If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
Hi,
It seems to me that women are having fewer home births now. I am saddened by this and wonder why this is happening. Homebirth and midwifery were resurected and fought for and protected for about the last 25 years and we seem to be losing ground again. Of course, I don't have studies or anything to base this on.......just observations over the last five years especially. My thought: The big hospital conglomerates are masterful at marketing fear about our bodies and concealing their own inadequacies. Any way I would love to be part of a discussion of this topic. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
wrote in message ps.com... Hi, It seems to me that women are having fewer home births now. I am saddened by this and wonder why this is happening. If there is a problem with during birth, the time it takes to get to the hospital could be deadly. Homebirth and midwifery were resurected and fought for and protected for about the last 25 years and we seem to be losing ground again. Actually, a lot of hospitals have midwives assist in the deliveries. However, I am glad homebirth rates are decreasing. The babies have more trained professionals available in a hospital than at home. That said, inselected low-risk cases, home delivery appears as safe as in-hospital delivery, if emergent transport to a hospital is available. Personally, I think the best care is delivered by midwives in birthing suites in hospitals, where there is good OB coverage and good emergency neonatal care, when needed. Of course, I don't have studies or anything to base this on.......just observations over the last five years especially. My thought: The big hospital conglomerates are masterful at marketing fear about our bodies and concealing their own inadequacies. Big hospital conglomates? THe biggest hospital conglomate controls what percent of the hospitals or hospital beds in US? Any way I would love to be part of a discussion of this topic. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
I considered home birth with all 3 of my children.
I decided on the holspital for all of them. I truly believe a woman knows how to give birth naturally. And the home would be the best place for her to do this without interference. BUT....I also didnt want anything to go wrong. And could not have lived with myself IF my child died because I wanted a home birth. My first child was a 4 hour labor and everything was fine until the end when she had the cord around her neck 3 times and was born not breathing. 4 min to get her breathing and 3 days in neonatel. I also had very bad tares to my anus and needed extensive stitching. Btw I had no pain relief. I made the right decission. Im glad I was at the hospital Even though a midwife could have handled the delivery Im sure...we would have had to go to hospital anyway. As for my second he was 1 1/2hour labor and all perfectly fine. We only had the midwife at the hospital, and it could have been a home birth. But again, I didnt want to take the risk.I was home the next day. no pain relief The third child 40 min labour and was perfectly fine. I was home 4 hours later discharging myself. So even though I think home births are a great idea, I think the hospital system is good where it lets you give birth as you please. I was in control with my last 2 births. I was only in the hospital(just in case) My husband was fully involved with all 3 births, and took control when I couldnt. If I was to fall pregnant again. I would do as my last have the baby at the hospital (just in case) and then go home a few hours later. no pain relief. So to me the point is....as long as the hospitals are supportive of mothers, allow a natural childbirth, (if the mother wishes), and is only on hand to provide medical assistance then Im happy to have the child there. All the best Fiona wrote in message ps.com... Hi, It seems to me that women are having fewer home births now. I am saddened by this and wonder why this is happening. Homebirth and midwifery were resurected and fought for and protected for about the last 25 years and we seem to be losing ground again. Of course, I don't have studies or anything to base this on.......just observations over the last five years especially. My thought: The big hospital conglomerates are masterful at marketing fear about our bodies and concealing their own inadequacies. Any way I would love to be part of a discussion of this topic. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
Jeff wrote:
wrote in message ps.com... Hi, It seems to me that women are having fewer home births now. I am saddened by this and wonder why this is happening. If there is a problem with during birth, the time it takes to get to the hospital could be deadly. And introgenic infections and medical mistakes and such can also be deadly. Statistically, for normal, healthy women with low risk pregnancies (the sort who are eligible for home births), the risk profile of home births is as good as or better than the risk profile for hospital birth. The few studies that show otherwise are horribly methodologically flawed (and there are many methodologically sound studies that show at least equivalent safety for home birth). In addition, countries where home birth is commonplace have historically had *better* birth outcomes than the US, where it is rare. Actually, a lot of hospitals have midwives assist in the deliveries. However, I am glad homebirth rates are decreasing. Actually, as far as I can tell, they're not decreasing. Personally, I think the best care is delivered by midwives in birthing suites in hospitals, where there is good OB coverage and good emergency neonatal care, when needed. It is still not equivalent care to a home birth. While there are many very good midwives working in hospitals (and OBs, for that matter), there are still issues with the hospital model that introduce risks. I think women should have access to whatever birth location they feel most comfortable with, given that there is no credible evidence that one is taking an undue risk choosing a home birth with an appropriately trained attendant, a normal low-risk pregnancy, and adequate backup. Best wishes, Ericka |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
