLE LEE F. SATTERFIELD, Associate Judge, Superior Court of the
District of Columbia, Former Presiding Judge, D.C. Family Court

WILLIAM C. VICKREY, Member, Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care,
Administrative Director of the Courts, California Administrative Office of
the Courts

CLARICE DIBBLE WALKER, Member, Pew Commission on Children in Foster Care,
Former Commissioner, D.C. Social Services

http://www.usnewswire.com/

-0-

/© 2006 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/

As the result of the Pew Commission report, Congress is currently at work
to remove the strings to Title IV-E funding. The money will become a
capped entitlement to the states, allowing CPS agencies to decide for
themselves how to spend the money. This will cut the foster population by
as much as 80% across the country.


It will defund, which will, of course, dump kids OUT of the foster system,
or close the doors to them when they need protection. The pendulum will
swing again.

The size of the needed workforce will increase to "give" those upfront
services that Wade is so supportive of. More AGENTS of the government will
make attempts at entre' to homes and family.

YOU, and they, are stupid.

The reform legislation, partially because of Dr. Wade's support, will
soon be passed by Congress. This is the reform legislation the
Organization of American Counties and CPS attempted to defeat through a
lobbying campaign about the Meth "epidemic."


Bull****. CPS has little to do with the reporting on meth. The news
services are sending journalist and reporters out to find out for
themselves and they are finding that indeed there IS such an epidemic and
it's have devastating impact on families and children.

You are a propagandist, and it appears you are one for the current
administration on these matters.

Meanwhile, individual states have reduced their foster care poplulation
by applying for and being granted exclusions from Title IV-E funding
restrictions. California, Iowa and other states were just granted Title
IV-E waivers. We can expect the state that harbors close to half of the
nation's foster children to reduce the population of state wards by 50%
over the next three years. Mamouth reductions in foster care populations
have occurred in Illinois, Oregon and other states granted Title IV-E
waivers in the past.

It won't be long, now.


It will be about two to three years before we see the first signs of this
boondoggle.

Watch.

Just as I predicted the upsurge in meth related issues for child
protection and the country I predict that child abuse rates, once we
change administrations, will be correctly reported and they will
skyrocket.

Families will not present themselves for "up front services" and we'll see
more and more clever "agencies" with specially trained, expensive, workers
going out to find ways into homes.

Having done so more abuse will be uncovered than ever before...because our
system and society has resisted intrusion into the family...and that will
break down.

That IS the goal of certain factions now influencing legislation, and they
are poised to do those intrusion under color of law.

They are NOT family friendly...just "family model" friendly, and the
objective is to NOT allow for non-biblical model families to exist.

You will see the gates to hell open on this one, Doug. If they carry it
off. 5 years at the outside before the public discovers they have been
conned by you and your kind.

0:-

And for those that care, another opinion on Wade and his politics and
values, which of course boils down to biases:

http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyt...ry.asp?id=5474







--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)



  #9  
Old June 5th 06, 04:44 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

the more you post, the more you sound like the old drunk joe mccarthy
ranting about a communist under every bed................

]:^ runs around her dog lot barking about abusive
parents................

  #10  
Old June 5th 06, 05:16 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

wrote:
the more you post, the more you sound like the old drunk joe mccarthy
ranting about a communist under every bed................

]:^ runs around her dog lot barking about abusive
parents................


The following is from my mail today, received per my request from Oregon
law enforcement, Sheriff's department of the state's most populous
county. The subject, Meth involvement of children. From a document on
Meth, not on children specifically. Quoting from the printed page:

Stats from The Oregonian; Sunday, April 24, 2005

Children in foster care in Oregon 6,824
Foster homes: 4,800
Foster children with health issues so complex they require medical
foster homes:2,394 (35% of all foster children have these complex
medical issues)
Medical foster homes: 179 (there is of course no way that 179
med.fost.homes can take 13 children a piece)
Medical foster homes needed: 1,197

So of course, CPS hypes the meth epidemic (with collusion by the mental
health profession, the drug treatment centers, the police, and the
media..all lying, of course 0;- ) so as to raise more money for things
like medially fragile compromised children (often from substance abuse
issues) instead of just letting them die, like Greg wishes.

You on that boat, observer?

Sailing soon, are you?

Funny, the cops say, in this same document, that METH IS THE LEADING
CAUSE OF CHILDREN NEEDING FOSTER CARE IN OREGON.

Obviously they are lying to raise fund, right guys?

Oregon Stats -- labs seized by LE
2003: 473
2004: 444

Isn't that nice to see such a significant drop?

In 2005 they halved the labs. Things are really improving.

Opps!

Seems meth USE did not go down. In fact, it went up. How COULD that be.
Well I don't know about Oregon, but MY county sheriff tells me it's
Mexican superlab smuggled meth using the same systems in place that were
laid down for Heroin and Cocaine.

Wouldn't you know, just when we thought we were getting a handle on it
and you guys could crow that my "epidemic" fizzled out. Poor boys.

There's much more that I'd share with you, but obviously you are bored
and have your own "truth" fed to you by Doug and your own simple
fundamentalist bounded brain and thinking patterns.

Heck I wouldn't want to make you boys uncomfortable or anything.

Forget about the kids of the folks doing meth. They don't really matter,
and CPS just picks them up from their poor families to make money off
of. Well, except for the one's hauled in by cops after a drug raid.

I still can't explain to myself how CPS arranged that, but according to
you guys, who I trust implicitly, they must have. After all, they are
just in it for the money.

0:-





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
 




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