Grahame wrote:
I considered home birth with all 3 of my children. I decided on the holspital for all of them. I truly believe a woman knows how to give birth naturally. And the home would be the best place for her to do this without interference. BUT....I also didnt want anything to go wrong. And could not have lived with myself IF my child died because I wanted a home birth. What if your child died because you chose to be in a hospital (iatrogenic infection, cascading unnecessary interventions, problems related to discontinuity of care or other mistakes that are more likely in hospital)? I feel very strongly that women should go where they feel most comfortable, so I certainly do not challenge your decision to birth in hospital. If that's where you wanted to be, then that's where you should be. I am only poking at your "what if" question. So many people raise that issue with home birth, but it is almost never raised in the other direction, even though deaths due to those causes are *far* more common (due to the fact that there are so many more hospital births--the risks of bad outcomes due to being in the hospital is about the same as the risk of bad outcomes due to being at home and not being able to transport in time to deal with an issue). None of us get to choose a perfectly safe birth. We only get to choose which set of risks we are more comfortable with. It is not surprising to me that more people are comfortable choosing the set of risks associated with hospital birth, but I do wish that more people were aware of those risks (so that they could attempt to mitigate them). Best wishes, Ericka |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
Thats true, Im sure if my child died, I would blame myself anyway, beyond
reason. But to me thats more of an unlikely situation, than complications of childbirth. Fiona "Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message . .. Grahame wrote: I considered home birth with all 3 of my children. I decided on the holspital for all of them. I truly believe a woman knows how to give birth naturally. And the home would be the best place for her to do this without interference. BUT....I also didnt want anything to go wrong. And could not have lived with myself IF my child died because I wanted a home birth. What if your child died because you chose to be in a hospital (iatrogenic infection, cascading unnecessary interventions, problems related to discontinuity of care or other mistakes that are more likely in hospital)? I feel very strongly that women should go where they feel most comfortable, so I certainly do not challenge your decision to birth in hospital. If that's where you wanted to be, then that's where you should be. I am only poking at your "what if" question. So many people raise that issue with home birth, but it is almost never raised in the other direction, even though deaths due to those causes are *far* more common (due to the fact that there are so many more hospital births--the risks of bad outcomes due to being in the hospital is about the same as the risk of bad outcomes due to being at home and not being able to transport in time to deal with an issue). None of us get to choose a perfectly safe birth. We only get to choose which set of risks we are more comfortable with. It is not surprising to me that more people are comfortable choosing the set of risks associated with hospital birth, but I do wish that more people were aware of those risks (so that they could attempt to mitigate them). Best wishes, Ericka |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Dead babies and 'medical mistakes' (also: 'Baby ER')
DEAD BABIES AND "MEDICAL MISTAKES" (also: "BABY ER") Babies are actually being VACUUMED to death - made to bleed to death into their scalps - thousands per year (please check my math someone?) - with MD-obstetricians senselessly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% as they literally vacuum/rip/separate baby scalps from baby skulls... See Dr. Hull made SOME changes I recommended, but he still 'forgets' those hematomas ABOVE the periosteum... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...f53c2204fce76e The birth-canal-closing crime is happening routinely at a hospital near you - and in some home births. Please report the crime. I'm cc'ing Oregon Atty Genl Hardy Myers via . Eventually law enforcement will stop looking the other way, as in the arrogant boast of Steve B. Harris, MD: "Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime. These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....866f3384801ae9 Further comment below ##### Kathy Berry wrote Hi, It seems to me that women are having fewer home births now. I am saddened by this and wonder why this is happening. Jeff (P. Utz, MD?) replied: If there is a problem with during birth, the time it takes to get to the hospital could be deadly. Ericka replied: And introgenic infections and medical mistakes and such can also be deadly. #### Ericka is, in effect, indicating here that MD-obstetricians intentionally closing birth canals up to 30% is a "medical mistake." #### Babies are DYING - MDs are LYING - and online childbirth educator Ericka is euphemizing - "medical mistakes and such"... Statistically, for normal, healthy women with low risk pregnancies (the sort who are eligible for home births), the risk profile of home births is as good as or better than the risk profile for hospital birth. #### Regarding the risk profile for hospital birth, let's not forget... "Many hospitals market their luxurious birth suites...neglecting to mention that they have little to offer the one out of ten babies who ends up needing an NICU. Those children will have to waste precious minutes or hours being transported [to a tertiary care facility] by ambulance...bumping through traffic instead of receiving lifesaving care right where they were born...[M]any small patients arrive...[in tertiary care facility NICUs]...via ambulance from other hospitals...their parents pale and terrified in the car behind them, unable to comprehend...why they made the mistake of starting out at the wrong hospital in the first place..." [Humes E. Baby ER: The Heroic Doctors and Nurses Who Perform Medicine's Tiniest Miracles. NY: Simon & Schuster. 2000:12-13] See also: Baby ER (Also: Homebirth midwife at a hospital birth) http://groups.google.com/group/misc....425ecc4857967b The few studies that show otherwise are horribly methodologically flawed (and there are many methodologically sound studies that show at least equivalent safety for home birth). #### MD-obstetrician experts have been/still are LYING to cover-up the massive birth-canal-closing crime of MD-obstetricians. #### Birth position studies have also been horribly methodologically flawed - a form of "scientific" lying. In addition, countries where home birth is commonplace have historically had *better* birth outcomes than the US, where it is rare. #### The Western MD-obstetrician birth-canal-closing birth crime is spreading right along with use of the chair. See Toilet Training for Thai Army Recruits in: sMEG during squatting? (also: Asian Pacific Americans) http://groups.google.com/group/misc....044441c7aca66e Actually, a lot of hospitals have midwives assist in the deliveries. However, I am glad homebirth rates are decreasing. Actually, as far as I can tell, they're not decreasing. Personally, I think the best care is delivered by midwives in birthing suites in hospitals, where there is good OB coverage and good emergency neonatal care, when needed. It is still not equivalent care to a home birth. #### Home is mom's turf. Hospital is MD turf. #### When the homebirth midwife apes the MD in the home - she is robbing mom (and her baby) right in her home. While there are many very good midwives working in hospitals (and OBs, for that matter), there are still issues with the hospital model that introduce risks. #### "Good" midwives and "good" OBs - and "good" online childbirth educators for that matter - do not dismiss obvious, sometimes fatal, birth crimes as "medical mistakes and such." #### To be sure, they are all doing much good - but by ignoring/dismissing the bad - the crime - they do society a grave disservice. I think women should have access to whatever birth location they feel most comfortable with, given that there is no credible evidence that one is taking an undue risk choosing a home birth with an appropriately trained attendant, a normal low-risk pregnancy, and adequate backup. Best wishes, Ericka http://groups.google.com/group/misc....afb7dcf84fa6e3 #### Ericka and I are in substantial agreement - except that Ericka does not call obvious MD crime obvious MD crime. #### How serious is the obvious MD crime? #### Again, babies are actually being VACUUMED to death - made to bleed to death into their scalps - thousands per year (please check my math someone?) - with MD-obstetricians senselessly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% as they literally vacuum/rip/separate baby scalps from baby skulls... See Dr. Hull made SOME changes I recommended, but he still 'forgets' those hematomas ABOVE the periosteum... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...f53c2204fce76e ### Obviously, not all baby deaths can be prevented - it's just that it's criminal to close the birth canal the "extra" up to 30%... KEEPING the birth canal closed the "extra" up to 30% as one pulls with a vacuum just makes the MD crime worse. ### The fact that MD-obstetrician experts are LYING to cover-up will make prosecution easy - once law enforcement takes action... #### For the Four OB Lies (they are whoppers)... See Dents in babies' skulls" http://groups.google.com/group/ misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/08abfc7ff242150e Alternate URL: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3897 LADIES: To allow your birth canal to OPEN the "extra" up to 30%, just stay off your sacrum as you push your baby out. Many women like side-lying delivery. Kneeling against the raised head of the bed works. So does standing. So does hands-and-knees. Virtually EVERY delivery position allows the birth canal to open maximally - except dorsal and semisitting - the two most commonly used by obstetricians. Thanks for reading. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA PS Further comment - for Ericka... Ericka, you have been covering for childbirth educator Henci Goer who is failing to inform women that MD-obstetricians routinely KEEP birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck. See Good one Ericka! (Ericka's sordid Henci Goer joke - again) http://groups.google.com/group/misc....2db7f19d5db306 Similarly, Larry McMahan has been online pretending that it's not crime when MDs keep birth canals closed when babies get stuck - with MD-obstetrician experts LYING (see above) to cover-up. Remember? Larry says that the birth-canal-closing STANDARD care of MD-obstetricians is mere "substandard care." #### See again: Good one Ericka! (Ericka's sordid Henci Goer joke - again) http://groups.google.com/group/misc....2db7f19d5db306 Larry is WRONG. [Crime is occurring.] Women shouldn't have to ask their MD-obstetricians (or midwives) for the "extra" up to 30%. Most women don't KNOW to ask. Which is why everyone should be calling the "medical mistakes" what they are - CRIMES. Everyone should also be emailing LAW ENFORCEMENT. REMEMBER: MDs are depending on law enforcement looking the other way. As noted above, Steve B. Harris, MD arrogantly boasts: "Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime. These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....866f3384801ae9 What - really - is the difference between the MD making his arrogant boast and Ericka Kammerer euphemizing the obvious crimes by calling them "medical mistakes and such"? I SAY AGAIN... Babies are actually being VACUUMED to death - made to bleed to death into their scalps - thousands per year (please check my math someone?) - with MD-obstetricians senselessly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% as they literally vacuum/rip/separate baby scalps from baby skulls... See Dr. Hull made SOME changes I recommended, but he still 'forgets' those hematomas ABOVE the periosteum... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...f53c2204fce76e The birth-canal-closing crime is happening ROUTINELY at a hospital near you - and in some home births. Please report the crime. I'm cc'ing Oregon Atty Genl Hardy Myers via . Eventually law enforcement will stop looking the other way. Thanks. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA This post will be archived for global access in the Google usenet archive. Search http://groups.google.com for "Dead babies and 'medical mistakes' (also: 'Baby ER')" |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Babies dying/MDs lying - and Ericka's sordid joke
Pregnant? To allow your birth canal to open an "extra" up to 30%, see
LADIES at the very end of this post. BABIES DYING/MDs LYING ....AND ERICKA'S SORDID JOKE... Ericka Kammerer is whining about people not being informed (see below) - even as she supports prominent childbirth educator Henci Goer in failing to inform women that MD-obstetricians are keeping birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck - as they pull with vacuums. Babies are actually being vacuumed to DEATH - made to bleed to death into their scalps - thousands per year (please check my math someone?) - with MD-obstetricians senselessly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% as they literally vacuum/rip/separate baby scalps from baby skulls... See Dr. Hull made SOME changes I recommended, but he still 'forgets' those hematomas ABOVE the periosteum... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...f53c2204fce76e This crime should be REPORTED not ignored... Yes, Ericka puts out a lot of good information - but she is engaging in a grave act of omission. Women shouldn't have to ask for the "extra" up to 30%. Most women don't know to ask. Law enforcement needs to address this obvious crime. Fiona/Grahame wrote: I considered home birth with all 3 of my children. I decided on the holspital for all of them. I truly believe a woman knows how to give birth naturally. And the home would be the best place for her to do this without interference. BUT....I also didnt want anything to go wrong. And could not have lived with myself IF my child died because I wanted a home birth. Ericka Kammerer replied: What if your child died because you chose to be in a hospital (iatrogenic infection, cascading unnecessary interventions, problems related to discontinuity of care or other mistakes that are more likely in hospital)? #### With MD-obstetricians closing birth canals up to 30% and KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck... #### With MD-obstetricians failing to obtain informed consent - with MD-obstetrician experts LYING to cover-up... #### Women are - in effect - "choosing" MD-obstetrician CRIMES for themselves and their babies. I feel very strongly that women should go where they feel most comfortable, so I certainly do not challenge your decision to birth in hospital. #### I, too, believe women should birth where they feel most comfortable. #### But powerful cultural authorities - MD-obstetricians have called homebirth "child abuse" - a crime. #### This abuse of cultural authority has helped women "choose" hospital birth. If that's where you wanted to be, then that's where you should be. I am only poking at your "what if" question. #### Ericka is rather TIMIDLY poking. Babies are DYING and MDs are LYING. So many people raise that issue with home birth, but it is almost never raised in the other direction, even though deaths due to those causes are *far* more common (due to the fact that there are so many more hospital births--the risks of bad outcomes due to being in the hospital is about the same as the risk of bad outcomes due to being at home and not being able to transport in time to deal with an issue). #### The transport issue should indeed be raised "in the other direction"... "Many hospitals market their luxurious birth suites...neglecting to mention that they have little to offer the one out of ten babies who ends up needing an NICU. Those children will have to waste precious minutes or hours being transported [to a tertiary care facility] by ambulance...bumping through traffic instead of receiving lifesaving care right where they were born...[M]any small patients arrive...[in tertiary care facility NICUs]...via ambulance from other hospitals...their parents pale and terrified in the car behind them, unable to comprehend...why they made the mistake of starting out at the wrong hospital in the first place..." [Humes E. Baby ER: The Heroic Doctors and Nurses Who Perform Medicine's Tiniest Miracles. NY: Simon & Schuster. 2000:12-13] See also: Baby ER (Also: Homebirth midwife at a hospital birth) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...fbc37fe969e6c0 None of us get to choose a perfectly safe birth. We only get to choose which set of risks we are more comfortable with. #### But the set of risks for hospital births is reduced - even by prominent childbirth educators like Henci Goer - with Ericka Kammerer's support. See Good one Ericka! (Ericka's sordid Henci Goer joke - again) http://groups.google.com/group/misc....2db7f19d5db306 It is not surprising to me that more people are comfortable choosing the set of risks associated with hospital birth, #### But they aren't "choosing." MD crimes are being IMPOSED upon them without their consent. but I do wish that more people were aware of those risks (so that they could attempt to mitigate them). #### This is MY point. Why are prominent childbirth educators failing to tell women that if their babies get stuck, their birth canals will be KEPT closed the "extra" up to 30%? #### Why is Ericka Kammerer supporting Henci Goer in this childbirth education fraud - even as she whines about wishing that more people were aware of risks? See again: Good one Ericka! (Ericka's sordid Henci Goer joke - again) http://groups.google.com/group/misc....2db7f19d5db306 #### Why do I care? #### As I recently noted in this thread...and already said above: Babies are actually being VACUUMED to death - made to bleed to death into their scalps - thousands per year (please check my math someone?) - with MD-obstetricians senselessly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% as they literally vacuum/rip/separate baby scalps from baby skulls... See Dr. Hull made SOME changes I recommended, but he still 'forgets' those hematomas ABOVE the periosteum... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...f53c2204fce76e The birth-canal-closing crime is happening routinely at a hospital near you - and in some home births. Please report the crime. I'm cc'ing Oregon Atty Genl Hardy Myers via . Eventually law enforcement will stop looking the other way, as in the arrogant boast of Steve B. Harris, MD: "Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime. These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....866f3384801ae9 Adults: Please report the crime - and start asking why prominent childbirth educators like Henci Goer aren't mentioning it. Ericka's "joke" is a sordid joke. (see Good one, Ericka!, URL above). Thanks for reading. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA PS Obviously, not all baby deaths can be prevented - it's just that it's criminal to close the birth canal the "extra" up to 30%... KEEPING the birth canal closed the "extra" up to 30% as one pulls with a vacuum just makes the MD crime worse. The fact that MD-obstetrician experts are LYING to cover-up will make prosecution easy - once law enforcement takes action... For the Four OB Lies (they are whoppers)... See Dents in babies' skulls" http://groups.google.com/group/ misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/08abfc7ff242150e Alternate URL: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3897 I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to commit obvious felonies. LADIES: To allow your birth canal to OPEN the "extra" up to 30%, just stay off your sacrum as you push your baby out. Many women like side-lying delivery. Kneeling against the raised head of the bed works. So does standing. So does hands-and-knees. Virtually EVERY delivery position allows the birth canal to open maximally - except dorsal and semisitting - the two most commonly used by obstetricians. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
home birth
Personally, I think the best care is delivered by midwives in birthing
suites in hospitals, where there is good OB coverage and good emergency neonatal care, when needed. I'm not convinced, as soon as you have a group of midwives practicing together, they start to lose their professional autonomy, because you don't know who will be there on the day, it suddenly becomes less important that you see the same person each antenatal visit and so on, I don't doubt that you can get very good care from midwives in birthing centre, but I'm far from convinced that for the low risk women it's going to amount to being better. You start to find that midwives are doing VEs because it's policy to do one on admission, not because doing that VE is going to tell them some useful information which could potentially change the course of action and so on.... suddenly women are on a conveyor belt and a midwife becomes little more than an obstetric nurse. I'm also not clear on whether you are talking about a midwife led unit with fast access to obstetric and neonatal care, or a consultant led unit, with the main care provided by midwives, the two are very different, to the extent that in some places they exist within the same building and the outcomes for low risk women starting in the former are better than starting in the latter. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
'Not the coccyx' - and 'Todd's not British' | [email protected] | Pregnancy | 21 | November 15th 06 10:19 AM |
We don need no steenkin' CPS. | 0:-> | Spanking | 223 | July 19th 06 07:32 AM |
would you go to this? | Anne Rogers | Pregnancy | 19 | February 28th 06 09:40 AM |
Depressed (also: Jan Tritten/Midwifery Today) | Todd Gastaldo | Pregnancy | 7 | December 16th 04 02:26 AM |
ICAN and The Pink Kit: a dark side (Wintergreen is wrong) | Todd Gastaldo | Pregnancy | 0 | January 30th 04 09:45 PM |